Bob in Mich

(Apologies to those that saw these links in the recent marijuana thread as some on the first page of this thread are just repeats.) I know NY recently approved medical cannabis and I thought I would post some helpful information as in Michigan we have covered much of the same ground in the last few years. It is apparent that many posting here don't believe that cannabis can be real medicine. That is understandable given that was what most all of us were taught all of our lives. Please try to have an open mind. I promise you that you will learn a great deal. Please check out the recent thread here on marijuana related problems increasing. http://forums.twobil...the-rise-in-us/ Look for my super intelligent comments starting on page 6 of that thread Seriously though, this is important. I am selling nothing but I feel like I should try to spread this knowledge. No joke. Please, if you know anyone with a chronic illness, check out this video. It will be worth it. The first couple of minutes are not representative of the rest of the documentary. You needn't watch the whole hour in one sitting. It is simply amazing https://www.youtube....h?v=XfO_MpDm5kc Edit: Seems that video link is no longer working. These documentaries are pretty good. Try them instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYA9EpVB2qo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aTbnO9I-TU Here is one of the postings from the recent marijuana thread here. I hope the links work. Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:49 AM Medical Cannabis has been legal in Michigan for several years. It can be a very effective medicine which has few side effects when compared to many prescription medicines. Anyone taking medication long term knows that you have to be able to tolerate the side effects of the medication in order for it to help. If you think that there are no medical benefits to cannabis beyond preventing nausea, you really need to read some more recent research because you truly could not be more mistaken. Cannabinoids are molecules found in cannabis. There are about 85 discovered so far, only 1 of which is the much feared THC. Cannabis is effective in treating so many medical ailments because the cannabinoid molecules from the plant are nearly identical to molecules created within our own bodies called endo-cannabinoids. Through recent research we have learned that the body creates an entire network of endo-cannabinoid molecules and cannabinoid receptors in order to transfer messages between cells. The similarity of plant and animal molecules is merely a coincidence of nature but one that allows the plant to stand in and to supply the missing messenger molecules if needed. When there is a disruption in the body's ability to create endocannabinoids, important signals don't get through and a whole host of health problems can develop. The missed message may be to stop feeding a cell that is scheduled to die. If the cannabinoid molecule is not present to pass that signal along, cells may not die when they are designed to and they can divide and metastasize out of control leading to a cancerous tumor. The message that is missing may be to slow down the number or rate of signals to a brain or peripheral nerve cell. Perhaps they are overloaded. This is what can happen with epileptic seizures or chronic pain from damaged nerves. Missing messages can affect nearly every organ in the body. See the website from GW Pharmaceuticals http://www.gwpharm.com and go the 'R&D' tab at the top. See the 'Product Pipeline' and the 'Therapeutic Areas' sections on the left. You very well may be amazed at the medical possibilities. By the way, this company's stock, GWPH on the Nasdaq, is up about 10 fold in the past year or so. Those are real dollars betting on the potential medicines to be extracted from the cannabis plant. If nothing else, please take the time to scan just the table of contents from this 2006 research report on the therapeutic possibilities of cannabinoids. It may be information that would allow you to help a sick friend or relative, or possibly even yourself. http://pharmrev.aspe...9.full.pdf html A Glossary to Help in Deciphering the Research Studies Thanks to poster 'in vivo' at the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association board, here is a glossary of terms with wiki links. The research reports that I link to (below) use a lot of unfamiliar terms, at least to most of us. You might find this helpful. http://michiganmedic...44364-glossary/ Mentioned among many other maladies are diabetes, Parkinsons, arthritis, cancer, Alzheimers, asthma, IBS, hypertension, and psychiatric illness. This report is from 2006 and we have learned a lot since then. More research is desperately needed but it appears very promising that cannabis may be able to treat many illnesses. It makes some sense that many diseases that have confounded researchers over the past 75 years are linked to cannabinoids. Due to governments' prohibition of cannabis, research on the plant and cannabinoids have basically been forbidden for those same 75 years.

