ngbills
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Posts posted by ngbills
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3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:
As a duo, Woods and Watkins produced almost identically per game to their previous years here. The only difference was their roles flipped. And yes, it's fair to look at them as a duo because when they're on the field on any given play only 1 of them can get the ball thrown to them.
Let's look at 2015 (their first year with Tyrod) vs 2017 (their first year with Goff)
2015:
27 Combined Games (13 for Watkins, 14 for Woods)
176 Targets (96 for Watkins, 80 for Woods)
107 Catches (60 for Watkins, 47 for Woods)
1,599 Yards (1,047 for Watkins, 552 for Woods)
12 TDs (9 for Watkins, 3 for Woods)
2017:
27 Combined Games (15 for Watkins, 12 for Woods)
155 Targets (85 for Woods, 70 for Watkins)
95 Catches (56 for Woods, 39 for Watkins)
1,374 Yards (781 for Woods, 593 for Watkins)
13 TDs (8 for Watkins, 5 for Woods)
So was it really that amazing that in the same number of combined games played the duo got 12 fewer catches for 225 fewer yards, but 1 more TD?
Dont post the facts. It does not fit the narrative. Our WR's are awesome and Tyrod just sucked.
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1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:
On the decline? They're 26. Matthews was playing with a rookie and Cam was hurt and had easily his worst season in the NFL.
As for Hogan and Woods...More Yards and touchdowns on less targets as #2 or 3 options in a better offense. Goodwin with more targets and more varied targets at that.
It really is that simple.
What makes him a #2? When healthy, he is a nice X receiver, which is what this team has desperately needed. He might not be a number #1 in the sense that he will put up game breaking numbers, but he is a #1 in the sense that he will draw and can beat man coverage, allowing the other receivers to play off the line of scrimmage and be schemed open.
Their numbers have been down. Not just with the Bills but prior to joining them. It is not all about age. Could be injuries having a long term effect, drive, who knows what. But fact is - look at the stats. They were on the decline. Then the teams got rid of them. Then both played through injuries and still continued to post declining stats. That is the reality. It was not because they had bad QB play.
Again, Hogan and Woods. Slightly better in offenses much more centered around throwing the ball. Not night and day different.
Goodwin - more targets, more playing time. Until 2016 he barely saw the field as a WR. He was improving and we did not get see him as a Bill in 2017.
Jordan Matthews, Kelvin Benjamin, Chris Hogan, Marquise Goodwin, and Robert Woods
Would that be an impressive group of WR?
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8 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:
Jordan Matthews and Kelvin Benjamin were more productive prior to coming to Buffalo, and Chris Hogan, Marquise Goodwin, and Robert Woods were more productive after leaving. I think it is safe to say that QB play and offensive philosophy were a contributing factor to the current impression most fans have regarding our WR core.
As for slot guy vs. outside guy...flanker and slot aren't all that different, functionally. Most guys that can play slot can play flanker just fine, and clearly Benjamin is our primary Split End (if we don't split a second TE). The mix will be fine.
Not that simple.
Matthews and Benjamin were both nagged by injuries here and both were clearly on the decline. Go look at the game logs for them. There is like 2 100 yd games between them in the last season prior to coming here.
Look at Hogan and Woods number. Really not that different from here. Woods 65, 47 and 51 catches the last 3 years in Buffalo and 56 this year. Hogan was 41 and 36 here and 38 and 34 there. Would not call these wow numbers after leaving. Goodwin never really got a shot or put it together here. In 2016 he started getting more involved and was gone the next year. Who knows what he could have done if he was a bill. Bills could have used him as a deep threat. Could he have caught 50 balls? Maybe...
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20 minutes ago, billspro said:
That video is tough to watch, Tyrod has two WRs wide open on a game winning drive and doesn't pull the trigger. I hope we find a competent passing game next year.
Wide open? Dont really see it that way. Even so, pick one play and say this shows our wr's are good? Here are highlights. More than one play, so does this mean Tyrod was really a good qb?
