RocCityRoller
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Posts posted by RocCityRoller
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Just now, Bornafan66 said:
I'd like this a lot. Whether or not the Bills get Luck there is certainly going to be more wheeling and dealing up to and during the draft. Great off season so far.
With the cap as it is, trades are becoming more acceptable now.
Why not make the offer?
Foles-Reich connection, Philly in cap prison, Foles to indy, Reich-Buffalo connection, make an offer.
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6 minutes ago, Bornafan66 said:
How do you know Luck isn't available?? I'd certainly make the call and find out.
Exactly
Look at the Colts position. It is a total rebuild. They have the #3 pick in a deep QB class. Dumping 75 Million in cap and grabbing two more first rounders is a smart move when dealing low.
For the Bills it's a better gamble than Cousins, Foles or a rookie.
and there is a connection, not to mention Foles could go to Indy with Reich there and Philly being in cap Hell.
but hey what do I know?
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12 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:
Another Andrew Luck post? There shouldn't even be one. He's reportedly ready to roll this season. Reich is not outing him for anything. Nor should he.
Look at the Colts position. It is a total rebuild. They have the #3 pick in a deep QB class. Dumping 75 Million, and grabbing two more first rounders is a smart move when dealing low.
For the Bills it's a better gamble than Cousins, Foles or a rookie.
and there is a connection
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Just now, KelsaysLunchbox said:
If we make a trade to Indy I'd rather use all those high draft picks it would take to get Luck to get that #3 pick and get Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold.
thank you for a reasoned response.
Do you think #21 and #22 will get to the pick needed for Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold? I think it will take 3-4 picks due to draft pick value and the teams looking for QB.
I think Indy is full scrap down, rebuild mode. Get rid of salary, have #3, #21, #22 to rebuild with a new coach and sell off assets.
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Among all the QB topics here and around the NFL boards I have not seen much conversation about Andrew Luck.
Most of the buzz centers around free agent Kirk Cousins at 25-30 million a year. By trading Taylor the Bills gained 10 million this year on the cap, and will be 80-90 million under the cap next year when dead cap space is freed up. Financially the Bills are technically back in the running for Kirk Cousins, but questions remain about Cousins being an average or slightly above average QB able to win games. There are also suitors willing to throw ridiculous amounts of guaranteed money at him (Vikings, Jets).
The next QB tier is the Nick Foles/ Case Keenum level. Nick Foles is apparently commanding a 1st and 4th from Philadelphia coming off his big playoff run and Super Bowl MVP, a classic buy high scenario. Case Keenum also had a terrific run last year but has had an up and down career. Both proved to be clutch performers when called upon and could be reaching a 4-5 year 'Rich Gannon' halo level. Both also have been career backups and journeymen and seem to be mid-tier, system dependent starters. If in the right situation and surrounded by strong teams, they can be successful. Does Buffalo meet those requirements?
After that level we have AJ McCarron who will require draft picks too, and has a very small sample size (a la Rob Johnson), Mike Glennon who has never wowed anyone, underwhelming Matt Moore, always injured Sam Bradford, Josh McCown who is almost as old as me, and Teddy Bridgewater who is a poor man’s Tyrod Taylor coming off a major injury. None of these are a real day one starting QB you trade Tyrod away for. Fine backups for certain, but not starters for a team coming off of a playoff appearance and looking to win now with a veteran roster, or build with for the future.
McBeane has stated they would not move on from Tyrod unless they had a plan in place. None of the above meet that requirement and will demand a significant investment in cap space or picks.
At 21 and 22, the Bills could let the draft fall to them and hope for an Aaron Rogers or Russel Wilson situation. They could try to package picks for a QB and move up, but who is the target? All of the top 6 QB prospects have question marks. Whether it is completion %, arm strength, maturity, size, clutch performances or competition level, none is the ideal guy you gamble the house on, but many are intriguing for a relatively new HC/GM combo without a QB in place.
Buffalo will have to give up three picks minimum, likely four to move to the 3-6 pick range, if they can find a partner to snag who they want, and a lot of teams in that range also could use a QB. There are more teams with draft capital that could move up and leave Buffalo in another Big Ben draft situation leaving our Bills with another Losman. Can a team with so many holes afford to mortgage their future for an unproven commodity with a lot of question marks?
Buffalo actually has enough cash and enough draft picks to make any scenario above possible.
Look around the NFL.
Who has a proven starter at QB, at a buy low point, on a contract that looks like a bargain for the next few years when compared to Cousins, is in line with Foles for draft capital, and is a McBeane type character experiencing a regime change?
Andrew Luck in Indianapolis does. Indianapolis has about 5 QBs under contract, the #3 pick in the draft, and a former QB in place as a new HC in Frank Reich.
Wouldn't Frank Reich like to have a say in his future QB? Most new HC/GM want 'their guy' to lead the team and succeed or fail with that guy. He did help develop Carson Wentz, who fell into a dream scenario with a strong team, a HC that was a career backup QB in Doug Petersen, and Frank Reich as OC. Frank Reich has strong ties to Buffalo. Would Reich do Buffalo a solid by trading Luck to them?
What if Buffalo could get Luck with the two first round picks this year (#21 and #22)?
Why would Indy do it?
If Indy traded Luck to Buffalo they would free up significant cap space to build around, and have three total picks in the top 22 this year to rebuild with. Indy already has the #3 pick in this year's draft and would free up about $75 million more in cap space over the next three years.
