HoofHearted
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Posts posted by HoofHearted
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2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:
This was going on many years ago with Tom Brady and the Patriots...he would basically line up and if a running play was called but there was a DB playing off coverage on the WR, Brady would simply get the ball, take one step back and fire it out there for him to pick up easy yards without even calling an audible.
I remember a game where they were playing the Steelers and they had a phenomenal run D so the Patriots basically didn't even bother trying to run it and just threw almost every down and were carving them up and crushed them.
The announcers were stunned because that just never really happened back then. Teams always at least tried to run the ball. Basically it was the first time I remember watching a game and seeing those type of short passes used as a team's version of a running game.
Yep. It's called throwing the "gift". Happens a lot on the backside of 3x1. If the corner is playing off on the single side it's an automatic route conversion to a 5 yard stop. It's good stuff. Can't be treated as a replacement to the run game though - schematically those two are very different for a defense.
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12 minutes ago, jletha said:
It really worked well for us, as Dan said. This one and the Shakir one were huge to take the load off of Allen and get chunk yards in the absence of a true run game.
If we can utilize this against blitzing teams to get them out of Cover 2 itll be great.
If you're blitzing you're not running cover 2 behind it. Most you can send is 5.
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14 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:
That is pretty funny, because that used to be one of our biggest weaknesses. I have heard some analysts saying that the short pass and screen game has basically replaced are running game. I tend to agree for the most part.
This is true for most teams right now in the NFL, and you really see it at the college level. The perimeter run game has been largely replace by fast screens, bubbles, and tunnel screens. From a defensive perspective these plays are no different than playing the run - run fits have to be on point. Add RPOs to the equation and now you get the best of both worlds - depending on how the defense reacts you can end up with something hitting inside or outside.
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5 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:
What level do you coach and what's your coaching position?
And for a living you mean this is a full time job love in your own fully through coaching?
I’ve coached everything from high school to DI. I’m currently a DC. Yes, this is my full time job.
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2 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:
I'm going to bite on this one... what exactly does it mean that you "work in the field"... pretty broad statement.
I coach football for a living.
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4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:
First let me say that I didnt say you couldn't post here or anything of the sort. What I said was I dont need or want an education from you. I dont need a masterclass in football. You further pushed the issue as if I was some moron. Im not a moron. K? Im very educated. I probably have more education then a lot of people on this forum because I have worked in multiple trades and I constantly have to retrain or seek new training as technology grows which is every year of my working life for the last 34 years.
Im glad you know football really well. Good for you that you are a coach. I mean that seriously. If that is what you wanted to do with your life then you are right where you belong. As someone not in that field, I simply don't care to know the ins and outs of everything football related. I have eye balls and common sense and enough game knowledge through both play and watching football for 40 years. While I appreciate that maybe you wanted to teach me something, when I say I dont care then that means I dont care. That doesnt mean give me a one liner like Im a moron.
If he looked to that side then he really sucks because his guy was as open as it gets in the end zone when you are on the 5 yardline. Do you dispute that he was open or nah? Do you dispute that maybe sometimes your read should change based on presnap and post snap or nah?
That's fine if you don't "want or need an education", but there are others on this board who do like to know what is actually going on. I wasn't coming at you, I was simply describing what was actually happening within the play design. To be completely honest with you, Milano probably picks that pass off to the #2 receiver if it's thrown right off the snap because of how much it would pull the coverage. Progression can change based on pre-snap looks. In this instance the Bills had 3 over 2 on that top side - there's no logical reason to change the progression. Furthermore, the whole design of the play was to throw Duvernay open on the slant thinking they'd get the rub vs man coverage. The Bills played zone and the slant wasn't there. Lamar got pressured and it turned into scramble drill where all receivers work to open grass in the direction the QB is working to (that's how Duvernay ended up going from slanting to the middle of the field to the sideline). Again, I'm explaining all of this for the people that want to know.
