SCBills
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5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:
I hate this. Pats get Fields, and get the 3rd best RB. Williams is still available and is a better fit than Etienne.
Meh.. As long as nobody in our division walked away with Trevor Lawrence or Deshaun Watson this offseason, I would consider it a win.
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1 hour ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:
I mostly agree, but one thing I think about is when you compare your honest ratings of ETN or Harris to the RBs in last year's draft, where do this year's RB's fit with... let's say 2020's top five RBs taken. For reference, here's the top five RBs from 2020, and where they were picked:
32 - Clyde Edwards-Helaire
35 - D'Andre Swift
41 - Jonathan Taylor
52 - Cam Akers
55 - J.K. Dobbins
Now, obviously, everyone will have their own takes on grading, but where do you see ETN and Harris fitting among those RBs?
Personally, I would put ETN right around Akers and Dobbins, in terms of talent and value. I'd definitely have Harris a notch or two lower (maybe in the mid-60's). You may rank him differently, but would you have ETN ranked ahead of Swift? CEH? That would be hard for me to justify, but again, ranking players is tough, and everyone's going to have a different opinion.
I just wouldn't have ETN up there with CEH, Swift, or even Taylor (I loved Taylor, last year; I would have given our 2nd for him, but I get that Beane saw Epenesa's value as being higher, and he probably stuck out like a sore thumb on the Bills' board, so I get it), so it's hard for me to justify trading up for ETN, and I wouldn't be the happiest if he were our pick at 30. I just see better value at CB or DE.
I know the counter-argument: last year's draft was stacked at RB (and probably a more stacked draft, in general), so RBs were probably pushed down the board. I get that point, and it is valid, but it still doesn't make me feel good taking an RB just because they weren't pushed down the board in a strong draft. I kind of liken it to the 2013 E.J. Manuel pick. We dropped back (good thing! Gained draft capital, and still got a QB), but it was to draft a QB in what has become--historically--the worst QB draft in the past two decades, or so. It's that kind of a feeling, for me, so I just don't like it.
I honestly put Etienne ahead of all those guys.
Again, I won't be upset if we take a position with more relative value in the 1st Round, but Etienne is the first RB in a long time i've viewed as being worth a late 1st Round Pick. I'm only taking a RB in the 1st if he has Alvin Kamara ability, and none of those guys (imo) do.... Etienne does.
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3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:
I thought they were discussing this on WGR the other day, that were only 30-40 some 40-yard runs last year?
And Derrick Henry led the league.
So we can expect a 2-3 40-yard swing passes from Etienne?
As long what's bolded is true, then yes, Etienne makes sense. He gets 15-touches a game and replaces Moss and Singletary. Theoretically that makes us better. But either way, if he is CJ Spiller the first two years or the Bills ride him like Kamara and McCaffery, then I think our production as an offense will decrease.
The best argument for Etienne is the missed screen against Kansas City that Singletary dropped. If that's Etienne there and he catches it, that's a 30-yard completion.
If we fix our run blocking, and if we don't take any OL high along with re-signing our own guys, I'm led to believe that Beane/McD believe that can happen - any team that play light boxes against Etienne would be risking chunk yardage... maybe not 40 yard gains, but the runs Devin gets us 10-15, Etienne is getting 20-25. A pass to Devin in open space can hit for 15-20 yards, given his ability to make guys miss, but a pass to Etienne in open space means potential fireworks.
That, to me, is enough to justify taking Etienne. Both for what he can do, and for what he prevents the defense from doing.
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34 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:
Remind me again how many Playoff games the Panthers have won with McCaffery?
Remind me again how many Super Bowls the Saints have won riding Kamara (even with an All-Time QB)?
3-4 in the Playoffs since Kamara joined in 2017.
My point isn't that they aren't individually great. My point is they dumb down your offense because you're constantly checking down to them. Against the Panthers, you know its going to be McCaffery on 15 rushes and another 10 dumpoffs. Your offense becomes easy to predict. You become so reliant on the easy dump off.
Go ahead and draft Etienne. He should be better than Moss, Singletary and Breida. But he should only get the same number of touches that they got combined in a game, because if he becomes a focal point in your offense, you won't win more games.
He wouldn't become the focal point though.. Does anyone really think, if we draft Etienne, he's all of a sudden getting 18-20 carries per and 8-10 targets in the passing game?
