LOST...Season 6

[ajzepp]

I can't wait for tonight's episode either! I'm really hoping this one is a bit less controversial than the last lol

[UConn James]

I can't wait for tonight's episode either! I'm really hoping this one is a bit less controversial than the last lol

 

I'm hearing that this is a great episode for Ben.

[ajzepp]

I'm hearing that this is a great episode for Ben.

 

That would be awesome....he's one of the most interesting characters on the show...and also one of the best actors.

[duey]

What an amazing episode.

[UConn James]

There are just so many turns in this show.

 

So, Ben finally got his revenge on Charles Widmore, who claimed to be on a mission from Jacob shortly after the freighter blast (when Ben was busy teleporting to 2005). He was to use Des as a "fail-safe" to presumably shut off or move the "light" so that MIB wouldn't have access to it.

 

We learned that Kate's name was crossed off the cave wall b/c she was a mother. I don't quite get why that would disqualify someone, but Jacob appears to have gotten the EOE notice and offered Kate the chance to be the Island's protector. (Does that mean that Claire would still be considered a candidate, as 'Littleton' was crossed off?) But, since no one else was in a volunteering mood, Jack stood up, as ever, and chose to be the leader. Was there ever any doubt? Seemed like he was Jacob's man all along, and there was a certain twinge of happiness that Jack did chose in a moment of his own free will (tho, I'd say more accurately there was a decided Compatibilist flavor to the choice). And yet, Jack doesn't know quite what he's got himself into: "How long am I going to have to do this job?" And so the game is on --- Flocke has kill the candidates and probably everyone else, and Jack et al. are going to try to find a way to kill Flocke. I just wonder... if something happens to Jack, are the others still candidates?

 

As we saw last week, Jacob said that his actions created the Smoke Monster. He bashed his brother's head against the light canal's rock which killed MIB's human body / separated MIB from his corporeal form. Seeing as Mother made it so they could "never hurt/kill each other" the universe found a way around this and made him into the ancient black column (stemming from the Egyptian hieroglyphics from earlier than the 23 A.D. date we learned of last week, the smoke monster had been around for a while, tho not as MIB, but that gets into a touchy subject of last week where people wanted to see every layer of turtles there is, to borrow the metaphor from an above post....). Jacob chose them "because you were flawed" and their off-island lives were a mess, they were lost.... And so, Jacob found these characters, and gave them purpose.

 

A continuation of everything Ben would like to be on-island played out in the sideways world. More Napoleon comparisons, concern for the kids and the school environment, and... an unlikely budding romance b/w Ben and Danielle? Ben gets weepy when he learns that Alex thinks of him as a father figure. Rousseau: "I'll use less onion next time." Ben: (Next time? Wait.... I'm a PhD. I should know what this means....). Nice to see Ben set up for a happy end in the sideways, where he hasn't been corrupted by the Temple pool. Ben is probably my favorite character b/c Michael Emerson plays him so well, and you just never know what to expect from him.

 

Everything seems to be depending on the sideways world, where Desmond is the Danny Ocean to Hurley's... Brad Pitt (Wait, what?). All building toward a serious crashing of Daniel Faraday's concert. You know, I'm just getting giddy at how things are shaping up here. I think they can do this and it can all end happily ever after. Or the last 2.5 hours could run the gamut and screw everything up.

 

Edit / Add-on:

Richard is railroaded and thrown through the jungle after he tries to be a diplomat of sorts, and thinks he's important to the FLocke's plan. Is he dead? Probably not. Jacob gave him the gift of eternal life and that seems to be lasting even after Jacob's death. Gets you to wondering.... What is Richard's place in the sideways world? If he's still on the island, he's dead unless he's a very good swimmer or he died naturally (or unnaturally, if he still killed the doctor) in the 1800s. But I suppose that is what needs to happen for Richard, to find forgiveness for his sin and be with Isabella in the hereafter. I expect this will be one of the sad touches of the finale.

 

Speaking of diplomacy, there's Jack trying to provide some consolation for Sawyer, who is just numb as he figures that his actions killed Sun and Jin. After so many of their pissing matches of who was right or wrong after this or that course of action/leadership 'n' stuff, Jack was the bigger man this time.

 

If Jack, et al. got detoured at Jacob's campfire, Locke found the well empty, and Widmore seemed a little dumbfounded before he got plugged, Desmond escaped from the well... how?

[Doc]

I'm thinking Des is actually Jacob's brother, not MIB/FLocke.

[ajzepp]

Bad news....that episode did very little to change how I feel about last week's episode.