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3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:
I dont think you get my meaning. I know enough about football that I care to know. I've played football and I have been watching football for 40 years. I dont need to know every intricate detail about every facet of football to watch and enjoy the game. I especially dont need to know what exactly is his reads are... hint unless you are him or greg roman you dont know either... to know a receiver is wide open, he didnt get him the ball or even look at him, and he doesnt read more than half the field almost ever. Also that he locked on his target until he threw a flutter ball to Poyer.
I dont need to know everything about football to know what I see. Im not a coach. Im not an NFL player. I know too many other things that are relevant to my life to have room to know stupid ***** that doesnt matter one iota to me. If you want to be a football coach then go ahead and be all high and mighty that you think you know what you know and go apply. Otherwise STFU with your epeen about it. You're on a fan message board not a job interview. People dont need to learn anything more than the basics. I dont give two ***** what that play is called. I dont give two ***** what exact routes those receivers were supposed to run. I dont give two ***** about what his progressions are.
He didnt even go through any progressions. If he had then he would have found the open man and got him the ball. You have said nothing to dispute that with all your football wisdom.
With that, I am done with this conversation with you. Your knowledge about football is only impressive if you have a job in the field. I have knowledge of industrial maintenance, plcs, electricity, machine repair, automated paint control, pumps, pneumatics, hydralics, automotive repair in all aspects because I was a master technician before switching fields, plumbing, HVAC, CNC repair, CNC coding, C++, Python, javascript, html, css, swift, swiftui, uikit, etc, etc, etc no room for mastering everything football.
1) He didn't lock on to a target - you must have missed me explaining that on this reply:
2) See above where I talk about him looking (with screenshot proof) to the two receiver side.
3) I guess you'll be impressed to know that I do work in the field.
I thought this was a football message board - you know - where you talk football. Didn't realize only novice football fans were allowed to post here. That's on me. My bad.
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2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:
I really dont care how football works. Lamar is not a good passing QB. Andrews has more catches than his two primary receivers combined.
Its really ok to recognize that receiver is the play here and he didnt look. You think Allen dont look that way? You think Mahomes dont look that way? You think Brady, Rodgers dont look that way? You think any of those QBs are locking onto one target only?
Then this is a conversation no longer worth having. Everyone is more worried about being right on here than learning something I guess.
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17 minutes ago, Big Turk said:
Watching the John Fina Podcast called Off Tackle again today and his breakdowns are very interesting...
Basically from what he is saying, we currently suck at inside zone blocking that we are trying to do because the players are making technical mistakes in the play in terms of who they are supposed to be blocking or not fully executing their assignments properly(ie, Saffold is supposed to help chip the player lined up across from him before he pulls because Dawkins has no prayer of reaching him to block him otherwise and he doesn't, leading to Singletary being tackled for a loss instead of having a huge lane to run through if it was executed properly).
To be honest, this isn't overly surprising with us changing the running scheme this year coupled with us not running very often for them to get real reps.
I would expect them to get better as the year goes on.
Would highly recommend if you want to get breakdowns by Fina of technical aspects of the run game and why things aren't working as well as they could be,
To be fair we ran a bunch of zone scheme stuff early on last year too and sucked at it. Once we switched over to more gap scheme stuff we started being able to run the ball more effectively.
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Just now, Scott7975 said:
It doesnt matter. The receiver is open as any receiver is every going to get open in the endzone. Good QBs get that player the ball.
It's okay to learn a little bit about how football actually works through these conversations. 😉
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15 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:
He stuck to only one target Andrews until he ran out of time during his back peddle. Thats not progression at all. You cant tell me the most important play in their game only had one read. Lamar is a half field QB. Been his whole life and that hasnt changed in his 5 years of NFL play.
It doesnt look worse than it is. It doesnt get anymore open than that. Yes the coverage would roll but a good QB gets that ball there. Enough excuses.
