HoofHearted
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Posts posted by HoofHearted
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3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:
Elam is going to create some tough decisions when White comes back
Is he though? He's our least refined corner right now out of Dane, Benford, and him imo.
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20 minutes ago, Logic said:
So far I've preferred Dorsey's playcalling to Daboll's.
The one thing I want to see brought back from Daboll's playbook were the jet sweep actions to McKenzie. Even when he didn't actually get the ball, his speed and the threat of it forced defenses to have another thing to account for before the snap. A split second of hesitation by a defender before the ball is snapped can make all the difference.
I have advocated for, and will continue to advocate for, Shakir becoming the primary WR3 and starting slot receiver, and McKenzie returning to his WR4/gadget role.Problem is we don't see a ton of man coverage - that's where you'll see the most adjustment from a defense vs the jet. NFL backers are too good to be fooled by the eye candy of McKenzie.
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20 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
No rational disagreement possible. They clearly don't.
But that's not how they market themselves. It's supposed to be neutral, unbiased, performance-based grading by carefully trained observers
And what they say about their graders:
Their assertion is that each grade is reviewed by a group of 12-18 "senior analysts"
They ran out of hungover college kids to do their manual labor for them so they've out-sourced it to India for a while now.
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34 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
I see gaps on the offensive side. Ya gotta wonder why Knox isn't higher. He did some Grade A work. Davis should also be up there.
I agree with your puzzlement on Cookie. Milano had a GREAT game where he did his job perfectly. Made key tackles, was in the right place at the right time to help force Johnson's INT
I'm forced to conclude that the PFF graders pretty much don't understand team defense.
PFF graders don't understand football. Those positions are out-sourced.
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31 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:
One of the big concerns about Bills' D in 2020 and 2021 was its inconsistency at stopping the run (2020 home game against the Chiefs, 2021 Jonathan Taylor debacle being a couple of examples). We were not 2021 Chargers bad but very middle of the pack. This year - first in YPG and second in YPA. Tremendous. Don't know if it's Jones being 100% better than Star or DE's that play the run well (Lawson, Rousseau, et al.) or a combination of things but it is great to see. Used to be worried about teams that run the ball well but this year - Jets, Pats, Browns - bring them on!
A defensive line that actually commands double teams which is allowing our linebackers to fly around.
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12 hours ago, billsfan89 said:
Outside of that stupid option call early in the game it was a very well called game for the most part. Dorsey has stepped up well in the absence of Daboll.
This is what bugs me about fans. If it had scored a touchdown I assume everyone would be raving about what a great call it was.
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1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:
That's not the technique in this case. If you wait for Mahomes to escape or let him sit in the pocket you're already beat. Think of it as a delayed rush then, if that helps.
It is though. You see it all game long.
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4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:
He's not supposed to wait for Mahomes to escape. It's a spy-rush or delayed rush. He needed to rush quicker. Right after the snap, the Chiefs LT/LG double Miller (same thing their right side did on the final play) and Milano need to rush through the lane immediately. He has Mahomes dead to rights where he can't escape up the middle and has Groot pushing the RT back. It would at the very least rush Mahomes' throw. Mahomes probably still would've gotten the pass off. The coverage was deeper on this play and then Taron missed the tackle.
Yes, that's the whole point of a Spy. Play low hole coverage until the QB leaves contain or steps up in the pocket then you're an add-on. Mahomes did neither.
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3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:
When they gave up the catch and run to Moore or whoever it was, Milano was spying Mahomes.
Yeah, thought you were talking about the last play to Kelce. The play you're talking about there wasn't much else Milano could do, Mahomes stayed in the pocket so he was just in no man's land waiting for Mahomes to escape.
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2 minutes ago, bobobonators said:
That clearly didn’t work. Last year we had Hill to contend with, too. We knew they’d be going to Kelce yesterday and we still couldn’t stop it. 2 corners on him? Rush 3? Foul him at the LOS and put him on the ground? My personal goal would be for something like this to not happen again.
30 seconds to 1 min is a lot of time and i get a team like KC will probably find a way. But less than 16 sec we need to put up a Zero there on defense.
And this is by no means a negative thread. Im ecstatic about the win. Im just thinking about the future and how the team should approach this scenario bc im sure it’ll come up again.
The reason it didn't work is because of the pre-snap motion. It was initially double coverage between Rousseau and Milano, but the motion out the backfield pulled Milano off the coverage on Kelce and put it on the back. Edmunds was then tasked with picking up the man coverage on Kelce while coming from across the field. Well designed scheme from KC against our man coverage. Allowed them to throw the hot.
I'm with you though - they need to line up whoever their edge rusher is on that side of the field and run through Kelce's face at the LoS to at least throw off some timing.