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4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:
No one said that because McD doesn’t know him. He only played in carolina 1 year, and that was last year.
no one has said he’s legit or that he’s, as you put it, the “answer to their WR woes”
we just predicted they would bring him in because 1) he’s a WR 2) he was decent in Tampa to the point where Carolina signed him in FA and Beane was still there when they did and 3) he is a very strong ST player which they require for depth players
I meant it more as sarcasm and a general mindset we see on here a lot. "Trust the process" and dont question or debate anything because the McBeane team knows whats going on.
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15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
I am confused as to the point that you are trying to make? He isn’t a good receiver now and wasn’t when he became one. He’s a good athlete but that’s about it. I’m not even sure if we are in agreement or not. All that I was saying is his LSU stats are meaningless because he switched positions and tried to learn to be a slash guy. It makes no difference if the Bills bring him in or not.
I get confused on here too. I think we agree - he is not a good WR and has enough time now to show that. Good athletic guy but about it. I am so used to hearing "MCD knows him so he must be legit, etc"
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1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:
He was recruited as a QB. He was one of the top recruits in the country. It wasn’t really the wildcat as much as he was a bad passer. He was a slash player that wasn’t a talented enough skill player to play ahead of others there. His LSU stats really don’t tell much of the story, good or bad.
And he has been a WR for either 5 or 8 years now...
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Just now, Kirby Jackson said:
He was a QB
He was a QB in the wildcat his freshman year. He played WR/RB the next three years.
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5 years in the league.
47 Rec for 600 yds, 4td's
Last year CAR had no WR's and he still had minimal impact.
In TAM it was Mike Evans and nobody and he had minimal impact.
Was undrafted out of LSU
At LSU was a contributor but not a star. Caught 6 passes his senior year.
Yep - He solves all of our woes at WR...
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15 hours ago, Paul Costa said:
Totally disagree on your opinion on OL. There was a reason we let Glenn go. Dawkins is better. Groy played well in Wood’s absence 2 years ago. I’m going to be optimistic and say that’s a push. I thought Richie took a step back last year. And he will be 35 when the season starts. He did go to the pro bowl last year ( fan vote). Hoping we can get Miller or someone else to step up and replace him. I think our OL will be better than almost everyone else. I agree we need to add another WR. In reality maybe not till August. McCarron will be a much better passer than Tyrod. But how much better will he make the Bills Offense overall ?
Could be right could be wrong. Most would say when you lose three guys like we did that there is a good chance the unit will be worse.
But if your saying the guys that were back ups are actually better than the starters then we have issues with our coaching staff. So I would hope that's not the case. I think its more:
Glenn - Expensive, not producing at his pay grade and didnt want to be here. That is not = Dawkins is a better player.
Wood - The team wanted him, he is injured. He would have been the starter and now they need to start his back up.
Incognito - The team wanted, he is gone. Now we have to start his back up.
In my mind that is three better football players now gone. Replaced by three inferior players.
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2 hours ago, JohnC said:
The TT aficionados are resentful of him. They want him dispatched to the ash heap so they can maintain their narrative about their favorite running qb.
Or they just saw him play and didnt like what they saw...including the worse half of QB play ever. I am sorry but its hard to get excited from anything he showed. Nothing to do with Tyrod. If Peterman was on any other team no one on this board would want him.
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Just now, njbuff said:
I heard all the stupid rhetoric last year about how bad this team is and they still made the playoffs.
McDermott and Beane are molding this team into their image and this regime is NOTHING like previous regimes here.
The negative rhetoric has EVERYTHING to do with the failures of previous regimes. I will give these guys the benefit of the doubt.
Everybody talks about how bad the WR position is, but it is entirely possible that Benjamin stays healthy and Jones improves in his second season. People forget about that.
Disagree. I think most skeptics are basing this on:
OL - 2-3 lost starters. Marginal at best replacements.