Be sure not to mix em up

It is the name of the plant. Cannabis Sativa and Cannabis Indica are the two main types. When it was used as medicine in US pharmacies it was called cannabis. There are plenty of pictures on the web of bottles of cannabis tincture manufactured by Eli Lilly and several other pharma companies still in existence today. I prefer to use the term as it starts people on a different mental track than does 'marijuana'. Check out the video (just above) and you will see how it can impact so many diseases. It will be worth your time.

Security, again you are very wrong. Do a little research on Dravet Syndrome or on glioma. People are uprooting their families to move to Colorado so their children can legally use this medicine. Some kids have 100 seizures in a day. With simple cannabis extract, they are down to 1 per week. Is that heeled ?? No, but with no research done on cannabinoids for so long, it damn sure is a proof of concept. Did you look at the http://www.gwpharm.com site? Glioma, or brain cancer, is being treated with cannabinoids even after every other modern treatment was exhausted... AND PEOPLE ARE SURVIVING. I have no reason to make this up. Take some time to read and watch and learn from the material out there. I found this YouTube video that was put together in April of this year. It pieces together segments from about a dozen different documentaries and talks about many recent studies on treating various diseases with medicinal cannabis. It provides a great explanation as to how cannabis can impact so many diseases. It is worth your time. You don't need to watch it all in one sitting. It is over an hour, if I recall. Security, having someone close to you with Multiple Sclerosis, it is important that you understand that cannabis is medicine. You do know that cannabis medicines were all throughout the US pharmacies in the early 1900's, right? Those people didn't know everything that we know today but they were smart enough to use something that worked rather than something that didn't. https://www.youtube....h?v=XfO_MpDm5kc

I am inclined to agree with those that commented on the article. Political obstructionists to medical cannabis, especially in states where the people have made it clear it is wanted, do have blood on their hands. Most often (see Chris Christie as an example) they remain willfully ignorant so that they don't have to confront the fact that they have been terribly wrong. Their bullheadedness has cost people a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering.

It is a hypothetical situation. Just answer the question rather than complaining that you won't like your own answer. What is the best solution to the hypothetical camping scenario? Also, arming everyone may very well deter crime. I have doubts but let's say that it does, The problem with arming everyone becomes all of the shooting that will happen just because people have tempers and people get drunk and people want to act tough and relationships go south and etc, etc. Most people would say that I was easy going and would be shocked to hear that I shot someone. Without a doubt there may be a handful of times in my life that I very well could have shot someone had I been armed. Also, where does it all end when everyone is armed? We'd have to arm the teachers and the bus drivers and we probably better arm the students just in case the bus driver snaps out. And when they develop new and better weapons, well, everyone must have one or they could easily be outgunned, right?

I surely don't think more are better but there are so many out there now that I think people should have the right to own one or two or three. I don't agree with the stockpiling 'in case the government wants to attack me' theory that promotes bigger and bigger arsenals. I don't think we need weapons that make it easier for the mentally unstable on their suicide mission to kill dozens either. Hunting, home protection, and defense against a realistic attack are all good reasons to own guns. Lots of weapons for sale seem to be offensive rather than defensive. Let's say that you are the lone adult that is supervising a group of 5 or 6 teen boys on a camping trip. One of the kids comes to you with a nasty welt he's gotten on his face. He says that he was shot with a BB gun that one of the other kids has smuggled in. What do you do to resolve the problem? Do you take the gun away and devise some punishment for the shooter? Or, would a better idea be to give all the boys BB guns so that they can be on equal footing with the shooter? Maybe .22's would put them in a superior position and then you could be sure that the BB gun owner wouldn't shoot at them anymore. Which solution would cause less injury to the campers as a group? If you were the adult in control, which would you choose? This is hypothetical. I know we can't take guns away from everyone. I get that. Ideally though, I don't think arming everyone is the best possible world.