 

Good news....this episode fuggin ROCKED. I was just ingesting every single detail, every word of every conversation, etc...very well written, VERY well acted, and a very satisfying set-up for the finale. I can't wait!!

[UConn James]

OK, to backtrack a second (but, it's still relevant to this ep):

 

From Doc's Totally Lost video, he chats with Marc Pelligrino and Titus Welliver (I'm transcribing it here):

 

Q: What happened in that instant [that Jacob drinks from the cup]? Did you become all-knowing or did you receive power?

 

MP: There's a line that I'm going to butcher in my paraphrasing, in "Long Day's Journey Into Night" where one of the characters talks about being on a ship ... and sitting in the bow and suddenly the curtain is raised on creation and for a moment, for an instant, you see it all. You just know the answers. It's an epiphany. And then, unfortunately for Eugene O'Neill, the curtain slams shut again after a moment and it's done. But I think for Jacob, it's an epiphany that lasts. And I think is probably part of what --- along with his innocence ---contributes to his benign point of view towards man and towards his eventual wisdom. He goes from a hot-headed kid, in a way, to something very stable and wise and still. I like how they write these characters. You see how they were in history and then you go back and they're not anything like they were up to this point.

[duey]

OK, to backtrack a second (but, it's still relevant to this ep):

 

From Doc's Totally Lost video, he chats with Marc Pelligrino and Titus Welliver (I'm transcribing it here):

That was a great video, btw.

 

You saw that moment of epiphany on Jacks face after the drank from the cup...it was fleeting, but you could see that, for a few seconds, he saw something or realized something awesome.

[Lockport Bills]

Just a reminder, they are playing an enhanced version of the Pilot this Saturday from 8-10.

[The Jokeman]

I have to make this brief as almost out the door but will post more yet on my commute to work yesterday a song came on my Ipod that I happened to d/l a few months back. Ironically enough I d/led two versions and they played back to back but the lyrics hit me like a punch in the face in the second version.

 

Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket

Never let it fade away

Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket

Save it for a rainy day

 

In terms of last night episode. The concert, UConn brings up it was going to be performed by Faraday, in my head it was going to be Daniel er Jack's son performing. Did Hurley mention Ana Lucia by name when he first saw her? Is it possible if in sideworld Jack fixes Locke that Flocke will be broken (ie lose his ability to walk see comments on why he walks)? I'll be back for more.

[DrFishfinder]

There are just so many turns in this show.

 

So, Ben finally got his revenge on Charles Widmore, who claimed to be on a mission from Jacob shortly after the freighter blast (when Ben was busy teleporting to 2005). He was to use Des as a "fail-safe" to presumably shut off or move the "light" so that MIB wouldn't have access to it.

 

We learned that Kate's name was crossed off the cave wall b/c she was a mother. I don't quite get why that would disqualify someone, but Jacob appears to have gotten the EOE notice and offered Kate the chance to be the Island's protector. (Does that mean that Claire would still be considered a candidate, as 'Littleton' was crossed off?) But, since no one else was in a volunteering mood, Jack stood up, as ever, and chose to be the leader. Was there ever any doubt? Seemed like he was Jacob's man all along, and there was a certain twinge of happiness that Jack did chose in a moment of his own free will (tho, I'd say more accurately there was a decided Compatibilist flavor to the choice). And yet, Jack doesn't know quite what he's got himself into: "How long am I going to have to do this job?" And so the game is on --- Flocke has kill the candidates and probably everyone else, and Jack et al. are going to try to find a way to kill Flocke. I just wonder... if something happens to Jack, are the others still candidates?

 

As we saw last week, Jacob said that his actions created the Smoke Monster. He bashed his brother's head against the light canal's rock which killed MIB's human body / separated MIB from his corporeal form. Seeing as Mother made it so they could "never hurt/kill each other" the universe found a way around this and made him into the ancient black column (stemming from the Egyptian hieroglyphics from earlier than the 23 A.D. date we learned of last week, the smoke monster had been around for a while, tho not as MIB, but that gets into a touchy subject of last week where people wanted to see every layer of turtles there is, to borrow the metaphor from an above post....). Jacob chose them "because you were flawed" and their off-island lives were a mess, they were lost.... And so, Jacob found these characters, and gave them purpose.

 

A continuation of everything Ben would like to be on-island played out in the sideways world. More Napoleon comparisons, concern for the kids and the school environment, and... an unlikely budding romance b/w Ben and Danielle? Ben gets weepy when he learns that Alex thinks of him as a father figure. Rousseau: "I'll use less onion next time." Ben: (Next time? Wait.... I'm a PhD. I should know what this means....). Nice to see Ben set up for a happy end in the sideways, where he hasn't been corrupted by the Temple pool. Ben is probably my favorite character b/c Michael Emerson plays him so well, and you just never know what to expect from him.

