CincyBillsFan
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Posts posted by CincyBillsFan
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I have to disagree about the wide receivers. I saw nothing special and the block by KB was horrible. That kind of play is illegal at all levels of football now and KB should have known it. All he had to do was get his big body in the way and the huge gain holds up. I also heard the announcer repeatably talk about the receivers not getting any separation and that the QB was always having to make perfect throws. Again I ask when was the last time a Buffalo WR or TE broke wide open more than 10 yards down the field?
Anderson had okay numbers, at least with respect to yardage & completion %, but that just goes to show you how meaningless those numbers are if they don't produce points. The fact is on 3rd & 10 Anderson will throw a check down 6 yard pass. He has done this multiple times tonight & last week. It's actually quite smart because it pumps up the stats. Throw in his check down yardage against the Pats prevent defense and the numbers don't tell the story of how bad the Bills passing attack is.
Let's not forget that at home against a below average defense the Bills only managed 2 long FG's. I may be wrong here but Buffalo did not reach the red zone a single time tonight. With the exception of Shady no other Bills skill offensive skill player starts for any other team in the NFL.
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My observations after watching the game at a famous Cincinnati area sports bar which serves decent wings:
* At least the Bills weren't humiliated on MNF like many of us thought they might be.
* Bills fans and the stadium came across great on the big screen TV. The crowd was loud and the place was packed. How many times when they scan NFL stadiums do you see rows of empty seats nowadays. Tonight the Ralph was jam packed with an assortment of colorful characters. The red heat lamp seating zone looked eerie on TV and is unlike anything I've ever seen before. The halftime shots with the stadium darkened and the phone lights shimmering in the air was cool.
* The Bills defense was outstanding. To hold the Pats to less then 20 points and only 1 TD was a great nights work.
* The Bills offense is beyond woeful. Don't be fooled by Anderson's numbers - he's a savvy vet who on 3rd & 13 will take that 8 yard pass all day long. Over the course of a game going to the check down guy on 3rd down will plump up the stats but do nothing to converts 3rd downs. Then when the game is out of reach Anderson knows how to milk a prevent defense for another 75 - 100 yards yet never actually sniff the end zone. Throw in a pick 6 that effectively ended the game and the Bills are putting an historically bad offense on the field.
* Oh & I forgot to note that I don't think the Bills got to the red zone the entire game. Chew on that for a moment and keep in mind that the Pat's D is below average.
* It was interesting how the announcer kept calling out the fact that the Bills WR's & TE's got absolutely NO separation.
* Tonight's game provided further support to me that Shady is the ONLY Bills offensive skill player that would start for ANY OTHER NFL TEAM.
* Why with less then 2 minutes to play and down by 19 were the Bills having Anderson throw the ball? Were they trying to get him hurt? What on earth were they thinking?
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19 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said:
This gives me at least a little more hope but the eye test has been discouraging so far... Hoping he turns it around in his 2nd season and looks more like Luck, Goff, and Manning
My guess is that if you were watching the other rookie QB's as closely as you're watching Allen they wouldn't be passing the eye test either.
It's always fun to check out other teams message boards to see what they're saying. if you did you might be surprised at how many fans in Cleveland are screaming that "Mayfield sucks" or that "Darnold is a bust".
2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:QB Rookie Year Stats since 2015, updated for this week.
This is an interesting stat sheet. It suggests that 1st year performance might not be that important. I mean have you guys seen how Winston & Mariota have been playing lately?
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Wow, a dose of much needed sanity on this board! Thank you.
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Rosen's game against San Fran is the perfect microcosm of a rookie season. Through the first 3 quarters the kid looked awful and had a QB rating of 40. But damn did he have an excellent 4th quarter to lead his team to the win. This is why we need to get Allen out there ASAP. The four teams starting rookies are out of it - there isn't a playoff team among the bunch The ONLY thing that matters this year is how well do they do in developing their rookie QB's. Allen needs to PLAY and LEARN. It's just that simple.
Some additional thoughts on the rookies this week:
* Fitzgerald is worth his weight in gold to a rookie QB like Rosen. This guy is the consummate PRO and is clearly Rosen's security blanket.
* Baker Mayfield is showing us what happens when you play on a bad offensive football team. As the Browns have traded away skill players they have reverted to form and Mayfield is suffering for it. On the plus side for Browns fans they are stock piling draft picks that can be turned into offensive weapons next year.
* Darnold continues to struggle after a solid start to the season. I suspect that this is due to the fact that instead of playing games against defenses ranked in the bottom quarter of the NFL he is now seeing very good defenses - sort of like the defenses Allen was facing.