WR - Awful group and possibly worse with some departures.
QB - Completely unknown. None of them have been a starter in the league, none have seen much playing time at all. Combine that with a new OC and this OL and WR crew its tough.
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8 minutes ago, dneveu said:
Regression on O? How much worse could we get? 22nd in points and 29th in yards... 3 points in our first playoff game in like 20 years. Hopefully Daboll can come up with something better than run-run-pass-punt.
Plenty of room to go down from 22nd.
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23 minutes ago, Mat68 said:
Where were the analytics people hiding at when Taylor was top 10 Qb rating Qbr, completion %, has top 5 TD/int ratio? Allen will never be the most efficent qb because he will push the ball down the field. When Allen had 3 NFL fringe talents in his offense he held a better passer rating than Rosen. College stats. In the same offense scheme. In 15 less college games than Wentz, Allen threw for 50 less yards and 1 less TD. Sure SD st dominated Wentz sat alot of 4th quarters, but not 15 games worth or even 7. A small section of the media and fan base are going to be unbearable for Allens career. Who was it that said Allen was 10 for 12 but 1 for 3 on throws over 10 yards? Come on get over yourself. If you watched Allen play his innaccuracy were swing passes and short routes to the weakside of the play.
You are way off with your Carson Wentz vs Allen numbers. Your counting 19 games that Wentz "played". He started 23 games and Allen started 25 games. Keep it real.
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27 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:
I posted this in another thread, but it underscores how the comp. % can be misleading...
On 3rd down and 7-9 yards (aka the money down/distance for quarterbacks) in 2017
Player A: 10/24 for 132 yards and a pick. 8 first downs.
Player B: 13/22 for 124 yards and a TD. 7 first downs.
Player C: 15/22 for 236 yards and a TD. 10 first downs.
Player D: 16/28 for 162 yards and a TD. 10 first downs.
Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen....and that doesn't even factor in running.
Where those other guys gained tons of ground on Allen was on first and second down, where they threw 2-3x more often and all 4 completed a significantly higher number (easier throws and soft coverage).
http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/player/522/1057661/passing/situational.html
http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/player/811/1073959/passing/situational.html
http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/player/657/1072773/passing/situational.html
http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/player/110/1070189/passing/situational.html
I would say looking overall at 3rd down stats - it is Bayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen. Funny that is the draft order of them.
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32 minutes ago, ddaryl said:
oh but that elusive 32nd spot is there for the taking [/joking]
Maybe not - Daboll has been there before.
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If its this simple what went wrong for Daboll in the past?
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You can break down things so many ways. Only time will tell. I do not like the adjustment for drops or this or that. You would have to make those adjustments to every other QB's throws as well. And the logic of talent level - yes his team was less talented but they also played against less talent.
Lets see what this guy does when he gets to camp, when he plays some snaps against NFL talent. Until then its anyone's guess.
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4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:
You must have made a lot of money with your scouting skill back then.
What NFL scouts told the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn before the draft about quarterback Aaron Rodgers:
Rich Snead, Tennessee: "He had to go to a JC because no one would recruit him because they said he was too small. He's been busting his (expletive) his whole life to get to this point. I just don't know how much more he has to give."
AFC scout: "I think he has some upside although there are some things that are just ordinary about him."
NFC scout: "I think he has a good chance of being a bust. Just like every other Tedford-coached quarterback. Thing I struggle with him is he gets sacked a lot. He doesn't have great ability to change the release of the football. He's mechanically very rigid. Brett Favre can change his release point and find different windows. There will be more growing pains with Alex Smith but in the end he has a much better chance to be much better."
NFC scout: "The guys that Tedford has had, what have they developed into? They're too well-schooled. So mechanical. So robotic. I don't know if they become good pro players. I think Rodgers is in that same mold."