 

Everything seems to be depending on the sideways world, where Desmond is the Danny Ocean to Hurley's... Brad Pitt (Wait, what?). All building toward a serious crashing of Daniel Faraday's concert. You know, I'm just getting giddy at how things are shaping up here. I think they can do this and it can all end happily ever after. Or the last 2.5 hours could run the gamut and screw everything up.

 

Edit / Add-on:

Richard is railroaded and thrown through the jungle after he tries to be a diplomat of sorts, and thinks he's important to the FLocke's plan. Is he dead? Probably not. Jacob gave him the gift of eternal life and that seems to be lasting even after Jacob's death. Gets you to wondering.... What is Richard's place in the sideways world? If he's still on the island, he's dead unless he's a very good swimmer or he died naturally (or unnaturally, if he still killed the doctor) in the 1800s. But I suppose that is what needs to happen for Richard, to find forgiveness for his sin and be with Isabella in the hereafter. I expect this will be one of the sad touches of the finale.

 

Speaking of diplomacy, there's Jack trying to provide some consolation for Sawyer, who is just numb as he figures that his actions killed Sun and Jin. After so many of their pissing matches of who was right or wrong after this or that course of action/leadership 'n' stuff, Jack was the bigger man this time.

 

If Jack, et al. got detoured at Jacob's campfire, Locke found the well empty, and Widmore seemed a little dumbfounded before he got plugged, Desmond escaped from the well... how?

I get the sneaking suspicion that Jack volunteering for the caretaker position and receiving Reverend Jacob's communion is just a little too neat and tidy for the way this show tends to run. The fact that Jacob inferred that a name being crossed out on the cave is just some chalk on a wall, opens the door to a lot of other possibilities. So I wouldn't bet the mortgage payment just yet, that Jack is a done deal.

 

I'm also unsure of why MIB's returning to the log flume of light would nuke the island, as well as how Jacob has prevented that from happening, given MIB's amorphous abilities. It seems that MIB/FLocke's newest evil plan is to take one last ride into the log flume of light and blow the island to smithereens (a great band, btw). That sort of implies that Flocke has given up on trying to make it off the island and has instead, decided to become a suicide island bomber.

 

Or has he?

[UConn James]

I get the sneaking suspicion that Jack volunteering for the caretaker position and receiving Reverend Jacob's communion is just a little too neat and tidy for the way this show tends to run. The fact that Jacob inferred that a name being crossed out on the cave is just some chalk on a wall, opens the door to a lot of other possibilities. So I wouldn't bet the mortgage payment just yet, that Jack is a done deal.

 

I'm also unsure of why MIB's returning to the log flume of light would nuke the island, as well as how Jacob has prevented that from happening, given MIB's amorphous abilities. It seems that MIB/FLocke's newest evil plan is to take one last ride into the log flume of light and blow the island to smithereens (a great band, btw). That sort of implies that Flocke has given up on trying to make it off the island and has instead, decided to become a suicide island bomber.

 

Or has he?

 

Re: the Light Canal, it's almost like only the island's Protector can bring other people, including candidates, there. As MIB said, he'd been searching for it for 30 years --- and in his Smoke form, he can probably cross the entire island in a few minutes. Jacob tells Jack that the light isn't very far from the banyan trees he woke up in post-crash. So, it's right near the crash site. Jack says there's nothing out there. Perhaps this place is more a state of mind than an actual location... maybe a kind of blindness to the spot is included in the "gift" given to the candidates, or maybe, it's just really, really, really well-hidden.

 

Thinking about the Sideways world.... So, the island is deep underwater (and yes, I was wrong upthread in the LA X discussion, it is deeply covered). We've been shown the outcome of the war already and the result seems positive for our castaways (Maybe. Can the "light" exist sunken in the ocean? It seems to exist sunken in the canal...). The Sideways flashes just seem to be Desmond's attempts to reconcile the consciousnesses of the 'special' 815 passengers, so their memories of what happened on-island won't be lost. But I propose an ethical question that Eloise Hawking was on the other side of --- namely, should Desmond be doing this? Should he just let the flashes be revealed naturally and not screw up whatever progress/happiness these people have experienced in the sideways world? Should we even be calling it the "sideways world" anymore? Because it looks like it's going to take over as the main timeline. The on-island, '74-'77 and the timeflash experiences will be spliced and removed, kind of like how segments of the Swan hatch film were.