I don't want to preach but there is something that tripped up a lot of patients in Michigan when the medical cannabis initiative passed here. Yes, it was a 2008 ballot initiative in Michigan that won 63% to 37% Anyway, be careful in discussions with your doctors. It sounds odd to say because generally they are such experts and we confide in them, but most doctors were taught only about the harmful effects of this in med school. Also, consider that most doctors were studious and weren't necessarily the most streetwise and so didn't learn a lot about cannabis growing up. Add in the fact that very few pharmaceutical companies are pushing cannabis based solutions. Doctors, with few exceptions, are not experts on cannabis based solutions. Many are very opposed. Don't talk about your usage or desire to use cannabis until you have felt them out a little. Maybe the old, 'I have this friend that was talking about using cannabis to treat...' would be a good approach. If you decide to try to have a frank discussion come armed with copies of research abstracts and copies of links to recent reports. Be prepared for resistance and I hate to say it, but be prepared to hear astounding ignorance stated very confidently. From their viewpoint I think they feel that they are the experts and so if they are not aware of the cannabis option, it is just some internet fluff or worse, an attempt to secure drugs from them. They may even label you a 'drug seeker'. Many patients found out the hard way here in Michigan that even though the state laws changed, the doctor or more often his/her practice or hospital, had an anti-cannabis policy. Many patients were dropped outright for admitting that they used cannabis to treat the same condition their doctor was treating. Others with doctor monitored opiate dependencies were forced into periodic pee tests and if testing positive for cannabis and/or negative for opiates, were cut off from their opiate prescriptions. Sounds insane but that was not uncommon at all.

Thanks J6P. I fear I may have set expectations way too high. lol

That is a great question and it varies tremendously by state. Some states are very easy to qualify and some very difficult. In the very difficult states it would probably turn out that 95% or so are in the program for medical reasons. In say California, I am unsure really but why let that stop me, eh? I would guess that maybe 40-50% are in it for medical purposes. In Michigan, I would say about 75-80% are legit. In Michigan, the average patient age is somewhere around 50 I believe. Many skeptics see a group of 20 somethings leaving a dispensary laughing and they think everyone is scamming. That isn't the case at all. I have met probably 100 other patients and I would say only 10-15% of the people I've met may have been shaky qualifiers. Actually, making that judgement of qualification based on the way someone looks at a moment in time is not really fair. Sick people don't really try to look sick when they are in public. They typically will try to put on their best face. The two subsets certainly intersect too. In other words, just because cannabis may help someone with cancer to maintain their appetite doesn't mean that that same patient may not indulge sometimes because they enjoy the sense of well being - the high. To flip it too, at some point the 20 something scammer comes to the realization that his knee injury may not hurt so bad after toking up with his buddies after the game. OMG, this stuff actually works! lol

That whole Syria-Iraq situation is really screwy. Lots of blame to go around. Who was that map maker back in the early 1900's that forced these people into nations with people they have despised for centuries? Those 'insurgents' that we were fighting in Iraq crossed into Syria. There we armed them and called them 'freedom fighters' for opposing Assad. Then they flee back from Syria under bombing from Assad's forces and we oppose them and are seemingly preparing to fight them again in Iraq. Geez, I miss those white hats and black hats like in the movies.

Buy Raytheon stock. I suspect there will be some demand for missile and missile defense systems. There sure are lots of people fighting around the world. Your assumption that it is our fault though is questionable, with the exception of Iraq. We'd like to think that because we are the most powerful country that we can control others. Well, we can exert some pressure and we often get our way with reasonable people, but we don't necessarily control everyone and we can't keep parties from fighting forever if for decades they have wanted to fight.

It seems a touch hypocritical of you to be throwing around the 'stoner' term when you, apparently every day, are ingesting mind altering anti-depressants. Doctor recommended, like medical cannabis, but somehow so different in your mind, eh? Let me tell you, it ain't really different at all, stoner.

