GregPersons

You know that phrase "If you want respect, you need to show respect"? Or "If you want respect, you need to earn it"? Had you started with this post, and being upfront and direct, this conversation would've been very different. Instead you came in with loaded questions and attempts to "prove me wrong" instead of engaging honestly. And then, of course, your sly disingenuousness is somehow then blamed on me. This is actually a wonderful little microcosm of the entire issue. You just couldn't respect me enough, up front, to play it straight. I answer all your dumbass questions and situations from the hip, assuming the best possible faith even with your snarky ass tone and responding in kind. And of course you're playing a game. You don't get it. Obviously you don't. If you did, we would've started here. Instead, you assume this is the end. You assume this is you putting your cards down and winning. You're looking at this in a completely different way, and you're sure it's the right way. We're only out here begging for our lives, but people instead pull this. "Yeah black lives might matter, maybe, but blue lives definitely matter and deserve more respect." ***** off if that's your way, you dishonorable *****. You got it. What's your parents address?

OHHHHHHHH I almost forgot about this one. Y'all love this one. "Broken families" are the cause of.... black people being murdered by the police. So, how come Trump with his broken family and garbage education isn't struggling right now? Ah yes. He was born into wealth. How is that possible? Because of generations of white looting. How do we know that? Because it's basic ass history. America was built on the back of slaves. White people profited from work they did not perform. It's always been known. "Five acres and a mule" or whatever. But the thing about White Americans is they're dishonorable. How can we say that? Only all of the group's collective actions throughout the country's history. Racists are dumb as ***** and y'all only keep showing it!

Hey it's all good. I've actually seen a few of your posts to already know you're dumb as a rock, like even on a board full of mid-double digit IQs, you're notably one of the stupider people posting on a regular basis here. You can one hundred percent eat ***** and choke on it, and that would be more productive than anything you've ever done. Cheers, mate!

Howdy, thanks for having a nice and polite tone with your questions. Well let me begin by trying to understand your question better. What crimes do you think right now the police are doing a good job of containing and handling, that would be noticeably worse without them?

No problem, just one quick question before you go (this is all entirely on topic for the protests in Buffalo btw). Agree/disagree — America systemically imprisons/executes minorities with state violence? Feel free to ask me to provide examples!

Well see your first paragraph made me feel like I was being too harsh in my readings, then your second one reminded me I was understanding your tone correctly. My ignorance and extremism, I'm curious for some specifics here. What is extreme in what we've discussed? What part of that scenario was too extreme for you? That the mediators didn't have guns, you could not possibly imagine a scenario without guns? "Both sides." Who are the "sides"? Is one of the sides... Black people? Is it that they need to stop listening to the music so loud and pull up their pants and say Sir Yes Sir? Also. My friend. You have absolutely no clue what law enforcement does on a daily basis, which you proved by coming into class with police statistics in a conversation about police brutality like that isn't the stupidest ***** white person cluelessness I've ever seen. If you had a career in the police, by all means, now is the time to show me that proof if you want to have the advantage on this one. Otherwise I see no reason to assume that your perspective — clearly white, authoritarian, subservient, unimaginative, ignorant — is going to be more accurate. I suspect you have taken in most of your assumptions about what police do, like the majority of Americans, from the abundance of pro-police fiction. You're aware of how American police tactics largely evolved from Slave Catcher Patrols, right? https://lawenforcementmuseum.org/2019/07/10/slave-patrols-an-early-form-of-american-policing/ https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/ https://theconversation.com/the-racist-roots-of-american-policing-from-slave-patrols-to-traffic-stops-112816 https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=116023 Can you see the connection? Do you think cause & effect are real, or imaginary? Also I love your bolded, dramatic ending. What a long-winded way to say "blue lives matter." This is not difficult, morally, provided you're not racist. It's quite clear. I never brought up reparations, except to laugh in the face of a couple of posters who brought it up as their reason they can't support black people's protests. I'm not here to debate reparations with racists, that's just hilarious. Also -- uh, what solutions were those? How do you guys do this thing, did you learn it from Trump or did he learn it from folks like y'all? Where you just make something up and then insist it's real.

The other guys, I suspect will get let off. As I understand it they were being trained? They absolutely should have intervened. I am confident if they are punished at all it will be a light sentencing. I don't want to imagine the country's response if Chauvin is not convicted. I know what it looks like; we've seen it before and I hope it doesn't repeat. All anybody wants is for this kind of thing to stop happening... forever. Instead of all the time. Incidentally, the cops in Breonna Taylor murder have yet to be arrested or punished. Just one of many examples where the families have to suffer the loss and the humiliation of an absence of justice. (Linking to the petition rather than any specific news source, because it can be found wherever you want to read your news.)

