SoTier
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Good post.
Thanks. It's common sense. A franchise QB -- even if he's only as good as an Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill -- commands big bucks. The Bills haven't had to pay that freight for the last 20 years, yet they've still regularly failed to retain the talent they've developed. That's not "managing the cap" with anything approaching competency. Teams that are good at managing the cap figure out how to pay Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger or Tom Brady while providing their QBs with protection, targets and a respectable defense. The Bills haven't figured out how to do that even though they haven't had a decent NFL QB since Bledsoe was cut in 2005 ... and it's reflected in their record.
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I have read here, and other places, he should be canned for his bad contracts...wrong. HE didnt make contract decisions The GM's did. His job is to have the GM come to him and they say "make this work in the cap" that is it.
HE didn't give Dareus an insanely stupid contract, Whaley did. Jim Overdorf is considered to be one of the best in the NFL with the cap. The Next GM needs to keep that in mind and make better decisions on who gets what and for how much, before asking Jim to make it work within the cap.
Not sure why part if that is bold, but meh...
Who, exactly, other than some Bills fans and the organization, considers Overdorf "one of the best in the NFL with the cap"? It's easy to manage the cap when a team does not have an elite/franchise QB, an All Pro LT or an all-world defensive end or a future HOF WR. It's even easier to manage the cap when the team regularly uses its first round picks on DBs to replace the top DBs it's developed and sent packing rather than pay.
The sad state of the Bills franchise over the last twenty years rests squarely on the shoulders of the owner(s) and their suits from the second floor of OBD, and it's not going to improve much until there's a change in attitude and personnel there. Unfortunately, new ownership still hasn't brought all about all of the necessary FO changes needed to set the team on the winning path. Overdorf, among others, needs to go.
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I think the glaring anomalies found in your stats, OP, say that there's something logically wrong with your methodology. There's no way that Daunte Culpepper or Michael Vick belong in the same category as P Manning, Brady, and Rodgers, and Robert Griffin III, David Garrard, and Josh Freeman certainly belong significantly lower than your numbers say they are. None of them was as consistently good as QBs like Tannehill and Carr, both of whom have been good for longer than these duds who had about 1 good season each in their short starting careers.
I think part of the problem is that QBs with relatively few seasons as starters are being either more severely punished (like Carr and Tannehill) for being on poor teams or more generously rewarded (like Griffin and Freeman, both of whom had 1 good season each) for being on better teams.
Another problem, as Crusher pointed out and which is the real problem, is that your stats don't account for differences among teams. For example, the Miami Dolphins sucked at least until the last year or two of Tannehill's tenure with the team, including poor coaching and poor talent, especially on the OL and among receivers. In contrast, Andy Dalton has always had good coaching, a strong running game, a decent OL ... and AJ Green in Cinci. At the beginning of his career, Phillip Rivers had the luxury of playing on a team overflowing with talent but in recent years, as that talent dried up, Rivers' stats have declined. There's no other position on the football team as dependent on the talent surrounding him than the QB. Every QB needs protection and targets, but those aren't evenly distributed, not only among teams but also on a single team over the course of a long career such as with Rivers or Roethlisberger or Eli Manning.
When/If you figure out how to adequately factor in the length of QBs' careers and how to account for the differing quality of teams QBs play on, then you might be able to get a usable statistical measure without the anomalies.
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Just keep in mind all lawn mowers fall apart in 2-3 years.
As others have said, not so. I'm a Craftsman fan. My old Craftsman walk behind was 18 years old before it finally needed more than just tuning and blades sharpened. I'm still sorry I put it out on the curb with a 'Free' sign on it rather than have it fixed. My newer Craftsman walk behind is a self-propelled model from 2010. It had its first "professional" tune up (ie, not my simple oil change/new spark plug/have blade sharpened) this past spring. My Craftsman lawn tractor is 18 years old, and aside from about $300 worth of work done to the starter mechanism a few years ago, it's never missed a beat in all that time except for twice when careless drivers ran over things and bent blades. I use it regularly to mow my backyard as well as the large backyards of three elderly neighbors who have only walk behinds. For a couple of years, I used to haul it out to the camp every two or three weeks to mow the 2 acres of lawn we had out there.
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You might actually be more boring at parties than I am.
