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I'll take Winfield over Nate.

Agree, very mediocre... Nate's the only one I miss.

I counted 21 total. Let me know if I missed any others. Obviously this list will shrink some after all of the final roster cuts: Antoine Winfield, CB, 1999 (Minnesota) Sammy Morris, RB, 2000 (New England) Nate Clements, CB, 2001 (San Francisco) Jimmy Williams, CB, 2001 (Houston) Ron Edwards, DT, 2001 (Kansas City) Mike Williams, OT, 2002 (Washington) Coy Wire, S, 2002 (Atlanta) Justin Bannan, DT, 2002 (Baltimore) Rodney Wright, WR, 2002 (Kansas City) Willis McGahee, RB, 2003 (Baltimore) Mario Haggan, LB, 2003 (Denver) Sam Aiken, WR, 2003 (New England) Angelo Crowell, LB, 2003 (Tampa Bay) Tim Anderson, DT, 2004 (Dallas) Duke Preston, C, 2005 (Green Bay) Eric King, CB, 2005 (Detroit) Justin Geisinger, G, 2005 (Carolina) Terrance Pennington, T, 2006 (New York Giants) Dwayne Wright, RB, 2007 (New York Giants) C.J. Ah You, DE, 2007 (St. Louis) Kennard Cox, S, 2008 (Jacksonville)

Stupar is white. Check out this article about him: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5090601785.html Also, Stupar is the nephew of Jeff Hostetler, and the brother of current Penn State linebacker Nate Stupar. His father was also a lineman at Penn State from 1976-79.

Was that the game when Nate Odomes stole a catch out of a receiver's arms and returned it for a touchdown? That was the only play of the game I saw (I was working that night). I remember laughing my ass off at how easy he made it look.

The other element I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned is that this was the middle game of 3 in a row that all had incredible nail-biting endings, in which the Bills were victorious. This was the year they could do no wrong (until that final game....ahem....but I digress) The week prior to the Broncos game, the Bills were down 24-14 against the (LA)Raiders. James Williams ran a blocked punt back for a TD. Shortly afterward. Nate Odomes stole, I mean he took it right out of the receiver's hands (Willie Gault) after a clean reception by Gault, and ran the other direction for a touchdown. Gault, at that time, one of the fastest, if not the fastest men in the NFL, stood there not believing what had just happened. In between those two plays, Norwood had kicked one for 3 points. Bills won the game, 38-24. In the Jets game, two weeks later (the week after Broncos game), the Bills won on a last second pass in the endzone to Jamie Mueller to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. I don't have reference manual "Relentless" handy, but I think those 3 scores (TD, FG TD)in the Raider game, as in the Broncos game, all came within a very short span also. In the combined games that year against the Raiders (AFC Final participant), the scored were a combined 89-24. Cmplete domination. Should have saved some of it for the Giants, (who they also outscored in the 2 game combined outcomes). They never felt like they were out of it. That team had an extreme level of confidence. I think Marv has to be given some credit for using their egos and cockiness and molding into the team chemistry that made them so confident. Ah...those were the days.

How confident are you in our two starting corners? McGee coming off an injury, and a rather disappointing year IMO.,And McKelvin, still learning and quite raw, but with great potential? I actually see McKelvin having a higher ceiling then lets say Nate "show me the money" Clements. I really like the corners and depending on who wins the nickle spot, i also like our depth. With corners like these its easy to forget the Ken Irvins, and Chris Watsons ( awful, just awful ). I also think practicing against Lee, and Terrell will help these young men tremendously. Lets assume some of the bad play at corner last year was due to our inept pass rush. And a good pass rush should help our secondary. And in theory our defense as a whole. Hopefully we have 25 weeks to critique their play.

No, he didn't. That's a myth. Clements was able to brag about recieving an 8 year $80 million contract but if you look at the details, he didn't even come close to that. In the last two years of his contract, he will recieve $36.5 million of the $80 million. Think he's going to be on the team for that? That contract is actually a 6 year $43.5 million contract. And yes, I do think we should have given him that contract. H was easily worth it. Yeah, he's sucked in S.F. Might be because the defensive line gets about as much pressure on the QB as our line did last year. Watch Nate rejuvenate his career now that they have Singletary putting an effective defense together. CBs are highly dependent on the other members of the defense doing their job, as I'm sure you know.

Absolutely. But Nate Clements wasn't. He was in very much the same category.

