SectionC3
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Posts posted by SectionC3
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4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:
If we wanted a #1 the only ones that were guarantees were the top 3. Everyone after that is a crap shoot. None of them are coming in as day 1 starters as the #1 WR.
This. I'll qualify it by saying that maybe it was possible to convert some of the draft capital into a veteran upgrade at the position. But otherwise it's a guessing game.
The Coleman pick has grown on me. I'd still like them to add another body to the WR room, if for no other reason that it may increase the odds that they hit on a WR pick this year.
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3 minutes ago, mannc said:
It tells me it’s likely another trade at 33. Getting the first pick of round 2 gives you almost 24 hours to make a deal, instead of 10 minutes.
I don't doubt that Beane is working to see what existing player he can get for that pick. The problem we have is the cap, but maybe a June 1 designation in any such transaction makes that piece a bit easier.
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4 minutes ago, Aurelius said:
Frankly I think Adonai Mitchell is probably the guy we wanted since Thomas went off the board. When we found out other teams would trade up and weren’t gonna take Mitchell, we agreed to trade down.
We aren’t in the market for a small wide receiver like either of the Xavier’s, which were the only two off the board since we could have drafted potentially.
Mitchell is 6’4”+ and 4.3 nastiness. Another megatron type but faster. We lost nothing by trading down, only gained more and better picks.
I bet we go with Adonai tomorrow with first pick and we significantly bolstered our draft position by drafting down twice. Bottom line is we don’t trade down if our guy at any position is there. If he isn’t and we can still get him lower, then it’s money for us.
I don't know how much time they spent with him pre-draft. They met with Franklin multiple times. Also met with McConkey.
Tonight was puzzling, but Beane has earned the benefit of the doubt. I don't doubt that he has a plan.
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Just now, BringBackFergy said:
I don’t want him in my kitchen.
Good point. He's probably eat all of your nachos and then fling a little saliva or phlegm around with those odd jaw contortions.
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Dallas Turner. Hands down. Between the nachos and whatever it was that he was doing with his mouth, that guy strikes me as someone who I do not want doing my taxes.
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1 hour ago, SCBills said:
Xavier Worthy at 28 and Javon Baker on Day 2 would completely revamp our WR room.
Will we double dip? Doubt it, but we'd have a YAC monster in the slot with Samuel, inside/outside flex with Shakir, speed outside in Worthy and a big body outside recevier in Baker.
Locked up for:
2 years Shakir
3 years Samuel
4 years Baker
5 years Worthy
I’m with you on everyone but Baker. And I’d be fine with Baker - I just see that guy as fungible. Someone larger, with a mean streak, who can crack down here and there and be a bit of an enforcer on the field while breaking a tackle here and there as well. Worthy to me is the more important piece. After that, I don’t care of it’s Baker, Legette, Mitchell, Coleman, whatever. I want a big piece to slip into the crew you just mentioned.
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9 minutes ago, SCBills said:
I'd actually be ok with Worthy at 28.
I still think we need another legit investment at WR on Day 2 (maybe early Day 3) or a FA addition when Tre's money clears, but Worthy's speed outside with Shakir/Samuel underneath and their YAC ability would be a very different look next year from the Diggs/Davis years of zero YAC.
I was against it initially because I think we need a larger human who can break a tackle or two and punish teams who want to lay back in cover 2 or cover 3 on us. But I’ve come around on the idea in the last couple of weeks. I’d still like to see us come out of this with a bigger body at the position, but if the FO decides it’s Worthy, I won’t get on the internet and complain anonymously because they’ve earned the benefit of the doubt.
1 hour ago, SCBills said:The thing that I can't wrap my head around is the development of Championship DNA.
And maybe that just comes with winning, and we have to get over the hump to do so.
McDermott owns 13 seconds. I don't who to blame for CIN.. that just seems like an absolute mess all around leading into that game.
Then this year.. injury luck. EVERY. YEAR. KC stays healthy at key positions and we either have big injuries or a depleted roster. KC's WR room.. which couldn't catch a cold all year, played great against us.. and pretty much everyone in the postseason. Conversely, we had to rely on Sherfield due to injury (Beane to blame for WR issues) and he clearly did not step up to the moment. And Diggs.. supposed to be our guy to offset Kelce. And he gets clamped, fumbles, drops passes. Playoff non-factor in big games year in/year out.
And alright, those two are gone. Who's our Jones? Maybe Oliver?... Oliver dominated the Steelers in the WC Game, but then got owned by KC.
