RocCityRoller
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Posts posted by RocCityRoller
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31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:
I knew it was only a matter of time before I got into the Davis debate. I think Davis is excellent. I never thought Davis was the 4-TD per game guy we saw in the playoffs, but I think he's an excellent #2. Good hands (I can't explain his drop totals in 2022, but I don't think that's who he is). Decent deep speed - not a burner, but he gets downfield. Good connection with Allen. I love his size. Good red zone threat. Would I like two #1s, like Cincy has, and a few other teams? Sure, but I would much rather find an offensive lineman who can start in year 1 than go after that second #1 guy.
One way to look at #2 is to think of it this way: Who wants Robert Woods in his prime as the #2? I do, and I think most everyone here does. Davis is as complete a player, with a slightly different skill set.
Be careful Shaw. I took it on the chin defending Davis here the other night. A lot of folks here are convinced Davis stinks. The masses are out with the pitchforks.
Davis is a very good WR#2. Ask the mob what WR#2 produced more yards and TDs than Davis, you get a bunch of gibberish and nonsense.
A few exceptions like Cincy that have 2-3 WR#1. (Yep Boyd could be a WR#1 on some teams).
Point out even D Hop himself never passed 60% catch rate his first 5 years in the league and get a bunch of silly responses.
Point out that Davis was equal to or outproduced Hopkins the past two seasons, more gibberish.
At least the D Hop crowd has quieted down a bit.
I think OL and WR3 is the biggest issue. Add a 'between the tackle' RB for me.
I'm as down on 'JuggerKnox' as you are.
A productive WR3 like Beasley goes a long way. But then again TSW wanted him gone too.
Whelp, even a reduced Beasely produced more than the McKenzie/ Crowder/Shakir experiment.
Of course Beasely goes and gets stupid on social media again....
Either way, I agree Diggs and Davis are a nice 1-2 combo.WR3 is a major issue.
Crowder was a bust. Mckenzie failed to rise up, and Harty is fools gold.
Whether it is WR3 or TE, someone has to work the underneath better and be productive.
We agree 100% there.
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2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:
They paid McKenzie more money last year than Crowder … I think they expected both to do the role…in the end they had to get Beasley back…I agree both failed in the role.
I disagree McKenzie was the 'expected' Bease replacement.
Need a WR3 and Harty is fools gold.
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21 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:
And how did Isaiah's stats look compared to Cole Beasley's in any year he was the full time starting slot?
Isaiah was given the starting slot role to fill Cole's shoes. In 2020 Cole had 82 catches. In 2021 Cole had 82 catches. In 2022 Isiah had 42 catches.
That speaks to a lack of getting open.
This is incorrect. Crowder was supposed to be WR3 and fill the slot role.
When Crowder went down, McKenzie was asked to fill the role.
That is how forgettable Crowder was. Mckenzie was not up to the task to rise to WR3 after injury.
He also failed as KR/PR and Hines was brought in.
That is why McKenzie is gone.
Buffalo could have gone more safe at slot insurance than Harty, but swung for big play potential instead.
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20 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:
https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/deonte-harris-player-injuries
While technically true, its more nuanced then that. His first trip to IR was on December 19, 2020th for a neck stinger, not exactly a recurring injury risk.
2019 he was ruled out for 2 games due to a hamstring. Was ruled out again for 1 game 2021 for a hammy.
Last year sent him to IR w/ turf toe w/ week 5 injury. If operated on (it was) its not considered to be a major re-injury risk.
if you want to argue he's too small to hold up through an NFL season that's one thing, but the history is pretty far from being problematic, and unlikely any of these injuries had anything to do with his size. He's an unproven guy with nice upside, and a skill that cant be taught, that several teams were trying to sign. He chose to sign here for less, on a contract we can get out of easily after this year if we don't like it. Sounds like a player willing to work and that's betting on himself.