Dissertation topics are meant to be boring. In fact, the entire process to get a PhD is a test of endurance -- just how much excrement can a person tolerate without becoming violent to him/herself or, more likely, his/her advisor?
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What was your PhD thesis on (in 1,000 words or less that won't give me a migraine)
One of the worst thing about University was that the most gifted instructors in the non-STEM areas had no hope of finding employment in the ivory tower.
The female side isn't rushing to sign up for the upper regions of STEM, nor is it carrying it's proportion in the real world. I guess an argument can be made for discrimination but I won't bother with any other theories.
My thesis disputed the idea/myth/stereotype that most of the early settlement of the Great Plains was done primarily by individual families living on isolated homesteads separated from others by long distances. Rather, I argued that most early settlers in the area tended to settle in groups, creating small towns that served as little social and commercial centers from the very beginning. Other communities were created as railroad stops by the Union Pacific RR or as steamboat landings or ferry crossings to facilitate commercial activity. In Nebraska specifically, there seemed to be a tendency for groups, sometimes based on hometown, ethnicity or religious affiliation, to migrate together and create communities out on the prairies ... literally in the middle of nowhere.
I find the lack of women following STEM courses of study in college to be extremely frustrating. My guess is that there's still a strong bias in western culture that discourages women from going into mathematics and science. Specifically, in the US, math education just sucks, which exacerbates the problem. It seems most American students graduate from HS lacking an understanding of fundamental math and/or convinced that they "can't do math" (ie, algebra), so they shut themselves out of most STEM fields.
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Yes.
I have a PhD in history and used my degree for a few years as an adjunct (ie part time) college prof and middle school teacher before taking some programming classes and switching to Information Technology where for 30 years I made computers jump through the hoops my clients wanted them to jump through (applications programmer).
If I had it to do over again, I'd have definitely gone into engineering. Of course, back when I was in HS, girls didn't go into what we now call STEM (science/technology/engineering/math). Actually, not enough girls go into STEM today. If you're a HS or college student of the female persuasion, ladies, seriously consider STEM majors. If you're a parent, encourage both your daughters and sons to go into STEM. That is where most of the new jobs for the future will be.
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That dog sure don't hunt in the States...cant believe a CEO would use undocumented meetings as a basis for termination, especially without documented performance improvement goals that were not met. Lawsuit waiting to happen in the states, even in so called "right to work " states.
In terms of tests, I am looking at a new position and had to take a verbal assessment the other day...I had never heard of a subjective verbal assessment. They started with some basic demographic information, and then asked my birthday...and I was floored. I mean here they are asking subjective questions.
I am not exactly a spring chicken anymore, and told the recruiter holy moly are they opening themselves up to an age discrimination suit if my assessment came back negative. I can see in a written, objective test, bias does not matter. But subjective answers and age involved????
The thing is that most people, like CBF don't make waves when they're screwed over, so private employers can get away with this crap easily.
I do believe that asking about your age/race/gender/ethnicity/marital status on job applications is not illegal for private employers, but it is in some states and local jurisdictions, and definitely an invitation to anti-discrimination lawsuits if there's a pattern. It's much harder in public service positions where many states have civil service and anti-discrimination laws for public employees that are stricter than the federal standards.
One thing that employees in toxic situations should do is document all meetings. Use an appointment calendar to mark down your meetings, the attendees, the topics, either electronic (do NOT keep it on company hardware) or hard copied. Be especially detailed about private meetings, especially those with supervisors. Forward emails about your performance, private meetings, goals, expectations, etc. to your private home email.
If you feel you are being harassed because of your gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, handicaps, etc, keep diaries recording the dates and times of all incidents and what happened. If there are witnesses, record their full names in case they leave the employer and need to be tracked down years later. You should record the names of any individuals who you know have suffered the same harassment.
Hard evidence is priceless.
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Woah!
You may be the only man on that particular hill.
Nope. I agree with mannc. Rivers was horrible last season. At 36 years old, the chances of him improving to become the kind of passer he was 8 or 9 years ago are much less than the chances of Taylor stepping up to become a QB good enough to lead a team to the playoffs. Moreover, what it would take to get Rivers, including whatever the Bills would trade for him plus his 2017 salary, would limit the Bills' ability for improvement elsewhere. At the present time, Rivers wouldn't be a good fit for the Bills: too old, too immobile, too expensive -- and maybe done for.
