Tipster19
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"Relax Lee Harvey; Cleveland and New England are not in cahoots."
Said the blindman.
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While there is nothing wrong with having friendly associates in this league, but would two different teams working in unison for each other's welfare be allowed? I would hope not. This little Belichick entourage has raised my suspicion a little the last couple of years. When they were going to the Super Bowls the last few years and more and more were being made about their coordinators, I sometimes wondered about a little friendly inside trading. Thank goodness Weiss went to the college ranks. I don't think I could handle him floating around somewheres in the league. This Crennel and Saban is enough. The one good thing I will say though, it's probably a good thing that they are all in the AFC. Maybe not at first but within due time Moe, Larry, and Curley should be bumping heads on the way to a common prize.
Well back to the inspiration of this post. Apparently Cleveland's Crennel is interested in obtaining back-up QB Rohan Davey so he can compete with QB Trent Dilfer. This will be based on if New England is targeting a quarterback and that player falls to them in a round that they are comfortable with.
Now, I wonder, does this seem a little too much an open book on a common goal? It seems to be very revealing, especially so early. I also wonder if they can ping pong with players and draft picks so they can aid and abet each other's goals. What I mean is that during the draft one team takes a player at a certain position or slot so that it could possibly alter the sequence of the following players.
It's early but like I said, keep an eye on that Cleveland/New England duo. I just don't trust them.
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I totally agree with you jahnyc. It's not even about his replacement. He's just a good, flat-out player. Why don't we just keep him? Teams want a great Cb, we got one. Add in the fact that this guy is even a great STer. What else would you want from a CB? He needs to stay a Bill. I don't care what the compensation is for him.
I LOVE trades and speculating, but there's not a pick or player in this draft that would tempt me to trade Nate. I know I posted a speculation about him being involved in a trade but it wasn't my desire for him. It was a reflection on rumors that were being said.
As far as Winfield is concern, I wasn't crazy about him being traded but the guy really didn't want to be here. I don't think this is the case with Nate. For the sake of just rooting for a player and a team, let's hope that Buffalo does the right thing and keep Nate in Bills country for a long time.
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Oops, I have to mention a disclaimer. After I posted this I read after the fact that Albany,n.y. alluded to this very thought on another post. I apologize for repeating your prediction Albany,n.y. His response was on the post "So the real question is....Kenyatta Walker or L.J. Shelton". Kudos to Albany for his creative insight. At least one good thing happen about making this post, it's I'm not crazy for thinking these thoughts!
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Excellent point Albany. I'm impressed with your insight. I just made a post on this very thought. I owe you an apology, I didn't see this until after I made my post. I think this crazy thing just may have a chance of happening!
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Ijust have to ask. Does this seem possible? Would we really trade Clements? Does Barber fill the position adequately? With McNally, do we need to pick a O-lineman this early? How about some input on this scenario from the Buffalo faithful.
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Multiple teams are rumored in the TH talks. Washington's DC Gregg Williams wants Nate Clements. Buffalo is interested in OT Jammal Brown. The Bills are without a 1st rd pick/early 2nd rd pick. A lot of action going on here. So how does Donahoe put it all together? Look at the past and current tendencies of GM Tom Donahoe and you might make sense of it. But boy, what a Rubik's cube!
Washington's DC Gregg Williams drafted RCB Nate Clements. The 'Skins in the last few years have lost CB Champ Bailey and Fred Smoots. They are very young in their secondary with the exception of 1 or 2 aging veterans. They currently hold the #9 pick overall in this year's draft. Oh, did I mention that a couple of days ago that there were whispers of Washington trading out or down in the 1st rd for a veteran CB? Hold that thought for a minute.
Tampa recently jumps in the TH sweepstakes. The point that Buffalo fans should not overlook is that the trade apparently does not involve draft pick(s). If you look back at the Gruden era, you'll noticed that Chucky has continuously run off Tony Dungy's veterans. Does the axe keep on swinging?
