colin

we need allen to get better at reading the d like brady so our D can hold them to 9. if our d could hold kc to 9 allen would have 5 rings.

9ers or pittz makes the most sense.

if we got mack on a better value contract to fill in for the occasional pass rusher role and traded for garrett the d line would be completely shocking. i'd be comfortable keeping who we have for the rest of it and just filling in gaps w rookies and i'd be confident we'd cruise to a top 5 D

garrett is better than crosby, but crosby might just be a slightly better individual pass rusher/sack artist. the size and power of garrett puts him over IMO. both i don't think could ever fit into our cap, either would really improve our D. what's interesting is clevland might have a cap issue trading garrett, so that complicates it.

if babbich is scapegoated and fired, this guy just slides in as DC. it is known.

as an ultra hater, the accusations have merit and are pretty terrible. but we also have a talent deficiency. some holes filled in the draft and a wrecking ball like garrett could be enough to force 2 more punts per game in the playoffs. allen w a possession advantage like that, w our line and rb, is more than any nfl d can handle.

philosophically i disagree a little bit in that i think building on strength is optimal and making our O even better w big talent is the generally more accessible path, while our D can be improved with just improving overall talent above replacement in a few places. in the interest of what can be done right now, as of today, myles being up for trade basically changes that. adding a higgins or even DK means more deep passing routes, more targets to the new guy, etc. i'm all for that, but there is a cost in terms of opportunity to run and throw to other guys. there is also draft capital, cap, or both for those guys, so it comes down to numbers. garrett is IMO the best defensive player in the NFL, and potentially the guy to break bruce's record. i've never thought that about another nfl player till now, outside of some 2 year stretch that looked great or whatever. he's also a huge physical nasty guy, that's worth a lot on the DL. i think a whirl or two at WR and one of coleman, samuel, or kinkaid stepping up makes us better on offense. not tee higgins better, but better. gerrett solves so many problems at once on our d, and means the slightly better depth DT, S, and CB we add in the draft or on the cheap now plays much better with a game wrecker on the field with them. if benford is healthy, and we have someone better than hamlin, bishop (i think he might get there in his second year) and some of the trash we had at depth DT, if you add garrett we stop KC 4 or 5 times instead of 2, and we have the ball more and on shorter fields and get to like 34 points with kc in the 20s and playing desperation mode to catch up.

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT YOU FOOL! lol, seriously I think that's the lowest hanging fruit. we've re done our secondary in the past with good results, just make it not suck and add talent to the O so we score 7-10 extra in the KC game.

given we keep our brain trust, this is where I am. we can plug some holes on D in the draft, get young cheap fast players and hopefully add wrinkles to the d so it's not so easy to beat. CB, S, and pass rush all kinda suck, but we aren't likely to get impact guys at all of those positions, especially given our cap. I say just get less terrible on D (3rd down, basically) and throw in DK, Higgins, or whoever to force defenses to stop our run with light boxes and deep coverage (not gonna happen).

I think what is most obviously true is josh has grown up, and the bills have far and away the best OL and Run game in the Allen era. We consistently win in the trenches on the offensive side of the ball, and then you have allen making magic and cook, davis, and Ty who combine to be a top 3-5 running back unit. To me it's how josh is playing and where our talent is (i'd say our elite talents now are dawkins, brown, cook, and allen, before it was allen, diggs, maybe dawkins (i think he's better cuz the LG is way better) and Milano). it's gone from WLB (milano is still a player, just not what he was in 2022) and kinda S and CB (white fell off horribly after injury, but was near elite before, pay and hyde were a great duo but never the most talented guys) to OL, RB. also, Diggs was never a vertical threat vs his underneath stuff and route running, which we have in shakir. allen and a good OL can score on anyone, but we just can't score enough to offset our putrid playoff D.