What's it going to take to get people to elevate with Josh Allen when it matters?
I blame a certain Instagam “influencer” for having an unannounced yard sale the evening before the game. Nobody I’ve seen post here has the other piece of that episode, and it is bonkers.
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13 minutes ago, section122 said:
Archie and peyton manning?
Clay and clay mathews?
Only 2 I can think of.
Just off the top of my head -
Luck
Hasselbeck (Matt)
Tatupu
Edmunds (Tremaine)
Heyward
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4 minutes ago, sven233 said:
All this talk about trading up and going big game hunting is fun, but I am not sure how practical or likely it is. We may want to do it, but from 28, it is easier said than done as we all know. If we are really serious about it, it may take a couple of different trades to accomplish it. We may have to do something like we did in 2018 and get into the 12-16 range first and then get into the top 10 from there. But this is a trade, at least the first part, that would have to be done before the draft. I don't think this is the type of move you can do during the draft. You would probably have to talk to the teams in the top 10 and find out how far they are willing to drop. If you can work out something for 28, wonderful, otherwise you have to see where you would have to get to, and have a deal already in place if you can get into the range they tell you to. It might be complicated to do, but obviously possible because it has been done in the past.
That said, is it the right thing to do? I will say, I could see this team falling in love with Odunze. He has great size, can run, is physical, and can separate. He reminds me so much of Moulds and he would be the perfect #1 WR for us, especially in the colder weather games. But what is having this one particular player worth? While I am not necessarily opposed to making the move, it is hard parting with so much capital. I always ask myself what would the best player in the NFL at a certain position be worth. QBs are different, because you have to have one, but what about WR?
Justin Jefferson is probably the best out there right now. Contract aside, how much would you be willing to give up for JJ? A first? Two firsts? A first and a second? More? Now, add in the fact that he will be getting more than $30 million a year. How does that change things? To me, that lessens the value and makes parting with more assets to get 5 years of cost controlled production worth a bit more. Regardless on where you settle in at, going up for Odunze, or one of the other big 3, is going to cost you a lot more than what it would for the best WR in the league. It will probably cost 28, a 4rh round pick this year, next year's first and probably at least a 2nd and 3rd next year as well. Who knows.....it may cost both seconds next year. It is just a ton to give up. Now, if you were to work out some things with a couple of current players, that might help ease the pain a little, but any way you slice it, you will be giving up more than you would for the current best WR in the league for a rookie that you have no idea how good he's going to be, but is under a cost controlled contract. For those that want to do it, I completely understand it and can definitely make the argument for it. If it happens, obviously all eyes will be on the cost......and then we will immediately forget about it and celebrate the fact that one of the big 3 are on our team with Josh Allen at QB! Worry about next year, next year......
Whether or not this is actually even being discussed or not, we don't know. It is smokescreen season and I really tend not to believe much of anything out there. Do I think we're at least making the calls to see what it would cost? Yes. But that would be the only responsible thing to do. That is literally Beane's job to turn over every stone and look at every option. But how serious are these conversations? We might never know. Obviously, if it happens, we will know that the conversations were serious, but if it doesn't, I would expect if they do acknowledge the talks, that they would downplay the talks no matter how serious they are.
See post upthread about my pondering the value of Jefferson. I realize the goal in maintaining salary structure, etc., but it’s possible that at some point there’s more value in trading for the big ticket, established wideout than there is on spending a fortune in draft capital on a likely, but still uncertain, if-come.
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7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
The problem getting into the top 3 is those 3 teams all want Quarterbacks. Both Washington and New England have taken calls and politely declined from what I hear. Maybe if the wrong one is left at #3 New England's stance on that changes on draft night. They might only like 1 guy but while there is a chance he is there they don't want to move. But realistically I think #4 is where Minnesota will end up getting. That wouldn't need a receiver thrown in and I think they'd be loathed to do it. If they end up needing to help out a rookie having Jefferson and Addison to use is no bad start.
I completely agree with all of this. My guess is that NE likes two of the top three, or one of the latter two thirds of that analysis, and they might be open to the AJ Smith model of loading up the rest of the roster now and plugging in the QB in the next year or two.