I am not a doctor but I would like to make a public service announcement that could save you a great deal of time and money some day. If you are ever present with someone that has taken 'too much' cannabis, whether medical or otherwise, and they start to become panicky there is a simple phrase that will save you a trip to the Emergency Room. Repeat the following very true statement to the afflicted and to yourself: "No one has ever died from an overdose of cannabis. You have taken a strong dose but you just need to relax and the bad side effects will fade away soon." The person may appear as if they have overdosed. They may have but there is nothing they will do for you at the ER except to try to calm you and the patient down and have the patient relax until the uncomfortable effects wear off. They may give the patient a sedative if they are really freaking out. This reported increase in ER visits related to cannabis usage is generally newbie users getting too strong of a dose, fearing that they may OD and die, and going to the ER due essentially to an anxiety attack. Cannabis overdose should just result in falling asleep in the recliner. Stay calm.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23648372 Just in case you haven't seen this study, though it sounds like you are on top of this. Cannabis induces a clinical response in patients with Crohn's disease: a prospective placebo-controlled study. Naftali T1, Bar-Lev Schleider L, Dotan I, Lansky EP, Sklerovsky Benjaminov F, Konikoff FM. Author information Abstract BACKGROUND & AIMS: The marijuana plant Cannabis sativa has been reported to produce beneficial effects for patients with inflammatory bowel diseases, but this has not been investigated in controlled trials. We performed a prospective trial to determine whether cannabis can induce remission in patients with Crohn's disease. METHODS: We studied 21 patients (mean age, 40 ± 14 y; 13 men) with Crohn's Disease Activity Index (CDAI) scores greater than 200 who did not respond to therapy with steroids, immunomodulators, or anti-tumor necrosis factor-α agents. Patients were assigned randomly to groups given cannabis, twice daily, in the form of cigarettes containing 115 mg of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) or placebo containing cannabis flowers from which the THC had been extracted. Disease activity and laboratory tests were assessed during 8 weeks of treatment and 2 weeks thereafter. RESULTS: Complete remission (CDAI score, <150) was achieved by 5 of 11 subjects in the cannabis group (45%) and 1 of 10 in the placebo group (10%; P = .43). A clinical response (decrease in CDAI score of >100) was observed in 10 of 11 subjects in the cannabis group (90%; from 330 ± 105 to 152 ± 109) and 4 of 10 in the placebo group (40%; from 373 ± 94 to 306 ± 143; P = .028). Three patients in the cannabis group were weaned from steroid dependency. Subjects receiving cannabis reported improved appetite and sleep, with no significant side effects. CONCLUSIONS: Although the primary end point of the study (induction of remission) was not achieved, a short course (8 weeks) of THC-rich cannabis produced significant clinical, steroid-free benefits to 10 of 11 patients with active Crohn's disease, compared with placebo, without side effects. Further studies, with larger patient groups and a nonsmoking mode of intake, are warranted. ClinicalTrials.gov, NCT01040910.

THC without enough CBD to counterbalance the effects can make many people very anxious, to the point of having an anxiety attack. I believe that this is behind the preference for the whole plant extract. It typically contains CBD. It is also the chief reason many here claim to have gotten paranoid. They likely weren't used to a high THC, low CBD strain that they got into. As far as legislatures banning CBD, you misunderstood my point. The point I was trying to make is that legislatures are approving CBD compounds or CBD strains and again closing the door on the rest of the possibilities from the other cannabinoids in the plant. This was the mistake made with Marinol. They will now attempt to say, "If you need medical marijuana we have marinol and high CBD. You don't need the plant material".

Has your wife tried any cannabis topicals? Some can find relief by just rubbing in cannabis infused topical oils - coconut or olive oil for instance. They can provide near instant relief from muscle spasms for some. There are many recipes and how-to videos online. Also, assuming that marijuana refers to one medicine is a wide misconception. There are probably 1000 identified and recently bred strains of cannabis. Some may be 24% THC and 1% CBD along with varying percentages of the less studied cannabinoids. Some may be 50-50 and some may contain predominantly CBD with very little THC. In non-medical cannabis states it is difficult to find a consistant supply of any strain. That is certainly problematic but if you know anyone growing, I am certain you could work something out as far as uninterrupted supply of medicine. Do some more research and you likely could find a strain 'designed' for MS sufferers. Also, I have read of patients taking powerful cannabis concentrates at bedtime that can continue to be effective throughout the day without the fogginess.