Statistically this season we were better vs the run than the pass, quite a bit better in terms of EPA. Part of it is our d generally stopped big runs (not vs bmore, lol) w the back end, kinda allowed medium runs via light boxes, and got near the top in the NFL in stuff's because of shooting gaps and what not. Vs the pass we were pretty awful, and now where showed that more than 3rd downs. I think our scheme has linemen running a lot more than most, so our linemen get tired. I'm not really worried about all of that or the rotation or whatever. I'm worried about how any high level O can just lean on what they want to do and do it at will to us. In 21 and 22 when we had the 1 and 2 rates Ds in the NFL, the game splits were shocking. Blowing out creampuffs, while getting just trucked a few times (Indy and ne when they ran the ball all over us, and every single playoff game vs a non terrible offense). We need talent on D, but we need to not have giant holes either. Given that our O had been a disgusting monster since 2020, and generally as good or better in the playoffs, I say build on strength, make the O out staple, and for the d I hope our FO can find a bit of flexibility to not lock the entire roster and scheme so narrowly so that we don't just totally capsize when benford or Milano or Johnson inevitably get injured. Also, if we get more scheme diverse guys (basically it means they have speed size and ability rather than just whatever it is that MCD loves so much) then if they crap the bed for the 6th consecutive time in the playoffs and we fire the FO, we aren't left with some rage tag squad of Hamlin and Elam and rapp.

knox, von, and milano have signed contracts which did damage to this team because of injuries. i feel like we might face the same thing with groot, bernard, and benford. guys who miss games, or have their play fall off hard due to injury, but are on big contracts essentially crush your team. injuries happen of course, but some guys just get hurt more than others.

Lol, do people still think Marv is gonna win us one in the end? It was kinda the same thing with cook killing KC on runs last week, but the sb25 game was more insane because of how our d was also keeping them from scoring points And they a back up QB! Like, can you think of a better time to push a dominant running attack?

Nah, I said I'd be willing to if we also added high end talent to the o, but I'd rather give up another pick. Of cook was the only way to do it I would given a sick wr addition. I use the Rams because: They won a chip They put a 1 overall and an extension into a QB who got them to a chip but not a win, so they made moves to trade him and picks for staffy. They also traded a pick in season for miller (when he was still good) and traded picks for Jalen Ramsey as well, and have had big hits on draft picks. They were close but messed up the biggest thing which is QB, and still won a chip by not being risk averse and went and traded qbs. That's a huge thing to overcome and they did it. They also got themselves in cap jail before, got out and then won a chip with big cap moves, and are good yet again. They value too end talent above all else, particularly at top value positions, and will do what is necessary to get it. The bills have made aggressive in season moves, but for hines and Douglas and amari cooper (I think if he never broke his wrist he might have gotten us over, but the other two moves were not at all for too talent). We made the move of extending diggs for absolute tippy top wr money, at the wrong age and with his production declining. To me, that's a scaredy half measure. He wasn't worth that and they just would rather over pay their own guy who can't get it done than take a risk. The clearest issue from a sort of pro MCD POV is that we lack pass rush, now they made the move for von, but the contract reworkings (after von got hurt) and extension of diggs shut the door for them to really bring in a top pass rusher. I'm not a fan overall of our front office, but they saw a need for QB, wr, and pass rush and they made moves and at least for part of all of those they worked. They got a little gun shy imo and soaked up the cap and picks on non difference makers (all the fa dl, Knox type contracts) and didn't keep powder dry to make the splash they needed too. I hope they make the moves they need to this off season and get one too flight guy and one elite guy at two of Cb, de/Dr, wr

The way that guy looked in those drills reminded me of Terrell Owens. TO was unique in that he ran all his routes full speed. Helmet would go over his eyes, head leaning way forward over his front foot, most coaches think of that as a mistake, but he made it work. TO also had real hands issues early, lots of drops often from the in a hurry way he always played. This guy might amount to jack, but that's who he reminds me of

I'd give up cook and picks for Maxx if we also added a monster outside wr. Even then, I'd rather trade two picks for Maxx. I'd also look at a few other pass rushers for trade if available, and I'd throw some picks at DL as well. The Rams got serious pass rushers in the past couple drafts, they were monsters in the playoffs. We need top end talent, and then fill the holes w cheap young guys. That's exactly what the Rams and KC have done.

