SoTier
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Not to sound bias I wouldnt put Buffalo in the class of NYJ and CLE. Both cut players soley for cap reasons. Buffalo hasnt gone that route. If so K Williams Incognito and Wood would all be gone. All the moves Buffalo has done have come with 2 factors scheme fit and injury history. Getting something for Watkins who they were not keeping long term makes sense. Matthews and a third seems like a win with gaines taking over the starting cornerspot. Good bad or ugly Buffalo has gone against the media consensus with Watkins a building block and Darby our best corner.
The Bills have used the cap as an excuse to get rid of players for almost 20 years. Early in the 2000s, the Bills had real cap issues and had to cut pricey veterans. Since then, under Donahoe, Brandon/Levy/Jauron trio, Nix, Whaley, and now Beane, they trade/cut/let go pricey veterans with depressing regularity, most notably DBs, RBs, and WRs. Then they use high draft picks to replace them with much cheaper rookies, which is why the Bills are always spinning their wheels and can't ever gather enough talent to have a balanced team that can win double digit games in a single season.
Apparently, the Bills FO (higher up the food chain than Beane or other GMs) decides what it's willing to pay for DBs, RBs, and WRs that's not really anywhere near "market rate" for the players of the same caliber, so those players leave. The Bills have trained their fans to believe all the cago they spew that they're too "poor" to afford to keep their Pro Bowl CB or get the best offensive player on the team to re-sign the following year when, in fact, the Bills just don't wish to pay them.
It's not a cap issue because frequently those ex-Bills end up signing with playoff teams loaded with pricey QBs and other players. It's primarily an attempt to maximize team profits by stinting on player salaries while managing to keep fans hopeful enough about the team's chances to sell tickets. IMO, the timing of the Watkins trade, after the first preseason game when the deadline to buy season tix had passed, was calculated to cash in on having Watkins on the team while shedding his 2017 salary. Extreme moneyball at its finest.
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So the Bills were able to win without him last year and they have the same offensive line?
Obviously, you didn't watch how well "the same offensive line" from last year played in the new offensive scheme with new blocking schemes ... or you choose to ignore it. FYI, it wasn't "the same", either, most notably that LT Cordy Glenn only played in the last preseason game and useless veteran Vlad Ducasse pretended to play RG as much as Miller. Oh, and the offense could barely run two consecutive offensive plays without the offensive line incurring a holding penalty or two. The pass pro was rivaled the legendary pass protection put up by Dick Jauron's offensive offenses of a few years ago.
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Seems like the sour grape juice is flowing like a river among certain TBD members.
It might just be that Watkins will make Goff a better QB just the way that AJ Green has made Andy Dalton better. It's amazing how much a QB's play can improve when he has protection and targets ... or fall off if his team messes up his OL and trades away his best target. 
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Did you actually research this or are you pulling this out of your butt?
Since you're so interested, prove him wrong by providing an example of a team that did swap out 41 of 63 players as well as hiring on a new coaching staff and FO. I can think of one that might fit that criteria but I'm not going to waste my time figuring out how much the roster changed. I'll give you a hint: it was an AFC team and happened within the last decade.
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Broncos coach Vance Joseph was asked about this a few weeks ago and basically said it didn't matter. Each player has a blocking assignment and you either make the block, or you don't. "Gelling" has nothing to do with it.
My favorite:
"That player would be good if you gave him the ball in space."
In the real world of football that may be true, but in the fan universe of excuses, the frequency of use of the word "gelling" as applied to the OL is inversely related to how bad the OL plays. The more you hear fans claim the OL needs to "gel", the worse the OL has played.
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What is interesting to me is the Shift in Patriots Philosophy in recent years.
No longer are they accumulating picks, instead are starting to trade those picks to get NFL quality talent NOW. Where in the past they filled their roster with young players and purged the VETs a year early for high picks. Now they have dealt picks for NFL Players.
Couple things that may be driving that shift,
1. Brady's Age. Want to field the best team possible for his last couple runs
2. The shift in College, and players coming out more and more that are not ready because of the type of college game
3. Along with two, you have the CBA practice restrictions that take hurt teams from developing those college players fast enough.