McK has absolutely proven what he is. I like his odds of beating a 400 yard season. Similar floor to mck, much higher ceiling. Can we let the dude play a game before we all decide he's trash and a dumb signing lol
I agree McKenzie ended up being the answer to no questions. I like Lil Dirty, but not a player that is needed to go forward. But no reason to bag on the guy, as some have done. He was a fun WR4 when Daboll dialed up plays for him. Had a knack for finding 1st downs (30 last year). That is almost 2 per game, or one per half. He also had big time boneheaded plays and some untimely turnovers.
Would not be surprised to see him on the Giants though.
I was alluding to the fact the player 'formerly known as Harris' is 5'6" 170 lbs wet.
I don't think he will hold up and the contract was too rich.
You fleshed out why he missed games, thanks for the info.
But Harty has missed a lot of games. He will be compared to Mckenzie for the next season or two.
The fact is he did end 2 of 4 seasons on IR.
Not a fan of the signing, but that doesn't mean you keep McKenzie instead either.
I would have gone with a Berrios or James signing to help fill slot or WR4 duties for the same or less money.
If a guy can produce in a Daboll offense (James) he may produce here too...
That is my line of thinking.
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12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
The only thing this draft is "heavy" on is mediocre football players.
I agree that this draft is missing a lot of top end talent. I do think it has good value in rounds 3-5. Maybe a good steal in the 2nd.
I'd be thrilled to get Bergeron in the second.
Are you hoping for a trade back, or to trade the first for a player?
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6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:
Most of the conversation between us amateurs has been around a simple "27th overall for Jeudy" deal. Would you do that?
Good question, since that is not the current asking price.
Last I checked, Denver was looking for more than MN got for Diggs in exchange.
I don't know if Denver has backed off the ask price, I've been enjoying the NCAA tourney the past couple of days.
I might pull the trigger at #27 for Jeudy. Nothing more, but I'm waiting till draft day.
I really like the idea of trading back this draft and picking up a 2nd and 3/4th for a lot of reasons.
It doesn't seem like a good 1st round draft for franchise changers, much less at #27.
I'd let Denver know I'll trade them #27 for Jeudy in the first round, unless there is a player I want (Avila etc)
Likewise if a team wants to trade me their #2 and #3/#4 for our #1 I would probably do that too.
I'm really 'meh' on Jeudy, but I think he is probably better than any WR Buffalo could draft at #1, especially outside.
But if I trade a first for a WR, I need to get a guy that can be by #1 in a season or two. Like Diggs. (1/4/5/7)
I don't know if Jeudy is that guy. Out of the current options available, he may be the best bet.
Getting 2 more years on a rookie contract +1 year of contract control does sweeten that deal.
Denver knows this, but wants too much for a guy who never broke 1k receiving for a season.
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3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:
Digging his own grave
I am a big Beasley fan, but this was a really dumb post.
Jets are pretty stacked at WR, he gained nothing by this post.
Small chance he could have been brought into camp to see if he still has anything left to offer.
Pretty sure that is gone now.
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6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:
Not sure either… but fans acting like Beanes hands are tied/there is nothing he can do are just making excuses for him… If they want a dynamic WR opposite Diggs they can make it happen, I just don’t think it’s a priority for them.
I know you are big time in the Jeudy/ OBJ/ Hopkins or bust camp. It is a popular trend here.
I will agree with you that the top end talent in this draft is meh.
Few if any identifiable future WR1 in this draft.
I know my thoughts on D Hop are well known on this board. Same with OBJ.
What exactly has Jeudy done in this league to make you think he is the boom or bust answer to WR?
If Denver wanted a 2nd this year and a conditional pick next year, I would consider that.
But a 1st and a second and other considerations? No way.
Not with the holes/ contracts/ age on this team.
I'd rather trade down the 1st for a 2nd and 3/4th than blow 2 high picks on Jeudy.
If that happened, and the higher 2nd could be traded, draft day for him, yeah, I would consider that too.