I know mcbeane have supporters here, but the fact of the matter is if they didn't select Josh Allen neither of their names would have been mentioned once by anyone after they got fired here. Maybe MCD gets a DC job

why didn't i think of this! lol mcd's ds have been hot dog water for the bills in every playoff (possible exception vs jaxonville, which is shocking given how weak that roster was). i think the most charitable take is that his d needs good secondary and an elite front to work. on the flip side, allen is so shockingly good in the playoffs every time he plays he extends a record. i'll say once again my dream for the bills this offseason, short of a never gonna happen thing of getting bellickeck. 1. deep threat boundry wr w sick talent. if we had that, we extend a couple drives, score more points, and beat kc this year and last. two chips in our pocket. diggs was never this by the way. 2. better secondary. ours is just too bad. stud cb, really solid value cb, something at cb. and at least two new S. i have hope still for bishop, but hamlin and rapp are not it. 3. pass rush. i actually see this as a lower priority than above, houston and denver have the best pass rushes, and sick secondaries, and they got eaten buy kc and us respectively. we need help here, but im a bit torn. i will lean a bit to saying go get a monster because mcd has had monster d's in carolina with hardy being a total terror on the edge. 4. just talent. lots of young guys. we at least showed willingness to sell out vs the run, play man, and blitz this season, so maybe we will have some scheme diversity? make it so you never have aj klien, hamlin, elam, morrow, an injured douglas, or any of the total cheeks street free agents we've had in the DL rotation getting serious burn on your team. Toohill and i don't even remember the name at DT were getting long burn from us this season. that's way too crappy. put a good cb, a monster DE, and throw rookies all over our D and by the playoffs we might have a little gas to cook with. maybe force 2 punts vs baltimore and 3 or 4 vs kc even! add dk metcalf or tee higgins for josh, and instead of hollins getting the deep looks, it's a world beater. championship!

what's worse to me, he was hurt before and he's a smaller more technical speed and skill guy. a guy like that loses his knee and speed and he's what we saw out there. calais camble has been old fat and hurt for like 7 years and he's been all pro a couple times in that span. i remember an old scouting book (i think derived from bellichek's guide he wrote while coaching at navy) that read "power fits all schemes". i poop all over mcd, but looking back at his carolina Ds, he had luke and that other backer, made josh norman 50mm when he didn't have anywhere near top cb talent, and his d turned manning into mush (but cam newton turned into a pumpkin that game). the real part was short at DT and hardy the kraken (actual psycho and bottom tier human being) just destroying everyone off the edge. maybe swapping an 1st and 2nd for maxx gets us to that level.

I think you are directionally correct in that we just need some real actual top end talent above what we have, but i have to disagree strongly on the raven's roster quality. in terms of front 6 alone, r smith is a better player than anyone we have in our front 6 (maybe milano could compare in his best season, but he's missed the last two and is not as good as he was then, hope that changes). van noy and that other end (owah? don't remember how to spell his name) are at least for last season equal palyers at least to groot, and he's our best on DL. oliver is a boom bust guy, so from that POV you could say van noy was slightly better last year, but maybe you'd rather have oliver now given age. DT is where there is just zero comparison. our 3rd round rookie got hurt and keeps the bench warm as a healthy scratch, they are 3 or 4 deep with just monsters who got them the number 1 run d in the nfl. they have a hole at cb 2, but we have a giant chasm if douglas or benford went down. benford if he stays heathy might be a better corner than their cb1 next season, but we are without a cb2 after douglas walks (he's falling off himself). their safeties are miles and miles better than ours. they have the best in the nfl, we have what might be the worst set of safeties in the nfl, and they get hurt a lot. on O, our OL is better but not by miles, lamar and josh are neck and neck in most eyes but i'd say josh is def better. henry and their back up are better than ours, ours are good, henry is a hall of famer. their TEs are head and shoulders above ours, they both block and catch (andrews made his *****, kinkaid made his) and at wr neither squad is great but flowers is better than anything we have by a margin and of course he was hurt. baltimore has an actual monster roster, but we got luck and played a good game and allen is better than lamar. if you get my wish list, add like higgins or metcalf (or whoever i just thought of those guys) at WR1, mayyybe small upgrade on interior OL or torrence just becomes the best he can, and add a real quality cb and double digit sack DE, then you have a real roster for buffalo that can compare (albeit not necessarily totally outshine) with the baltimore roster. we need a slam dunk or two and a few hits to fill in holes to be there with them. totally doable in a season but it would be our FO's greatest offseason since the one where they got allen.