Either way it is interesting that a team that made a living of grabbing future draft picks has changed their philosophy to use picks for current NFL players.
I'm not sure if there's been all that significant a shift in Belichick's philosophy. I think he's the ultimate pragmatist who looks at his team's talent needs without preconceptions of how to fill those needs. The Pats under Belichick have always made judicious use of other team's cast off veterans. They acquired FA RB Antowan Smith (former Bill) who helped them to win their first SB in 2001. They stole Wes Welker from Miami for a second rounder. They've always been on the look-out for talented young vets who could help the team. When they've had veterans of their own who were marketable and young guys coming up to replace them, they've traded away the vets.
Then, of course, when there are such obliging teams like the Bills around that shed their best talent like they were ducks drying their feathers, why bother with drafting unknown college talents when you can sign a young, Pro Bowl CB for a few $$ more?
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Exactly! They could have gotten out of his contract this year. McDermott and Beane analyzed him thoroughly and then decide to keep TT. Why do that just to "set him up to fail". If he's a good QB, then I'd rather build around him than this "moonshot" scenario of trading up for a "top QB" in the draft.
How many season tix do you think would be sold for a team that had no QB? More to the point, Whaley was the GM until after the draft in late April, so it wasn't Beane's decision.
Bill Simmons (and his company) have taken pot shots at the Bills for the last 15+ years, not surprised they put the Bills and the Jets at the bottom, though it seems unlikely the two worst teams in football would be in the same division.
They're not "pot shots" if they're accurate... The Bills have earned all the disrespect they've received over the years. #31 doesn't seem far fetched for them this season.
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MG and Gilmore come to mind. Should've at least kept one of them. No reason not to.
Watkins is the biggest one. Matthews isn't in the same class as Watkins(YES WHEN HEALTHY) and the chances of that 2nd round pick being as talented as Watkins are slim to none.
You can scream all you want that Darby and Gilmore don't fit the "zone scheme" McDermott runs, but when your playing QBs like Tom Brady, Rivers, Carr, Newton, etc you can't only run a zone. They will pick it apart.
^^^
Well, again let's look at the actual evidence. You say there was no reason to not keep either Gilmore or Gillislee. Well, yes there were. One is $$. To keep Gillislee would have been a lot of $$ for a backup RB. A lot. And in a league where it is relatively easy to find backup RBs that is certainly a consideration. As for Gilmore, they were trying to renegotiate all last season, and ultimately he did not want to resign and wanted to test the FA market. And got a huge offer from the Pats. So we lost a guy to free agency. Look around the league, it happens to every single team. and no matter, because we have a young guy taking his place. And this does not even take into account scheme.
Let's stop here and remind everyone what your thesis was: that the Bills dumped young guys for old guys. Well, with Gilmore it was exactly the opposite: a rookie for a vet.
Now as for Watkins, again your thesis is dumping young guys for old guys. That is what you said. Not my words, yours. And ultimately they made two trades in which they gave up a WR and CB for a WR and CB that have been in the league for the exact same amount of time if I am not mistaken.
But when this is pointed out, all of a sudden the argument changes and it is about talent and not age.
Just admit when you make these blanket statements about subbing out age for young talent, you're wrong. As I said above, you can make that argument accurately about J Will. Others, no.
How many DBs have the Bills drafted in the first or second round in the last 20 years who were allowed to walk away in free agency after their rookie contracts despite the fact that they were clearly excellent players, several with Pro Bowl appearances on their resumes? How many times did the Bills then turn around and draft a replacement for said DB in the first or second round of the next draft? Allowing Gilmore to walk and then drafting White to replace him is simply the latest iteration of one of the Bills' favorite moves over the length of the playoff drought. It doesn't make the team better; it simply saves real $$$ for the organization. A first round rookie gets paid a whole lot less than a proven vet with Pro Bowl honors. Meanwhile, that first rounder could have been used to draft another OLer or DLer to groom to replace the aging vets on both lines!!!