True colors shining through...that's right, Ans. people don't ever change, and even when they do, it's their failures that should be remembered, right? I'm sorry you feel that way, it's sad really. And just so you know, there's no way that Mike Williams got Donahoe fired. Donahoe got Donahoe fired, and he didn't need any help. He was fired b/c he couldn't pick a good coach and refused to change things when they went wrong. If it was all about the players that TD brought in, he NEVER would have been fired. He drafted Nate Clements, Aaron Schobel, Travis Henry, Josh Reed, Terrence McGee, and Lee Evans; he signed Takeo Spikes, Sam Adams, London Fletcher; it's not like he didn't draft good players. The fact that you feel slighted by Williams' actions in the past does not mean that he's a scum bag. He didn't take his job seriously enough, that's it. You have no reason to take it personally, yet for some reason you do. Your little ditty about how he should come back to the Bills and pay them back for their "loyalty" is ridiculous on a lot of counts. First, there's no indication that any team other than Washington wanted him, even though he had to (as you put it) "beg" his way back into the league, so how he's supposed force his way on to a team's roster without their consent for the sole purpose of paying them back is a little beyond me. Second, what "loyalty" did Buffalo show to him that's got you in such a dither? As I said before, the TEAM picked Williams, he didn't draft himself onto the team. If he did, I might understand this "loyalty" of which you speak. Hanging onto a player in an attempt to get a return on an ill-advised investment is not loyalty, it's business, nothing more. And moreover, it's Buffalo's fault for getting the pick wrong. The head of any organization is ultimately held responsible for its success (or lack thereof), blaming one employee for it is beyond absurd. But hey, it doesn't really matter what either of us think. He's going to get his chance, and if he's made the changes in his life that he needed to, he'll be successful. Just don't expect a check in the mail.

Last year after the SF game ( yes that disaster ), a ton of fans were chanting TKO in the tunnel endzone. He came over and signed for a couple kids. I said, Takeo we miss you, and he replied " Thanks man my heart is still in Buffalo ". That dude loved playing here even though we never made it to the playoffs. Nate Clements showed lots of love after that game to. Thats how it should be...nothing drives me more crazy than going to a Sabres game and listening to people boo someone they worshipped a year prior.

Nate.

Yup... Can't neglect our Cowboy connection with Hollywood Henderson, Dwayne Goodrich and Nate Newton... and not forgetting HOFer Bob Hayes!

I was just looking at interception stats the other day for stud corners (i.e., Nate Clements, A. Winfield, etc.). Guys like that average 2-3 picks per year (i.e., if you average out their careers). A lot lower than I would have guessed. So, while it's not out of the realm of possibilities that our Irish corners will have 4 or 5 picks, it would be an unbelievably great year if it happened.

My best guess is that Pat Thomas is going to be our backup ILB this season, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them go and grab another veteran. Matt Wilhelm, Nate Webster and Napoleon Harris are available.

Well Pat Williams and Schobel were draft picks so was McGee and Nate Clemens. Troy Vincent was a guy few teams wanted because of his age. True we were able to grab guys like Milloy, Sam Adams, London Fletcher and Spikes all of whom were fairly desired guys when they entered free agency. Players will come to Buffalo you will just have to over pay them a little until we become a contender again. Dockery was a sought after free agent and he came here but he came for the money and it didn't work out so well. Drafting will always be so important to the Bills success but you have to supplement a team with a few free agent grabs. Even if you are only adding a piece or two you still have to spend money to keep some of the players you draft/develop. The big issue with the Bills to me is that they are a 7-9 team who will get better in two or three areas with the draft, trades, developing players, and mid level free agents but than you loose 2-3 players of your own and than it amounts to no progress. This year we took a chance on a guy like TO and we had one of the guys we lost Greer replacement waiting in the wings McKelvin. So I hope despite DJ's best efforts we improve and make the playoffs.

Its funny I was playing NFL 2K5 the other day and it featured the 2004 Bills and I realized how nasty that D was and that the offense was decent too. The only real weakness the Bills had that year on defense was a pass rush next to Schobel the rest of the D was really good. You had Pat and Sam clogging up the Middle as well as Schobel attacking from the outside. London and Spikes were really nasty Line backers. The secondary featured Nate and McGee with Troy Vincent and Lawyer Milloy at safety a really solid bunch. The offense had Moulds and Evans along the outside as well as Wills and Travis Henery running the ball. Bledsoe still had something left in the tank. The O-line was suspect (Even though Jonas Jennings was better than expected) and the Tightend position was nothing to brag about so the offense wasn't a good unit but a middle of the road unit. The 2004 season was the culmination of the TD era. All his big free agent signings, big trades, and draft picks were in place and we got to 9-7 and no playoffs. Than thanks to letting Pat Williams go and Letting Bledsoe walk a year early. The team got old quick and what big name players that were left and still producing wanted out. Yet had things gone a little differently we would have had at least one trip to the playoffs.

