Jrb1979
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Posts posted by Jrb1979
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2 minutes ago, stevestojan said:
The group that absolutely hates this move, and is acting as if we just lost Jerry Rice in his prime - these are the same folks that said he was washed for the entire second half of last year, right?
It's not about losing Diggs. It's the dead cap space.
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12 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:
This is correct. We hashed this stuff out in stadium threads years ago. Pretty much verbatim and that’s exactly what we’re seeing now.
The worst part is how some of you are ok with it as long the Bills stay in Buffalo.
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1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:
It’s not a bad trade given his age and contract - it was a bad contract given his age and antics.Either way it was a bad move by Beane.
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5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
Yep, that’s fair. Anyone paying attention could see this coming a decade ago. The reason that the Bills needed a new stadium instead of a refurb is that they couldn’t have the best locations paying a fraction of what others around the league pay for those same locations. I think that they went with the $15k PSLs there to not force everyone out. It will force a lot of them out but not the same way that $50k would have in that area. They split the baby a little there.
As much as I don't agree with what they are doing, I do hope that by doing this it forces change to what goes on during tailgating. I hope it ends the drunkenness, the table slamming and condiment guys. It becomes more of a corporate feel and less a college feel to it. It's why I wanted a stadium downtown. It would have made tailgating much smaller and guaranteed the end of the those things
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12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
The club areas, all that we know right now, will be more corporate than it is now. Between the 40’s in the lower level will be a totally different demographic than is currently there. The rest of the stadium will be more regular fans.
Now you can see why many are upset and "fearmongering". They have basically gave the middle finger to the average fan and said we don't want you in the good seats. The plebs move to the back.
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1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:
Another factor that we really haven’t gone too deep on is the total club seat universe in the new stadium. @Rochesterfan correctly mentioned it. By my estimation, the current stadium has roughly 10,000 club seats. There are 19 sections of sideline clubs. I think that all sections are 15 rows and most have 30 seats. That’s roughly 8500. There is probably another 1500ish with indoor clubs (this number I’m less confident in but think it’s directionally accurate).
If the clubs shrink at the same rate as the rest of the stadium, you’ll have a total of 1400ish less club seats. We have NO IDEA if this is the case or not. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds, more data points that the team, and Legends are using to gauge success beyond that 75% of 1.6% of the stadium. 😂😂 If it makes people sleep at night to say, “in a vacuum it’s predictable,” go for it. That’s not what the analytics folks at Legends and the Bills are doing. They’re analyzing all of the trends and data available to understand how it’s going and adjustments that need to be made (both up and down).
As an example, seniority is the leading indicator of “likelihood to renew” in sports. It is a more important factor than team record. This stadium will almost certainly go against that. That’s not going to be surprising for the Bills. It was a goal of the Bills!! The pricing model was designed to “gentrify” the top locations. At what cost? We have no idea. We don’t have the information nor do we have a sense of what they want that number to be.
No matter how many times one person comes here, pounding his fist on the table, saying definitively, that it isn’t going well, that doesn’t make it true. We won’t know for months / maybe even a year+ how this is going. The Bills and Legends have a WAY better idea than the general public because they can look at all of those other trends and factors that are a part of their model. The sample size though is far too small to have any concretes projections. They certainly don’t expect all pricing levels to sell at the same rate. Because the other levels haven’t been released, they won’t know if they were on or off the mark.
Right now, they probably have a sense for the success/failure of the club seat rollout. We do not know that answer though. We MAY know more as they get through the other 85%-90% of club seat holders that still need to go. That’ll be up to the Bills and Legends as to how much information they’ll share and the manner in which they share it. Will they use fearmongering to sell more? That’s what we did when rumors of a move was out there. It felt dirty. It worked. Will they say that it exceeded their expectations to inflate a sense of scarcity? This might drive some people on the fence to commit to avoid missing out. So, so, so, so many factors at play here.