So where do I rank the 1st round rookie QB's: Mayfield > Darnold, Rosen & Allen >>> Baltimore's gimmick guy. Yep, IMO Darnold, Rosen & Allen have not separated from each other.
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Okay folks I'm excited to report that my time machine is almost done! Once completed I'll set it to drop me off at one Bills Drive right before the trade with KC and I'll make sure I bring Mahomes stat sheet.
I know the tough part will be convincing the Bills management that I'm from the future and I have to hope they don't call the Orchard Park police on me. So do you folks have any ideas as to what else I can bring back with me to convince them? The funny thing is that if it works and we have Mahomes starting for us Monday night I may be the only one to know the real story here.
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39 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:
That's been my position all along.
People act as if the other QB's struggling bodes well for Allen. One has nothing to do with the other.
It's entirely possible that none of these QB's are franchise guys.
99 was the last time a draft class had as much hype. Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Donovan McNabb, Cade Mcnown, and Daunte Culpepper. McNabb and Culpepper were the best of the bunch, but it was a dud overall.
I like to point out how the other rookie QB's are struggling as a way to calibrate Josh Allen's performance. And when you're reading posts on a message board using the performance of the other rookie QB's as support for claiming Allen is a bust it's only natural that some of us want to counter that with the simple fact that most rookie QB's struggle when playing on bad football teams.
And you're right that they all might be busts and conversely they all might be HOFers. It's just to early to tell one way or the other.
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12 minutes ago, mattynh said:
Its too early to tell for both. You make a couple good points, especially about the reps. I am not sure the Jets have a better supporting cast, if they do its marginal. This staff totally mismanaged QB all offseason and we are seeing the result.
For the bolded, on one had I could say both stats suck but the Jets under Darnold gain a lot more yards and score a lot more TD's than the Bills under Allen. Completion percentage and ratings both suck balls. But at least Darnold has some success throwing the ball, Allen really does not as of yet.
I would agree that it's definitely to early. By the end of next season we'll have a sense of how these two will be doing but even then they could either soar or go into a nose dive for the rest of their careers. That's why the panic over Allen by a small but vocal subset of Bill's supporters is so annoying to me.
As for your 2nd point I won't deny that Darnold has led a more robust NY Jet offense compared to the Allen led Bills offense. But to me that is due more to differences in coaching philosophy than any indication of differences between the two QB's. Buffalo, with a better than average defense and a running pedigree simply won't throw it around like the Jets will. Put Darnold on Buffalo and Allen on the Jets and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't swap out each others stats with Allen having more yards, TD's & INT's then Darnold.
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7 hours ago, mattynh said:
Darnold completes 56.1%, 10 TD's, 10 INT's 221.7 ypg and a 74.3 rating
Josh Allen completes 54%, 2 TD's 5 INT's 138.7 ypg and a 61.8 rating.
Darnold throws for 165% more yards than allen per game, has a better rating and TD to INT ratio. Based on the stats Darnold is significantly ahead. Neither are performing in a way that will win you a lot of games but Darnold is throwing for a reasonable volume of yards/td's for a rookie. There are not a lot of signs of life from Allen IMO so far other than a few plays he has made with his legs. Both can improve immensely though given some more experience this year, an offseason of work and an influx of talent. I am not gonna lie though, I worry if Allen can get it together.
But this is a classic case where considering ONLY the stats gives you the wrong answer IMO. A QB's success depends a lot upon the talent around him and the strength of the defenses he faces. In both of these Darnold has a huge advantage over Allen. Darnold has better talent supporting him and he's faced much weaker defenses. Given those two facts alone, Allen's stats are surprisingly competitive versus Darnolds.
And let's not forget that the Jets committed to Darnold right from the git go and he got all of the 1st team snaps in practice & throughout the exhibition games. This is no small thing for a rookie QB.
As others have said it's way to early to make any conclusions as to how good or bad the rookie QB's are. My hope is that Darnold & Allen grow into the type of QB's and divisional rivals that Kelly & Marino were. Wouldn't it be fantastic if ten years from now they're both had great careers and every summer attended each others golf tournaments in Buffalo & NYC.
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Great thread! Some fun & smart comments. My random takes:
* I agree with Shaw's take on the offense - very unimaginative. In fact the only time I can remember where Dabold & company were creative was against Minnesota where after a TO he ran a fake WR screen and had Allen throw to the end zone for a wide open TD. But even here all the Bills did was take advantage of their own extreme predictability.