mcd gets guys to play super hard, want to play when medically they absolutely should not, and they all love playing for him. he has a scheme on d that lives by taking away the deep ball. the bills are always top of the top in stopping the deep ball. schematically, the old saying is a good dc will take away what you do best and make you beat them with something else. when that best thing is deep passes, mcds d can make for a really long day for opponents (denver got one off vs us and then just floundered with the best d in the nfl barely keeping them in the game). the problem is they are a one note band. if you can attack something else, they will still take away the deep pass. they are purpose built to stop the deep pass, and while capable of doing so with what at times is bottom 4 nfl talent in the secondary, there is a cost to play like this. the biggest cost for us is particular scheme fit requirements for players (example: aj klien playing over dorian williams last year vs kc at home) that leaves us in a lurch if any of our small and not fast guys (who we have because they are a scheme fit) inevitably get hurt because we either don't have scheme fit back ups, or he can't trust them/build them up in time to fit. this is mcds team. he says what players he wants drafted and beane gets them. beane is not great at getting them, and has made obvious and clear contract mistakes (extending von, i'll accept going for him in the first place, extending knox, extending diggs). as i just said, those mistakes are extending the guys mcd has affinity for to contracts that exceed their value. every time we let a guy test free agency, with the exception of edmunds who is a legit on paper monster talent, their contract ends up being a failure (phillips) or they come crawling back (poyer, aj). he is too fixed in building his team his way that it just doesn't lead to value. bellicheck was like that, except his scheme was predicated on big strong guys (get hurt less, when they are tired they are still big and strong, a little d gets slower, see our d at the end of games, or the atlanta loss to NE in the superbowl, their d was epically gassed), and he has enough wrinkles in his scheme to change it up for injury or for teams who don't prioritize throwing the ball deep. mcd is better, potentially much better, at what he does than what beane does (he was a successful but not champion dc before, and he really does get this team that is not top 10 in talent, not top 16 outside of allen, to play as hard as they can). the rub is similar to bellichek or parcels, he has a big influence on what the gm does (he hired him for crying out loud) so he owns this more than beane does. the rams are a very purpose built team. their hc is a better oc than mcd is dc, but he's also a one side of the ball guy. they also really fall off hard with injuries as a team, like our d does (on o, allen is just so good he patches holes, if he went down we are done). the difference is mcvey and their GM have identified what top talents they desire and shoot for the moon to get them, and overall have been way better at drafting impact guys (i think you can argue the bills have had really good success in later rounds with value picks). i think that approach must be taken with our FO -- they did it with allen and diggs and it paid off huge (second diggs contract notwithstanding). if they need a pass rush, go make that happen. if they need an outside guy, make that happen. no more of this half measure of drafting aj, groot, and boogie with your top 3 picks in 2 seasons to "solve" the pass rush, no more new rb in the 3rd or 2nd (or a trade like hines) every single year. allen on the rams (if they did a rams move and traded goff and got him) and the rams win like 3 or maybe even more chips since then. aaron donald, maybe ramsey, or puka or a couple of their top flight pass rushers on the bills, and we win 2 or 3. we got the hardest part done w the qb, and now we have an OL and a run game, we need to go over the top.