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2 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:
If that is what the team wants, you can get a short yardage guy who can plow through for 1 yard in the 7th round of the draft.Thoughts on Mohamed Ibrahim? I like a 6-7th on him for that very role.
Check him out if you haven't.I'm not married or hot blooded to getting Fournette. Just wanted to point out the 'pro' argument for him.
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Good list overall. As much as I like Jack Campbell (LB) I just think he is a 1st round reach. His film is good, but not great.
I think Dorian Williams (Tulane) would be a good fit in this defense much later.
A lot of the WR who could be available in this draft are smaller/ fast or quick WR. It just so happens Buffalo needs a slot WR.
The Bills clearly missed Beasely's production at WR3. Crowder and Lil Dirty are gone. Harty is 5'6 170 and injury prone.
Is Shakir the answer? Would be aok with one of the smallish top WR falls to Buffalo. I like Hyatt and Flowers the most.
Hyatt is a Mecole Hardman type with better potential.
Flowers is more the safe chain mover Beasley type.
Torrance seems boom or bust in the NFL...
Not sure this draft is top heavy. Seems stockpiling a 2nd and a 3rd/4th for the first may be a better move.
Get a Bergeron and Campbell in the 2nd.
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1 minute ago, NewEra said:
That’s unlikely to be what happens imo.
Harty is a fumble machine on special teams but never on offense.
agree to disagree. We shall seen soon! 👊🏻
At the moment, pre draft, who do you see as WR3?
I still think WR3 and OL are the biggest needs on offense.
As much as I liked Lil Dirty, he was not the answer.
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11 minutes ago, DCofNC said:
Wow, I like this much more than I initially did. That’s a nice deal especially with the ability to cut him next season if he slows down like he did at the end of this year. Nice work Beaner!
I’d be ok with upto a 3rd round pick on a safety. No offense to Hamlin, but we’re it not for the crazy event, most would be looking for an upgrade over him this year. He didn’t show a whole lot on the field. He seems like a class act and obviously, it’s awesome he plans to return, but I wouldn’t bank on him as an impact player.100% agree
Hamlin is a nice S#4 before Cincy.
Add in Hyde's injury and age and Poyer's age and S needs to be considered.
Plenty of successful S drafted in mid to late rounds, but it should be addressed.
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20 minutes ago, NewEra said:
Watch the FA recap cover1 did yesterday. Good dialog and film review. He’s better than you think and I’m confidant that the Bills will use him as more than a gadget guy
5'6" 170? Two IR ending seasons... I hope not.
I've yelled at teenagers to get off my lawn that are bigger than him.
I'm hoping he is PR/KR and Hines gets more play in the offense.
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10 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:
Gut feeling tells me he'll be back ... Of course that could be the stuffed peppers.
have you seen the price of produce recently?
Ask for Harty's equivalent weight in peppers and onions and Lil Dirty may make out well in the deal!
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Can I take a life insurance policy on Joe Burrow?! 🤣
But then again even some here assume a good RT is not a valuable position....
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5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:
Seems to miss the other part
510k of his 4.5M are in game bonuses. So has to play all games to get that full cash
Thanks, the Twitter I saw did not clarify that well.
Good contract overall, one of my favorite McBeane era defenders.
Still want Bills to make some investments in S this season. The writing is on the wall for our beloved S duo, and I am not big on Hamlin being the replacement.
And yes, that was before the events in Cincy.
What a great opportunity for a 3-5th round S to come in and learn from two of the best.
Would also be insurance in the event Hyde's recovery takes a set back, or Hamlin is not cleared IMO.
Gervarrius Owens (Houston) would be a nice 4-6th round type of guy who could learn and back up these two.
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19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:
It’s a mediocre room and probably 3rd in its own division behind NYJ and Mia… but sure.
Or they can just make all that easier for everyone and upgrade opposite Diggs instead of more defense… but yea sure, could happen. Not likely IMO.
With whom?
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1 hour ago, ngbills said:
Hopefully Harty is better. We are paying lot more for him than Singletary.