I've watched it. And I agree with you to a point. I just can't agree that it was his fault, or that he was asking for it. I understand he was disobeying. It doesn't make it okay. He didn't stumble on his own. He was pushed. We need to remember that the law can be wrong; orders can be wrong. These are not written by God. These are man-made decisions. And when -- the next day -- almost 60 Buffalo cops then decide to strike, to spite the (very minor!) punishment placed on the officers -- and then defend their actions with literal Nazi quotes... I know people want to say Nazi comparisons are way out of bounds. But they ***** said "We're just following orders." Buffalo Gal, that is the exact defense used by Nazis in the Nuremberg Trials. Here's a harder pill to swallow. We have more in common with Nazi Germany than we'd ever care to admit. Am I wrong? Sure, they're totally different, right? Nothing alike. I mean Nazi Germany happened in a different longitude & latitude, the minorities being persecuted were different, the specifics on the arrests and imprisonments and executions were different, it was a different year, and it's all in black & white photos. It couldn't possibly be us. So what do we have in common? Only that both the US and Nazi Germany have systemically, to numbers unseen before or elsewhere in the world, imprisoned and executed minority populations with state-sanctioned legal lawful orders. I know you're going to want to dismiss this!! But just take a minute with it and imagine a history 100 years from now. Imagine if the police could be rebooted into a less destructive and far more peaceful enterprise. Imagine the future looking back on this time, the way maybe we look back on slavery or public lynchings, and think "how did they ever stand for this?"

Unless it's pro-military support the troops, at the beginning and throughout each game. Of course that's not politics. That's just patriotism. It's only "politics" if you don't like it! Good on you. This is the work. This is what it looks like. You say, this is messed up. This is not made up. This is real, and it's been there the whole time. It is even okay that you didn't know until now. Really! Because White people were not supposed to know about this. It was cleverly hidden away for many many decades; it was disguised in all sorts of ways. "Thugs, inner city crime." On and on, to make sure that you didn't think too much about it and just kept on with your business. It would never occur the ways in which white society can be complicit in this, even for people who are not outwardly racist or hateful; it is in the structures themselves... everything in our history. Only now with technology & social media is it possible for voices/images to be heard/seen that otherwise would not. But we didn't get to this point by accident. This is a long series of cause & effect. And it's not White vs Black. It is Everybody vs Racism. It cannot be black people alone fighting for this. White people have privilege. Their voices matter. It matters when people like Drew Brees flip and start advocating for people to listen. It's all small actions, individually. But they add up. So, again. Good for you on doing the work. For real.

They could've helped the old man in a way that didn't involve shoving him and making him bleed on the sidewalk? Is that so crazy to hope for? Yes, even if he was being an ass. Yes, even if he wasn't "supposed to be there" (which btw, curfew ***** is all unconstitutional and you should be mad about that too)

What are the real problems? Who should be changing?

No but I was waiting for when you were going to tell me my opinion was unqualified! Honestly I expected it to come a bit earlier. Tell us about your experience responding to those situations. What was your role? What happened? What did you learn?

Did the old man drive the SUV into them? Was he pushing officers to the ground? I guess I also don't understand what you think the police are supposed to be doing. How is recklessly endangering a citizen part of their responsibility to protect and serve? How does that keep anyone safe? And most importantly, why can't we expect more from the police? Why is it that we should say they're fine, its everyone else that is the problem? Why are you willing to blame everyone EXCEPT the cops? The answer is probably something like "The cops keep us safe." Do they? What do they really do, exactly? Where is the evidence? Because the truth is, I think Americans all think they're so clever that they would neeeeeeevr fall for propaganda... and yet, everybody's idea of what police actually do, and how much they actually accomoplish, seems to mostly come from fictional sources.

I misspoke (just as I assume you mean Floyd and not Lloyd, so I'm sure you'll be forgiving). I was getting this quote mixed up with the fact it took longer to charge the other officers.

If he has a gun, then it is a hostage situation. You call in the hostage specialists. That is your armed team. They act with precision, not blunt force. Yes, he is arrested. The counseling would be part of the mandatory punishment for the infraction. If he continues to behave violently, he is removed from society. But rather than throw him in jail and lock away the key, there's money to rehabilitate this person. Does this make sense? At what point would you like to begin admitting this already makes more sense than our current system's methods for handling such a situation? That would be appreciated.

Why is it unreasonable to expect police officers to behave peacefully? Why is that a question that is incomprehensible? Why do we have to fear the police? We literally pay them with our taxes. Charging those officers with assault would be justice. If you or I shoved an old man on the sidewalk like that, we would be charged with assault, rightly so. Cops are not justified for this force. They are not soldiers (Incidentally, soldiers behave a hell of a lot more responsibly). That they aren't being charged is corrupt. That they're being defended by you is sad.