Maybe, against certain teams, deploying a certain scheme... and that's why he makes sense.
Also, the more likely scenario, is someone sells out against Josh/WR pass game and Etienne busts a big run or catches an underneath swing pass for 40 yards and teams play more honest, allowing Josh and the WR's more space to operate.
We don't have anything at the Tight End spot to scare teams. We have Diggs and a strong trio of #2 WR's, but if you sell out against the pass, Josh doesn't have Kelce to lock onto for big plays. We can't get him a Kelce because that doesn't exist and Kyle Pitts is out of our reach. What's the next best option?... In my opinion, it's a weapon at RB. Notice I didn't say RB, because drafting a RB in the 1st Round is stupid. Etienne is not just a RB. He can get the tough yards, has home run ability and is a game changing threat in the passing game.
He's as close as it gets to providing Josh with a change-up when teams sell out against the fast ball.
I won't be mad if we go Defense, WR or OL instead, but Etienne makes a ton of sense for us.
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8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
This is the weirdest argument yet, and it isn't the first time I've seen it. You're saying you don't want an elite RB because they're too good to ignore? That's crazy. Some of the conversation around RBs has gotten really out there. I get that their value is less compared to some other positions but now we're trying to argue that having a good RB is a bad thing. I don't foresee the Bills offense and Josh Allen becoming checkdown dependent or run-heavy just because we have a good RB. It would just give us another option to distribute the ball to. That would make the offense a lot more difficult to defend.
Also, the Saints Offense became dependent upon Kamara because Michael Thomas was injured and their QB was a converted RB/TE or dead arm Drew Brees.
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If we're underestimating Singletary so much, then awesome.. We can get most certainly get a mid-round pick back for him if we draft Etienne, or literally anyone else who isn't slow with meh receiving skills.
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In terms of value - of course running back isn’t a smart team building decision in the 1st Round. I think most of us can agree on that.
Two things:
1) Can Etienne be more than a RB? Can he be a Kamara/McCaffrey type?
2) Are we “team building”? I’d argue that being slotted at 30 means you are no longer team building. Are the Chiefs team building? No, they are simply adjusting... adjusting to fit cap constraints and re-tooling to stay on top of the AFC and win another Super Bowl.
CB/EDGE certainly have more positional value in the 1st Round, but do they help us get to, and win, the Super Bowl more than Etienne?
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Feliciano is an average Guard, who’s value comes in his ability to also play Center.
Ford is the wild card. Guy was a monster in college and we played him at Tackle his rookie year, then he got hurt midway through his 2nd year. I’m not making a judgment on him yet.
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2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:
NFL scouts usually value "projection" above "production." Not to mention, this is a copycat league and two of the most successful QBs (Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen) came out of college as extremely raw prospects with infinite physical upside.
Yes, Justin Fields is a good athlete with a strong arm. But when you look past his college stats, his ceiling is probably a notch below Zach Wilson and Tre Lance. And despite the great results on the field, there are bad habits on film (such as staring down his initial reads) that may be tough to break. Sometimes more experience is not a good thing when it comes to teaching.
Also, I'm not buying the Mac Jones hype at all. The 49ers haven't given any hints who they really prefer, and I think the media has really blown this speculation out of control with no real facts to back it up. Part of me thinks the NFL is encouraging the drama, because they want good ratings for the draft, and the first two picks are already set in stone. According to those in the know, Kyle Shanahan preferred Kirk Cousins over RGIII all those years ago, but was smart enough to recognize value and waited until the 4th Round to take him. I just can't see this team trading away their 2022-2023 drafts to pick the #5 ranked QB, who almost certainly would have been their at #12 anyway.
Either way, it's not like Fields is going to be dropping crazy down the boards. I think he could still go #3 to the 49ers or #4 in a trade-up. At worst, I can't see him dropping past #8.
Haha... I don't put it past the NFL, low-key, asking the Niners to play it coy with their pick - especially given the almost certainty of Jax/NYJ.
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2 minutes ago, MJS said:
I think Wilson looks really good, personally. He is athletic, has a good arm, and is very accurate. He is smart. The only problem he will face is injuries, which very well could cut his career short. He isn't big and he likes to pick up yards with his legs. His college injuries tell me he could face nagging injuries throughout his career just because of his play style and lack of size.
But who knows?