Donahoe's secondary is entrenched with, should I say, seasoned veterans. Nate Clements is approaching the end of his contract. Let me ask you this, what do you think Donahoe will do? Resign Clements for big dollars? Better yet, let me ask Antoine Winfield, Jonas Jennings and Pat Williams. TD rarely resigns his FAs. I don't know why, but he doesn't. He'll trade like hell or pick-up FAs by the truckload, but for some reason when one of his players gets to the last year of their contract and no talks have been mentioned, then they are as good as gone.
Buffalo has no 1st rd pick. That's got to be killing Tom. He's not even remotely close to a early 2nd rd pick. I'd say that would make his hair turn gray, but it's too late for that. So why in the world would he even be talking to OT Jammal Brown? Because this maniac is going to show everybody again that he's a natural born world shaker, that's why.
Looking at all these swirling rumors, I think I have to reaccess my thoughts and opinions on this possible scenario(s). It's a shocker and I'm not sure that I like or agree with it. So with no further ado, here I go.
1) Buffalo trades RB Travis Henry straight up for Tampa's RCB Ronde Barber.
2) Buffalo then trades RCB Nate Clements to the Redskins for their 9th pick and maybe, just maybe an additional late rd pick.
3) Buffalo then selects OT Jammal Brown with the 9th pick in the draft.
Donahoe did say that we needed to upgrade our offense and we would still have our 2nd rd pick at #55. What we would do with this pick is beyond me. At this point you could make a case for either side of the ball. Obviously the best player available would be selected here.
I know that this sounds radical and I'm not correlating this thought as well as I would like to but it's very late. I just wanted to share this idea. Hopefully it can make sense for some of you and not just to me.
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What I wouldn't do is trade Henry for Arizona's 3rd rd pick (#95-last in the rd) in anyway, shape or form. Here's my wish list.
a) Trade Henry for Tampa's 3rd rd pick (#91) and swap for each other's 2nd rders. Buffalo's 2nd rder is #55 and Tampa's is #36.
b) Trade Henry for Tampa's 2nd rder outright.
c) Trade Henry with Arizona for LJ Shelton and swap for each other's 2nd rders. Buffalo's is #55 and Arizona's is #44. I simply am not too excited about acqiring LJ, I just don't think he'll be able to crack our starting line-up. I'd rather have a higher pick than getting a back-up.
* I'm not including any scenarios with Philly for the sole reason that I don't believe that they are really interested. My understanding is that we have been initiating the talks. If Philly is really in the picture, than I think that they would make the best trading partner of all. The possibilities with them would command the highest compensations due to all the draft picks that they have.
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I agree. There's Matt Jones and Vincent Jackson that we could get with a 2nd, maybe a 3rd rd pick. No, we need to address the O-line, DT and you know what, LB Barrett Ruud wouldn't be a bad pick-up somewheres in the 2nd rd.
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I think that Tampa does one of two things. Either they take one of the three RBs with their 5th pick or take WR Mike Williams and then make a trade with us for Henry. I don't believe for a NY second that they are trying to move up for a QB or for WR Braylon Edwards.
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In all my posts there was only one scenario where I suggested we get into the 1st rd. In that post I said we should trade up to a early 2nd rd and then use that early 2nd rd pick and couple it with a player (like a Ryan Denney) and trade this package to someone like the Colts who pick 29th in the 1st rd. If this can't happen and we stay with just having a early 2nd rder, then I still would have no problem selecting Castillo. As a alternate thought maybe Matt Jones would have to be considered. This would address a WR/TE/H-back/slash player. This would be solely based on what Mularkey would consider more of a position of importance. No matter what happens, I would hate to lose C Jason Brown in the mix.
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I truly think Tampa will be the one that we trade with. The swapping of the 2nd rders and getting one of their 3rd rd picks (#71 & #91) would be fantastic. Would this be fair compensation?
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Ooh, I'm back. That was real funny, Sound n Fury. You know, I kinda like that ghost of George Allen thing. That's pretty original. sfladave1, to be honest, I didn't think it thru that far about having more $$$ to resign/extend our future FAs. That is some real good insight.