Guys like Kyle Williams and Richie Incognito will both be on the wrong side of 35 by next season. Several other members of both lines are on the wrong side of 30, too. Then there's the possibility of Vlad Ducasse pretending to play RG ... 
The Bills have similarly used first/second round picks on rent-a-RB for 20 years, too, beginning with Antoine Smith drafted in 1997, Travis Henry in 2001, Willis McGahee in 2003, Marshawn Lynch in 2007, and CJ Spiller in 2010. All of them had some success after they were traded/allowed to walk in FA, and Smith and Lynch have Super Bowl rings.
Fans who have paid attention to the Bills over the years see the current regime doing the very same things that the failed regimes of the past have done. We recognize it for what it is: the way the Bills organization has operated for nearly two decades and we don't expect any more success from the new regime than any of the previous ones had.
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Gel: the claim that a crappy offensive line will block better during the regular season because the guys will have come to know each other better during training camp and preseason. "The offensive line needs a little more time to gel." Translation: the OL sucks.
Gel can apply to other units as well, but in B-lo, it's been applied to the OL for more than a decade.
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Tons of posters I've never seen in my brief time posting here and many of them with cryptically derisive comments like "have you seen this roster," absolute fallacies like "who would the Patriots take from our team other than McCoy and up front insults like "put down the kool aid!" and I'm wondering if these posters will be around if this team wins.
I saw someone mentioned the defensive scheme not being a fit except for the fact that 3/4ths of our defensive front had 10 or more sacks 3 years ago when they last played in a 3-4 and our 4th guy is a natural 3-4 fit as opposed to 4-3... that goes for our MLB, too. And why would anyone think White is going to be expected to be Gilmore like when our CBs will be in zone coverage most of the time? Safety depth is obviously a concern but the 2 guys starting seem a helluva lot better than what we've had for a few years.
Frankly, I expect a step back from the offense but it also wouldn't shock me if an experienced play caller like Dennison is able to maximize the talent the team has and keep them above average.
The OL is probably going to continue to be great at run blocking and not great at pass blocking. I don't think they'll be much different than the last couple years, though Miller is another year more experienced and hopefully Dawkins gets in there at RT to start the season, otherwise Henderson can hopefully step in week 4 to shore up that spot. Still, not a ton of change on the OL and OLs usually do better the longer they play together.
Let's also remember that Dennison's offense is essentially Shanahan's in terms of the zone blocking/running. That's a scheme that's very RB friendly (look at Clinton Portis in Denver vs Washington... 5.5 YPA for 2 years in Denver and never higher than 4.3 in Washington), so watching Banyard, Tolbert or Jones (or the 3 of them combined) shouldn't be a huge surprise.
Saying our WR corps is one of the worst in the NFL might not be completely inaccurate, but it was last year as well considering we were trotting out Walt Powell, Brandon Tate and Justin Hunter as our WR corps at one point. Matthews has proven to be a solid NFL WR and we're gonna see what happens with Jones but he looks pretty promising even for non "kool aid drinkers."
Clay appears to be seriously involved in the design of the offense, which is great because he's still clearly talented. O'Leary looks like he's going to consistently be in there for 2 TE sets and looks like a fantastic safety valve. Thomas could be a gem if he develops.
QB has been talked to death. We're going to see what shakes out but whatever all of us think of Taylor I think universally we probably have more faith in Peterman as our backup if Taylor is benched or hurt than we did with Manuel.
And C'Mon man!!! How can people not be excited about our new HC?! Rex literally lost games because of horrible time management, micro managing and just absolute incompetence at points. McDermott won't be perfect, but you guys really don't think coaching changes can make all the difference in the world?
With the improvement I could see in our Defense and slight regression for our offense, I think our coach could factor into multiple wins alone.
I'm not calling playoffs. But I can't believe there are some who're so utterly confident this team wins 3 games or less! Just insane! I guess with that confidence these people won't be watching the games on Sundays?
Dennison may be an experienced play caller, but "maximizing the talent he has" doesn't seem to be something that he or McDermott care to do. If it was, the OL would still be using last year's blocking schemes and Vlad Ducasse wouldn't be on the team ... and Juan Castillo wouldn't be OL coach.