elite is a bit of a tough term, are there 100 elite players in the nfl? 64, 32? I think you can put players into the "blue chip" or whatever bracket -- players that make players around them better, who could start for all bet very few teams, who everyone wants. now, some of that is positional. everyone needs CBs and OL/DT just not enough men on the planet who can do that job, so those guys are "elite" or blue chip just for being very good at their position. low value positions, TE, OG/OC (still need them, but no where near OT), safety, kinda running back (the rub there is they make huge impacts in the game, but they seem to be good out of college and fall off quickly, so people don't like to sign them and the pass game is more important now more than say 10 years ago). qb doesn't even fall into this. qb is so so important and impactful that going from a just replacement guy (say bridgewater or sam darnold) to a seasoned guy with flaws but solid production (kirk cousins) means back up/maybe gets a contract on a discount to start to 40MM+++ a year, and there is a huge premium on anyone who is young and maybe can become higher level (goff, lawrence, dude in zona) so they get 50+ anyhow. that bust off in NYG got 45 a year, but they let barklay walk for 10mm. to me that's more of a resource management/contract thing than how much the individual payers impact winning games. so, from that POV who are the bill high value players, the ones who make their entire side of the ball better? 1 Allen. Literally the GOAT. he's worth at least 2 and maybe more actual elite talents at nearly any other position 2 Cook. Our best weapon, makes an impact. I think if he got to like above average at pass pro he's elite. he's a top 5 tail back in the nfl 3 dawkins. not the best LT, but a top 5 one. huge positional value 4 brown. lower than LT value, but he's an actual monster. gets exposed in some outside rush situations vs great pressure teams, but allen was least sacked ever and brown run blocks like a maniac 5 benford. position value, and is a very very good corner. not prime gilmore or ramsey or surtain, but more often than not takes away or limits a teams best weapon. big and athletic but not a kyle hamilton (lower position value tho) who is just so big and athletic and skilled that he's an impact on every play. I have injury concerns next layer 6 Johnson. lower position value than outside cb, but at his best was legit our best player on D in many games vs run and pass. small and not a natural cover corner like the top outside guys, but solid in everything and an absolute dog 7 Milano. Lower position value, biggest issue is his injuries. in 2022 he was maybe behind warner and one or two other guys as the best off ball lb in the nfl. lacks the speed power size combo of a prime roquan smith/cj mosely (how do they all end up at baltimore?) but always made large impacts. im hopeful he can get back to form in 2025, but the most likely thing is he will be really good but not what he was 8 ed oliver. very inconsistent, gets washed in the run too much. he basically plays rock paper scissors all the time. he disappears too much and isn't a big guy at all so he can't just plug up like other top dts can. when he's on he shoots gaps recklessly and just totally disrupts plays with individual play. his games vs the rams and detroit show me who is more than any others. rams game he was basically trash, no impact at all, nothing close to a forced punt or turnover and didn't get a sniff of a not mobile qb. detroit he totally dominated the game, and covered up huge secondary deficiencies by dominating vs the best O and about the best OL in football. 9 Groot. big long strong DE, except for some breakdowns vs mahomes has been a top of the pile run/edge defender. creates pass rush but cannot impact the passing game effectively on a consistent basis 10 Shakir. small, not fast, not a super crisp route runner. plucky tough smart dependable and has a mind link with allen. our best (only?) passing weapon, but limited in what Ds he can attack from where IMO those are our top 10 players. Bernard and williams show flashes, but injuries/mistakes keep them below. i was hoping kinkaid would break out this year but he did the opposite, im sure a pcl didn't hep, but he's physically weak as an nfl TE and he's not young for a 2 year player. a cabinet of steroids and weight room addiction might put him in the dangerous offensive weapon category. torrence might become more fleet of foot and aware and become a top 10 G, but he's no there at all yet. to answer the question, do we have enough elite talent to win a chip: i think we are knocking on the door or are one or two players away in that regard. a guy who could beat out one of the 10 above at outside wr would mean we are 6ish players on O who are in that upper tier, with josh allen and a line like we have that's a shot at an all time O with a little OL play improvement in pass pro (i mean very little, just a tiny bit). on d our scheme and talent leaves a ton to be desired. we had far and away the worst d in the afc playoffs, and based on our prior playoffs, i think it's safe to say our D would have been the worst or tied for the worst even if it was it's best, say our 2021 or 2022 D. i think get the outside wr talent, and just plug up our many athletic and player holes w picks on d (safety, CB but i would also sign a guy if he's there, DL/pass rush where a top guy would help too, LB should be solid but you worry about depth given injury history, and our DTs kinda totally suck nearly as bad as safety).

I don't mean what has happened lately, I mean what happened before. After we got Diggs and had breakout Allen under a rookie contract (going into the 2021 and 2022 seasons, before our recent push on the OL and adding Kinkaid, Cook, Coleman, etc) we were mad D heavy. Tre was on his big extension, Milano was extended, we got Von for the 2022 season, we drafted AJ, Groot, and Basham in consecutive years, drafted Elam in 2022, drafted Bernard in the 3rd in 2022, had Edmunds on his 5th year, and signed a plethora of DL (sadly, none really worked out). we had the 1 and 2 ranked D in those years. So we did this push to build the D, and even with great regular season statistical success, they folded like a cheap suit in the playoffs. Our O was and continued to be awesome in the playoffs, only stinker was cinci and the d was even worse in that game. I'm simply applying the scientific method -- when we made moves to shore up the O (trading for diggs, bolstering the OL, putting resources into skill talent like cook, coleman, kincaid) our O just got better, even when those moves included some misses. When we made moves for the D (much much more in terms of signings, cap, and draft picks) we didn't have a better regular season record than in 2024 or 2020 when we had worse D's statistically, and the D folded just the same as it did this season when our talent was clearly less. So, we get our better returns on O than on D, in fact we basically eliminated our negative variance on O this season, fewest toxic plays (sack, turnover) in nfl history! based on this and what i see is our schematic/coaching/philosophical limitations on D, coupled with having 3 top 5 guys on O (cook, brown, dawkins) and the goat at QB, I think we can put the O way over the top with one or two moves, and would be wise to be cheaper faster and younger on D. I agree a real impact guy on DL or DB would be a huge gain, but it wouldn't put us over the top as clearly. DK metcalf, or Amari cooper of 2 years ago would have IMO. Where i disagree is i go DK over maxx -- in good part because his contract will be cheaper and i think he costs less picks to get, but the other reasons are as i've stated above. I'm also kinda thinking a top CB might help our D more, but again that's value influenced (i think a top 12 guy at CB and some picks makes our secondary kinda nasty, i think maxx crosby helps the d more over the season statistically, but kc could scheme around him more than a secondary.