On the receivers point, I agree with the odds of success favoring a young QB with that pair in place. But, if the Vikings need to generate extra draft capital to make the move, and if they feel strongly enough about the guy they're moving for, flipping one of those guys to get it done isn't an outlandish idea. Jefferson's intermittent friction with Cousins is in the back of my mind on this one. If that guy didn't like Cousins, and he's approaching extension territory, then I wonder how he's going to do with Darnold as a journeyman placeholder, or with Daniels/Maye/McCarthy/whomever trying to figure things out on the fly.
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I'll add this. I'm wrestling with Jefferson's value this morning. Is it a pair of ones? Is it a 1 + 2? Maybe a 1 + a future 2? Or could it be as low as a 1 given what is likely to be an enormous financial commitment? I don't know. From the Bills' perspective, adding a guy with that type of salary is completely contrary to what they appear to be trying to do after getting Diggs out of the locker room. But if I'm Beane . . . it doesn't hurt to check on the price.
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7 hours ago, HappyDays said:
If we do this, I hope we trade up again in the 2nd for Coleman or Legette or Polk. Pair the speedy small WR with the big bodied contested catch specialist. I don't care if it means we have barely any picks on day three and have to give up one of our 2nds next year. Get two physical studs that win in different ways and put them on the field with Josh Allen for the next 5+ years, and the rest will figure itself out.
I'm good with this idea, particularly with how defenses are likely to play us next year.
I'll also add that Beane seems to be a "go big or go home" guy, and he understands that sometimes paying a little more gets the buyer a lot more. I keep on getting back to the idea that he's going to use that Minnesota pick next year to package up and get a big fish, be it Odunze, Nabers, or maybe a known quantity . . . like, say, Metcalf or Jefferson.
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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:
I agree with most of this though I'm not sure I buy that the Vikings are going to suck quite that bad. That pick is more likely 40-45 than 35-40 I reckon. 35 would mean they have the third worst record in the league I just don't see that. They still have a very good oline, two excellent receivers, a good tight end.... okay QB is a complete unknown but I'd be surprised if they were total suckitude with their talent.
I agree with all of this. I just wonder if maybe one of those receivers goes to provide extra capital to get where they want to be. PFT suggested using Jefferson to get to #2 last night. I'll make it in a roundabout way - perhaps they use Jefferson to get draft capital to use to flip to get to 2 or 3. Or maybe Addison tickles the fancy of someone to move up. Or maybe it's Addison that gets moved to acquire the extra draft capital. Could 11, 23 and (for argument's sake) 28 get them where they want to be? I don't see how that doesn't get them to at least #3.
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10 hours ago, HappyDays said:
I suspect he'll win the poll because everyone knows safety is a need. I just personally have no interest in drafting a safety anywhere in the top 75 picks. It's too easy to find good players at that position later in the draft. Especially in McDermott's defense we don't need studs at the position, just smart players that can learn the defense and stick to their zones.
I'm not convinced Hyde is done, either. And there's still the Simmons one-year option floating around. Completely agree.
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2 hours ago, muppy said:
greetings.
My thinking is that by fleeing the accident he did save himself the DUI charges that he allegedly could have had otherwise. It REEKS of being circumstantial he was partying when this all went down
So he did get over on that. How much penalty he saved himself by doing that is an interesting thought.
Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the circumstances leading up to the collision. If the DA can prove that he was boozing/smoking, and then driving erratically immediately thereafter, then he might have a problem with any crime analogous to what’s called common law DWI in New York State.
1 hour ago, Logic said:
Right. But in this case, Rice has admitted full guilt, turned himself in, is fully cooperating, and is going the total contrition, "throw himself on the mercy of the court" route.
In these types of cases, it's my understanding that prior legal history and a stance of remorse both play big parts, and Rice has been in absolutely no prior legal trouble, and is at least feigning (if not actually feeling) remorse.
At the end of the day, I STILL expect this to be plead down to lesser misdemeanor chargers, a hefty fine and financial restitution paid, no jail time, and no more than four games suspension. Likely just two.
That's my prediction and I'm stickin to it!It’s not unheard of for something like this to get resolved through a plea to a misdemeanor, or to multiple misdemeanors. If that’s your definition of special treatment, then . . . We simply may disagree there. I don’t think it’s outrageous to suggest no jail time for something like this. Based on what little I know he probably deserves a little alone time, but a big fine, probation with some onerous terms (no drinking, IID, no drugs, no excessive speeding tix, maybe even a curfew), and perhaps some community service probably does the trick, too.
The problem for Rice remains that there’s a lot of people looking at this case now, and he has a raft of pending felonies that the DA may not wish to resolve through a plea to a misdemeanor. So this is going to take a little work.
