Georgia Bill

Ballsy move - paid off for the Hawks - great game!

Exactly - he belittles deflategate because it's a joke. The fact that most Bills fans on this board have got their panties in a wad about it is embarassing.

Funny (and gross) - definately worth the watch!

Always liked Wade. Here's hoping him success - except against us of course!

New England 31 Seattle 17

This is it in a slightly large nutshell. It’s science, but it’s not rocket science. From the NBC Sports article on pressure drop due to temperature: “The folks at SportsScience addressed this issue in 2010. A ball exposed to 10-degree temperatures for an hour, the pressure drops from 13.5 PSI to 11 PSI.” Assuming that was a drop from 70 degrees to 10 degrees, then a 60 degree drop = 2.5 PSI drop, which is approximately 0.4 PSI per 10 degree change. From the University of Toronto Physicist quoted in this thread: “Morris arrived at his conclusion based on this example: a 30C (86F) refs locker-room temperature, a 0C (32F) field temperature and a 13 PSI initial pressure-gauge reading. Only such a wide temperature difference yields as much as a 2-PSI pressure drop, he said.” He’s saying a 54 degree drop (from 86 degrees to 32 degrees) = 2 PSI drop, which is also approximately 0.4 PSI per 10 degree change. Now on to how this all plays out: Belichick says their ball prep rubbing process increases pressure by about 1 PSI. From the above, for about 1 PSI you need to increase internal ball temp by 20 to 25 degrees. Balls with 20 degree internal temp rise provided to refs. They set them to 12.5 PSI, per Pats request. At half time, the internal temps are down 45 degrees (-25 degrees or -1 PSI due to the ball prep effect, and another -20 degrees or -0.8 PSI due to the temp drop from 70 degrees inside to 50 degrees at half time). So they measure 10.7. That is 1.8 PSI “low” and close enough to the stated 2 PSI, given the limits of PSI measurement accuracy. So what about the Colts balls? Suppose they ask for them to be set at 13.5 PSI by the Refs. But they don’t do any ball prep. 13.5 pregame. At halftime, internal ball temp is down 20 degrees only or -0.8 PSI. So they measure 12.7. To the refs “no issue with Colts footballs”. If you who have debated this for so long don’t want to spend the time to understand this simple math, how long is the public going to care about it? The only issue is if the Pats football rub process could raise the temp by 20 to 25 degrees. If not, they are liars. If so, this all is explained away by simple boring math.

OK. Here is the order that explains 1.5 lbs (not 2 though): 1 Patriots super rub the balls, increasing their temp (and the air temp inside) which raises PSI by one pound (per hoodie). For the sake of argument say they measure 13.5 lbs then. 2 Balls are immediately given to officials who find them to measure 13.5, and they deflate them to 12.5 (as requested by Pats) 3 That is the last time balls are normally measured (as best I can tell from what has been stated) 4 If those same balls were just left at room temp for a couple hours, they would cool down and measure 11.5 5 If they go out into 50 degree weather, they drop another half pound to 11 PSI. The above is not that hard to understand, although many here seem to be struggling with it. For myself, I think the things at odds with the above, that need to be clarified are: a) Can the vigorous rubbing actually increase the air pressure by 1 PSI (basically the process needs to generate enough heat to do it)? b) If it can, how long could that extra 1 PSI hold - and could the Pats get those balls to the refs fast enough that it did hold (hoodie said that is part of their normal game day process) Bill Nye is full of sh*t when he says the only thing that can deflate a football is a needle. Dropping internal air temp also drops PSI, and he should be smart enought to know that. I drove from AZ into a cold CO one day and was surprised to find all my tires at mid 20 PSI. It's a fact. The only things in question to me are a and b above.

You're right, I just read the whole transcript.

OK, I read the whole transcript and he did indeed say they do not heat the balls or put them into a dryer. So he is sticking by his statement that "rubbing" the balls to prep them causes them to rais PSI by one lb. Bill Nye says no can do. Somebody should do the experiment to see.