Ahhhh, that is better. It is so nice to encounter a reasoned reply, Gary. Thank you. The only problem that I see with isolating the compounds is that the cannabinoids often seem to work better in concert, referred to as the 'entourage effect'. So while THC seems to help with nausea, most patients will prefer the effects of the whole plant (smoking, vaping, or otherwise ingesting the plant material) or a whole plant extract over pure THC found in Marinol. Our society made the mistake once before of isolating and synthesizing a compond from the plant - THC. They made Marinol and the anti cannabis folks said, 'there, if you need a cannabis medicine you have marinol. End of story". Well, now that research is picking up 20 years later, we are learning that many of these cannabinoids have potential benefits. If we allow the anti's to do the same thing with CBD, as is today being attempted in many conservative state legislatures, we may very well stifle cannabis research for another decade. The comparison to stem cells is a good one. I have to say though as I look down the Table of Contents from that research report mentioned above, researchers for pretty much all of those ailments still seem to be pursuing cannabis possibilities. nih.gov The site has a search box where one can enter multiple terms such as cannabinoid, 2014, etc. Be aware that there are conflicting studies. Also, as Sanjay Gupta of CNN has mentioned, until recently many US studies have been approved only if they were intended to show the harmful effects of using cannabis. Look for more recent studies.

Security: I don't even know where to start. There is so much wrong in your post. You seem to be willfully ignorant. Did you look at the article from the link that you just provided? If you did you would notice they mention many of the same medical benefits I mentioned earlier. Somehow you didn't absorb those from the article. Think about this for just a moment before you begin typing. If the cannabinoids can be helpful when extracted from cannabis might they also be effective while still a part of the cannabis? Addiction to cannabis can happen. Technically there are withdrawal symptoms upon quitting, a main criteria when defining addiction. Compared to many prescription drugs however, the withdrawal symptoms experienced when quitting are very, very mild. They are probably equivalent to giving up, say coffee. Do some research on kicking opiate based medicines or alcohol. People have died kicking those. Again take a second to consider that people are driving all around you while on their prescription medicines. Many of these people are technically addicted to very powerful medicines with side effects that often include drowsiness, blurred vision, dizziness, and impaired muscle coordination. Almost all medicines take a little getting used to, especially opiate medicines. Cannabis medicines are no different. Once a person has experienced the effects they can usually adapt and drive. If no one could drive while on medication in this country the roads would be pretty empty. It is unfortunate that you are unable to put yourself in another man's shoes, so to speak, and understand what constant high level pain can do to a person's life. I hope you are able to grin and bear it if and when it happens to you. Everyone has aches and pains as we age but some medical conditions can cause crippling pain. After a period of time of high level pain that generally prevents sleep, people will turn to medication. Few want to be dependent on pain medication but they cannot really interact with family and friends and after a time, the choices become pretty grim. The problem with the other powerful pain medicines is that they cause serious side-effects for many. The side effects from long term use of the cannabis medicines are much easier to withstand.

Here is the Table of Contents from the research report I mentioned above The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy Abstract ............................................................................... 390 I. Introduction ............................................................................ 390 II. The pharmacology of cannabinoids ....................................................... 391 A. Cannabinoid receptors and ligands ................................................. 391 B. Cannabinoid receptor signaling .................................................... 394 C. Endocannabinoids ................................................................ 396 III. The endocannabinoid system as therapeutic target in pathophysiological conditions ........... 398 A. Diseases of energy metabolism ........................................................ 398 1. Endocannabinoids and appetite regulation .......................................... 398 2. Endocannabinoids and peripheral energy metabolism ................................ 401 3. Obesity and associated metabolic abnormalities ...................................... 402 4. Cachexia and anorexia ............................................................ 404 B. Pain and inflammation ............................................................... 405 C. Central nervous system disorders ..................................................... 407 1. Neurotoxicity and neurotrauma .................................................... 407 2. Stroke ........................................................................... 408 3. Multiple sclerosis and spinal cord injury ............................................ 409 4. Movement disorders (basal ganglia disorders) ....................................... 411 a. Parkinson’s disease and levodopa-induced dyskinesia .............................. 412 b. Huntington’s disease ........................................................... 413 c. Gilles de la Tourette’s syndrome, tardive dyskinesia, and dystonia .................. 414 5. Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis ...................................................... 414 6. Alzheimer’s disease ............................................................... 414 7. Epilepsy ......................................................................... 415 8. Mental disorders ................................................................. 416 a. Schizophrenia ................................................................. 416 b. Anxiety and depression ......................................................... 417 9. Insomnia ........................................................................ 419 10. Nausea and emesis ............................................................... 420 11. Drug addiction and alcohol disorders ............................................... 420 a. Opiates ....................................................................... 421 b. Nicotine ....................................................................... 422 c. Cocaine ....................................................................... 422 d. Alcohol ....................................................................... 422 e. Psychostimulants .............................................................. 423 D. Cardiovascular and respiratory disorders .............................................. 423 1. Hypertension ..................................................................... 425 2. Circulatory shock ................................................................. 426 3. Myocardial reperfusion injury ...................................................... 427 4. Atherosclerosis ................................................................... 428 5. Asthma .......................................................................... 428 E. Eye disorders (glaucoma and retinopathy) .............................................. 429 F. Cancer ............................................................................. 430 G. Gastrointestinal and liver disorders ................................................... 431 1. Inflammatory bowel disease ....................................................... 433 2. Acute and chronic liver disease (hepatitis and liver cirrhosis) ......................... 433 H. Musculoskeletal disorders ............................................................ 435 1. Arthritis ......................................................................... 435 2. Osteoporosis ..................................................................... 436 I. Endocannabinoids and reproductive functions .......................................... 436 IV. Future directions ....................................................................... 441 Acknowledgments ....................................................................... 441 References ............................................................................. 441