Oh, and let's get something straight here: the OL was not "great" at run blocking last season. It was decent but many of its deficiencies were masked by Shady's talent. Being better than most of the OLs the Bills have fielded in recent memory does not make it all that great. It also wasn't all that good in third down situations, so the Bills frequently tried to pass on thirds and short, which usually didn't work because the OL was poor at pass protection. Oh, yeah, and Tyrod's running -- much of it forced by poor pass pro -- significantly contributed to the Bills rushing total.
What, exactly, has McDermott done to merit excitement? In another post, you referenced Belichick. Well, sir, Belichick had a long resume before he ever joined the Patriots. He was the HC at Cleveland for several years and coached that team to playoff wins despite having rather limited resources, including a decent starting QB named Bernie Kosar who'll never be confused with Aaron Rodgers. He was the DC who designed the Giants' defense that won the Super Bowl over the much more talented Bills .. with a backup QB at the Giants' helm no less. He was considered one of the best defensive coaches in the league when NE hired him.
One of these years you'll be wrong... maybe this is the year
I think that's what we're all hoping for
That's what the suits in the second floor at OBD count on. They've got all their moves down pat. They keep shuffling the personnel decks, from GM to coaching staff to players and bringing in just enough star power to excite the fans into buying the "this might be the year" BS. After a disastrous 2017 campaign, the Bills will draft a QB in the first round of the 2018 draft and project him as "The Savior" ... just like they did Losman and Manuel ... and fans like you will lap it up.
"And C'Mon man!!! How can people not be excited about our new HC?!"
- Well he only talks in platitudes and cliches for one. Everything is a process. He is the classic Topper. He's done it all, seen it all, done everything, knows everything, has every answer.
- He is obsessed with Special Teams.
- Today he mentioned something like showing "what the city of Buffalo is about". What's that Coach? Workin' real hard, bringin' the ole lunchpail to Factory Job and putting in a 16 hour day at the press? Of course we need a team based on Toughness and running the ball because in December it snows. How does he know what the heck this city is about? He's never been here before and it shows with his obsession with getting as many Panthers on the team as possible.
How about a Coach who wants to live in 2017 and develop a top notch passing game? Instead of punts, a Coach that wants to go for it on 4th down and hang 40 on you? Nope we're going to get 3rd Down and manageable.
McDermott is joyless so far.
Stop and think about it -- you could be describing Dick Jauron. McDermott is a Jauron clone. He might have a tad more animation though.
Tanks simply don't exist in football, a sport where the players and coaches have salaries that aren't guaranteed. GMs sometimes do sell out the present for the future, and this is called a full or complete rebuild.
Which this is not. If it had been, Kyle Williams, Tyrod and Shady would be gone, Shady traded for good value. It's a rebuild. Not a complete rebuild but a rebuild. They've made it clear that they're building for the future as their priority while still not giving up this year.
As for BS, what BS? Are they saying they're headed for the Super Bowl this year? The playoffs? They aren't BSing. They want to primarily build a team while not entirely giving up on this year. But yeah, the stress is on the future and team building. As it should be.
Numerous fans have been buzzing about "tanking", but I agree with you that it doesn't really exist. My point was that Beane and McDermott really do believe the line they spout -- that they're trying to keep the team competitive now while building a winning team in the future. Well, I call that BS. It's the very same BS that Dick Jauron spouted -- when he actually said something -- a decade ago, as he dismantled the modestly talent team he inherited and turned it into a collection of second stringers and special teamers. Jauron believed in play-not-to-lose-by-too-much football, and McDermott appears to believe in the same style, especially on offense: run twice, throw a short pass, punt.
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Beane and McDermott are in the process of proving that Dick Jauron was a genius. Playing-not-to-lose-by-too-much is a sure-fire road to the Super Bowl!
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After 17 straight years of watching a non playoff team, I think I know one when I see one. And man,do I see one.
4-12, maybe 5-11. Hopefully low enough to draft our qb without giving anything up to move up.