Sure they will sell the tickets but the days of the regular average joe owning them sound like they are over. The more you post the more it sounds it's going to be a stadium full of corporate people and less hardcore fans.
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2 minutes ago, Einstein said:
Yeah. It was a shrewd business move but really screwed over fans. We have seen a lot of that under PSE.Wait til the new law takes affect. I'm sure once the new stadium opens they will crack down on those who re sell the majority of their tickets.
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37 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
We have no idea if that’s a good thing or bad thing. We have no idea what the Bills thought they’d sell in this first wave. They haven’t gotten through the club seat holders yet. I’m next Tuesday. We also have no idea if that’s an actual number. We also don’t know 75% of what?
There are a lot of people here connecting dots as to what they think will happen. This is all despite the fact that the actual data that we have to go off supports MASSIVE demand for the Bills. It’ll play out but if we are reading tea leaves, demand is higher than it’s ever been.
MASSIVE DEMAND at current prices and without PSLs. The Bills aren't moving but I think you will see more buy tickets for 1-2 games on the secondary market opposed to buying seasons and PSLs.
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19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
When there are no primary seats available (again demand) there is ONLY secondary demand. We can judge demand by primary (waiting list), secondary (high priced tickets on the secondary market), and the Bills on the road (travel as well as any fan base). I’m not sure what you’re trying to dispute? The demand for the Bills is through the roof and ALL metrics support that. When you have a waiting list, you couldn’t have more primary demand. People are forced to the secondary market to consume the product. They value it enough to pay inflated prices. You’re grasping at straws to jam through the narrative that you’re trying to create. Right now, people aren’t picking Miami or season tickets. They are either doing both or picking Miami BECAUSE they can’t get season tickets. The demand is enormous.
I think that the default angle is certainly possible. The Bills won’t care so much on the lower priced ones. If someone’s PSL is $2500 and they default after $1500 it doesn’t move the needle. There won’t be enough of those situations to move the needle. If people start defaulting on the $50k ones the Bills will be after them.
FWIW, the Bills used to sue people for defaulting on their club seat contracts. That stopped about 15-20 years ago because the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze.
Right now it's enormous. With so far only 75% of club seat ticket holders opting to renew it's not a good thing. I really do think they are going have issues selling all the PSLs.
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51 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
We have been saying the same thing pretty much the whole time. We just expect a different outcome. We absolutely agree that they are going to adjust the pricing depending on how these club seats sell. The Bills have a revenue target of $200M from PSLs (at least I think that’s what it is). The sale of the club seats will leave a “new target” and then the sale of lower bowl seats will leave another new target.
Where we disagree is that they’ll struggle with the sale of the less expensive areas. Bills fans have ALWAYS found the money to support the Bills (at least when they are good). The average household income in Erie County is $84k and the median is $67k. Those are not big numbers. The cheapest ticket to Bills games was $168 last year, top 5 in the league. The lower priced seats have never been a problem. It is the clubs and suites that are tougher. I understand that it goes against some general economic trends but that is just how it has been for them. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/09/06/nfl-ticket-prices-2023-cheapest-most-expensive-prices/70722888007/
The $168 has to be the secondary market cause if you go by this site the Bills average ticket price is $101 and second to the bottom.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/193595/average-ticket-price-in-the-nfl-by-team/
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2 minutes ago, QCity said:
There's not going to be 50% opposing team fans in the lower bowl.
I know tempers are high, but the Chicken Little acts are getting out of control.
Maybe not 50% but there will be more visiting fans than at the current stadium.
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34 minutes ago, papazoid said:
imo.....in order to save face....it's highly likely "some" PSL's will be $1,000
Guaranteed those will be in the upper corners far away from the field.
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5 minutes ago, papazoid said:
Bills' potential PSL prices for new stadium range from $500 to $16,500
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2022/05/12/Franchises/Bills.aspx
That article is over a year old now. The high end is much higher than the speculated $16,500. I see the low end being much higher than $500. I see it closer to $2500 of higher.