AFC scout: "I don't like him. He's a clone of Harrington and Boller. They all throw the same way. What have those guys done? Nothing. If you take him in the second round, fine. Heady guy. They do a marvelous job of coaching quarterbacks there. I don't think he's as good as the top quarterbacks coming out last year."
AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."
AFC scout: "He's a system quarterback. 3-, 5-, 7-step guy. Can't create on his own. Panics under pressure. Gets flustered easy. I don't think there's a quarterback in the draft worthy of a first-round pick. I'm dead serious. None of them are worth it."
NFC scout: "He fit right into the Cal system. He probably executed that as well as anybody. He doesn't have as strong an arm as Boller but can make the same reads and play the scheme as well as Boller did."
I expected SF to take him #1 that year. I would have taken him in a heartbeat at the time. Like I said I watched him in practice all the time as I was working with the Cal sports dept at the time. The guy had it and it was obvious. Go watch his game vs USC. Look at how he elevated that team and what they were without him.
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5 hours ago, FearLess Price said:
These are facts everyone forgets. When he had Sammy and at least Goodwin on the field, he was looking for the chunk play downfiled. KB isnt burning anyone with his speed and Zay Jones had a bad rookie season. Either way we need tp get JA the right weopons for him to succeed. Our WR room is still meh. We still have no #1 WR
Yes - Its not about liking Tyrod or liking Allen. The QB of this team needs better weapons.
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2 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:
I liked Tyrod but he just couldn't utilize some of the weapons on our roster. For instance, He struggled with throwing the ball to Benjamin and Jones. Hoping he gets a chance with Cleveland, he can give them a couple of wins and maybe take them to their first playoff in a while. That's my hope. I really wish the kid the best. That being said, I have never had an excitement for a Buffalo QB the way I'm excited about Allen. His potential is Rodgers. I know we've had trouble finding a QB using potential as the main reason but this is a different regime and a different offense. We have a redzone target in Benjamin, when healthy is one of the biggest mismatches in the league. Allen is not like Tyrod, he is more willing to throw the ball deep down the field and throw it up to Benjamin. Tyrod seemed to not take advantage of that mismatch. I know Benjamin was a bit slow due to injury but he was targeted far too few times. Allen will throw the ball up to Benjamin, he's wants the home run plays and the big chunk plays. I love that mentality. Here's to Allen becoming the next great Buffalo QB!
Rodgers was extremely accurate. I was at many Cal practices and it was amazing to watch. Go watch the Cal v USC game when he completed like 20 straight oasses. This is not Allen.
In terms of throwing downfield, I included the Tyrod videos at V Tech to show how willing he is throw downfield. He did so in college and early on with the bills.
For the record Tyrod had limited weapons. KB was useless with his injuries. Jones was a huge disappointment.
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20 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:
He has that similar trait to Tyrod except he is willing to throw the ball downfield more than Tyrod in those situations. Allen doesn't look to escape the pocket to dump the ball down, he is looking for chunks.
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22 hours ago, ddaryl said:
This thread is about scouting reports, and You've lost track of that and are now crusading because you don't like my opinion on it. My opinion isn't changing. If we are going by stats sheets and scouting reports I will take a 2 year performer over a QB who left one school went to a jr college then back to div 1 for 1 year of production worth noting.
The scouting reports were almost identical
If they were actually coming out at the same time I would reviewed lots of tape and made a more informed decision but this thread is about the scouting reports. I added stats in because it favored Allen IMO a sI do not like 1 year wonders at the QB position. Just my personal opinion not going to change either.
But then wouldn't Allen be a one year wonder? His stats in 2017 were not good. 1800 passing yards and a 55% completion %?
Am I the only one who has confidence in our WR's?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by ngbills
Or it could be our last QB did make an impact on winning. Maybe not the best passer, but other qualities that helped the team win. If we get a guy that throws better, but does not make the same plays with his legs, turns the ball over more, etc that could lead to more losses.
And back to the point of this thread. The WR group did not make it easy on Tyrod and will not make it easy on the our next guy.