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What, exactly, does having $10-12 million in cap space in 2017, but no Maclin possibly get the Bills?
A team doesn't improve unless it adds talent where it's lacking. If they add it for a short term, then they'll have to either re-sign that player or find somebody to replace him. There's no law that says every FA has to be signed to a multi-year contract.
A one year deal for Maclin, as others have pointed out, doesn't impact next year's cap at all, and having Maclin as another target for Taylor may very well mean the difference between the Bills winning 8 games and winning 10. I'll take that even if it's not quite good enough to get the Bills in the playoffs, because the Bills haven't had a double digit win season for as long as they haven't made the playoffs. I'm sick of the Bills losing.
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“Witness what he did with the secondary in Carolina last year. They lose their linchpin player and they’ve got to play two rookies who aren’t ready to play,” said Polian. “By the end of the year they were performing at a maximum level and he never uttered a negative or cross word through the whole situation. That tells you a lot about what a guy is going to be as a head coach.”
This is one of the reasons why I like McDermott. It wasn't just last year, either. That defense wasn't filled with a ton of big names (at least at the time). Like Josh Norman - he was originally a 5th round draft pick. It wasn't like he was some huge star. McDermott did an excellent job developing him. Back at the start of 2013, Carolina's defense was looked at as filled with a number of lesser known players, not a lot of star power, and they ended up being one of the top defenses in the entire NFL.
Being able to develop players and get the most out of what you have is extremely important IMO, and I think it's something McDermott has been very good at.
I hope this is true because this is what the Bills need. They have had enough talent on the team to make the playoffs for a couple of years now -- and they had it a few other times during the last 17 years, too -- but they've never had a HC who could -- or more importantly, would -- alter his "scheme" to fit the players they've got. That's especially true on the defense where there's been a 4-3/3-4 pendulum with every change of DC it seems. How about the FO hire a HC who wants a DC and OC who are flexible enough to adapt their schemes to the personnel available instead of demanding that square pegs fit into the round holes created by their egos?
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No doubt. Rivers is a big name and a lot of people like to cling to the past. Let's trade 3 firsts for a 36 year old who has 1 or 2 years left of decent football. Rivers is the only qb to lose to the Browns last year. But somehow those same people will be telling us that the NFL is all about the quarterback and you must have a good one in order to win. It just does not add up.
To underscore your point, here are some teams that have been to the playoffs with QBs no better than Tyrod Taylor and sometimes worse ...
- 2001: NE Patriots won the Super Bowl with second year pro/first year starter Tom Brady. Remember when we all debated whether he was a "flash in the pan"?
- 2002, 2004, 2006: Chad "Noodle Arm" Pennington took the NY Jets to the AFC Championship.
- 2004: Pittsburgh Steelers went 15-1 with rookie Ben Roethlisberger.
- 2005: Chicago went 11-5 and won the NFCN behind rookie Kyle Orton filling in for injured Rex Grossman.
- 2008: Chad "Noodle Arm" Pennington took the Miami Dolphis to the AFCE championship with an 11-5 record after the team went 1-15 the previous season, edging out the NE Patriots (also 11-5) under Brady's sub, Matt Cassel.
- 2009, 2010: Mark Sanchez took the NY Jets to back-to-back AFC Championships.
- 2011: Houston Texans won the AFCS and won a wild card game without a QB after Matt Schaub went down. They finished up with Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, and TJ Yates.
- 2011: Denver Broncos actually won a playoff game on aTim Tebow TD pass in OT.
- 2012: Seattle Seahawks made the playoffs with rookie Russell Wilson, who threw for 100 yards or less in a couple of games.
- 2013: Minnesota Vikings made the playoffs with Christian Ponder as their QB.
- 2013: Philadelphia Eagles made the playoffs with Nick Foles at QB.
- 2015: Brock Osweiler got the Broncos to the playoffs, although he was benched for the playoffs in favor of Peyton Manning.