Medical Cannabis has been legal in Michigan for several years. It can be a very effective medicine which has few side effects when compared to many prescription medicines. Anyone taking medication long term knows that you have to be able to tolerate the side effects of the medication in order for it to help. Cannabinoids are molecules found in cannabis. There are about 85 discovered so far, only 1 of which is the much feared THC. If you think that there are no medical benefits to cannabis beyond preventing nausea, you really need to read some more recent research because you truly could not be more mistaken. Cannabis is effective in treating so many medical ailments because the cannabinoid molecules from the plant are nearly identical to molecules created within our own bodies called endo-cannabinoids. Through recent research we have learned that the body creates an entire network of endo-cannabinoid molecules and cannabinoid receptors in order to transfer messages between cells. The similarity of plant and animal molecules is merely a coincidence of nature but one that allows the plant to fill in and to supply the missing messenger molecules if needed. When there is a disruption in the body's ability to create endocannabinoids, important signals don't get through and a whole host of health problems can develop. The missed message may be to stop feeding a cell that is scheduled to die. If the cannabinoid molecule is not present to pass that signal along, cells may not die when they are designed to and they can divide and metastasize out of control leading to a cancerous tumor. The message that is missing may be to slow down the number or rate of signals to a brain or peripheral nerve cell. Perhaps they are overloaded. This is what can happen with epileptic seizures or chronic pain from damaged nerves. Missing messages can affect nearly every organ in the body. See the website from GW Pharmaceuticals http://www.gwpharm.com and go the 'R&D' tab at the top. See the 'Product Pipeline' and the 'Therapeutic Areas' sections on the left. You very well may be amazed at the medical possibilities. By the way, this company's stock, GWPH on the Nasdaq, is up about 10 fold in the past year or so. Those are real dollars betting on the potential medicines to be extracted from the cannabis plant. If nothing else, please take the time to scan just the table of contents from this 2006 research report on the therapeutic possibilities of cannabinoids. It may be information that would allow you to help a sick friend or relative, or possibly even yourself. http://pharmrev.aspe...9.full.pdf html Mentioned among many other maladies are diabetes, Parkinsons, arthritis, cancer, Alzheimers, asthma, IBS, hypertension, and psychiatric illness. This report is from 2006 and we have learned a lot since then. More research is desperately needed but it appears very promising that cannabis may be able to treat many illnesses. It makes some sense that many diseases that have confounded researchers over the past 75 years are linked to cannabinoids. Due to governments' prohibition of cannabis, research on the plant and cannabinoids have basically been forbidden for those same 75 years.

Here are a couple: - don't give him a checkdown option under 10 yards upfield - Tell him if he wants to stay in the game, on passing plays he either passes the ball for more than 10 yards or he MUST run it himself. Maybe a few good pops and he'll decide throwing it doesn't sound so bad. Any others? Brilliant replies only, please.

Yes, The NFL Network has them live against the Bears this Saturday

We know what he can do when healthy...probably better than most teams. If he's not looking for superstar money, I would take a healthy Crowell back in a heartbeat.....longer than a 1 year contract too.

I am psyched, Big Cat. He's what, 89, and the man has still got the wheels!!