Belichick said "We simulated a game day situation in terms of the preparation of the football and where the footballs were at various points in time during the day, or night, as the case was Sunday. I would say that our preparation process for the footballs is what we do. I can’t speak for anybody else. It’s what we do. That process, we have found raises the PSI [pounds per square inch] approximately one pound. That process of creating a tackiness, a texture — the right feel, whatever that feel is, it’s just a sensation for the quarterback, what’s the right feel. That process elevates the PSI approximately one pound based on what our study showed, which was multiple footballs, multiple examples in the process, as we would do for a game. When the footballs are delivered to the officials locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 PSI. What exactly they did, I don’t know. But for the purposes of our study, that’s what we did. We set them at 12.5. That’s at the discretion of the official, though." I think it is going to come out that "our preparation process" is what is going to come under scrutiny. My guess is that in order to "prepare" 12-24 balls (whatever it is), they put the balls in a large tumbler - to rub them up and give them the tackiness & feel that the QB likes. It wouldn't surprise me that the tumbler they use is an industrial sized clothes dryer. It would explain everything. They may have been doing it for years. Innocently or with ill-intent that is the question, but THAT will be impossible to prove.

Belichick said "We simulated a game day situation in terms of the preparation of the football and where the footballs were at various points in time during the day, or night, as the case was Sunday. I would say that our preparation process for the footballs is what we do. I can’t speak for anybody else. It’s what we do. That process, we have found raises the PSI [pounds per square inch] approximately one pound. That process of creating a tackiness, a texture — the right feel, whatever that feel is, it’s just a sensation for the quarterback, what’s the right feel. That process elevates the PSI approximately one pound based on what our study showed, which was multiple footballs, multiple examples in the process, as we would do for a game. When the footballs are delivered to the officials locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 PSI. What exactly they did, I don’t know. But for the purposes of our study, that’s what we did. We set them at 12.5. That’s at the discretion of the official, though." I think it is going to come out that "our preparation process" is what is going to come under scrutiny. My guess is that in order to "prepare" 12-24 balls (whatever it is), they put the balls in a large tumbler - to rub them up and give them the tackiness & feel that the QB likes. It wouldn't surprise me that the large tumbler they use is an industrial sized clothes dryer. It would explain everything. A heated, tumbled ball that is set to 12.5 PSI shortly thereafter would easily drop 1 to 1.5 PSI once all the heat effect wore off (depending on game temps). They may have been doing it for years. Innocently or with ill-intent that is the question, but THAT is one that will be impossible to prove.

Bogus or not they just put the NFL into the position of having to disprove that it is possible. That will have to be part of their investigation, and the science of all the half pound changes due to this or that is going to bore people to tears. It will also reveal that the NFL does not have rules in effect to make absolutely sure that balls are within 12.5 to 13.5 at game time, and they are going to have to change their process. Common basic sense? How about maybe the Colts don't do their ball rubs just before giving them to the refs. Or perhaps they ask the refs to inflate them to 13.5 PSI, not 12.5 PSI. This isn't an investigation into the Colts ball handling practices.

Yes they would be at 12.5 PSI right when they are filled - no one was debating that. The prep process heats the ball up(and air inside it). It's the same as using "heated air" as some suggested they were doing if cheating deliberately. If they are given right after that prep (heating) process to the officials, and they set them at 12.5 PSI, once the ball cools down to room temp (due to the heat from rubbing the ball dissipating)they drop to 11.5 PSI. Then another half when out in 50 degrees.