"Game manager" type QBs like Matt Schaub, Alex Smith and Andy Dalton have led their teams to the playoffs for years. Joe Flacco is a decent QB with a Super Bowl ring to prove it but HOFer he ain't. Brad Johnson won a SB with Tampa Bay. Jake Delhomme got to the Super Bowl. Kurt Warner resurrected his career in Arizona and almost won another Super Bowl. OTOH, Drew Brees won a SB ring in New Orleans but in recent years the Saints have struggled because they haven't been able to build a good enough defense. The same is true for Andrew Luck in Indy.
My point is that it takes more than a great QB to win. Teams can win games and make the playoffs with less than perfect rosters, even at QB. The Bills have tried really hard to disprove that over the last 17 years, but it's true. Just about every year, other teams around the NFL prove this.
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his late game pick 6s would bother me
Turning into west coast Fitzy
Rivers has a history of not playing well in big games, and that goes back to his early years in the league when SD was stacked with talent on both sides of the ball. Early on, he failed to help get SD playoff wins. More recently, he's failed to help SD get into the playoffs. IMO, he's the opposite of Brady or Rogers who seem to play their best when situations are most crucial.
I think the comparison to Fitzpatrick isn't far off.
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I've never been that drunk or that high to ever try something like that ... and I never will.
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Code name : Spaceman
Code name: Beast Mode. He was the best Bills RB since OJ Simpson ... and the asshat Bills gave him away.
Bills were an underrated developmental league squad for RBs that helped out in playoff runs at their next gig.
They're still a developmental league squad for DBs. Draft 'em high or develop them from low picks/free agents and give 'em away.
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...he quit on this club......and Polian was fired thanks to Littmann.............
This is either the first or second most used excuse for OBD's incompentence made by fans who refuse to face the reality of how hard the Bills have worked to miss the playoffs for the last 17 years, ranking right up there with "he didn't want to be here". Foolish fans have made these claims about nearly every decent player that the Bills cut or traded or didn't resign in FA over the last 20 years.
Specifically about Lynch: he was suspended for four games in 2009 and he then he had an ankle injury. The Bills had him on the trade block in 2010, so they used him sparingly. It's hard for a RB to run for a lot of yards when he doesn't get the ball.
Cookie Gilchrist, without a doubt. Likely cost the Bills the championship that KC won, putting them in the 1st Super Bowl. And as the 60s Saban Era Bills were the most "NFL-style" AFL team, winning that 1st SB would not have been out of the question. Now wouldn't that have been something?
Fat Pat and Mount Washington have to be in there along with Ron McDole. Was Reuben Brown a cut/release or a trade or his choice in FA? Because that too hurt the team big time.
Ruben was a cut/release for salary cap reasons. He was another guy whom fans claimed had "quit". He went on to road grade for the Bears the year rookie Kyle Orton, their running game, and their defense took them to the SB. If they had stuck to their old formula instead of going with Rex Grossman at QB, they might have won it all.
HOLY CRAP!
I cannot believe how many people have said London Fletcher.
Where was all the love for this guy from TBD when he actually played for the Bills?!
Hindsight is definitely 20/20 on this board.
A certain percentage of Bills fans ALWAYS make excuses for stupid moves by the Bills FO by blaming players.
Yeah...but we went two years without the playoffs with Bledsoe.. It was not as if Bledsoe was going to take us to the promised land.
This is the third most used excuse by Bills fans to send a player packing. "The Bills weren't going to make the playoffs with X anyways." The reality is that you can't make the playoffs without talented players, and talented players cost more than STers. Missing the playoffs in 2004 was squarely on the Bills defense which let the Steelers' second stringers shred them like limp noodles in the last game of the season. Rookie RB Willie Parker ran for 100+ yards. The Steelers second and third string QBs threw at will.
Would the Bills have made the playoffs in 2005? I don't know. They won 5 or 6 games with JP Losman and Kelly Holcomb as their QBs, which was the equivalent of not having a QB, so it's entirely possible that they would won a few more games, maybe enough to do the trick.
Of course, Bledsoe was cut to save $$$, as was Fitzpatrick, and the QB situation in 2013 was eerily similar to 2005. The Bills didn't want to pay Fitzpatrick, so they sent him packing without having a starting QB on the roster. They used three that year: EJ Manuel, Thad Lewis, and Jeff Tuel. They won 5 or 6 games that season, and might have won more in 2013 because poor QBing clearly lost them several games.
