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Behindenemylines

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    The fallacy of Allen being the bigger "risk" than Rosen

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    Speaking your mind is fine..I do it all day long however the way your message gets delivered and received absolutely affects its meaning.  

     

    From my original post this is what I was stating.  You can have men want to follow you because they believe in you or they will follow you because they need to (or have to)   This is not to say you can't be successful and win but in team settings the most minuscule distraction can lead to failure.  That's why coaches pay attention to the feeling of the locker room.  Just look at how many truly talented players get moved on out because of personality.

     

    Not saying this happens to Rosen, just that he has a higher chance of causing issues than the others. 

     

    And if he was naturally more even keeled then I think he may have gone higher.  And to don't think Allen is a robot- I think he's genuinely who he presents to be

    The fallacy of Allen being the bigger "risk" than Rosen

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

    No offense but this is based off nothing.  

    I think Rosen will be the best qb in this draft.  So him going 4th in the draft is a slide.   I think Rosen is the QB in this draft who reminds me of Rodgers.

     

    And I hope I’m wrong about this. 

    From what I have read and seen that is my take, hence "my belief.  Rosen has had personality red flags all his career and Allen has not.  From my experience dealing with thousands of people on a somewhat intimate level the Rosen personality type tends to be as I described and Allen also.  This is not based on skillset just personality and leadership style. Maybe I'm wrong maybe not. 

    The fallacy of Allen being the bigger "risk" than Rosen

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    On 4/27/2018 at 9:07 AM, Magox said:

    I want to preface these series of thoughts with the fact that I was hoping for Rosen over Allen.  With that said one of the common gripes that I am hearing from some of our fans on this board is that Josh Allen is the bigger risk for this franchise than Rosen.   The argument goes something along the lines that Rosen is the best pure passer, the most NFL ready therefore he's close to a sure thing.  Whereas Allen is the big armed QB who is inaccurate similar to EJ Manuel and he's got Bust written all over him.

     

    On the surface this argument makes sense.

     

    However, there are huge gaping holes with this argument.

     

    A) One of the big things that people talked about including lots of whispers from NFL personnel is that Rosen was not a leader of men.  Some questioned his demeanor and whether or not his heart was fully in the game.  I don't know whether or not that stuff is true or not but it was definitely out there.  I will say this, the little that I observed of him I definitely saw a smugness about him.  Does that matter?  I don't know.  But it was certainly palpable and if I saw that after a few interviews then I'm certain that this reputation was observed by many others as well.   The fact that his ex coach Mora could not give him a full-throated endorsement and even picked his in-state rival as being the QB who should be picked first to me screams of a red flag.  Sure, Mora tried backtracking some and equivocating why he said that, but the bottom line is that he didn't feel the urge to gush about the player he coached.   

     

    B) His injury concerns.  Will he be a Bradford sort of player?   I think that is a fair question.  He's had a couple concussions and I believe a shoulder injury that kept him out for some time.  He's not the most mobile QB, tends to hold on to the ball too long sometimes because he's a QB that likes to try to make plays but if you are in the NFL and you don't have great protection and you hold on to the ball too long and you are prone to some injuries, it's stands to reason to believe he could be an injury prone QB in this league.   That is a risk.

     

    Allen on the other hand is a big hulking QB that can not only shake off arm tackles but he's very mobile and makes amazing throws on the run.  Considering the offensive line we have, this is probably a better fit than Rosen is essentially just a pocket passer.

     

    While Allen has his shortcomings primarily in the accuracy department, it is an overblown charge that people make and it is without doubt in many cases an on-the-surface observation primarily to the famed 56% completion rate.   There certainly is some there there.  But a few things you have to keep in mind.  

     

    A) This was a down-the-field sort of throwing offense which is more susceptible to producing higher incompletion rates

    B)  His offensive line was very weak and he was constantly under duress. 

    C) His WR's were very poor and they weren't able to get a lot of separation.

     

    His intermediate and long range passing is really good, where he struggles are his short passes.  That is something that will have to be worked on and to me that is more a matter of setting his feet/mechanics and from what I've been reading it is something that he has worked on and improved, as evidenced in the Senior bowl game.  He was the best performing QB that attended this year.

     

    The guy is also an anticipation thrower that can hit receivers in small windows.  He's also a very intelligent guy and hard worker and a leader or men.   Where he needs some work on the mental aspect are his progressions which of course is a very important element.  To me, this is his biggest risk into becoming a franchise QB.

     

    While they both have their risks, it is a fallacy from my point of view to believe that Allen is the bigger risk considering that Rosen may have troubles leading his teammates and his injury risks.  