I haven't watched much of him, outside the bowl game, where he was throwing to wide open guys every play - but I did read that this past year he faced hardly any tight pockets at BYU, and his supporting cast was just flat out way better than anyone they played.
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1 hour ago, mjt328 said:
I'll be completely honest. This has been a terrible and horribly disappointing offseason for the Bills. At least so far.
Our biggest free agent additions have been a backup quarterback (on a one-year deal) and swapping John Brown for Emmanuel Sanders (basically a wash if both guys are healthy). Nothing has been done to upgrade the pass rush. Nothing has been done to improve the secondary.
To make matters worse, our rivals in the AFC East have made some nice improvements. The Dolphins are loaded with draft picks to upgrade an already strong roster. The Jets are a few days away from getting a potential franchise QB, and also have a ton of selections. And after filling tons of holes in free agency, don't be surprised if Justin Fields falls in Bill Belichick's lap on Thursday night. Yuck.
This offseason was Brandon Beane's golden opportunity to solidify the Bills among the NFL's elite teams. Our performance in the AFC Championship Game was awful. It was disgustingly bad. We didn't even look like legit competition for the Chiefs. Then two weeks later, the world saw Tampa Bay lay-out the blueprint for beating them. And it wasn't by featuring a Pro-Bowl running back. I don't understand how anyone could watch Chiefs receivers running open all game, and be fine with the exact same players in coverage. I don't understand how anyone could watch the Super Bowl, and be fine with trotting out the exact same group of pass rushers.
I want to trust Beane. And in many ways, he's earned our trust as Bills fans. But I cannot imagine how picking a RUNNING BACK in the first round (especially with a trade-up) could possibly be the answer. Just look to the #4 team picking in the draft (Atlanta) to see how quickly a championship-caliber roster can fall apart due to bad decisions.
I can understand the criticisms regarding our defense. I think we have way too many solid players on that side of the ball at the detriment to game-changers. No idea why Addison is still on this team and if Edmunds doesn't break out this year, just admit the mistake and move on. Obada seems like another solid rotation player of which we have wasted a ton of cap space on already, and we have to hope Star's return can free up Oliver to live up to his draft hype. Not out of the realm of possibilities that this unit improves a lot, but their improvement relies on a handful of player upping their game. Meanwhile KC runs the conference with 3 defensive studs, while scheming around them.
On offense, I disagree. Our OL was very good last year and if Beane believes they can run block better, I trust that they can. Sanders over Brown, imo, was done because of KC. He can win one v one, whereas Brown is an oft injured speed threat who hasn't come through for us in the playoffs. This is an upgrade.
I do think we need another elite threat on Offense... in my opinion, Etienne is that guy. He's the most explosive player in the Draft that we can realistically get. He's also more than a RB, in my view... He's a legit #2 weapon, elite level potential, to throw at teams when they try to shut down the QB/WR pass game.
I'd also be ok addressing EDGE/CB/Hybrid LB in RD 1.
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11 minutes ago, Greg S said:
I wouldn't mind an upgrade at RB and another weapon on offense but priority #1 in getting past KC is improving the pass rush otherwise Mahomes will kill the Bills D again.
Frazier/McDermott and their Defensive Game plan against KC were just as much to blame.
Game 1: Absolutely bludgeoned on the ground while we played passive to hoping to keep it close and steal the game in the end.
Game 2: Romo begs us to play physical with Kelce and Hill, yet we give them free release all game. Tampa Bay, two weeks later, chips Kelce on every route.
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I'll be honest, I'd almost rather give a late round pick a shot to platoon with Moss/Breida after what I saw from Singletary last year.
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Leftist Twitter trying to cancel Tucker for the 800th time.
These people are stalker level obsessed with him.
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34 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:
If they do it with their 1st rd pick or move up - I will laugh and laugh at their wasted picks.
Just as if we move up - I would be ticked. No value at all to that position.
If Etienne is Alvin Kamara, he’s worth it. If he’s simply an upgrade at RB, no thanks.-
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2 hours ago, mushypeaches said:
I'm in the boat of letting the draft come to us this year. We have a lot of young cheap depth that's going to age out in the next 1-2 years that's going to need to be replaced. It takes cheap draft picks to do that.