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I think the blame for the Bills' horrendous record from 1970 through 2014 rests squarely on the shoulders of the late Ralph Wilson, Jr. He was the constant through that entire period, and he was an active owner. Wilson's success in the AFL with winning championships on shoestring budgets seemed to have colored his attitudes towards running the team, and he was always cutting corners to save money, preferring profits to wins.
All during the 1970s and 1980s, the Bills drafted poorly and often failed to sign the good draft picks they did make: OJ Simpson held out into the regular season I believe; Tom Cousineau went to play in Canada rather than play for the Bills; and Jim Kelly preferred the Houston Gamblers of the WFL to the Bills. The coaching staffs were abominations. Except for Lou Saban in the mid 70s stint and Chuck Knox in the early 80s, these guys were even worse than the coaches since Wade Phillips left.
Low attendance finally forced Wilson to put a "football guy" in charge of the team. That would have been Bill Polian, who actually brought the Bills organization up to modern day standards. However, Wilson and Polian had a falling out, and Polian departed for Indy.
Polian imperfectly understood how to manage the salary cap, but his astute eye for talent overcame that. John Butler and AJ Smith were Polian's proteges, and they kept the Bills talent pool alive for a few years after BP left. When they left to build a powerhouse in San Diego in the early 2000s, there was nobody in the Bills organization who had a good understanding of how to manage the salary cap while maintaining talent ala New England, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. Actually, there was nobody at OBD who could competently manage the salary cap OR recognize talent, as the team's crappy record from 2001 through 2014 demonstrates.
The Pegulas have only had about 2 years of ownership, and they didn't make a good start with falling for Ryan's BS. Hopefully, they'll learn from their mistake.
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Listen, you are making total sense and I agree with you but it appears that in this and other posts on this thread, you are giving Marv Levy a pass.
The truth is that Levy hand picked Jauron. They both shared the opinion that the secondary is the most important part of a football team. Levy admitted that he turned down multiple trade offers for the #8 pick in 2006 so he could draft Whitner. The 2006 draft destroyed this team for many years and it was Levy's baby, his first draft as GM.
It is easy to understand why Levy gets so much room here and has for many years. As a coach, Marv was great at keeping the huge egos in check, something that must have been hard to do. But he was a horrible GM, maybe even worse than Whaley. That bad.
I'll admit that I may be prejudiced since I like Marv and absolutely detest Jauron as easily one of three worst HCs the Bills have had (Ringo and Bullough being the other two turds). Levy was part of the "GM By Committee" where the Bills really didn't have a GM, but he seemed to be largely a figurehead for the group, which included Brandon, Modrak, and Jauron. My gut feeling is that Levy didn't exert much influence on who the Bills drafted or signed as FA, and that Jauron dominated any discussions.
Whaley was definitely better than Levy and that rest of his group. So were Nix and Donahoe. The sad state of the Bills' talent (or, truthfully, lack of talent) at the end of the 2009 season makes that easy to see.
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2010 NFL Season Preview:
Veteran Additions:
OT Cornell Green, DE/DT Dwan Edwards, ILB Andra Davis, ILB Reggie Torbor.
Draft Picks:
RB C.J. Spiller, NT Torell Troup, DE/DT Alex Carrington, WR Marcus Easley, OT Ed Wang, DE/OLB Arthur Moats, DE/OLB Danny Batten, QB Levi Brown, OT Kyle Calloway.
Offseason Losses:
WR Terrell Owens, WR Josh Reed, TE Derek Fine, OT Jonathan Scott, G Richie Incognito, DE Aaron Schobel, DE Ryan Denney, SS John Wendling.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/offseason2010buf.php#sTEJWLy3I2pJGIgL.99
The veteran players the Bills added were pretty much trash, but the players they lost were also about the same level at that time. Except for Owens and Incognito, none of the others were ever regular starters for other teams after they left the Bills. The draft didn't yield much but Spiller, Carrington, and Moats were modest successes. Spiller might have been much better in a different situation. IIRC, Moats played in 2016 for the Steelers.
As for the others:
- Terrell Owens was at the end of his career and had only one good season, 2010, after he left the Bills. He had 72 receptions for 983 yards and 9 TDs in 2010 ... with Carson Palmer throwing him the ball. With Ryan Fitzpatrick pitching behind the Bills unreasonable facsimile of an OL, do you really think he'd have done as well?
