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Beck Water

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    Do You Like What Beane Did in the First Round?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

     

    What if one of the other teams calling wanted Worthy? It isn't definitely the case that the only way to keep him from KC was to pick him. And I'm not even that fussed by Worthy particularly. I think he is another WR2 and KC has Rice and Hollywood already that I think fit that criteria (Rice maybe a lower end #1 I suppose, let's see). It isn't about the outcome so much as the process to me. My principle is I'm not doing anything I think might help KC. 

     

    And that's a fine principle.  

     

    Let's suppose San Francisco had Worthy ahead of Pearsall on their board, while Beane (right or wrong) has 0 interest in Worthy.  They have a 3rd round grade on him, say.  So, what if Dallas or the Ravens trade with KC?  KC still gets Worthy, and we don't get their 3rd round pick.  KC has gotten a lot of meat and potatoes out of their recent 3rd round picks.

    So let's see, in that scenario, KC helps themselves and we get nothing for high-mindedly holding out, instead of taking their 3rd round pick (which presumably also helps us)

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    Do You Like What Beane Did in the First Round?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

    And we KNOW Beane had other calls. Do we KNOW that those teams were calling because they wanted Worthy? No. But the Chiefs was not the only offer. I don't buy the "the only way to keep him out of the Chiefs grasp was to pick him" narrative as though it is fact. It may well be the case but we don't know that. 

     

    What we can reasonably guess is that the Chiefs offered more than the other callers.

     

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    Do You Like What Beane Did in the First Round?

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    One of the things I like about Beane is there's very little pissing and moaning about the hand he's been dealt.

    He looks at his cards, decides what he needs to get what he wants, and wheels and deals accordingly.

     

    In this case, he dealt our 3rd round pick to help us be competitive after injuries during the season - and it worked.  But then the NFL screwed us on the comp pick formula, left us without the 3rd we expected, and was deaf to appeals.  So Beane shrugged, rolled up his sleeves, and figured out what he needed to do.

     

    I remember all too well the days of Buddy Nix moaning on the catfished cell phone call about how the Bills "only had 6 picks - what can you do with 6 picks?"

     

    Beane may be right, he may be wrong, but if he goes down, he's going to go down trying to make a difference.

    Live 2024 NFL Draft thread - Round 1 (Do NOT tip the Bills pick)

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    24 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

    Worthy is the same size as Devonta Smith. I don’t want that guy, and that skill set, in Andy Reid’s offense. If you aren’t concerned about that, we see things differently. 

     

    They aren't dissimilar in size, but as far as I can figure they seem to be scouted as rather different players


    https://www.nfl.com/prospects/devonta-smith/3200534d-4920-6016-573c-fcc767bafc4d

     

    https://www.nfl.com/prospects/xavier-worthy/3200574f-5274-1496-c9ca-5c4709faa05b

     

    Brett Veach is a great GM, no doubt, and KC is the team to beat until proven otherwise.  So I understand the indignation towards helping KC get anything they want.

     

    He also doesn't have a perfect draft record - Mecole Hardman and Skyy Moore before looking like he hit with a WR on his third shot in Rashee Rice (and then....)

    Clyde Edwards-Helaire in the 1st who got outplayed by 7th rounder Pacheco.

    Time will tell.    
     

     

     

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    Live 2024 NFL Draft thread - Round 1 (Do NOT tip the Bills pick)

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

    I haven't seen a team completely waste a top ten pick like Atlanta did tonight 

     

    The pick for them made zero sense in my opinion for them

     

    The only thing I can think is they're planning to do a Mahomes, where their QB "watches and learns" for a year, then trade Kirk and his fully guaranteed $27.5 salary.

    Atlanta would have to eat $37.5 of dead money from his signing bonus, but ..................

    Why the Bills don't "need" a traditional X receiver

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    40 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

    Nobody is arguing the Bills don't need guys that can separate and generate YAC...it was a huge problem last season.

     

    The point is, there are lots of guys in the draft this year that excel at that, so we should be excited. But instead, lots of posters want to trade our whole draft for a big-bodied traditional X. We don't need that to accomplish the goal, especially if we plan on running 12 personnel at any kind of decent clip.

     

    If your point is that the Bills should be very very very sure and then be even more sure before trading, not the entire draft, but maybe top picks from this year AND next...I agree with you

     

    If your point is the Bills don't need a guy who can play X or boundary receiver because we can put 2 TE on the line and play our receivers off ball - I disagree

     

    My caveat being that I think what you need there is a guy who is "sturdy enough" and "big enough" and "fast enough" combined with being a human who is "very good at football" as Dawkins once said of Diggs....sure other things being equal as @Buffalo716 take the guy who is bigger and faster....but chasing size and speed in receivers sometimes mean you wind up with a guy who is not as good at playing football as a guy with OK size but great moves and hands....mensa conclusion I know

    37 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

    Right but if you can't beat man, you can't beat the Chiefs. 


    The Bills play 98% zone (just ball parking because it's a lot) and we can't beat a starting QB in the playoffs. We have not beaten a team above the 5 seed. You need to effectively play man in some capacity to win. 

     

    I think this ball-parking is incorrect.....the Bills play a lot more man than you think.  The reason they wanted Elam, of course, is that Levi Wallace and Dane Jackson were Burnt Toast playing man, that's one of the things we lost when Tre White was injured.  But with Benford and Douglas I think they played man last year more than you'd think.

    Why the Bills don't "need" a traditional X receiver

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted · Edited by Beck Water

    8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

    I would love to see that data. 

     

    I would love to find the source, too, I have a pretty decent memory so I believe I read it - actually it may have been in a Cover1 video - but I've been rummaging around and no can find.  Lots of stuff on which Ds play the most man by down and etc.

    I don't subscribe to any of the stat services though, so maybe someone here who does could find it.
     

    5 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

    Unfortunately for the Bills, Snead plays for KC or we'd have 1 or 2 championships. Snead just abuuuuused Diggs man. It was very hard to watch. 

     

    Well, he's on to the Titans now.

    Why the Bills don't "need" a traditional X receiver

    in The Stadium Wall

    Posted

    9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

    Don't get me wrong I agree 

     

    I want a big physical guy... Who has the skill set to dominate press man

     

    If you give me two equal football players.. 100% the same skill set... And one is 5'11 195

     

    And one is 6'3 223 ... Give me the big dude all day everyday and twice in Sundays 

     

    I want a guy who will come down with a tough catch

    That one was but for some reason it was marked 2023 season but it was from the 2022 season 

     

    So the numbers I used were from two seasons ago 

     

    I cannot find 2023 numbers... And unless I watch every snap to see how many times he was pressed and how he beat it... I can't give a real assessment other than he's always been good at beating press 

     

    So I doubt he just became horrible even if he regressed

     

    Well, we've talked before, you know I acknowledge that when it comes to watching broadcast film I have "slow eyes" and need all-22 and a couple watchings to know what I'm seeing....but to my eyes, we had real problems beating man coverage last season and that includes Diggs, at least in the 2nd half of the season.

     

    It wasn't always press, in that JT O'Sullivan QB School youtube vid on the division game vs KC you can see routes where Snead just sat back and waited for Diggs route to bring him to him, basically - he must have felt pretty confident he understood what route concepts were going to be run from different sets and cues.

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