Again just please preface these with "I have no imagination and cannot think of an answer to these on my own. Please help me." Or at least drop the sarcasm if you want a kinder response. Yes. The mediators would separate a physically abusive husband in this situation. This is why you bring multiple mediators. You would subdue him with minimal violence; outnumbering him should give you enough advantage. You separate them. And you bring in crisis and relationship counselors. And you make an effort to solve the issue instead of worsening it. Or, you have the current system, which would address your situation like this — armed cops arrive, write a report, do nothing, and don't return until he's killed her. Great. First of all, hello, you're a dumbass and obviously racist so a big ***** you to begin. To answer your question, this isn't a Trump-only issue. Remember Obama's response to Ferguson? It sucked ass. Obama is not helping right now, either. His funded groups are promoting "8 can't wait" — a moderate do-nothing reform that would, again, simply put this issue in a box, put a "we tried" label on it, and hope it doesn't return again next year. So, when you bold the part that says "systemic racism" you might want to look into what that means. Because your childish assumption that somehow Obama's presidency was going to fix that, just because he's black... I just, I want you to hear me: you are stupid as *****.

It does look horrible, and it's not just that it looks horrible, but what it says. To be clear -- I understand why it happened, in terms of protocol, and that he wasn't left there for hours or even minutes. But it also says a lot about police priorities in general, and as Mayor Brown keeps showing, the complete lack from government to hold cops accountable in any way. It's so hard to hold police accountable, it took global protests for Minnesota to charge George Floyd's killers, and still took them weeks. And it's their fastest turnaround ever! So it's not just Buffalo, or any one place that's figuring this out. It is a nationwide issue. And enough is enough. Police have been given a lot of leeway over decades, centuries. A lot of leeway. Even in modern times, you think of all the little ways cops abuse their power... speeding, going through red lights, double parking. Little things like that, to say nothing of their absurd payrolls and budgets and equipment, do not help their credibility here. And knowing cameras and attention is on them now, they still behave boorishly and violently in instances like this. Police are a symbol, and people need to trust in that symbol for it to work. In response to protests of police brutality, police responded with extreme brutality. That trust and that symbol is all but completely destroyed. People have been radicalized this week faster than I've ever seen. Can't count the amount of folks I've seen go from "its a few bad apples" to "Tear it all down" this week. It's 'cuz of all of this ***** adding up.

No, you're right. The correct response is to kick the door in and start shooting, ask questions later. Just like da call of doody!

Yeah, Hollywood made it up. There's no other way to get this information. I just know reading can be challenging for folks here.

What a joke. And that absolves them all of walking past a person bleeding out on the street, in obvious need? Brown doesn't get it. Or like most mayors, he's completely owned by the police union.

You bring mediators. Why would you need a gun for a two person dispute? Bring a small team of unarmed mediators. Yes, most of that exists but it is not utilized or funded or directed in the most productive way. The idea is to fund these services with the massive budgets afforded to police. But instead of police behaving like an occupying army, they would behave like firefighters for civil problems. The parties flipped during LBJ's presidency, when he signed the Civil Rights Ac, which had been led by MLK. There was even a movie about it recently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_Way_(film)

You know what I've always thought was fun, is how do racists like football? Because the league is majority black. And then it all kinda clarified for me when the team had a black QB and GM at the same time and how awful that was for so many people. So I get it now. You want to be the QB or the GM or the HC... you want to be the white guy leading the savages. I get the fantasy now. Probably why you can't get into basketball, I bet. Not enough white dudes in charge.

Is it? 1) http://lubbockonline.com/stories/120998/LA0665.shtml 2) http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/05/new_orleans_crime_stats_analys.html 3) http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2014/Chicago-crime-rates/ 4) http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/hundreds-of-assault-cases-misreported-by-milwaukee-police-department-v44ce4p-152862135.html Sure. See my previous post. It's not hard to find. http://www.villagevoice.com/news/the-nypd-tapes-confirmed-6434290 http://www.latimes.com/local/cityhall/la-me-crime-stats-20151015-story.html To your questions: Do you think they are changing the race of the offender or the race victim in their reporting? No. Do you think they are reporting murders that didn't happen? No. Do you think they are hiding murders that did happen? Yes.

Wait just to be clear — you are insisting that police numbers, about police violence, are generally trustworthy and accurate? You are surely aware that these numbers are very very very very commonly cooked for political purposes? Aw! Sorry your feelings got hurt. Rest up. It's gonna be a long year.