You guys just won't let it go. At the end of all this I think there's going to be a lot of embarassed people in the public eye who called them out as cheaters and liars, without any facts. Frankly, what Belichick said made sense. It made sense that he would insist on walking through the process so he could understand what happened, given the hoopla. In a nutshell he said the preparation process (vigorous rubbing) raises the PSI by about a pound. They are then provided to the officials who are asked to inflate to 12.5 PSI. All that done at room temp. Once out in game temps (colder), you lose not only the initial one pound due to prep, but also another half. So you can be down about one and a half pounds (to 11 PSI or so). I suspect this will be proven to be possible - depending on the ball prep process, and it is by far the most probable explanation. Why weren't the Colts balls low too? I have to say that's a stupid question. Maybe they don't heat up the ball temp as much when they prep the balls, if at all. Maybe they ask for their balls to be set at the high side (13.5 PSI).

You guys just won't let it go. At the end of all this I think there's going to be a lot of embarassed people in the public eye who called them out as cheaters and liars, without any facts. Frankly, what Belichick said made sense. It made sense that he would insist on walking through the process so he could understand what happened, given the hoopla. In a nutshell he said the preparation process (vigorous rubbing) raises the PSI by about a pound. They are then provided to the officials who are asked to inflate to 12.5 PSI. All that done at room temp. Once out in game temps (colder), you lose not only the initial one pound due to prep, but also another half. So you can be down about one and a half pounds (to 11 PSI or so). I suspect this will be proven to be possible - depending on the ball prep process, and it is by far the most probable explanation. Why weren't the Colts balls low too? I have to say that's a stupid question. Maybe they don't heat up the ball temp as much when they prep the balls, if at all. Maybe they ask for their balls to be set at the high side (13.5 PSI).

I'll stand by my prediction. Early in their undefeated regular season they were most under scrutiny by Spygate, and they took it out on other teams. In fact they started to get criticized for inflating the score needlessly. The fact that they couldn't eek out the SB win (almost did, but for a miraculous helmet catch) does not change the fact that they seemed hell bent on crushing opponents - especially early on, to prove they did not need to cheat to win. Similar situation here, fresh allegation and all they can do now is prove they don't need underinflated footballs to win.

On the contrary, I now think there will be a similar score, but with the Pats winning. Remember the season after spygate? The Pats put the petal to the metal and crushed everyone they played. No slowdown no matter how big their lead. They were making a point, that they didn't need to cheat to win. I see the same thing happening here - it's kind of their only way to say to the world - we truly were the best team in the NFL, no matter the ball pressure.

I find great comfort in knowing that while my Bills often lose, they are honest losses. I'm sure we will go down in history being remembered as a model of integrity, as apparently in the NFL there is nothing more sacred. In fact, we should probably not allow excessively penalized players entry into the Hall of Fame, or put large asterisks on their records, for surely they were trying to cheat the sacred rules - and got caught multiple times, in attempts to win games.

Well I guess we don't have to wait on the NFL for the result of the investigation. Case closed - they cheated

Wow - seriously a ban for life? Some of you are just batsh*t cra cra. Somebody had a suspicion and voiced it - maybe a ball felt a little soft. NFL said they'd look into it. Any number of things could be root cause here, yet what seems like 95% of this board assumes they were deliberately cheating, and some want outrageous penalties. No matter the outcome those of you who felt they cheated will never believe a ruling the other way. No point deliberating it any further, your minds are already set. I guess perception is reality in this case - no need for facts.

I agree. More often than not, what people tend to ascribe to conspiracy is really only due to incompetency or ignorance. No evidence here that the Patriots actually did anything intentionally unethical. But because they DID in the past, it is now assumed that anything they can twist and distort to their advantage via ultra devious conspiratorial plotting, they will. I suspect nothing will come of this one though.

Actually.... You have a hard time building a case for New England being no. 1 for "bandwagon" fans, as the term bandwagon implies fans that are only fans when the team is doing good. In other words they aren't fans when the team is doing poorly. New England has been doing so good for so long that there is no "doing poorly" time period to use for comparison. The most fortunate fans - yes, that I would agree with.

With all the punts on 4th down, it is evident that our balls were indeed underinflated this year.

Pats 27 Colts 24 Hawks 38 Packers 10

Best wishes to the Schwartz! Sad to see him go.