This. Teams that play as poorly as the starters played in preseason don't make it to the playoffs. Don't worry, the Bills will draft a QB in the first round in 2018. The big question will be, will he at least be better than the previous two first round QBs the Bills took?
We just don't know how these guys can coach. It is anybody's guess what will happen. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The way the team played in preseason, most notably the supposed first team, suggests a serious lack of coaching acumen. Maybe Beane has his own supply of pixie dust to sprinkle over the team to make it better.
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I think others would disagree
Sorry but it's time to finish this. If we have to sacrifice 1 season where we weren't going to win anyhow then so be it. We finally have a gm that's not afraid to make the tough moves. Did you see Rosen last night? It's time to get a QB that will win us a super bowl. Enough of this mediocrity.
ROTFLMAO! When have I heard this song before??? Every time the Bills change
HCs!!!! Honey chile, the Bills aren't going to sacrifice 1 season, they're going to continue to sacrifice all their seasons into the foreseeable future! They have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL because they continually send their best younger players packing rather than pay them just like they've done over the last 15 or so years! They don't plan for the future at all: they have a 35-year-old starting LG and a 30+ year old starting C and no player on the team who even remotely could adequately replace them ... and the right side of the line remains a sieve. Kyle Williams is 34 or 35, and it's likely Dareus will be gone before next season. What do the Bills do for DTs then??? Preston Brown is coming up on a contract year next year or the one after. He's probably all ready slated to be gone. Then they'll replace the older players drafted by previous administrations with rookies and waiver wire dumpster finds and be one of the youngest teams in the league ... and THAT will be their excuse. The Bills have been "building" and then "rebuilding" for 17 years and have all of two -- count 'em! -- winning seasons of 9-7 to show for all that personnel change. The only difference between Beane and McDermott and Whaley and Marrone or Ryan is that they're not their predecessors.
Enjoy your fantasy of some overhyped college QB taking the Bills to the Super Bowl in the next 2-3 years this season because it ain't happening. McDermott and Beane and the bean-counters in the Bills FO have insured that it's not happening. Oh, and BTW, all the failed GM/HC regimes over the last 17 have made all these same dumbassed moves at one time or another in the past ... including drafting a QB in the first round.
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pretty sure the tank is in for this year. not stated, but everything they've done so far says this year is being sacrificed to the future. they'll play hard and compete, bc the players are individuals largely playing for contracts which will please fans rooting for laundry now and again, but 4-12 sure looks like the over under for this group. Maybe they stay really healthy and a team of free agents and rookies jells, but that is such a reach as to be laughable.
This isn't a "tank" ... at least not intentionally. That's the really scary part. They really believe their own BS.
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After reviewing moves to me Jonathan Williams is next out door at 1BD. Played late Thursday. Kept every back but UB kid. Dallas obvious partner.
Nailed it, dude!!!
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I have been with the Bills since 1969 so screw you... Will always love them... just can't watch this mess on offense. Don't understand and was concerned the Carolina boys had no O clue. Now my fears confirmed. So again while the tank is on who will you ok lets say follow.
Exactly this. I've been a Bills fan since 1963 but this team appears to be built to be a clone of the play-not-to-lose-by-too-much teams of 2008-2009 fielded by Dick Jauron. I gave up my seasons after the 2008 season when Jauron was rehired.
I don't think that this Bills team can be as epically bad as the Bills teams of the most of the 1970s and 1980s only because in the salary cap era, talent is more spread out, although Beane and McDermott have done their best to dilute much of what the Bills had. I'm not going to waste my time this fall watching this latest version of the Bills flounder around on field, out-coached and out-classed talent-wise. My guess is that what we saw from the first team in the third preseason game is simply a foreshadowing of what the regular season will look like. Teams that don't play well in preseason seldom play better in the regular season.
I got NFL Sunday ticket so that I can specifically follow Seattle and any other team that's in an interesting game ... as well as follow the Rams to see how Sammy does. I wouldn't be surprised if he scores more TDs himself this season than the Bills score passing TDs.