     

    There is a reason why not only was the whisper campaign in NFL evaluator/GM circles in full effect to "stay away" from Rosen and the fact that teams in need of QB's early on decided to forgo him, not to mention that most mocks had Allen being selected over Rosen.  It's not because he doesn't have the talent, it's because of these other concerns.

     

    Rosen could very well end up being the better QB, but the risks are there and they are reasonably undeniable.    Again, this is not so much an argument of who is going to be the better QB it's to address the fallacy that Allen is the bigger risk.

    But with a tag line of, "Aim small, miss small" wowing everyone how could Rosen possibly be a bust?  Darn I wish he was ours...(sarcasm)

     

    Go Allen! 

    Away Games You Plan To Attend

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

    Considering I live 90 minutes from Gillette you'd think I would go to more Bills/Pats games. But I don't.

    I had a good time last Christmas eve at the game but understand why you wouldn't go that often. Gets a bit obnoxious.  I've never had a real problem there other than a bit of shoving at times.  Much worse at the Jets games in my opinion.

    Brandon Beane: The Art of a Deal

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    On 6/28/2018 at 3:47 PM, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

    Preach. If a talented player doesn't play well for you, goes over to Jax or any other situation and does play well.. it's a poor reflection on your ability to bring out the best in your employees. Ability to maximize high maintenance but highly talented employees shows your ability as a manager/coach.. anything in life.

    I agree with that 90% of the time.  Sometimes people decide on things impossible to control such as location etc.  How that affects attitude and performance cannot be accounted for.   

    Report: Baker Mayfield not ready to compete with Tyrod Taylor

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    16 hours ago, grb said:

     

    Oh lord. Another hair-brained loony-tune theory to take the long detour around what's obvious. I won't point out how well Taylor played when he had a good (nowhere near elite) offensive cast. I won't point out the crap situation he had last year. Those facts are like the 500lb gorilla in the room : If you can't see the beast, odds-are you're trying very, very hard not to.

     

    Let's look at the latest version of someone trying very, very hard :

    • Bad receivers aren't bad receivers because a craftsmen doesn't blame his tools. First, bad receivers remain bad receivers regardless. Second, the "craftsman" of this analogy didn't blame his tools - Taylor didn't trash his receivers. Third, other people are permitted to notice the difficulty of creating a swiss watch with a dull axe - even if it's taboo for our "craftsman" to say so. Besides, this isn't just gibberish, it's also completely false. I've known craftsmen. No one is more demanding or critical about their tools than they are.
    • "You can say all you want that he had nobody to pass the long ball to"......because he didn't. Full stop. That's why you can say it. His "deep threat" was Chicago-freakin-Bears reject Deonte Thompson.
    • Bad receivers aren't bad receivers because (insert long incoherent quote starting with "These are all NFL pros"). Last season Taylor was sixteenth in the league by NFL passer rating. Just above him was Matt Ryan; just below were Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, and Derek Carr. Want to make a case a quarterback under-performed with the assets given him? Maybe you should start with Taylor's four neighbors. They all had much, much more to work with than he did.
    • "TT just refused to ruin the only truly marketable asset he had..."  Our poster doesn't even bother to explain what this drivel means. If I had to guess, it's something to do with Taylor throwing few interceptions. Anti-TT-types have this bizarre obsession with making his low interception rate into a Tragic Flaw of intelligence, ethics, fortitude, resolve or manliness. Yep. That may be stupid, sick or pathetic - perhaps all at once - but it's their obsession. Reminder : Taylor had the same low interception rate the 15 games he had Watkins and Woods on the field - when he had a 8.25 ypa and threw 27 tds.
    • "This was so apparent in so many games when he flat out didn't attempt the passes to wide open receivers"..... Ah, yes - all those "open receivers" streaking wild and free in the mind of every Taylor hater. I'm convinced they dream of them at night, perhaps counting them as they flow by like so many sheep. I admit to sometimes having inappropriate daydreams about luscious Hollywood starlets. The anti-Taylor crowd? They fantasize about about all those "wide open receivers". So many !!! Why, you can almost reach out and touch them, they seem soooo real......   

    Speaking of real : Bills receivers were at league bottom in getting separation. There's a stat for that. That's where they were. Back in the real world. Not in fantasies.

     

     

    Wow your undying love of TT is truly something to behold.  No looney tune here but if I was TT's manager I'd be having that exact conversation with him.  You know your out in Buffalo so what do you have that makes you desirable.  Certainly not your YPG passing.   