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2 minutes ago, GottaRun said:
Lower than $15 - $20K? Yes
Lower than $6K Yes
Write down the sites that are telling you the prices will be that high or higher... then abandon getting info from those sites when their "sources" and "info" turn out to be garbage.You actually think it's going to be $1k to $2k for those seats?
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@Rochesterfan @GottaRun, you guys think the PSL is going to be a lot lower than that for the cheap seats?
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3 hours ago, QCity said:
Where are you getting this information?
It's was on the Fans of Buffalo Facebook page. Here is the post.
Controversy in Orchard Park!
Pricing for the new stadium to be built is starting to leak out of the public. Seat licensing PER SEAT may cost you upwards of $20,000-$50,000. Don’t forget to have to purchase the actual game tickets which are increasing by at least 30%-45%. The Bills are certainly flexing their muscles as the biggest show in town but unfortunately to the dismay of Bills Mafia season ticket holders from what we’ve seen! What are your thoughts on these numbers Buffalo?
Edit: These prices are for season ticket holders who are currently located in the Pepsi Club at Highmark. Upper and Lower Level PSL pricing has not been released yet but we are hearing anywhere from $6K-$15K per PSL!
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Just now, Just Jack said:
I feel a lot of those peoplecomplaining are seeing the prices for club seats and thinking that will be the entire stadium prices.
Even at $6000 as the cheapest many said it's too much.
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2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:
I think the PSLs will sell fairly well. I base that on a couple things. One, the general level of insanity for the Bills among the fan base. Two, I think there is more disposable income folks among fans than is generally thought to be so. Every year we see how much Bills fans will travel to away games, thus they have the $$ to do so. Plus I mentioned earlier when I visit the area restaurants, bars, other sporting events like the Bandits are full.
I think you’ll see scenarios where folks may split the cost and go to X number of games and such.
I have my doubts. Going by the comments on the article about the price of the PSLs I saw on Facebook, many are upset and a lot say they are priced out of season tickets now.
As far as fans traveling, IMO it's similar to Sabres away games, in that a lot of former WNYers live in a lot of those cities.
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24 minutes ago, Einstein said:
Tax break = / = paying for the stadium.
The taxpayers are literally PAYING for the stadium. Then they're being charged to enter the stadium. Then being charged to sit in the seat.
Everyone knew this was coming, so I don't understand the outrage.
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31 minutes ago, mrags said:
Well, I hate to say it, but that is a you problem. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it correct. I’m not trying to be a dick here. I’m simply stating that people have a right to sell their seats as long as it’s allowed. According to the IRS, so long as you don’t profit over 5k they don’t care. This was never the case before this year. Last year I didn’t sell any seats, but my tax guy specifically asked me if I had received any funds for tickets. This year it’s different. That’s why I’m saying don’t think NYS can legally put a law into place for selling or giving away your tickets. Unless you are a business and are specifically looking for only profit. In that case it’s a tax issue.
Yes I agree and they are trying to smoke out the scalpers and brokers. Here’s the thing. Scalpers are nothing more than local gangs selling tickets. I see them every game. It’s a huge Blood business, no different from them selling stolen or counterfeit Bills gear on the sidewalks or in the tailgate sections. They aren’t exactly working under the blanket of laws and regulations anyway so good luck trying to stop them.
as far as concerning brokers, it’s a business. A lot of These people actually do this legally and under the laws and regulations of the irs, local, and national laws. There is nothing against selling a ticket to an event so long as you document any profits that you incur. Honestly, I’m not so sure that teams themselves don’t buy their own tickets and then sell them for higher profits on the secondary market. Of course there’s probably some legal issues there but these are billionaires after all. With unlimited resources. Unlimited bank accounts. And likely multiple ghost companies that they can maneuver around to do it.
in getting a little conspiracy theorist for this thread here. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that the IRS does not care (at this point in time) that you profit from selling tickets as long as it doesn’t net you more than $5k/yr. The brokers will have problems with this. The local STHs that would like to attend a few games a year and sell the rest most likely will not be affected.