Get over that hail mary by Leftwich in week one already. When it really counted, late in the season, the Bills came home off a 6 game winning streak. Six straight wins leading up to week 17....(poor DJ would probably have a heart attack if his Buffalo Bills could end a season like that) Last home game of the season, against the Steelers who had everything sewn up and were only playing a choice few starters. We had no way of knowing until late that night, but with a win over that less then full strength Steelers team would have put the Bills in the playoffs....even though Nate didn't knock the ball down in week one. What happened? Of course Bledsoe played like a frieghtened rookie, the defense could not stop third string Wille Parker running behind 2nd and 3rd string blockers, and the Bills lost the damn game that Cowher was trying to hand them. The fact that Parker ending up being a premier running back the next couple years did not make me feel any better. He was the 3rd stringer for that game, and the Bills "great" defense sucked when it needed to be at it's best. Sorry, but I had to remind the 2004 fans that the season was worse then they think. And the way they fell apart in 2005, dumping Bledsoe and starting Lost-man finishing 5-11-0, was a more fitting season then the "fake" success of '04.

Knock the ball down, Nate!

The CBAs between the owners and the NFLPA have transferred many tens of billions of dollars from football fans to the players, whether via ticket cost increases or increases in prices of Dodge Ram Tough trucks due to the cost of the endless TV commercials that make games last for 75 hours (deliberate use of hyperbole, K-9, NOT a lie). Fans payed for Nate Clements' ludicrous contract with the 49ers, not the 49ers ownership. I'm cryin' for both the owners and players.

Until Leodis becomes that shut down guy Mr. Moss will own us and we will have no chance of takin out the Pats. If it wasnt for Moss I think that we stand a chance of upsetting the Pats once this year. Moss eats us for lunch though. He dominated Nate when he was in Minnesota and kills us now regardless of who we put on him. So unless Leodis can do what Nate, Greer, and McGee couldnt which is even contain the guy the losing streak to NE will continue.

Maybe Nate Clements in 2004: 6 INTs (one returned for TD), a punt return TD, 5 forced fumbles, 59 tackles and 14 passes deflected. Pro- Bowl.

I agree, tis quite expensive. Just think, the Kelly Reebok "SAMPLE" jacket with real leather sleeves and 75% wool body, only cost me roughly 29 bucks on ebay four years ago. However, if the back of the coat- "Buffalo Bills" was somewhat smaller and was the real "Bills" name logo, I might be inclined to purchase. I bought some authentic jersey's over the past 20 years and now with the new "Oriental Authentic" jersey's i have saved a lot of money. I haven't purchased one from the Bills Store or NFL.com since '02. I bought an authentic 2004 Jim Kelly 75th Anniversary w/35th Bills aniversary patches, Rob Johnson, Eric Moulds, Nate Clements and Willis McGahee. With that money I could buy two of those jackets I linked to.

The buck stops at Ralph Wilson's desk. HE CREATES the FOs, and for that matter, has previously DESTROYED other FOs. As for the Bills 2nd round draft choices: * Travis Henry * Aaron Schobel * Ryan Denney * Josh Reed * Chris Kelsay * Roscoe Parrish * Paul Posluszny * James Hardly -after The Bills have had CHOICE first round draft picks since the 2001 draft. Here's the harvest: * Nate Clements * Mike Williams * Willis McGahee * J.P. Losman * Lee Evans * John McCargo * Donte Whitner * Marshawn Lynch * Leodis McKelvin Starting to see while the Bills still do not a the core for a playoff team? Between the busts, the disappearos, and the so whats, we have the core of a 7-9 team. One step forward, 1.5 steps back.

The Bills have had CHOICE first round draft picks since the 2001 draft. Here's the harvest: * Nate Clements * Mike Williams * Willis McGahee * J.P. Losman * Lee Evans * John McCargo * Donte Whitner * Marshawn Lynch * Leodis McKelvin That should have been the core of our playoff aspirations. Pass the Mad Dog...