 

Speaking of the timeflash experiences, we saw the outrigger that Widmore and Zoe arrived to the main island in. Case closed with that telltale big silver box in the middle, that was the source of the gunshots at time-flashing Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Dan and Charlotte. Evidently, the Widmore group was trying to get a shot off on Locke pre-MIB-incarnate... but, actually, it would seem they didn't know it was a timeflash, b/c Widmore knows full well that you can't change what happened already, because it always happened that way. Lindelof and Cuse said that there wasn't going to be an exposition of the outrigger shootout b/c the logistics of it would be difficult to do and we've seen the most important part of what happens anyway. But, now we know that it was Widmore. Chalk one up in the Answered column.

 

Re: FLocke's plan to "destroy the island" by self-sacrifice.... No way. Now that he knows Des is still alive (and from Widmore seeking to save Penny in that whole Hannibal Lecter-like deal to the trussed-up Italian detective ("I'm seriously considering having your wife for dinner...."), that Des is immune to electromagnetic energy situations, FLocke is going to find Des and send him down the Light Canal to... something. Turn off the light somehow? Destroy it? And that effectively destroys the island's mystical powers, but probably not the physical island itself. MIB has no intention of dying / suicide. He wants to get across the sea.

[duey]

Did Hurley mention Ana Lucia by name when he first saw her?

 

Yes...yes he did. When he approached the back of the police van and saw her, he said "Ana Lucia?" And then asked Des if she was coming too, to which Des replied, "No...she's not ready yet." It's clear to me that both Des and Hugo have a complete recollection of their island memories.

 

Let's talk about Des. Clearly he is going to play a major role in the final episode. I'm starting to wonder if Des isn't something of an immortal himself. Does anyone remember from his back story how old he was when we first saw him? Wasn't it just before he went into the monestary? If so, I wonder if he may originally be from the island just as MIB and Jacob are. Perhaps he has been reliving his adult life over and over (see Stephen King's Dark Tower, which I've referred to here previously), with as Jacob said, each time making progress but not quite achieving his goal (of killing MIB). He is immune to the effects of the electromagnetic field, doesn't seem to be able to be killed (he was blown clear of the hatch when it exploded and suffered barely a scratch after having been thrown down the well). MIB can't kill him for some reason...putting him at least on the same level as the candidates. I think Des is the biggest threat to MIB and it seems that MIB may just now be realizing that.

 

And for what it's worth...I think Richard pulled Des out of the well after he was thrown into the jungle by smoky.

[MattyT]

Everything seems to be depending on the sideways world, where Desmond is the Danny Ocean to Hurley's... Brad Pitt (Wait, what?).

[UConn James]

Yes...yes he did. When he approached the back of the police van and saw her, he said "Ana Lucia?" And then asked Des if she was coming too, to which Des replied, "No...she's not ready yet." It's clear to me that both Des and Hugo have a complete recollection of their island memories.

 

Let's talk about Des. Clearly he is going to play a major role in the final episode. I'm starting to wonder if Des isn't something of an immortal himself. Does anyone remember from his back story how old he was when we first saw him? Wasn't it just before he went into the monestary? If so, I wonder if he may originally be from the island just as MIB and Jacob are. Perhaps he has been reliving his adult life over and over (see Stephen King's Dark Tower, which I've referred to here previously), with as Jacob said, each time making progress but not quite achieving his goal (of killing MIB). He is immune to the effects of the electromagnetic field, doesn't seem to be able to be killed (he was blown clear of the hatch when it exploded and suffered barely a scratch after having been thrown down the well). MIB can't kill him for some reason...putting him at least on the same level as the candidates. I think Des is the biggest threat to MIB and it seems that MIB may just now be realizing that.

 

And for what it's worth...I think Richard pulled Des out of the well after he was thrown into the jungle by smoky.

 

Desmond isn't immortal. He was shot by Ben and iirc, by Penny's reaction in the hospital, it was touch-and-go... so to speak. I think it's just another case of "The island isn't done with you yet." You're correct about MIB not being able to kill him, but it's clear that other of the candidates can, which is why FLocke tried to order Sayid to do the deed.

 

It will be something to see what the Light does to him, if that is what Des is meant to do. As I said last week, the last two electromagnetic events... he's not "immune" to EM energy. He survives it. But there are consequences to such exposure. Consequences of the space-time-travel sort. What was the sacrifice that Widmore was talking about? Can the Light actually do some harm to Desmond, and yet, it won't matter b/c of the consciousness transfer to the Sideways world?