     

    The playoff game was a true showing of what level player he is.  Solid backup but nothing more.  

     

    As for having nobody to throw to seems lots of great QBs make great receivers out of unknown talent.  TT doesnt do that because of his skill level. Plain and simple.

     

    Also please feel free to read my list and comment on what I said not what you didn't read.

     

     

    • Like (+1) 2

    Report: Baker Mayfield not ready to compete with Tyrod Taylor

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    On 6/19/2018 at 11:52 PM, grb said:

     

    It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people yearn to believe, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? That seems so simple, but ask and you hear every kind of nonsense. Let's take this thread alone : OldTimeAFLGuy is still selling his shtick Taylor lacks the "skill set" to throw downfield. But inquire of the old-timer why TT had one of the best long-games in the NFL when the Bills fielded a deep threat - and then you get deafening silence.

     

    The Red King has this soulful theory it's just a "crisis of faith". Mercifully, this isn't a Garden of Gethsemane-style-thing, but lack of faith by Taylor in his receivers. About those receivers - rated one of the worst groups in the league last year - T.R.King has strangely little to say. But if faith is belief in the absence of evidence, then T.R.K. has it it spades. He believes (truly believes!!!) in all those wide receivers streaking free and clear every single play. Meanwhile, (back on home planet Earth) NetGenStats listed the Bills receivers as near league-bottom in getting separation. Of course faith can handle that fact, right?

     

    But PeterGriffin has the most elegantly constructed nonsense of all : The league "figured Taylor out" at the exact same rate his offensive cast deteriorated. Two independent phenomena occurring in perfect sync, but having absolutely no relationship. Try disproving something that nebulous, huh?

     

    It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people want to see, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? Or for that matter, why shouldn't he play the same way when put in the same situation?

     

    I think the simplest reason of all has been overlooked.  TT knew he was gone after last year, before the season even started.  The only thing he had was his stat sheet and his scrambling to market when he left.  You can say all you want that he had nobody to pass the long ball to but its a poor crafstman that blames his tools.  These are all NFL pros, so with an even balance of talent spread across any and all teams reciever to defender matchups werent always against us.  TT just refused to ruin the only truly marketable asset he had.  Again great teammate, great guy, great work ethic... but average at best skillset.  THis was so apparent in so many games when he flat out didnt attempt the passes to wide open receivers.  Maybe I cant blame the guy with millions of dollars on the line, but it made for really bad football.

     

    Needless to say the TT era is over, an new one begins and we will all see what happens with the Browns to prove or disprove our respective points.  

     

    • Like (+1) 1

    Report: Baker Mayfield not ready to compete with Tyrod Taylor

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

    You can argue how great of a qb Tyrod is but he is a great dude.  

    Seemed like it, and not saying he isnt.  If he was soley brought in to team BM how to be a good guy and good teammate then the Browns are in tons of trouble, as those are things that shouldt need to be taught at this level.  My point is that everyone knows BM will be starting sooner than later, so dont try to cover the real story with BS.  

     

     

    Report: Baker Mayfield not ready to compete with Tyrod Taylor

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    24 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

     

     

     

    All of these quotes are so canned and contrived its rediculous.  What would he say?  That the guy he wants to replace is a total A$$hat and hasnt shown him squat?  Just pure stupidity  "What he means to this franchise..."  after a whopping few months he means that much?  Well if he means that much than youll never see the field Mayfield.

     

    Cant wait for the season to begin so we can end the insanity and marketing pushes.

     

    Prediction: Nathan Peterman Bills Starting QB Wk. 1 vs. Ravens

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    On 6/8/2018 at 9:55 AM, Juice_32 said:

     

    I wonder how much of him being "more decisive" has to do with his reported work in the off-season on his arm strength? The ball could be getting there faster simply because his noodle arm is more al dente than last year. We have seen a few positive reports on Peterman but I hadn't seen anything in particular about his arm strength. We may have to wait until the TBD camp reports to really know.

    "The ball could be getting there faster simply because his noodle arm is more al dente than last year..."

    This has to be the best line I've read all year!  

    • Like (+1) 1
    • Thank you (+1) 1

    How Did Beane and McDermott “Drain The Swamp” At One Bills Drive So Quickly?

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    As a new owner it's All about managing variables.  If you change everything immediately you have no baseline.  Also maybe some people were constrained by the former management but will shine with the new.   Who knows but having the Rex debacle, which did buy time and generate interest set them up for real and astute leaders.   Well played in my book and thank goodness too!   Now let's hope it continues and this draft gets us where we want to go!

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