I disagree. our coaching staff has dumped resources into the D and had good regular season stats with worse regular season records (in years when the O was really good too, just not as good/consistent as it is now) and still sucked balls in the playoffs. multiple times. our path to a chip based on where we are now and with who our coaches are is to get a top flight vertical weapon WR on O, maybe improve interior pass pro (just one guy, can be a draft pick or a value signing), get one real guy on D (pass rush or CB, im leaning CB) and then just draft bodies on the D, BPA on that side of the ball. bishop elam douglas hamlin and johson was a horrible skill/speed/size mix for nearly half of the defensive players vs kc, and an off injury milano and banged up bernard were not very effective either. our back 7 as a unit was a disaster vs baltimore and KC. trying to turn them into the 85 bears is a fool's errand, our coaching has shown they cannot produce a big game D, but can produce a big game O. aim for average on D, at a good price, and have this o take the small step it needs to literally be the best ever.

well, i'm a corch hater, and the data shows me mcd's Ds are putrid in the playoffs. in fact they feast vs teams who can't find the one thing they can really beat us at, and totally fall apart against a high quality qb with weapons/scheme or a power run team that commits to it. even when we were ranked 1 and 2 in the nfl on d, the playoff EPA and the EPA vs teams that fit the above profile would fall off a cliff. I think large investment in the D at this juncture is foolish. we have had rookie contract allen and massive investment in D. between our scheme, coaches, and the talent we got, we had stellar regular season stats, poorer regular season records (largely because the daboll offense was super boom or bust, puttin gup 45 or janky teams and scoring like 6 vs the jags, for example), and most importantly still awful playoff performances on D and even more importantly poor playoff d performances vs the cheifs. So what should we do? I say we got ham on an outside WR, i'd rather trade a pick for dk metcalf on a cheaper contract than break the bank and give no picks for higgens, for example, but we need a game changing talent on the outside. we have a roster of slot players and mack hollins. also, some kind of up grade on interior blocking. we can draft or sign someone, it's not going to break the bank, even for a really good (not top 5, but like top 15 or 20) interior guy. this is building on what might be the best strength of the team. a slight improvement in pass pro and maybe allen gets those first or last drive passes off cleanly and we win that game vs kc. thirdly, i'd look to acquire an impact pass rusher or CB. we need more people in the secondary (and some kind of depth, elam cannot have a game like he did vs kc), we need to replace douglas, we need flexibility incase benford is done or wants too much to re up, we need at least one new safety, and we must consider the future at nickle as well. we would benefit most of the time more w an impact pass rusher, but if we added one d player to beat kc on sunday, pat surtain would have helped us more than maxx crosby because the ball came out so fast because our coverage and scheme was so easy to exploit, so i think our most critical need is an improvement in coverage. beyond that, i say use our many draft picks to get BPA on the defensive side of the ball as much as possible. i'll need to trust our FO a little bit to not just over draft scheme and character fits, but to have the foresight to tinker w the scheme a bit so that the best available athletes/players can get burn. kc won a chip with a ton of rookies starting on D, we can do that same. if we can get middle of the pack on 3rd down on D, and just not allow total cake walks like we did vs baltimore and kc, our d will contribute much more to us winning. this might require mcd to work past his phobia of allowing a long pass in order to get more stops.