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Jests 6-3. Despite only having 2 completed passes, the Jests still win on a Bills miscue on the 16th punt of the game late in the game that gives them the ball inside the Bills ten. Deja vue all over again.
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Whaley was the GM for 4 seasons and had to do 2 roster rebuilds of his own for different coaches /schemes. 2 time in offfense, and really 3 on d. With drafts and free agency and free agency well over half the team was "Whaley guys". With yet another rebuild they are targeting players the value in their team and system and making room the only way one can. There is no anti Whaley vendetta in the works here.
I didn't get jwill cut either he was the preseason MVP. But they have an upcoming season to prove themselves and their approach.
Is it cronyism or is the GM who liked a player as a talent evaluator in Carolina is still liking a player now that he's doing it in buffalo?
That's an important foundation statement we need to has put here.... are Zay and trey Whaley guys or not?
Keep telling yourself that there's "no anti Whaley vendetta in the works here" and it's not cronyism ... even though cutting Jonathan Williams is ANOTHER move that makes no sense ... even though Vlad Ducasse has never, ever been more than a bad right guard since his rookie season as a Jest ... even though "Zay and Trey" are "McDermott guys" ... Keep reminding yourself of the "important foundation statement" that Beane and McDermott have made while watching the crappy, boring play-not-to-lose-by-too-much team they put on the field this season and as long as they last in B-lo.
I've said before that McDermott seemed too similar to Dick Jauron to like him, and now I'm convinced they truly are soul mates. I can easily see mind-numbing 6-3/12-6 puntfest losses in the Bills future.
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And yet they keep bringing in players who look sub-par, because they've worked with them before.
IMO, that's exactly what "cronyism" is ... putting friends and family before more talented "strangers". Everybody engages in it. Everybody. It's human nature to put trust in people we know over people we don't. It's nice that Beane and McDermott have risen up the NFL career ladder but that alone doesn't make them "better" than anybody else.
absolutely. this next draft is critical to their career. we've been waiting a long time for an established qb. they have to start taking shots at it.
The Bills have taken "shots at it". They traded for Bledsoe in 2002. They drafted JP Losman in the first in 2004. They drafted Trent Edwards in 2007. They used their first pick on EJ Manuel in 2013. The problem the Bills have had is not that they haven't taken shots, it's that they took them at the wrong targets. Drafting for need is a losing proposition, and that's especially so for QBs.
If there's no great QB prospect available when it's your turn to pick, don't settle for whoever is available!
The Bills did that in 2004, when Roethlisberger was gone, and again in 2013 when there was nobody worth taking. In most years, there might be one franchise QB available in the draft. The trick is to find him because sometimes he's not the first pick off the board. Ask NE and Seattle. ...absolutely....when is the last time Buffalo has had two 1sts, two 2nds and two 3rds in the SAME draft?.......should tell a ton about their vision and abilities.............
In 2009, the Bills had two firsts and two seconds. Only Eric Wood stuck with the team past his rookie contract, and while he's a decent C, he's not one of the best in the league. Aaron Maybin was a bust. Jairus Byrd and Andy Levitre were decent players that the Bills let go to other teams after their rookie contracts. Having lots of picks doesn't help a team much if it doesn't pick well or it doesn't keep the players it develops. In the Bills case, they haven't picked particularly well, and they regularly let the best players they do pick go to other teams. Maybe Beane and McDermott will do better in the draft, but I doubt that they will do better keeping their own talent. I don't think that decision is really theirs to make.
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...why?
Significantly cheaper than Watkins.
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Its like a game of battleship but NJJ and BUF are trying to win with friendly fire.
Well said!
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The draft market is pretty efficient now. By that I mean that all teams have access to the same information/same video. The days of a team having an advantage through better scouting are pretty much over, particularly when talking about the first 4 (5?) rounds. So the "stretches" - guys drafted way above where most smart observers have them - are pretty few and far between, including for the Bills. Starting in 2011 (first 4 rounds only):
2011: Dareus, Aaron Williams, Kelvin Sheppard, Searcy, Chris Hairston. I don't see any stretches there. The fact that some lower picks (Searcy) turn out to be valuable and some (Sheppard) don't, and some have careers derailed by injury (Hairston) is just a part of NFL life.