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2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:
My thoughts:
When talking about pressure in that situation, I say rush 4. I'm fine with rushing 4 DLs while remaining disciplined OR rushing 3 DL and spy/rush a LB (which the Bills did.) As long as you don't blitz Mahomes. History has proven that doesn't work.
This brings up the LB's dilemma: Milano has to play that perfectly; the spy and the rush, which I don't think he did at the end of the first half, but he played it perfectly at the end of the game.
Next thought: in last season's AFCC the Bengals proved that rushing 3 and adding more DBs works against the Chiefs offense. The Bills did essentially this, but without the DBs. The Bills are able to keep both LBs in because of (at risk of derailing the thread) Tremain Edmunds' coverage skills.
I think the 3 DL rushers with the LB spying/rushing is perfect, it just requires that LB to play with conviction (identify where Mahomes is moving to and then go!)
I was worried about Milano in that first half because he was hesitating, like he was thinking to much. However, he turned it on in the 2nd half with some instinctual plays. I think we saw that reflected in the results at the end of each half, too.
Milano wasn't spying at the end of the first half - he was playing man coverage.
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13 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:
I might barely even rush - 2 or 3 safeties deep and man coverage underneath. Have 1 guy spy and 2 guys rush.
This is exactly what they did.
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7 minutes ago, bobobonators said:
Good point. My only consideration for Bass trying to attempt one of those high kicks he normally does to give the ST time to get down there is field position. It could very well pin them back inside the 20 or 15. But you’re right they may fair catch it and you lose trying to shave seconds off the clock.
i suppose the squib kick was the right thing to do. Again I was happy w that choice yesteday. But then we failed to follow through on defense.
Do we double team Kelce everytime next time?
Should we blitz Mahomes and force him to make a play?They did double him. With Tremaine and what looks like Rousseau.
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6 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:
First off the kicker hit a 62 yard field goal, I'd venture to say most of the time that's not going to happen.
In terms of the squib kick, I think it was the right call. The missed tackle of McKinnon in bounds was a major blunder by the players not the coaching staff. The pass play to Kelce just kills me as one would think we would do everything to stop him from getting it but alas he did. I was upset in the moment since all the joy/momentum we gained for getting the Gabe Davis seemed lost but in retrospect we did stop them but their kicker made a great kick.
Credit KC for a good scheme against our man coverage knowing we'd have to bump defenders with their motion to allow the hot to be thrown to Kelce.
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Bad angle by Taron on the first play to McKinnon. Should have been tackled at the 37ish with about 7 seconds left.
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4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
Sure, but isn't that how that particular delayed blitz play is designed? I'm sure there's a correct term for this sort of blitz, which I don't know.
What I see is that at the snap, 39 (Fitzpatrick) and 51 (Myles Jack) are both in position to defend the run, pick up the back in pass defense if he releases, or blitz. If Singletary releases to Jack's side, Fitzpatrick can blitz. If he releases to Fitzpatrick's side, Jack can blitz.
We keep both the TE and the back in to protect, so we theoretically have a "hat on a hat" except that Saffold moves on.
I mean, the play worked, so I dunno as a fan how worthwhile it is second-guessing it, I just have the fundamental sense the protections didn't work they way they should have. I understand your explanation of the slide protection and who is responsible for what gap, I just have the "something not right here" feels.
It's just called an add-on.
🤷♂️ Don't know what else to tell ya here.
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Just now, Beck Water said:
I think by "he" here you mean Singletary, who took a gap in pass protection? I agree, but the beer offer still stands - once Fitzpatrick reads it's a pass play, I bet the film would show he almost always blitzes.
Oh well, he was late to the fair so no harms. But I do think something is going on with Saffold and the line.
Depends on what the back does. If Singletary had released to his side he would have manned him.
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3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
Right, think we agree much more than we don't.
So is stuff just not being discussed enough pre-game or what?
Because I'd bet you two beers that if we watched film of Minkah Fitzpatrick, he blitzes from that position the overwhelming majority of the time on a clear passing down. And I'd add a bourbon on a bet that most C in the league who try to pass off Cam Hayward (and I'm assuming that's who that is, can't see his #s) will lose him.
Minkah was actually a coverage player on that play. He had combo coverage on the back. When he stepped up away from him that's what gave him the ability to rush the pass since he became a free player.
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4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
I understand the point about not freelancing and making ***** up during the game. I used to get frustrated with Jordan Phillips when he was here on the Bills before because he sometimes did just that on the D side instead of maintaining his gap integrity and it used to result in some gashes for big runs when he guessed wrong.