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On 4/5/2024 at 10:02 PM, Logic said:
I'm on record here as agreeing with that take.
I believe a plea to a lesser charge, a fine, and minimal league discipline is the most likely outcome. I do not believe for a second that Rice will go to jail, because that's not how the American justice system tends to work for rich athletes.
Still, the possibility of jail time exists, and to pretend that it doesn't is silly.Yes and no. Yes, they probably get a few more breaks than would others. But when something egregious happens (like this), or when the star athlete “big times” an officer, they get treated just like everyone else. Maybe a little more strictly, actually, because the eyes of the public then are upon them. For example, last year around here a certain mercurial star player acted like a jerk one too many times and found out the hard way that he’s no different from everyone else.
11 minutes ago, Doc said:Hard to get away with a slap on the wrist with 8 felonies.
Yeah, that’s gonna take some work to get to slap on a wrist territory. It’s not impossible, but it’s an issue. Particularly in view of the fact that there are a lot of “eyes” now on this case.
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No. I didn't watch it. Once I realized how much better then NBA is than college basketball, the college game was ruined for me.
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8 hours ago, SCBills said:
I’m closest to A, but it’s a little too aggressive for how I feel.
I was on his side at first (post-CIN). I think he might have some valid annoyances with this team/coach/QB.
But then his play didn’t match his mouth, he fell flat in the playoffs… again… and went right back to his cryptic nonsense, while forcing us to eat 31M in dead cap.
Let’s just say I’m over it, been over it, glad he’s gone. 🤡
I agree with all of this, but I'll add that he had his own nonsense going on last year and he was a tiresome distraction to a lot of people in the building. Death by a signifiant number of paper cuts. I feel like I'm constantly getting new stories about this guy. It was time for him to go.
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Just now, SCBills said:
I think we draft a guy (or two) and then potentially get involved with a Hopkins-type situation this summer if someone like that becomes available.
Im not sure I see us doing a Diggs trade all over again, but Aiyuk would be eerily similar.
I think they moved in large part because they got sick of his nonsense (scab-scratching with Josh, storming out on McDermott, chronic lateness, refusing to enter the game against NE, idiot assistant arguing over bringing his makeup bag into the locker room, etc.), and in part because they'd rather have a cost-controlled 1 or 1A WR with Josh getting big bucks and the talent pool in this draft. It's the way to go. So I'm with you. Maybe OBJ on a reasonable deal after June 1, the rookie(s) we draft, and any we go.
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1 hour ago, Aimee75 said:
NateGeary sucks!! He is literally going onto social media and blaming whatever the alleged "incident" Josh had before the Bengals game, and blaming that situation for the downfall of the friendship and Diggs wanting to leave.
I don't know what went down, if anything went down(rumors of course are Josh cheated and his ex destroyed their house etc) but is that really an excuse for Diggs to be pissed off for a year+ over this, and a game(Bengals game) that I don't think The Bills were winning, and I don't blame Josh for the loss.
Literally dragging Josh and bringing horrible attention to him to prop Diggs up. It's gross.
I’m not at all involved with these guys but, from what I know, there’s truth to what I believe to be Diggs’s sentiment that Josh had to get his act together in 2023. That said, there’s also truth to the point that Diggs acted like a supreme a-hole this year. In the end, it doesn’t matter. Diggs is gone and on we go.
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1 hour ago, PBF81 said:
Thanks for a decent response!!
It is a somewhat complex analysis to be sure, with a bunch of variables. Here's the thing, that's not Allen's strong suit. Wouldn't it seem logical to play to his strong suit in the interests of getting all that we can from him, instead of trying to turn him into a game-managing ball-control passer? That seems patently illogical.
Last season, 9 of Allen's TD passes were 20+ yards. Without looking, and knowing stats from years of analyzing the NFL, I'd venture to say that easily that's more than any QB playing today and likely even way back. 15 of his 29 were 15 yards+. 19 were double-digit TDs.
Let's contrast that with Mahomes, considered to be the best in the game today and since Brady. Mahomes had 3 of 27 over 20 and 5 in double-digits.
It doesn't add up. Call it The Process or whatever, but things are not aligning with what they've said since they drafted Allen. They drafted him for his athletic ability and ability to make every throw and for his strong arm, right. But you're suggesting that they're now trying to turn him into something contrary to that.