2012: Gilmore, Glenn, T.J. Graham, Nigel Bradham, Ron Brooks. Again, I'm not seeing any stretches. That's actually a really good draft with a couple of well above average players (Gilmore, Glenn), a very solid contributor (Bradham), and a guy who's still hanging around (Brooks), with one bust (Graham). But it wasn't as if Graham was some projected late-rounder that only the Bills had on the board. He was at most a slight stretch as the 69th overall pick. NFL.com had him as "speed guy ... who could go as high as the 3rd round."
2013: Manuel, Woods, Alonso, Goodwin, Duke Williams. O.K., here's the big stretch: EJ. Projected by most as a 3rd/4th rounder. But understandable that he moved up fast because every year now at least 1 or 2 (or more?) QBs ascend the draft ladder out of the desperation for a franchise QB by teams like the Bills. Taking Goodwin in the 3rd can be criticized as a do-over on TJ Graham, but he wasn't really a reach in objective terms.
2014: Watkins, Kouandjio, Preston Brown, Cockrell. I don't see any stretches here. Again, the valid criticism would be that the Bills panic-traded up for Watkins in a desperate attempt to salvage EJ, who didn't look like a future franchise QB in his rookie season; "hey, maybe he just needed that great WR to throw to" was the theory. Kouandjio: stock dropped before the draft from likely 1st rounder to 2nd, so he was a known risk. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Cockrell: a fine 4th round pick, the mistake was in letting him go, not in drafting him. Preston: a productive pick giving you what you expect from a 3rd rounder.
2015: Darby, Miller. No stretches here. Some would have dropped Darby lower based on "character," but there was no doubt he was at least a 2nd rounder based on talent. Miller was taken right where he was projected. Again, the problem here was ... 2 picks in the first 4 rounds, a consequence of the Sammy panic.
2016: Shaq Lawson, Ragland, Adolphus, Cardale. I don't see any stretches, but I do see a theme developing. Trading up for Ragland? In retrospect (as many thought at the time) not the best idea. Drafting Cardale in the 4th? That's where a talented project QB like Cardale goes. Sometimes that guy turns into Dak, sometimes he turns into, umm, you know. More of a problem with how the Bills view what they're trying to accomplish with the draft than with overrating a particular player. As Sammy was brought in to save a sunk cost (and sinking project QB) in EJ, so too Ragland was brought into save a drowning fat man coach. These things usually don't end up well ...
2017: White, Zay, Dion. All chosen where they should've been. Time will tell whether the "Whaley" (pretty clearly McD when we look at it today) strategy of thinking that value is found between, say, the low 1st round (White, 27th overall) and the late 2nd (Dawkins, 63rd overall) will turn out better than the prior strategy.
So ... other than EJ, I don't see any huge stretches. I just see the lack of a coherent, long-term strategy that has, over the course of several years, consigned us to a rebuilding project. Again.
Good post, and I mostly agree. My take on the Bills drafting Manuel in the first is a bit different. It was only a "reach" because they were determined to draft a QB in the first round, and there just weren't any ones worth a first in that draft. I think that they understood Manuel wasn't a first round talent but they wanted a first round QB to put butts in the seats. Remember, that was when Ralph Wilson was dying, and Russ Brandon was running the team. They had "cleared the decks" of all QBs in February or March by releasing both Fitzpatrick and Tavaris Jackson, and literally had no QB until they signed the reliably accident prone Kevin Kolb who conveniently didn't even make it to the first preseason game IIRC.
The motivation to take Manuel in the first was really the same one that motivated the Bills to pick Losman in 2004 when he likely would have lasted into the second or even the third round, and if he didn't, Matt Schaub would have been available and a better choice anyways. My guess is that 2018 will resemble 2013 in that the Bills have already decided to draft a QB in the first round even if there's not one worth drafting available.