My point has nothing to do with the IRS or any of that. My point is back in the Rockpile days people bought season tickets cause they were a fan and to see their team. Sometime between then and now it's all about how much money can you profit off them.
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9 minutes ago, Mr Info said:
The senior rep at my Experience said the Bills no longer care how many tix you sell as a STH or PSL owner. Everything is done electronically so, for example, the Bills will vet who you sell your PSL before approval. Whoever purchases your tickets are responsible for misbehavior or issues not the PSL owner. He actually told me of an earlier club seat STH who went through the Experience and only plans to re-sell their seats.
IMO that is wrong. I don't get the point of buying tickets if all you are doing is to profit off then. I always thought the point of being a season ticket holder was you were a fan of team. Now it's all about how much money you can make off them.
21 minutes ago, mrags said:Well, as a STH that has historically went to almost every game since 2006 but started selling some seats the last few years. I guess I’ll sell 1 game a year and find someone to “give my tickets” to for any other games I just cannot attend because of work purposes.
fwiw, even the irs changed their rules on secondary market ticket sales. Unless you received more than $5k profit it was not needed to be included in taxes this year.
I can understand selling tickets if you can't make the game. To go into the season with the plan of going to 1-2 games and selling the rest I see as a problem.
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13 minutes ago, mrags said:
Not saying you aren’t a regular club member. What I’m assuming though, is that your seats are probably pretty close to the 50 yard line. While in the current stadium they are fairly inexpensive, the new 50 yard line club seats are going to be the most expensive in the whole place. And as I mentioned, with half as many box suites as the current stadium, the 50 yard line clubs are going to cost people a lot of money. What suites cost in the current stadium.
what I’m willing to bet, is that club members on the far outside of the clubs, like @Just Jack and myself, the seats being offered won’t be nearly as much.
I have a question for you since you’ve been to the stadium experience. In the new stadium there will be 200, 300, and 400 levels that all look like heated and covered areas based on the renderings everyone has seen. Is this the case? Did they tell you that 3 levels will be heated and covered? Did they tell you that all 3 levels are considered clubs? Or did they only offer you 1 single section based on where you currently sit now?thanks in advance.
I don’t see how it’s legal to do that. It’s an irs issue not sure how much of a right NYS has there. But as I’ve said before, just because they might try and police it, you don’t have to sell on secondary markets. You could just “gift” them to a friend. And that friend just happens to ”gift” you $1000 cash. Not sure there is anything they could do about it at that point.
They could do that. I also think the teams need to start stepping in like the Giants and Broncos did. If you sell more than half of your tickets they revoke them from you.
I think it's a joke that season ticket holders sell as many as they do.
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1 hour ago, mrags said:
Agree 100%. I’d say secondary market has more than doubled in the last 4-5 years. I expect it to at least double when the new stadium is built. At least for a while. Like I’ve been saying, as long as Allen is out QB we have a shot to win every game. He’s one of the most exciting players in the nfl. People will pay to see it. Not to mention the new stadium that will attract a lot of attention.
With the new law NY state approved, I do wonder how much it will effect the secondary market. If they really crack down on people re-selling their tickets it change things.
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2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:
Because we can't have poors having fun or even attending a football game, amirite?
Gotta price them out to eliminate that element
Never said that. I
1 minute ago, Einstein said:
Yeah, I don't think Pegula cares about that. In fact, his wife loves that tailgating atmosphere.
What they want from raising prices is MONEY.Pegula may not care but I'm sure the NFL does. Yes they want to be near the top of revenues.
Diggs traded to Texans for picks
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
They knew the guy was a problem yet they still have him a new contract and reworked. After 1 season decided that taking on dead cap to get rid of him was worth it.
Beane really messed up with Diggs. He should have been traded before the new contract