Last year we traded our 1st rd pick this year (and 2 other picks from last year's draft, which by the way, I think that we way over paid) and Donahoe is hailed as being a genius. I suggest a similiar idea and I get some guy posting a smiley face slapping it's forehead. Are you serious? Does anyone really think that we got fair market value for Losman? I don't. We paid the premium, but I guess we had too.
Our next year's 1st rd pick is guaranteed to be no higher than #1 and no lower than #32. Why in the world would we even have to think that we would have to add anything else for Philly's 2nd rd pick? I'm not looking to get into this year's 1st rd.
This is a real solid draft at the 2nd to 3rd rd level. I don't think picking our 1st pick at 55 is going to be a big contribution. We have not even made the play-offs in how long? Do people really think that we can just stroll along and take our sweet loving time? Get real! Do you realize who our GM is? Probably one of the gutsiest guys that I can think of. Why in the world would anybody would think that he's going to be lackadaisial. Hey, I'll be the 1st to admit that I'm more than likely way off base on this trade scenario, but do expect something big from Donahoe again in this year's draft.
If we were to receive the 35th pick and still trade Henry for, hopefully, a 2nd rd pick or at worse a 3rd rd pick, then I would say that Buffalo had a successful draft. Add in the fact that we also will be picking at the 55 slot and one can easily see how strong of a draft this would be. We didn't even come close to "mortgaging our future". All the while we still have the Nate Clements issue. How about we make him our 1st rd pick next year, either with us or for someone else.
If we infused this current roster with 4 quality picks by the mid 3rd rd in this year's draft, then how much would this team be lacking going into next year's draft?
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Then trade our next year 1st rounder. Recieve today and pay tomorrow. Philly has the #35 pick. They love to accumulate picks and they can afford to be patient. We already used our 1st rd pick this year, so why not defer the payment? Recouping this pick is possible but time is needed to work this option out. Here's a few results that would be beneficial.
1) We are a team that still has needs to get to the next level. Get the players now not later.
2) Acquiring the needed player(s) to improve will result in more success for the season. The more successful we are now will result in a lower 1st rd pick for next year.
3) We have a future bargaining chip in Nate Clements or maybe some other player(s). If this is not an option for whatever reason then worse case scenario is that we can do it all over again.
4) With earlier and extra pick(s), we should invest them on the offensive side of the ball. We already started the youth movement process here and this would finish it off. The age would be left primarily on the defensive side of the ball (the safety and linebacker positions in particular).
I'm at work and just got interrupted. Like this post or not I'm going to finish this later.
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It's never good making a decision after playing with an eight ball. Don't go back to it and find a good rehab facility.
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As a Bills fan, I would like to see this happen. I'm not totally convinced that we trade with the Cardinals but to keep this option open I would think that it's imperative for Alexander to be removed from the market. Could Arizona be tempted to just outright trade their 2nd rd pick for a veteran RB? I think so. Shelton is not a bargaining chip, not even for Buffalo. I saw a response on another post that if we trade with the Cardinals, it would be for an outright pick and not the swapping of picks and Shelton. I would have to tend to agree with this thinking. Donahoe is looking for draft picks. In a draft that is rich in 2nd and 3rd rd players, an extra pick in these rds would be of more use.
The Eagles, with all their conservative ways, are known to trade up in the draft. I reviewed some scenarios with what it would take to also move into the very early part of the 1st rd and the cost would be too much for them. The only way for them to would be to add a player with some of their picks The elite 3 RBs would be cost prohibitive. With the acquisition of Alexander, they could be tempted to move up earlier so they can also add a top flight WR. Not early enough for Edwards or Williams, but maybe for Troy Williamson or Mark Clayton. Washington would be a good partner for them and possibly someone like Cincy. If they don't move up, then look for them to select WR Vincent Jackson with their second 2nd (#63) rd pick.
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I appreciate your input Kelly, but I think that being a bridesmaid more times than you can shake a stick at in the last 4 years could maybe give them the sense of urgency. You may be right, I don't know, but this Alexander would be a perfect fit for them. With the strength of their team and a very good chance at another Super Bowl this could be as enticing to Alexander as it would be for the Eagles.