Secondary has been a revolving door of high draft picks that are not re-signed. 2006-2009 we spent high draft capital on CBs and Ss and none were committed to (either through FO stubbornness or because the players were not good enough) which led to us again spending high draft capital on the secondary again from 2011-2015(BTW none are left again). That is very bad asset management.
They have not identified and drafted any cornerstone/franchise players whatsoever(players that are scheme diverse and good enough league wide to commit big money and large amounts of money to).
Draft has been used as a band aid to end the drought since the Nix/Gailey era rather than a means toward building a team.
CJ Spiller(5 yrs - 1 great season)
Marcell Dareus(great talent but it would be nice to have the best OT in NFL(Tyron Smith) or one of the best CBs(Peterson) or DL(Watt)
Stephon Gilmore(good player)
EJ Manuel(LOL but Bills HAD to have a QB)
Sammy Watkins(Great talent - not what was needed at the time.
Sammy Watkins again(for a team that should be building and relying heavily on the draft not having a 1st round pick hurt alot)
Shaq Lawson(TBD but Bills had to replace Mario)
The DBs as a unit have been a "revolving door" since the Bills let former 1999 first round draft pick Antoine Winfield walk away in FA. He was followed by Nate Clements who also left for Minnesota a few years later. Jabari Greer was an UDFA who became a good starting CB and then left to help New Orleans win a Super Bowl. Donte Whitner, another first rounder, was good enough to become a Pro Bowler with the 49ers during their last playoff years when they fielded a serious defensive team. Gilmore just joins the long line of good/great Bills DBs whom the team won't pay to keep, preferring to create another hole that the team fills with a first round pick in the next draft instead of adding talent where the team actually needs more.
BTW, WR and RB are also revolving doors for talent for the Bills. When you look back at the first two rounds of all the drafts since 2000, what stands out is how many times the Bills used first or second picks on WR or RBs ... and how often those players, when successful, left or were shipped out to find more success with other teams.
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17 years have killed what we should have..............
Patience.
People are already calling this regime a failure when they haven't played one REAL game yet. Downright laughable.
McDermott and Beane have the keys to the franchise. Let's give them a chance to not drive it into the Niagra River.
You can give them a chance if you want, but I'm done with patience. I.AM.SICK.OF.LOSING. I'm 67 years old, so I actually remember what the "Glory Years" Bills were like. I also remember the crappy, uncompetitive teams the Bills fielded during most of the 1970s and 1980s, including the ones that went zero for the 1970s against the Miami Carp.
While the league has changed since adoption of FA, the Bills haven't changed their pattern of managing player personnel to maximize team profit since at least 2001. The kinds of moves that have been made this off-season are simply echoes of the moves made by previous regimes over the last 17 year, which suggests that OBD's "new regime" is following the same losing pattern all the loser "old regimes" followed. Names and faces have changed but the crappy 21st century Bills remain the crappy 21st century Bills ... closer to the awful 1970s Bills than the great 1990s Bills. McDermott and Jauron are apparently soul mates when it comes to offensive vision.
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Not sure about top 5 defense and top 10 offense, but definitely a formidable group that with continuity on offense and improvement/better coachin and scheme fit on defense could've been a playoff team.
They blew everything up because apparently Whaleys work was that awful.(It really wasn't)
They blew everything up because by starting over from scratch, they give themselves 3-5 years of continued sucking ... just like they've done repeatedly over the last 17 years.
How has Mills been named starter at RT for two regimes??
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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I think people are confused.
Miller is the RG. He was decent last year, but has had some problems with the new blocking schemes (no, he hasn't gotten "complacent"!), and has been in "competition" with Vlad Ducasse who has played for Castillo before. Ducasse is a dog but he knows the blocking schemes, so he may have an edge.
Mills is the RT. He struggled last season, and Dawkins was drafted to be his eventual replacement. Dawkins played LT in college (generally in college, the best OLer play LT but in the pros the skill sets are significantly different), so he's going to need time to adjust to his new position (everything is reversed, and not everybody can adjust to that quickly). Unfortunately, he didn't get as many reps at RT as intended because of Cordy Glenn's injury. It was probably unlikely that Dawkins would become the starting RT this season unless it was late in the year.