- Josh Reed signed with the San Diego Chargers but was released before the start of the 2010 season.
- The highlight of Derek Fine's career was catching a TD pass from Trent Edwards in 2008. He went on IR in September, 2009. He was waived by the Bills, by St Louis, and by Houston all before the beginning of the 2010 regular season.
- Jonathan Scott bounced around the NFL -- Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Atlanta -- as a backup OT, and not a particularly good one.
- Richie Incognito was a good one who got away but apparently something he did/said offended somebody at OBD because he was another one of those players that the Bills FO wanted gone no matter the cost.
- Aaron Schobel retired after he was released by the Bills and no other NFL team offered him a contract.
- Ryan Denney signed with Houston in 2010 but was waived by them during the 2010 season.
- John Wendling was a good ST player who went on to make a Pro Bowl as a ST player. However, that was the best he was.
IIRC, the 2010 draft was the last one with Tom Modrake's participation. I believe he was fired in 2010, and that's when new scouting and evaluation staff were added. Was he the sole reason the Bills' draft sucked? Unlikely, but he was probably part of the problem.
One of my big problems with the new regime is that some of the sins of the previous regimes seem to have continued which would indicate that they originate higher up the corporate food chain than GM/HC.
- As others have noted that the Bills have what amounts to a tradition of shedding their best DBs rather than paying them and then using first round picks to replace them. Even going back to pre-salary cap days, the Bills had a penchant for drafting DBs in the first round.
- The Bills also seem to conveniently have "leaks" about players being on the trading block or being difficult or "not wanting to be here" -- often in out of town media -- in preparation for sending that player packing, either through trade or release. Negative rumors or even actual articles surfaced in regards to McGahee, Losman, Schobel, Evans, Lynch, Peters, and numerous others. It's why I found the supposed "rumor" of Watkins being available for trade to have some credibility: the Bills have been there before. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I worked for almost a decade for an outfit where nobody paid any attention to formal announcements but tuned into every rumor on the wind because those always contained far more truth than anything coming from the FO.
- Drafting for need is a blueprint for disaster. It's totally short-term thinking, something that the Bills have excelled at for nearly 20 years, going back to the disastrous 2000 draft when they took Erik Flowers. Passing on better talent just to take a body at a position of need gave the Bills Donte Whitner, John McCargo, Leodis McKelvin, Aaron Maybin,and EJ Manuel. If the talent is about equal, then going for need is fine (ie, Marcell Dareus rather than AJ Green), but passing on Brian Orapko for Aaron Maybin is beyond stupid. Hopefully, the Bills didn't screw themselves over in the 2017 draft but that remains to be seen.
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Marshawn Lynch. Lee Evans. Jason Peters. Aaron Schobel, Byrd, Fred Jackson-there was talent on those teams. They went 7-9 every year. Nix couldn't even get to the seven win mark. His body of work was below average. The 2010 offseason was one of the worst in the team's history. Extension of Kelsey, Fitz.Whaley was average at best. Nix-16-32. Whaley-30-34. Neither good enough.
Pesky things, facts.
None of these players were on the Bills for most of 2010:
- Marshawn Lynch was traded to Seattle on October 5, 2010.
- Jason Peters was traded to Philly before the 2009 season.
- Aaron Schobel's last season was 2009.
As for the others, the reality is that they weren't all that great.
- Fred Jackson, however much he was beloved in Buffalo, was, in fact, a journeyman RB. That he was the Bills starting RB in 2010 just underscored how talentless the Bills roster was.
- Lee Evans was an okay WR but never a top one. As the thirteenth player take in his draft year, he was a disappointment. On most teams, he wouldn't have been the #1 WR.
- Jairus Byrd was a genuine talent, but he was one player out of 53.
Who else did the Bills have in 2010?
- Spiller was a rookie.
- Wood was a sophomore slowly coming back from a broken leg.
- Others who were good/decent players included Kyle Williams, Whitner, Stevie Johnson, Posluszny, Kelsay, and Fitzpatrick.
Most of the players on the Bills roster that Nix and Gailey inherited weren't NFL caliber players except possibly on special teams.