Look at the draft. With the Tyrod trade, Cleveland can take S. Barkley at #1 safely and have a solid run game and game manager that limits turnovers and show a marked improvement in wins now. At #2, do the Giants aim for the fences at a QB to replace Eli or do they build up the team for one last run? I'm guessing they go defense like LB Chubb and pair him with newly acquired LB Ogletree to build up the defense, and make a run with a healthy Beckham back. That leaves Indy at the #3 pick, able to pick any QB to rebuild with. At #4 Cleveland still could go QB for the future too.
What would Buffalo get? With the Tyrod trade Buffalo could absorb Luck's contract which is about $25 million this year. Would you rather pay Luck or Cousins 25-30 million a year? Buffalo would still have room to sign an impact player (DE Adrian Clayborn), or sign/resign a few Poyer/Hyde style mid level players. DT Beau Allen, WR Donte Montcreif, and LBs Preston Brown, Zach Brown, and Nigel Bradham range come to mind. Even trading away the two firsts, the Bills would still have their 2 second round picks, and 2 third round picks to build around Luck, and be able to address the defensive front seven, OL and WR positions as needed based on free agency.
In Bufffalo Luck would have a solid OL, especially if Glenn is healthy. In that case, Dawkins should kick out to RT as he was originally drafted for, and give Luck the best pair of tackles he has had. Incognito is still solid at LG for a year or two. The Bills also have Groy at C who started many games that Wood missed a year ago without missing a beat. Let Ducasse and Miller fight it out at RG under the new scheme. PFF rated Ducasse as an avg RG last year, and Miller was the most improved RG the year before the zone blocking scheme was implemented. The Bills could use a pick to beef up the interior OL too, to protect Luck.
At RB, Luck would have a veteran thunder and lightning RB combo in McCoy and Ivory. Between the two of them, there should be plenty of gas left in the tank, and a good understanding of pass blocking. Better than the Richardson and Brown combo he had in Indy for many seasons.
WR/TE it is underwhelming at first, but Benjamin is the huge target Luck never had in Indy. TY has been fantastic, but is small. Indy hasn't had a big receiver like Benjamin. Clay is a solid TE that can block and catch. Jones is in his second year, surgically repaired, and should be moved to the slot. The signing of a mid level WR like Montcreif would add familiarity, Hurns would add another boundary WR so Jones could move inside, or Richardson who would add speed to beef this area up. A draft pick could also be made here.
Buffalo is not the worst proposition that could be made to Luck. Both teams have work to do to compete for a championship, but both teams would benefit. Both are in the midst of regime changes, but I feel Buffalo is more ready to win now with a few savvy moves.
Is Andrew Luck in the prototype buy low scenario?
Is Andrew Luck still considered a franchise QB?
Would you pick up his contract for this year’s 2 first round picks?
If not who would you prefer? Why?
Would Indy even consider 2 first round picks for him to do a true rebuild under a new HC?
What is the most you would trade to Indy for him since Buffalo has 6 picks in the first three rounds?
Is he healthy enough for the risk?
What do you think?
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Another QB to consider
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by RocCityRoller
Let me simplify it for you then:
Eagles in cap prison
Reich was OC of SB winning Eagles - Foles won SB as MVP QB of Eagles
Reich named HC to Indy, Indy is a mess and in total rebuild mode, but has #3 pick in draft in a QB heavy draft. If only Frank Reich understood QBs.
Philly to Reich - "want a QB?, we spent too much, we were drunk signing Bennett, the QB is super cheap, only 7 mil a year", they said like a crack head selling stolen bottles of liquor for $10 outside your local 7-11"
Reich to Philly - "but I have Luck and #3, I'm fine, I told ESPN and Twitter"
Philly to Reich - "The QB is SB MVP, why not have a #3 and the SB MVP? Are you sure your other QB is 100% for your first year as a HC?"
"Would you rather have SB MVP and draft a QB at #3 to bring in fans, or test your Luck?"
Reich to Philly - "send me Foles, what do I owe you?"
Philly to Reich - "a second and 3rd, friendly discount and out of conference"
Reich to Philly - "That is a bit pricey, it's only Foles"
Philly to Reich - "That stupid McBean only offered me a 2nd, do a little better for me Frank, I can't give it away"
Reich to himself - "if only I knew of a team I like that needs a QB, especially one with a lot of draft picks in the first round to help me rebuild this team and free up cap space"
Reich to Buffalo - "I see you need a QB, we have Foles, the SB MVP, and a future #3 pick QB now. Any interest in our decent but slightly banged up QB since we need to rebuild? He declined a bit previously, but is pretty good."
McBeane to Reich - "I suppose we could use a QB, though we are good with Peterman, and spending 4 picks to move up for a totally unknown quantity, or spend 100 million on an a slightly above avg QB. This is the genius of TBD. We do have some draft wiggle though."
Reich to McBeane - "I'll tell you what, #21 and #22, maybe a third too?"
McBeane to Reich - "21 & 22 or it's a no deal"
Reich to McBeane - "well it's a hard bargain, but ok. I'll roll with SB MVP, #3 pick QB, #21 and #22, dump 75 Million in salary and be called stupid on "Two Bills Drive" for it.
McBeane to Reich - "Thank goodness, we didn't really want to roll with Peterman, or those other options, and everyone knows TBD is a bunch of wankers anyway." "Trust the Process, Frank"