FWIW, I've heard several podcasts or shows where Eric Wood was talking about this, and his take-home point as I understood it was that rules are not enough to make a top OL in the NFL. The guys and coaches have to be watching film and talking about the traits and tendencies of the specific players in specific situations and how they will modify their rules to handle them in-game.
Oh 100%! Those are adjustments made throughout the week or on the sidelines/halftime during games though not on the fly during a play.
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1 minute ago, Beck Water said:
Kurt Warner seems to believe the underneath throw is the correct call, and the throw to the WR on the LB is going to be a contested catch.
Now obviously it worked for Josh and Shakir, but I think that's where the bird twitter guy calling it a "trust throw" comes in.
Sorry, I can see you think I'm harping on D and that wasn't my point.
No, I'm with you haha. The safest bet there is to throw the under. It was so wide open when the ball left Josh's hand - that's why he took it. The thing I was trying to get across was that it wasn't just a prayer being thrown up that we got lucky on.
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1 minute ago, Beck Water said:
You might be interested in Kurt Warner's piece comparing Denver and Buffalo offensive plays.
This is the first play he diagrams. He IDs it as Tampa 2 and believes the correct QB choice is the underneath guys, but Josh just feels "my guy is better than you" and takes his shot. (So does Russ, but it doesn't work)
It is Tampa 2, but again - tell a QB he's got a receiver 1 on 1 with a linebacker and they're gonna take that shot every time.
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7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
That's actually a very clear verbal description of what I see in the video, well done!
I guess my question is: if one step back is enough to remove a guy as an "threat" to a blocking scheme, how would one ever account for a delayed blitz? It seems such a scheme would be entirely and perennially susceptible to that.
It seems to me that rules have to be able to flex a bit (without rolling into free lancing) to account for the personnel involved. If I'm correct that's Cam Hayward, it's unrealistic to expect Morse to hand him off to Bates like an unwanted sweater. Double that SOB.
And given that's Minkah Fitzpatrick, it seems unrealistic to expect him to be eliminated as a blitz threat because he takes one step back. It seems to me he's using that step back to "sell" Saffold into dismissing him as a threat and turning/looking to his left, and it seems to me that Saffold "takes the cheese".
I wonder if Fina or Wood or someone else commented on that play.
Saffold's eyes hang on Minkah for another second or two after the initial step back, but he can't just sit there and wait on it. He has to protect B gap. So if he were to just sit there with his eyes inside and the 5 tech who stayed outside on Dawkins instead ran some type of pinch and came into B gap he'd have a clear rush lane to the QB. Slide protection works because it's gap based.
Can't start making up rules based on who the personnel is in front of you on any given play. It muddies the waters and then you are just freelancing.
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2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
I understand your explanation of the blocking rules, I'm asking you to explain how, under your rules, Fitzpatrick as the safety is seen as "eliminated as a threat" when he plainly is still there and in fact, as soon as he reads the play as a pass, he blitzes right through the hole Saffold vacates. Meanwhile there's no one else off to the L for Saffold to handle.
I'd be happy to put in pics from the all-22 to illustrate what I'm seeing but they get rejected for being too large. I gotta figure out a way to resize without muss and fuss.
I'm running into the same issue with the pictures, but lets see if I can explain it without them. Fitzpatrick eliminates himself as an initial rush threat as soon as he steps backwards into coverage. You can see as soon as the ball is snapped both Saffold and Morse have eyes on Minkah because pre-snap he is a potential rush threat. Once he declares himself to no longer be an immediate rush threat Saffold no longer has anything holding him to help chip with Morse so he works to his gap side to double for when the defensive end will ultimately work back upfield on Dawkins. Once Morse sees Minkah isn't an initial rush threat his eyes go to backside A to punch the backside A gap rusher to help Bates overtake. As soon as Morse engages with the defender his eyes immediately go back to his gap side (left) because that's ultimately what he is responsible for. Once Morse sees Minkah try to add on he works to disengage from the backside A gap defender to pick up Minkah.
If Minkah had rushed immediately Saffold would have been involved in the block - if he rushed B gap Saffold would have him - if he rushed A gap Saffold would have punched to give Morse time to overtake, but would have gotten eyes back to his B gap after making initial contact with his punch.
Hope that helps clarify.
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1 minute ago, Beck Water said:
Are we talking about the same play? I normally understand you, but I don't at all here.
Saffold does not have the threat eliminated. The threat is Minkah Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick blitzes and hits Josh through the gap Saffold was guarding a moment previously - fortunately just after, rather than just before, Josh releases the ball.
Yes, the 98 yard touchdown play. I explained the blocking rules to the half slide protection that the Bills ran in that original response I linked.
PFF grades from KC...(for what they're worth)
in The Stadium Wall
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What makes you say that?