Look, if they both got what they wanted, then this marriage wouldn't have to be a long term one. In addition, this draft is supposed to be good in 2nd-3rd round RBs also. With Alexander being the present, giving Philly more time to mature another RB and having a boatload of picks, then this would be a good acquisition for the Eagles.
Hey, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, then just enjoy this post for the speculating aspect of it and that we're probably the only few people up at this time of night talking about this totally absurd topic. Hey, what the hell am I doing? I'm not even a Eagles' fan!!!
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Bet? Bet, bet, bet, bet,bet?!!! No, I wouldn't bet that, but I'd be willing to bet that Henry will no longer be a Bill come opening day.
Hey, that was some great info Kelly, thanks!
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With the Eagles having 13 draft picks and in need of a great RB who can catch out of the backfield, you couldn't ask for a better fit for their offense than Alexander. It was mentioned earlier today by ESPN's John Clayton that Tampa and Philly may be interested in Alexander come draft day. The Eagles have 9 picks in the first 5 rounds alone. What a scary picture this is. They already been to the last 4 conference championships and the last one resulting in a Super Bowl apperance. Do you think that they want to go to another one and maybe, just maybe, want to win it?
They are not too much unlike the Patriots. They have a solid team with great depth and have a pleathra of draft picks. The difference is the Patriots choose to do it with veterans and cast-offs. The Eagles have done it with shrewd drafting and a continuing flow of talent through their doors. And you want to know the best part? They are well below the salary cap! They don't over pay. They accomplish this by ridding or trading players a year BEFORE they are on the downside of their career and avoid the bulk of money that is at the end of their contracts. The players draw more of a compensation. They then accumulate draft pick(s). In return they replenish their inventory with young talent thru the draft. The young propects are less expensive and are more compentent when it's their time to start.
Tom Modrak was at one time in Philly's administration. I wonder how much input or influence he had in their strategies of dealing. Will this transcend into Buffalo's way of thinking? If so, will this affect some of the Bills' veterans?
Back to Alexander. Some draft boards have projected Philly taking a RB with the 35th pick (from Miami) in the 2nd round. Seattle has already stated that they wouldn't be looking for a 1st rounder. Will this be enough? And if not, how much more would be needed? Philly has much more to give so I don't think that this will be a issue. This can and will be worked come draft day.
This, I think, is actually beneficial to the Travis Henry situation. Alexander is healthier and more appealing than Edgerrin James. With Alexander off the board it would come down to Edge and Henry as far as available veteran RBs are concern. I would imagine that this would make TH more attractive to potential suitors.
In realizing Philadelphia's position, I really have to give them credit. This is one solid organization from top to bottom!
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Bravo. I applaud your thinking outside of the box. I can't imagine anyone who tries to think up more trade scenarios than me, but with all due respect, I have to disagree with this transaction. I don't believe Buffalo can afford taking the risk of trading a major piece of the puzzle this season. I think that it's imperative for them to not just to make the play-offs, but to go deep into the post season. Unfortunately, if they were to trade NC this season they would be jeopardizing their success. Without meaning to be critical, I see several issues with this proposal.
1) Troy Vincent is better as a FS than a CB at this stage of his career.
2) We know what we got with Clements. I'm all for drafting a bright talent at CB, but this position needs to be solidified first and then we can take a chance on a young prospect.
3) Cincy isn't just one or two players away from being a powerhouse. They are in an ideal positioning in the first two rounds of the draft. They will be able to really strengthen their roster through this draft.
4) There is no guarantee that the prospective players that you mentioned will be available when it's time to select at these slots.
5) Even if this collection of youth were to materialize, it would set be a step back not a step forward in the immediate future. If you noticed, TD has traditionally acquired veteran leadership sprinkled with youth. With the O-line already being a concern, this would be the last position that would be compromised with an unbalanced blend of youths vs veterans.
I really enjoyed your post and hope that you don't take my response as a put down. I'm going to continue to forecast more draft/trade scenarios and I would appreciate your input.