The 2010 off season was hardly "one of the worst" in team history. Fitzpatrick wasn't extended in the 2010 off season but during the 2011 season when the Bills were in a big hurry to lock him into a contract in case his price went up ... just like they agreed to extend Jauron in 2008 after they beat San Diego. Both were likely done at Ralph Wilson's insistence.
2009 was much worse as the Bills extended Jauron despite the disaster of the 2nd half of 2008, drafted Aaron Maybin, traded Jason Peters (and getting fleeced royally by Andy Reid), and lost OT Langston Walker because he refused to play LT. Do you consider signing Terrell Owens and selling 55+K season tickets as balancing all the negatives ... or even coming close?
These posts drive me crazy; this has been a failed organization since 1999. You can rationalize past efforts, laud them, make excuses, whatever, but talent acquired does not mean squat! Do you win and are you still playing in January consistently offers the final grade!
Somebody asked me a question about GM/HC combos, and I answered. Thinking that NIx/Gailey were the best of a poor lot doesn't mean that they were any good. They at least helped the Bills get a better talent foundation going forward rather than further depleting it or just treading water.
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Chuck Knox teams were very good. He should have been kept. Top coach in NFL at the time
Agreed. He'd have given Belichick a run for his money in the current salary cap era because the Bills used their own self-imposed salary cap back then, so he made do with a minimum of stars and a lot of journeymen. IIRC, he left because the Bills wouldn't give him more leeway in acquiring more talented players.
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After Shaq had to get his surgery and Ragland went down, there was no way Whaley was gonna let J-will sit if he could practice. There was already enough complaining about his drafting injured players.
There's a big difference between drafting a player with an injury in round 1 (Lawson) or round 2 (Kouandijo) and drafting one in Round 5. Most fifth rounders will be lucky to stick as ST players.
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Nix and Gailey produced a terrible record of 16-32.
They started with NOTHING in the talent department thanks to Jauron and the GM-By-Committee. Brian Moorman, the Bills punter, was like the only Bill to make the Pro Bowl during Jauron's reign ... and that was because I think there was still a rule that every team had to have at least one representative. If all you go by is the record, then yeah, they were awful, but from where they started and where they left, the team improved greatly. If you had actually watched the Bills play during the Jauron era, you would understand what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, I had season tix back then and got to watch the disaster in person.
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...just curious and yes it IS hindsight....who in that lineup gave you confidence during those eras that the schneid was done?......I will offer my opinion (JUST an opinion) as well................
I bought into the Donahoe/Williams, Nix/Gailey, and Whaley/Marrone. I even bought into Jauron as HC for a while until I realized exactly what he was doing to the team.
In hindsight, I think that Nix/Gailey was the best of a poor lot since Butler/Phillips in 2000. Thanks to Jauron, the Bills by 2010 were probably as talent-less as an expansion team. Nix improved the talent immensely, and Gailey managed to get that crew to win a few games even though they didn't have a defense and a limited offense with Fitzpatrick at QB. Nix's only major faux pas, IMO, was trading Marshawn Lynch, and my guess is that that may have been ordered from higher up the corporate food chain. I think the Bills had decided to get rid of Lynch in 2009 before Nix became GM, which is why they drafted Spiller.
Pegulas right not to fire Jim Overdorf
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by SoTier
That's because you can't separate player valuations from talent evaluations. Fifteen years ago or so, all the gurus in the media were convinced that the salary cap meant the end to dynasties because teams supposedly couldn't pay top talent, especially QBs, and maintain enough quality around them to make the playoffs with regularity. Well, all the gurus were wrong. Teams with truly smart guys working their cap numbers figured out how to do it, which is why teams like NE, PIttsburgh, Denver, Atlanta, Green Bay, KC, etc have continually been able to field playoff teams year in and year out.
The Bills haven't made the playoffs in 17 years because they're clueless about how to manage the cap. They don't have a QB taking a huge bite out of their cap,but they STILL can't retain the talented players they've developed. They're still operating on principles that were proven unsuccessful fifteen years ago. You don't need to know how the Bills FO operates to realize it's not doing its job. The results speak for themselves ... over and over again. Overdorf needs to go .. and all the rest of the good ol' boys at OBD, too.