In his best season Harty generated 23 first downs.
BBQ generated 30 last season.
Harty has finished the season on IR 2x out of 4 seasons.
Lil Dirty... nope
I understand cutting ways with McKenzie. He was an adventure at KR/PR, and he could not rise to the occasion as a WR3.
Nor sure Harty is anymore than a PR/KR, gadget guy though.
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22 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:
Number s
$510k per game seems a typo
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On 3/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Mr. WEO said:
McKenzie has made 5.9 million over 5 seasons with the Bills. In 2023, he would account for under 8% of the total WR annual salary for the team. For that money last year, he accounted for 20% of the TDs scored by WRs, 24% of targets and 19% of catches.
That's "extremely overpaid"?
He also created 30 first downs last season
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1 hour ago, GETTOTHE50 said:
i think he makes sense. doesnt have the best hands out of the back field, but hes a tougher runner than motor. not sure how he is on pass blocking
Ended up showing decent hands with Brady as QB.
Tampa was one of 2 teams with 2 RBs having more than 50 targets last year (Cincy and TB), and Fournette produced more than one thinks.
Career 80%+ catch rate. 2200+ yards receiving over 6 seasons.
@350 yards per season receiving for a guy considered a battering ram.
I don't put him 'in space' or downfield and expect a catch, but Cook and Hines is here for that anyway.
Vet minimum for players with 3-6 years is about $1.08m
Would offer 2 years $3m
Vet minimum for 2 seasons +@$500k a season in signing bonuses and escalators.
5 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:I have never understood the infatuation with this guy. He basically bulls forward for 3 yards.
3rd and 1 from your own 40, or 4th and goal from the 1.
Do you want your QB taking that hit, or a battering ram?
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4 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:
So RocCity do we extend Gabe now?
Since he’s the answer at #2?
Do you acknowledge at all that he has a limited skill set?
This is a fair question. And yes I do, while Gabe Davis is still a value.
He is not a WR #1. He is an excellent WR#2.
I have run the metrics on every WR with 50+ targets for the whole league.
By every metric other than catch %, Davis is a top 30 WR in the league.
It matches what I see. A lot of the 'non catches' are thrown away balls Davis was near.
He has limits. I agree.
But what he does well is well within WR #2 bounds, and he tickles WR1 stats on many things.
I would extend him now, 'cheaply' People here will be astounded by what he will garner on the FA market next year.
This was a Beane 'hit' IMO.
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56 minutes ago, arcane said:
Davis is severely limited in the routes he runs, and the ones he's good at take forever to develop, which is part of why Allen's stats are so bad/throws to Davis are so off compared to other WRs. Hopkins is exponentially more well-rounded than Gabe, even if he hasn't stayed on the field for various reasons and is older etc.
He had those numbers in half the games played of Gabe, on a dreadful offense with a dreadful qb who was hurt anyway
I don't even want to trade for Hopkins but this is a misleading comparison at absolute bestHow do you know this is not the case with Davis?
Hopkins was WR#2 to Johnson for 2 years. He was sub 60% for 5 years though.... why?
I think Johnson is one of the most underrated WR of all time.
DHOP was still sub 50% with him. Some guys are productive but take time to excel.
Year 6 was when DHOP broke 60%. Houston liked him for the other metrics.
We should look at the other metrics with Gabe Davis too.
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1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:
So in your eyes we’re just fine with Davis?
No need to try and add anything else but a slot?
OL and Slot WR fixes a lot of what ails us.
Also do not forget Knox and RB.
Lil dirty update - McKenzie released
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Fair enough. Diggs is 30 and nearing contract end.
I am not as down on Davis as much of this board, but what will he ask for in a year?
Problem is the best WR in this draft are smaller slot guys. Not a lot of top end 6'0" 200lb productive guys in this draft.
Draft a good slot guy, since the loss of Beasley's production hurt this offense and try again next season for the outside guy.
I guess that adds a lot to the Jerry Jeudy argument.