Call me crazy, but good coaches take their strength(s) and figure out how to shove them down the opponents' throats. Belichick didn't try to put a cap on Brady, neither is Reid trying to put a cap on Mahomes. But it seems that McD, via Brady now, is trying to do that with Allen.
The types of receivers we have, whatever their design by McBeane, are what we have because that's how we've planned. Just as they say your as good as your record says you are, so too, your roster is as good as you've made it.
In desperately looking to find some sort of plan or methodology here, all that anyone can offer is to blindly trust The Process, but seemingly not realizing that this Process isn't even identifiable for the most part and has otherwise never been articulated as to what it is. And now on the cusp of us going from one of the league's best passing teams to some version of the Ravens. Allen's better than Jackson, but not if he's not going to be used to his strengths.
We seem to be taking a square peg and trying to force it into a round hole.
I look at the KC playoff game and keep thinking if we had one bigger receiver I’d take the layups all day long and let him beat on those corners and let the corners make the tackle. Deep stuff comes form that - wear them down, get them creeping, and hit the shot (unless it’s to Diggs, who dropped the shot it took them the whole game to set up).
But your points about having ann intermediate or deep game are valid. We have probably the only quarterback in the league who can hit Diggs in Detroit on Thanksgiving. And that Shakir route that missed against KC in the playoffs is a throw that most wouldn’t even attempt. So there’s a logic in leaning into that too. I just want to have the ability to play and punish through the short game if we’re going to see the steady diet of two high again next year.
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17 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:
The bad energy he brought to the huddle wears on everyone. It gets in the qbs head.
Players like Stef are wonderful when you're winning, but they tear a team down just as fast when things aren't going well.
Well said.
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9 minutes ago, Sweats said:
I'm fairly certain you can only do it once......if you try it a 2nd time, the time stays on the clock and the play is played-over on the same down.
Yes. Exactly right.
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2 minutes ago, papazoid said:
the bills will absolutely replace diggs. we will have another WR1 to get excited about.
vegas says the bills are a Top 5 team.....and likely to remain that way as long as Josh is healthy.
COACHING is what's holding this team back.
McClappity isnt even smart enough to run 13 seconds off the clock to close out a game.
Squibb the kickoff (run 3 seconds off clock)
1st down - instead of laying 15 yards off kelce and tyreek....you do the exact opposite. get up on the line and deliberately mug them. commit a 5 yard penalty (run another 2-3 seconds off clock)
1st down (2nd play) - repeat penalty (run more time off)
1st Down (3rd play) - do it again
1st Down (likely final play - defend a hail mary
This. All day long. That’s my beef with 13 seconds.
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1 hour ago, PBF81 said:
Diggs should be productive not in the slot where Brady had him playing often. It's difficult to envision that wasn't a huge part of Diggs' discontent. If he returns to his usual productivity it will tell us a lot.
The concern for Allen which I have yet to see anyone mention, apart from the fact that if he only averages what he did under Brady, he's headed for more of a 2019 passing season rather than his recent ones, is that he's not a high-percentage short passing QB. That's far from his forte. But those are the WRs he's now saddled with unless someone steps up to provide what Diggs has provided over the past four seasons. Shakir seems to be out best prospect for that right now which isn't exactly reassuring.
It's all but a given that we need to draft a WR at 28th, and possibly at 60th too, or maybe a trade up in the 2nd as a safety valve.
While Diggs may not have put up great numbers under Brady, he still drew coverage of some sort. As many that have covered this trade have pointed out, which should be obvious, we don't currently have a WR that's any opposing DC is concerned about in the matchup category. That's an issue. And all a mere three weeks prior to the Draft.
I get the concern about turning him into a ball control passer, but I wonder if that’s the way to trend a bit more given how defenses play him. We’ve seen a ton of two-high shell, and maybe the approach to that is to run the ball (Cook is dynamic) and get it to guys who can break a few tackles (Shakir) or do something on a bubble.
I completely agree with the point that we cannot abandon a deep game. I’m also of the mind that YAC is overblown, and that if we have guys catching the ball 15 yards downfield with their backs to the end zone I’m totally find with that. But that type of passing game probably isn’t going to be available with the way teams are playing us. So I’m all about getting guys who can break a tackle or run a corner over on completions underneath the shell.
Tim Graham article on Kim Pegula and Bills ownership
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
It’s a very sad situation. It goes to show that all of the money in the world can’t buy the things that have the most value—health, love, family, etc. There but for the grace of God go all of us. I’m sorry that they—and others similarly situated—have to endure this.