Yes, I'd like to win, but I don't want to become this top-heavy have/have-not club either. That's the quickest path back to 6 win purgatory
There’s certainly a balance, but I think we need to become a little more top-heavy, even if it’s to the detriment of depth.
We have a lot of solid-very good players, but where KC has Mahomes/Hill/Kelce, we have Allen/Diggs and where KC has Jones/Clark/Mathieu, we have White.
If they see a guy that gets us closer to matching up with their star power, I’d say go get him.
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2 hours ago, appoo said:
Not at all. You don't draft a RB in the rd thinking he's gonna be pro-bowl back - you do it because you think that RB is gonna be a good complement to the game plan, rather than a focal point.
Moss and Singletary - with better blocking - would have perfectly fulfilled that role.
You draft a RB in the 1st round because you view that guy as someone who's going to be one of your top 2 weapons to use in your game plan.
That's why drafting ETN is legit. The Bills, for all their fireworks, don't have a great #2 weapon right now. Emmanuel Sanders is a risk because of age, while Gabe Davis is a risk because you're not sure what you'll get with him in year 2, while neither RB - as noted above - is there to be a real weapon.
I'm not sure about trading up to get a RB as a position in general, but I do agree with trading up to grab a legit weapon. Whether that be ETN (because of his ability to change the game as a pass catcher) or that kid from Florida or perhaps even Rashod Bateman.
You could also see a corner if you see Farley or Newsom sitting there. Not gonna trade up for these edge defenders
Fantastic point. We have a stud QB, good OL, an elite WR1 and then some really good complimentary WR’s in Beasley, Davis and Sanders.... Etienne immediately becomes that secondary weapon ... and he’s a weapon in the run and passing game.-
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In terms of picks, if we draft a RB, I highly doubt Singletary is here for very long.
We can probably get back a 4th in ‘22 or a 5th in ‘21 for him.
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Just now, YoloinOhio said:
Or bills want everyone to think they want etienne so someone jumps up for him and other guys fall
Oh, for sure... I'm just stating where the assumption from McShay is likely coming from. I highly doubt Beane is openly telling people he wants to trade up for Etienne.
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This sounds like "Bills like Etienne" + "Jets/Jags like Etienne" + "Bills looking to jump both of them" = "Bills want to trade up for Etienne"
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44 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:
Peter King should read Carucci’s article today. The Bills need a DE and fast disruptive players period!
We either have a BPA strategy at 30 or we don't. I'm sure we'd love a top end EDGE... except we're drafting at Pick 30.
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19 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said:
I feel like etienne fits us better because the thing is we arent suddenly going to turn into an offense that hands the ball off 25 times a game when we have josh allen. Josh is the system. Etienne isnt that type of back anyways. To me hes a perfect fit and great value at 30 but im also torn against taking a rb in the 1st
Pretty much how I feel. I get why people don't want a RB in Round 1, and we certainly need to get more playmaking ability from our defense, but Etienne fits this offense - as a playmaker - like a glove.
The dude was never the focal point at Clemson. That Offense ran through Trevor Lawrence pushing the ball down the field. But Etienne kept defenses honest and was an explosive check down option.
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22 hours ago, GVINCENT said:
Travis Ettiene... They are not going to stop the Chiefs or the Bucs anyway, so just keep the ball out of their hands. Run, baby run...
Id be ok with Etienne but definitely not because I want to “run, baby run..”. He’d help there for sure, but he was electric for Clemson as being a release valve for Trevor Lawrence. -
14 hours ago, BillStime said:
Domestic Terrorist... Seditionists... that's exactly what they were.
- What would you call them?
- What was the end goal of 1/6?
- Why are you downplaying and trying to re-write history? It was broadcast on TV for the world to see.
This was not a impromptu event. The Trump administration and campaign planned every aspect of the day.
Go research, literally, any legitimate uprising in other countries and compare to 1/6.
You’re simply repeating words and phrases taught to you by CNN/MSNBC.
It was a riot. A black eye for America, absolutely. But just like they manipulated you with lies about Officer Sicknick, they are manipulating you with lies about what truly happened that day.
Ben Allbright’s annual mock draft has Bills taking Etienne at 30. He’s been right about where Bills are looking several years running.
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
It's hard, and probably unfair, to say that play cost us the game, but it just felt like that was the moment to put KC on their heels and that drop was so deflating.... we as fans felt it... and if we're being honest, I think the team felt it too.