* I also agree that with Allen out the games are uninteresting. Whether you like or dislike Allen his progress made things interesting. A good throw that was dropped at least had the positive of having been a good throw & read by our rookie QB. Now who cares if Anderson throws for 400 yards and 5 TD's? Seriously, we know he's not any type of solution and that all we are seeing is a freak event. Sort of like when that ***** (sex toy) got thrown onto the field.
* I'm in the camp that believes Allen will be a very good NFL QB. But my confidence that the Bills brain trust won't screw him up has fallen recently.
* I'm also in the camp that no matter how worrisome the head coach and GM's actions are we have to give them more time. A constant turnover in coaching/management simply won't work.
* Monday night should be a hoot. Either the Bills will play way over their heads like on that Monday night game Dallas where they lost at the buzzer on a 54 yard FG or they will get Baltimored. Either way this should make for some fun TV viewing particularly if buttressed by some heavy re-game drinking.
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12 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:
I’d say considering the WRs looked borderline acceptable, he did the opposite of that. QB has been the number 1 issue IMO but it really doesn’t matter. This team sucks. And we get blown out often enough to make me think the coach might suck too
IMO the only reason the WR's looked borderline acceptable was that the Bills were facing the weakest defense they have seen all season. I had the opposite reaction to this game then you did in that it seems to me QB is not the main problem of this offense. I can't think of a team in which any of the Bills receivers or TE's would start. I'm not sure there are any teams out there where these guys would see the field at all. They are that bad.
Until we can assemble competent skill players around whoever is QBing the Bills we can't really judge how good the QB is.
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I thought the WR play was poor today as it's been all season. They seldom break open and on Anderson's last INT the Bills WR was knocked off his route and the DB then ran the route, knocked the pass into the air for an easy INT. That shouldn't happen in college ball let alone the NFL. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record going into today's game the Indy defense was by far the weakest defense the Bills had played this year - 24th in yardage given up and 30th in points given up. So any better play you saw with our receivers had everything to do with Indy's weak pass rush, 4th quarter prevent defense with a big lead and poor DB play.
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7 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:
And how did Allen play against the Vikings defense? At least we can compare another rookie to Allen going head to head against the same team. Allen took this one easily. Especially when so many are saying Allen is so far behind the other rookies. Laughable.
To take your point a step further here's how the 3 QB's compare playing a common opponent within a months time:
Allen 15 - 22 - 196 - 1 TD - 0 INT; notes = Allen had 2 rushing TD's & Bills won game 27 - 6
Rosen 21 - 31 - 240 - 0 TD - 1 INT; notes = Cards lost game 27 - 17
Darnold 17 - 42 - 206 - 1 TD - 3 INT; note = Darnold lost 2 fumbles & Jets lost game 37 - 17
Allen & Rosen played at Minnesota while Darnold was at home. Now to be clear this is a very limited data set BUT it's the only pretty clean comparison we have between the 3 QB's versus a common opponent within a pretty tight time window.
My point is that so far there is no cumulative evidence that Rosen & Darnold are out performing Allen. All you can say is that all 3 have struggled and each has shown flashes of brilliance. And given that Allen was supposed to be way behind the other 2 you could argue that he's exceeding expectations.
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On 10/16/2018 at 5:12 PM, LABILLBACKER said:
Yes he is. His flaws are obvious. And the numbers don't lie.
Qb Rating
Darnold. 83.7
Rosen. 75.5
Mayfield 72.8
Allen. 61.8
....Darnold's wr unit are not much different than ours.
Number can lie with the best of them. Consider the rankings of the defenses each of the rookie QB's have gone against. Allen has faced the toughest D's by far.
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Overall Anderson played poorly but it had more to do with how little time he's been on the roster and the fact that Buffalo has assembled one of the two worst offensive teams in the NFL this year. Frankly I can't think of a single NFL team with wide receivers & tight ends as bad as the Bills.
Let's not forget that Indy was the 24th rated defense in giving up yardage and the 30th rated defense in giving up points. This was the weakest defense Buffalo has played this year. Today's game also tied with the Packers & Ravens games for the worst offensive performance of the year. The only difference is that the Packers & Ravens are top 5 defenses and the Colts are not - by a long stretch.
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Ugly. Very Ugly. Getting blown out by a 1 - 5 team is a bit much. This game did shed some light on several questions that have been bouncing around:
* Any doubts that there is almost no talent on the offense outside of Shady & Ivy were answered today. Let's not forget that going into the game Indy had the 24th rated defense by yards and the 30th rated defense by points given up. By any definition the Colts are a bad defense. In spite of this Buffalo could only score a FG on offense and had FIVE TO's.
* Another question that was answered for me is that our offense is better with Allen in at QB then anyone else on the roster. It's actually surprising that the rookie QB is more careful with the ball then our more experienced QB's.