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If the pecking order stays where it's at now at #55, then I'd be happy with C Jason Brown. This can prepare us for next year if the Bills don't sign Trey Teague. Castillo would be nice, but I don't think that he will be available by the time we pick. Would there be a better pick at #55 than Brown?
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I agree wholeheartedly with you on the win now thinking. This team not only has to make the play-offs, but be more than just a 1st rd exit. I do believe that not only does TD move up in the draft, but he also makes a trade for a high profile veteran. This I think will be accomplished with using next year's pick as a resource and possibly a non/partial ( example; Denney) starter. Could be one of our prospects in the secondary. There is no way that TD stands still and picks at 55. Just my belief.
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Do people really think TH has little or no value? In comparison of veterans, he is by FAR the best all around value on the board. Henry has very appealing aspects. His contract is cheap. He is more than just a decent RB, the man runs hard. His desire to leave Buffalo and be a starter is extremely high. He is young and eager. He is also a Florida boy and I can promise you, these Florida teams do like Florida kids.
People are going to be very surprised at what Donahoe gets for compensation for Henry. No way do you let him go cheap. Once again, Tampa won't be losing a 2nd rd pick, just a 3rd. I do fully expect Donahoe to trade up somewheres. Does anybody disagree?
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" It will be a different type of setting waiting for 54 people to make a selection before we have a chance to get one," president and general manager Tom Donahoe said.
Barring a trade, it will be the Bills' longest wait to make their first pick since the team drafted WR Don Beebe 82nd overall in 1989. I don't know about moving into the first rd, but I can't imagine TD standing pat. Expect some kind of trade up, even if it's only earlier in the 2nd rd.
If Denny Green really thinks that Donahoe is going to wait on him, then he's got another thing coming. Matter of fact, Green just may have inspired TD to find another partner all the more. Forget Arizona and deal with someone else. Tampa would be an even better partner. Their RB situation isn't the most desireable. Let Pittman do the catching out of the backfield and Henry do the running. Here is a team that might be more willing to swap 2nd rd picks. To make it even they would have to give up their 3rd rounder outright. Buffalo would then move up 19 slots to the 36th pick (4th in the rd). Tampa's 3rd round pick is at 71 (7th in the rd). The cost wouldn't be too damaging for them. They still keep a 2nd rd pick and only give up a 3rd round pick for a starting RB. Not too shabby.
If a trade like this could go down, then this is what I would like to see Buffalo get with the picks.
2nd rd #36 (4) Northwestern's DT Luis Castillo
3rd rd #71 (7) North Carolina's C Jason Brown
3rd rd #86 (86) Oregon State's DE Bill Swancutt
4th rd #122 (21) Illinois' CB Kelvin Hayden
5th rd #156 (20) Texas Christian's TE Cody McCarty
6th rd #197 (23) Colorado State's OT Erik Pears
7th rd #236 (22) Northwestern's OLB-SS Dominique Price. Here I would think that he could be groomed to be a good back-up to ILB London Fletcher.
I can see Matt Jones as a Bill
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
WR Vincent Jackson may be a better value. He might still be available when we pick in the 3rd rd. I don't think drafting a WR early is needed. The only two reasons to draft a WR like Jones is because;
a) The Mularkey theory on using slash player(s)
b) Get a big, fast WR to replace Eric Moulds for down the road.
After all the current trade rumors going on and where we are supposely going to end up (in the very early 2nd rd), I don't think that this pick will end up being used on Jones or a TE, WR, DE, and man I can't believe that I'm going to say it, an O-lineman. I fully expect Buffalo to be setting their sights on a DT or a CB. I think with their original 2nd rd (#55) you will see the Bills look at a C and maybe a LT or LB if ones that they coveted was to unexpectingly fall to them at this slot. WR and TE won't be address until at least the 3rd rd or later.
If our LT isn't on our roster already, then taking a C will afford us versatility with Teague being able to man either position. The only way Buffalo selects a starting LT with our 1st pick is by trading up or into the first rd.