FireChans

Pinning this comment for when he inevitably is an All-Pro.

With Kincaid as OUR first round TE, I thought it would be useful to draw a historic comparison with the production that other first round TE's have made their rookie seasons. Kyle Pitts - 68 rec 1026 yards 1 TD TJ Hockenson - 32 rec 367 yards 2 TD Noah Fant 40 rec 562 yards 3 TD Hayden Hurst 13 rec 163 yards 1 TD OJ Howard 26 rec 432 yards 6 TD Evan Engram 64 rec 722 yards 6 TD David Njoku 32 rec 386 yards 4 TD Eric Ebron 25 rec 248 yards 1 TD Tyler Eifert 39 rec 445 yards 2 TD At first glance, woof. Obviously the 2 notable productive TE's, Engram and Pitts stand out. But both were heavily targeted, 115 for Engram and 110 for Pitts. When looking at the Bills offense, Knox (who will likely remain TE1) has averaged ~57 targets per year. Assuming Diggs/Davis/Knox are receiving the lion's share of targets again (which they should be), what do you all think is a reasonable expectation for the rookie next year? I would be pleasantly surprised with a 40 catch 400 yard couple TD season. I am expecting closer to 30-300. Obviously rooting for him to be Travis Kelce/Mark Andrews/George Kittle born again as a rookie. But the history of the position doesn't support that being the case.

I'm reserving judgment. I am hopeful for better OL play. I don't like the Kincaid pick at all. Dorsey could barely get Knox involved last year. Now he has to get a second TE involved? What's the over/under on how many balls Kincaid gets next year? 30 catches?

Why is Antonio Johnson falling Gunner!

The blockers in the NFL have been introducing Edmunds to the Gatorade jugs more often than not.

DHop rumours are Dheating up! f5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And when Davis signs a big contract elsewhere, you’ve upgraded the position already with Hopkins and gained another conditional pick coming back.

We have that expression in American English. We don’t have “put another shrimp on the barbey,” which may have been what you were thinking of.

The real question is was Boogie Basham a need pick or not.

@GunnerBill I always think the OSU QB's will suck. I know you've been doing this long enough to have graded Fields (whose career is TBD but I would not call him worth a 1st round yet) and Haskins (RIP). What about Stroud as a prospect makes you think better or worse of him compared to those other two guys? I feel like a common theme is that they are NEVER anticipatory throwers. Just doesn't really appear on their tape at all.

Years of getting owned by Welker and Edelman

Tre White wasn’t healthy….. Do the Rams win the Super Bowl missing Jalen Ramsey or Aaron Donald the entire postseason?

On paper? Maybe. On the field? No. We have been absolutely snakebitten with key defensive guys injured every year past 2020. Teams that lose their best pass rusher and their best DB don't win too many Superbowls. Hard disagree. Roger Saffold was legit the worst OG in the NFL. It was the worst WR group Josh played with since 2019. Defense on paper was probably the best, but losing Hyde/Miller and having Tre White look like a corpse out there is why the games aren't played on paper.

I mean, Elam contributed a lot this year. The problem isn't "picking defensive players." The problem is picking the wrong players, who suck. If we go all offense, every single pick in 2023, and they are all AJ Epenesa and Boogie Basham type players, they are gonna suck too my dude.

49ers have 4, same as the Bills. Like I said, ya'll want to make it out to be some easily correctable strategic flaw. It's not. It's just getting better players. You will not find a consistent strategy as to why the Bengals, the Chiefs, the Bucs and the Rams have won more playoff games than the Bills in the last 3 seasons. What you will find is that those teams, by and large, just had better players. That 2020 Bucs team was INSANE from a talent perspective. They had a #1 WR as their #3! They didn't win because they spent 4 draft picks on the OL instead of 3. The Bengals throw it all over the yard because they have 2 AWESOME WR's, one drafted in the top 10 and the other drafted early in the second round. Our last top 10 pick hasn't even earned a second contract yet, and our last pick early in the second round was traded for a bag of peanuts already. The Rams strategy has been belabored to death so I hope I don't have to explain that one. You can go up and down the roster of every single one of those teams. I would take the 2020 Bucs, the 2021 Bengals, the 2021 Rams and the 2022 Chiefs over this entire Bills 53 over the same time period sans Josh Allen. So would everyone else.

KC loads up on defense every year. Wrong.

Okay and we are defining post-season success how? Playoff wins? Since Josh Allen became a superstar QB (2020), the Bills have 4 playoff wins. The only teams with more in that span are the Bucs (5), the Chiefs (7), and the Bengals (5). What is the difference between the Bills and those teams. About 90% of it is "they have/had better players." Edit: bah forgot the stupid Rams (5) but point still stands.

Ah yes, as we all know, superstar trades in the NFL are entirely a case of "who picks up the phone first." Teams NEVER negotiate with multiple suitors to get a better deal. I mean, they would be crazy to do so! I'd like what you're having.

I mean, the whole discussion is about the Bills strategy. No they couldn’t have. Because AJ Brown went for the 18th pick and we had the 27th. What team takes the worse pick in a trade lmao

Because Dion Dawkins is better than Orlando Brown and is already on our team, we hardly needed to trade a first rounder for an LT, who walked for nothing in FA. Joe Thuney was a great move sure, but we have also made our own large contract splashes with IOL, namely Mitch Morse. Do the Chiefs win the Super Bowl if Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith are Cody Ford and Spencer Brown level talents? The answer, obviously, is no. Do the Bills have one of the best OL's in football if Cody Ford and Spencer Brown are as good as Creed and Smith? Obviously, yes.

We drafted Cody Ford in the second round. Was him being a garbage player and Creed Humphrey being good not luck? What about Spencer Brown, who was drafted higher than Trey Smith? If Spencer Brown and Cody Ford are as good as Trey Smith and Creed Humphrey, are we still having this conversation? Well agree to disagree. I believe the Bills have tried to get Josh more help, and have gotten a combination of unlucky and pulled the trigger on the wrong guys to adequately do so.

And if JuJu broke his ankle week 4, they wouldn't have gotten any value either lol. You said hard to differentiate, I say it's the difference between trying and in many cases failing to get Josh more help and weapons versus not really trying at all.

Simms is wrong. That's not what the Chiefs did. At all. Trading away a top 5 WR and taking a DE and a CB in the first is not going all in on offensive infrastructure. They got lucky and found diamonds in the rough for the OL in the later parts of the draft.

They drafted better players. They also signed better players. The problem is not their allocation of resources as a strategy. It's who they are allocating the resources IN. Big time FA's signed last season: OJ Howard - bum, cut in camp Von Miller - great player, tore ACL midway through season Roger Saffold - bum, worst G in the NFL Jamison Crowder - solid, but hurt early and never returned Daquan Jones - good pickup, but hurt towards the end and missed the Bengals game Come playoffs, we had all FIVE of our larger FA acquisitions not on the field for one reason or another. Part of that is signing sucky players (Saffold/OJ) or just plain old bad injury luck. If we have 2 or 3 or 4 of those guys go the distance, do you think the season is different? I do. Ya'll keep talking about Mahomes like they didn't trade away a top 5 WR last year and get absolutely unquestionably WORSE as a WR group. Agreed with all of this, but especially the bolded. They don't need to be super lucky, but they definitely need better luck. Tre being the #2 cap hit and being a liability, their sad list of FAs from last year who weren't available or didn't work out is a recipe for a team that takes a step back.

A terrible point. Josh Allen, Diggs, Dawkins and Morse are 4 of our top 5 cap hits in 2023. Anyone entertaining Florio saying some dumb ***** is also wrong.