* How bad were our receivers today. Remember how on Andersen's last INT the Bills WR was pushed off his route by the DB who then ran the route and should have intercepted the pass (it bounced off his hands to get intercepted by a safety). And poor Andersen gets credited with the INT.
* In the long run having a top 5 pick which we can then trade away for a boatload of picks is the silver lining on this cluster frack of a season. Oh and for those saying "draft a QB" - No, Allen will be fine. After seeing Rosen and then Darnold (17 - 42 - 206 - 1TD - 3INT) show out as typical rookie QB's Allen will be fine.
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20 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:
He didn't look very good last night at times, then at times he looked pretty good. Looks way more comfortable throwing from the pocket than Allen. and he was accurate with the ball, even when throwing interceptions.
I saw the game a lot differently then you did that's for sure. Rosen was a wreck out there. He missed several open receivers, threw 3 INTs and should have had 2 more. Was careless with the ball fumbling 3 times & losing 2 of them. His poor start doomed Arizona as they were down 21 - 3 in the 1st largely due to Rosen miscues.
He also appeared to make several audibles on the run game and every time the play went for nothing. Denver was clearly fooling him into thinking he could change the run play/blocking. Most disturbing if I was an Arizona fan was Rosen's demeanor which was piss poor. He openly threw a fit a couple of times after things didn't go his way which won't earn you many friends when your a rookie that's thrown 2 pick-sixes.
Now does last nights game mean Rosen won't be a great NFL QB? Absolutely not. All we saw was what happens when a rookie QB with a weak O-line goes up against a team with a decent pass rush. Kind of like what Allen has faced this year only that in addition to a struggling O-line Allen has very little receiver talent around him.
My bet is that both Allen & Rosen will be at worst solid NFL QB's. But only TIME will tell. What I won't accept is any suggestion that Rosen is the better QB then Allen. Last night should put that to rest.
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4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
The last couple of weeks the Bills OL has been decent. Tonight was a clown show for the ARI OL with both starting Guards out and Von Miller creating havoc.
That's fair and while I think the Cards have a better assortment of receiver options for Rosen then the Bills have for Allen their O-line is clearly inferior to the Bills. But to also be fair the improvement in the Bills O-line play is due to both better play by the Bills linemen and Allen's mobility.
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3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:
It's not teaching us anything about Josh Allen. I'm really not trying to be "that guy," but the celebration about Rosen struggling is a little creepy.
It may not be teaching us anything about Allen but it sure as hell is calibrating Allen's performance relative to one of the other rookie QB's.
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4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
Weird to you because you're new maybe.
Long time lurker though. My point was just that Bills fans and I suspect Cards fans are going to be comparing Rosen & Allen for as long as both are in the NFL. And for the record I think they'll both have long NFL careers.
BTW, why the hell is Rosen still out there? Do they want to get him killed?
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6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
No it doesn't at all. Allen has his own path of development that has nothing to do with Rosen.
Disagree, for reasons beyond either QB's control Allen & Rosen are joined at the hip because of the actions of their teams on draft day. Hell, we're posting on a thread titled "The Rosen Era has Begun in Arizona" on a freaking Buffalo Bills message board! That is weird if you think about it.
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10 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:
You guys do realize that Josh Rosen looking like trash has nothing to with Josh Allen, correct?
Wrong. Rosen is teaching a lot of people on this board that rookie QB's playing on bad offenses tend to struggle big time. On top of that it seems like since the day Allen was drafted by Buffalo, there have been a lot of Bills fans complaining that we should have drafted Rosen. It may not be right but a performance like this by Risen does take some of the pessure off Allen.
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Is it me or has every run audible Rosen made at the LOS resulted in either no gain or a loss?
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2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
Can we all agree that Fitzgerald is a far better receiver today then KB is? It's clear that he's Rosen's security blanket.
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NO points... AGAIN!!!
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Any thoughts that the improved passing yardage the last two games is encouraging should be snuffed out by the following observations:
* Anderson is good at padding his stats by going to the check down receiver almost immediately. Against both Indy & NE he was constantly throwing 6 yard passes on 3rd and 10. The defense will give you those every time. Ditto for his ability to exploit a teams prevent defense when they're ahead by multiple TD's. Now to be clear I don't blame Anderson in the least for this. When he signed on it wasn't to actually have to QB this offense. But it does indicate that we should be careful when looking at the raw passing yardage numbers. The only numbers that really matter are zero TD's the last 2 games and last night we never made it into the Pats red zone.
* We should also keep in mind that the offensive struggles the last 2 weeks have come against the #21 (Indy) and #25 (NE) rated defenses.