tonyd19 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Wrong and wrong. Nic Harris never lifted weights in college[/i] in an effort to stay light enough to play saftey. Give him a chance to hit the gym. He is also bigger than all of our other LBs minus Poz. I am not talking about their listed weights, I am talking about how big they actually are. Second, Harris has similair speed to Byrd (40 time wise), who is still a DB. He is clearly the most athletic LB on the team. Ellison sucks and should be cut. I rejoiced when he was out of the game. Now if you want to B word about Maybin, go for it. The guy is the same size as TO. I wonder how quick TOs first step is.... Great, so we have a lazy college safety playing as an undersized NFL linebacker with a work ethic problem. GO Modrak & Guy! I bet he can cover punts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd19 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I assume you are talking about Harris and not Ellison. Harris looks every bit of 234 pounds to me......he is carrying a lot of muscle and he has potental to add more because of his biuld. So what do you do when you are drafting in the middle rounds? Do you draft people who look the part but cant play worth a crap? When you get to the middle rounds you are drafting on the POTENTIAL of what they could be and can make plays. Now...If I understand your arguement here you think that there should be solid proven starters in all of those spots....shoot I wish that as well. Yes I was talking about Ellison. And, no, I wish Buffalo would draft guys in the later rounds who have the potential to be impact players, and work them down to special teams if they cannot hack it, instead of drafting guy who project to be good special teamers, but have no real potential to be impact players....if that makes sense. Like I said it is an organizational problem of how they evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Great, so we have a lazy college safety playing as an undersized NFL linebacker with a work ethic problem. GO Modrak & Guy! I bet he can cover punts though. I didnt say he never worked out. Jamal Lewis claims he has never lifted a weight in his life, yet he ran for 2000 yards. When you are naturally 230 - like Harris - and trying to play safety you dont need weights. Now he is an NFL LB and could get to 260 in a heartbeat if he wanted to. Why would he aim to do that when our coaches want him at 235? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd19 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Just like every other issue with Buffalo...It is a lack of balls from the front office, to the coaching staff, to the quarterback, to the entire attitude of the team. If you draft and evaluate guys to be 2nd string fill-ins who never can really compete for a starting spot because they are not talented enough. Your starters are never really pushed, and if one of them are injured the back up is not talented enough to step in long term. The front office needs to grow a pair when drafting and get the most talented player available. Forget high motor,forget smart player, what matters is playmaking ability. They need to make a statement that if you are not good enough to start, you are not good enough to be a Buffalo Bill. You should not be content to be a special teams ace year in and year out...If you are, you have already lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I didnt say he never worked out. Jamal Lewis claims he has never lifted a weight in his life, yet he ran for 2000 yards. When you are naturally 230 - like Harris - and trying to play safety you dont need weights. Now he is an NFL LB and could get to 260 in a heartbeat if he wanted to. Why would he aim to do that when our coaches want him at 235? 260? If he got that big, he'd be our nose tackle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd19 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I didnt say he never worked out. Jamal Lewis claims he has never lifted a weight in his life, yet he ran for 2000 yards. When you are naturally 230 - like Harris - and trying to play safety you dont need weights. Now he is an NFL LB and could get to 260 in a heartbeat if he wanted to. Why would he aim to do that when our coaches want him at 235? Just being a little sarcastic there. I am sure Harris works very hard. But we need guys who are hungary and want to win, will doanything to win and grab the job by the nuts when they get in the game. See Jarius Byrd. Not guys who play timid or are not good enough to fill in when the starter goes down. See Corto and Wendling. Both are good on special teams, neither should be on this team long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Yes I was talking about Ellison. And, no, I wish Buffalo would draft guys in the later rounds who have the potential to be impact players, and work them down to special teams if they cannot hack it, instead of drafting guy who project to be good special teamers, but have no real potential to be impact players....if that makes sense. Like I said it is an organizational problem of how they evaluate. Ellison is listed at 6' 229 pounds......... Harris has 3 inches of height and more weight on him AND is moving from a safety position where he was trying to keep his weight down to play safety........ Just wait till Harris is in a NFL weightroom for an offseason...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd19 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I didnt say he never worked out. Jamal Lewis claims he has never lifted a weight in his life, yet he ran for 2000 yards. When you are naturally 230 - like Harris - and trying to play safety you dont need weights. Now he is an NFL LB and could get to 260 in a heartbeat if he wanted to. Why would he aim to do that when our coaches want him at 235? BTW are you seriously comparing Jamal Lewis to Nic Harris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd19 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Ellison is listed at 6' 229 pounds......... Harris has 3 inches of height and more weight on him AND is moving from a safety position where he was trying to keep his weight down to play safety........ Just wait till Harris is in a NFL weightroom for an offseason...... For Buffalos sake I hope you are right and I am wrong. I just cannot think of one linebacker....ever ....that was a safety in college and became a good linebacker in the NFL (BTW this is anyone's cue to prove me wrong). Buffalo has a better chance of converting Maybin to an impact player at LB than Harris in my opinion...but I hope I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd19 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I didnt say he never worked out. Jamal Lewis claims he has never lifted a weight in his life, yet he ran for 2000 yards. When you are naturally 230 - like Harris - and trying to play safety you dont need weights. Now he is an NFL LB and could get to 260 in a heartbeat if he wanted to. Why would he aim to do that when our coaches want him at 235? The coaches want him at 235 because that is his natural weight and he would be too slow to play S of LB at 260. Guys who play NFL linebacker well are 250 to 260 and are stronger and as fast as Harris is at 235, because their body types dictate that they can effectively carry that extra muscle. That is the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Just being a little sarcastic there. I am sure Harris works very hard. But we need guys who are hungary and want to win, will doanything to win and grab the job by the nuts when they get in the game. See Jarius Byrd. Not guys who play timid or are not good enough to fill in when the starter goes down. See Corto and Wendling. Both are good on special teams, neither should be on this team long term. Ok, and I completely agree with you about our drafting of special teams players. I thought today Harris played more timid than I have ever seen him play, whether his 4 years in college or the pre season. Its amazing what a couple weeks under Jauron can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 The coaches want him at 235 because that is his natural weight and he would be too slow to play S of LB at 260. Guys who play NFL linebacker well are 250 to 260 and are stronger and as fast as Harris is at 235, because their body types dictate that they can effectively carry that extra muscle. That is the difference. Way to generalize when you have no idea what kind of weight he could carry. And to clarify, our coaches want small linebackers so we cant stop the run, duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 how exactly do the players Buffalo drafted come cheaper then any other player they would have drafted at the same spot? sometimes you have to see what you have and we already know what we have in Ellison so there is no reason why Harris shouldnt be playing...his NFL position is clearly LB so with the way they are playing there is no reason he doesnt start the rest of the year it was good to see a LB hit a RB in the flat immediately after making a catch, when was the last time we seen that Its funny, but when I saw that hit I thought of Antoine Winfield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Harris and other young players (Byrd, Greer, Jackson) wont see the field in dick jauron's scheme because there's the chance they might make a mistake. Dick jauron would rather have his players make no plays but no mistakes, instead of a possible mistake and a possible big play. Hence the reason that crap (a-train, webster, scott/wilson) see the field instead of young guys with potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Ellison is listed at 6' 229 pounds......... Harris has 3 inches of height and more weight on him AND is moving from a safety position where he was trying to keep his weight down to play safety........ Just wait till Harris is in a NFL weightroom for an offseason...... Agreed. Taking digs at Harris, are similar to taking shots at anyone drafted this season (Maybin included). Its simply too early to tell. The same can be said for later round picks of the past 2 seasons. Later round picks typically take longer to develop and make less of an immediate impact. Time is needed to gain an accurate assessment. Harris shows the potential, and seems to be in more control than Ellison. He also is a rookie, with a lot of room for growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Harris and other young players (Byrd, Greer, Jackson) wont see the field in dick jauron's scheme because there's the chance they might make a mistake. Dick jauron would rather have his players make no plays but no mistakes, instead of a possible mistake and a possible big play. Hence the reason that crap (a-train, webster, scott/wilson) see the field instead of young guys with potential. Agree 100% that Dick never players rookies, forwhatever reason, but Ellison has made more mistakes in one game than I have seen otherr plays make in a season. It is unconcievable to me how a multi year starter could possibly be that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd19 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Way to generalize when you have no idea what kind of weight he could carry. And to clarify, our coaches want small linebackers so we cant stop the run, duh. LOL yea we can swarm our defense like a bunch of angry bees attacking a freight train...BUZZZZZZZ!!! I think if Harris was the next Ray Lewis he would have been moved to linebacker in college because his coaches would have made the switch then. Also, come on guys, he's a 5th round pick...How good do you really think he is going to be (He wasn't even that good of a safety in college, let alone the NFL). There are exceptions, but really. I don't want to be a buzz kill (get it...buzzz) but Harris is obviously another special teams guy who will never be an impact player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 LOL yea we can swarm our defense like a bunch of angry bees attacking a freight train...BUZZZZZZZ!!! I think if Harris was the next Ray Lewis he would have been moved to linebacker in college because his coaches would have made the switch then. Also, come on guys, he's a 5th round pick...How good do you really think he is going to be (He wasn't even that good of a safety in college, let alone the NFL). There are exceptions, but really. I don't want to be a buzz kill (get it...buzzz) but Harris is obviously another special teams guy who will never be an impact player. FYI - Harris played the "Roy" position in college (named after former Dallas Cowboy Roy Williams) which is a hybrid safety/LB position designed by Bob Stoops to defend the spread. Depending on the formation, he could line up as, and have the responsibilities of, the Mike, Will, free, or strong safety. No college team plays an NFL D on every down, they scheme to defend a variety of offenses. So, to address your comment, they did move him to linebacker while he was in college, but instead of being taken out for say a nickleback, he was the nickleback. These moves are talked about a little in this article http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/nic-harris?id=71323 He was also a two time consensus All-American. Just sayin. Why are you so quick to rip a guy who has done nothing but perform and perform well? Hes not the next Ray Lewis, but he is already better than Ellison. MUCH better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurdog1 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 tonyd19, I guess you never heard of Brian Uhlacher. He was a college safety and was/is a good MB when he's healthy but you're right no one has done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 All I am saying is he is another Bill without a true position. Classic line"he's bigger than Ellison" Ellison is drastically undersized by NFL standards. I know we can't get 1st round talent with every pick, but my issue is they draft guys intentionally to be career special teamers. Other teams drat guys to compete for starting positions, if they can't hack it, they play special teams for a year, and are gone if they do not improve. We get guys like Wilson, Wendling, Corto, Harris, Stupar...All high motor guys who give it there all. I am sure they are wonderful around the fans and are great to have a beer with...But are they, or will they ever be playmakers? Are they talented enough guys to be kept around year after year and be anything but fill ins? Probably not, and if they are not, it is time to free up those spots for guys who could possibly develop into difference makers and let them learn on special teams. (Yes, I know Harris is a rookie, I am talking about an organizational mindset more than anything.) Well season over. Finally. for Good. the only why you get in the wild card is to win 10 or 11 games, that issnt happening. Look at Vikings. jared allen, the williamss, farve, mckinnie, hutchinson, winfield.. that is a team committed to keeping their players getting more of the good ones and competing for the title. going after Favre to replace the one weak spot was extremely expensive but it is working and they are going to the super bowl without question. the bills are a minor league franchise playing in a major league. sad. rebuilding again. o line is a project. by the time that's fixed the d line will be shot. by the time thats fixed the running game will be shot . this is the bills.. never really put it together.. i will watch the next two games against the botton 15 teams Tenn. and Jax but not much beyond that. just not competitive enough against the top 15 teams .. never will be... not a great organization. trying hard, but just not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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