[DrFishfinder]

Re: the Light Canal, it's almost like only the island's Protector can bring other people, including candidates, there. As MIB said, he'd been searching for it for 30 years --- and in his Smoke form, he can probably cross the entire island in a few minutes. Jacob tells Jack that the light isn't very far from the banyan trees he woke up in post-crash. So, it's right near the crash site. Jack says there's nothing out there. Perhaps this place is more a state of mind than an actual location... maybe a kind of blindness to the spot is included in the "gift" given to the candidates, or maybe, it's just really, really, really well-hidden.

 

Thinking about the Sideways world.... So, the island is deep underwater (and yes, I was wrong upthread in the LA X discussion, it is deeply covered). We've been shown the outcome of the war already and the result seems positive for our castaways (Maybe. Can the "light" exist sunken in the ocean? It seems to exist sunken in the canal...). The Sideways flashes just seem to be Desmond's attempts to reconcile the consciousnesses of the 'special' 815 passengers, so their memories of what happened on-island won't be lost. But I propose an ethical question that Eloise Hawking was on the other side of --- namely, should Desmond be doing this? Should he just let the flashes be revealed naturally and not screw up whatever progress/happiness these people have experienced in the sideways world? Should we even be calling it the "sideways world" anymore? Because it looks like it's going to take over as the main timeline. The on-island, '74-'77 and the timeflash experiences will be spliced and removed, kind of like how segments of the Swan hatch film were.

 

Speaking of the timeflash experiences, we saw the outrigger that Widmore and Zoe arrived to the main island in. Case closed with that telltale big silver box in the middle, that was the source of the gunshots at time-flashing Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Dan and Charlotte. Evidently, the Widmore group was trying to get a shot off on Locke pre-MIB-incarnate... but, actually, it would seem they didn't know it was a timeflash, b/c Widmore knows full well that you can't change what happened already, because it always happened that way. Lindelof and Cuse said that there wasn't going to be an exposition of the outrigger shootout b/c the logistics of it would be difficult to do and we've seen the most important part of what happens anyway. But, now we know that it was Widmore. Chalk one up in the Answered column.

 

Re: FLocke's plan to "destroy the island" by self-sacrifice.... No way. Now that he knows Des is still alive (and from Widmore seeking to save Penny in that whole Hannibal Lecter-like deal to the trussed-up Italian detective ("I'm seriously considering having your wife for dinner...."), that Des is immune to electromagnetic energy situations, FLocke is going to find Des and send him down the Light Canal to... something. Turn off the light somehow? Destroy it? And that effectively destroys the island's mystical powers, but probably not the physical island itself. MIB has no intention of dying / suicide. He wants to get across the sea.

What if the internal light is the actual power source (for lack of a better term) of the island? If the light is extinguished, the island physically disappears and MIB/Flocke is a thing without a jail? Instead of figuring out a way to break out of jail, figure out a way to remove the jail.

[UConn James]

I'm wondering if, somehow, MIB will be transferred to the Sideways world --- get his wish to be across the sea --- only to be trapped in the body of... Anthony Cooper. That's a whole "Welcome to the real world where you're not immortal, you murdering bastard" theme that has a hint of poetic justice.

 

Remember that AC was still a con man that brought about Sawyer James Ford's parents' deaths. As much as his relationship with Locke was improved in the Sideways, yeh rah rah, he still has to answer for that.

[duey]

What if the internal light is the actual power source (for lack of a better term) of the island? If the light is extinguished, the island physically disappears and MIB/Flocke is a thing without a jail? Instead of figuring out a way to break out of jail, figure out a way to remove the jail.

I think you're right...that destroying the island would release MIB.

 

Does the light being extinguished mean that the good in all men is extinguished as well? I think that's the big implication here. MIB getting off the island while the island is intact is bad because he's a mean and dangerous evil entity, but the island being destroyed has even more terrible consequences.

[duey]

Desmond isn't immortal. He was shot by Ben and iirc, by Penny's reaction in the hospital, it was touch-and-go... so to speak. I think it's just another case of "The island isn't done with you yet." You're correct about MIB not being able to kill him, but it's clear that other of the candidates can, which is why FLocke tried to order Sayid to do the deed.

 

It will be something to see what the Light does to him, if that is what Des is meant to do. As I said last week, the last two electromagnetic events... he's not "immune" to EM energy. He survives it. But there are consequences to such exposure. Consequences of the space-time-travel sort. What was the sacrifice that Widmore was talking about? Can the Light actually do some harm to Desmond, and yet, it won't matter b/c of the consciousness transfer to the Sideways world?

Points well taken.

 

We're yet to know, and perhaps we won't ever, what makes Des special. We know he's got something pretty good going on, and it's not to MIBs benefit, but what it is and why he has it is still left unexplaned.