Andrews wasn't even the first read... Duvernay was. They were trying to pick to get him open. Also, he does look to the two receiver side first to try and pull the RAT that way before looking back to Duvernay. You can see it pull the coverage because of it. Sorry this isn't fitting your narrative big fella.
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27 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:
There are multiple QB's in this league that are getting that ball there to the guy on the left bad read by the QB. Also thought Baltimore should of lined up in a run formation as that would of insured worst case the Bills will be starting inside the 5
It all depends on the read progression of the concept. They came out in Trips Bunch Squeeze to the bottom side of the field for a reason. They were expecting man and trying to run some rub routes to scheme a guy open. The reads are the reads.
19 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:Yes but he never even looked. As I said, Josh Allen would have gotten him the ball and so would many other QBs. It doesnt get any more wide open then that in the redzone in the NFL.
Again, it looks worse than what it is. If Lamar looks left the window closes immediately because Milano is pushing to #2's hip at the snap.
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4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:
yep. Guy is wide open on the left. Gaping holes for Lamar to run through to the left. Instead he back peddled because Andrew was the only read he thought about. This is why Lamar is not an Elite QB, just an Elite athlete.
Drops are based on QB eyes. If Jackson were to have looked Milano's side first the coverage would be a lot tighter backside. It's all about closing down passing lanes.
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1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:
Allen is almost impossible to stop on short yardage when he rolls out. I think Dorsey has been trying to get the backs involved in short yardage, and Moss seemed to do well with it in the preseason, but during the regular season the backs are getting stoned in the backfield. The O-line is just not getting any push at all and we are more likely to lose a yard than gain one when the backs get the handoff.
It was 4th and 1 at the Ravens 26 yard line yesterday. Josh rolled out to his left and there were defenders there prepared for the roll out and it looked like he might get tackled for a loss. Josh did some of his shifty Elvis hips stuff and managed to cut the ball up avoiding the defenders and got 4 yards and the 1st down. Josh is way to big to be as slippery as he is running the ball. Even if a defender gets his hands on Josh he can usually bull forward and drag the defender for a yard or two. Allen's speed, agility, and strength make him very hard to bring down when he gets a head of steam moving along the line of scrimmage and then decides to cut it up.
These Allen roll outs were the most successful method for the team to convert short yardage last season, and despite Dorsey's best efforts, were in the same boat again this year. It's not optimal to have our QB be the short yardage back too, but when the Bills really need to move the ball a yard, rolling Allen out is the best option.
If you're talking about the Naked Bootleg in the redzone it was actually a designed pass.
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Unfortunately, I think he'll be too pricey for us to keep. This board hates him because he doesn't make a ton of splash plays vs the run without an understanding of his role in the run game or how run fits work within our scheme. He's more than just a pass defender and he'll be paid as such.
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6 minutes ago, Virgil said:
Yes, I play Madden too. People get the gist of what’s being said. That’s not what I do here.
If you a better picture, watch the game
I see that I've pushed a button with you. I was genuinely interested in having a scheme conversation with you on why you think our run schemes are not very creative. If you don't know it's okay to admit that and we can discuss some of the stuff you saw if you have clips/highlights.
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12 minutes ago, Virgil said:
I mean, what don’t you understand. Would RPO out of the shotgun paint a better pic for you?Shotgun, 12 personnel, run handoff up the middle….
No, Inside Zone, Counter, Power, Duo, ISO, etc. That would paint a better picture for me.
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24 minutes ago, Virgil said:
8 - Dorsey/Kromer - I know I keep going negative, and I'm sorry, but it's what I saw. Our play calling for running plays, and subsequent blocking support is getting worse each game it seems. After the first Poyer interception, Dorsey called some terrible plays and basically wasted the opportunity. Yes, Dorsey also gets credit for the winning drive, which was perfect, but the run play calling was terrible. I was hopeful after the Rams game, as we showed so many different looks. But now, it's shotgun handoffs between the G/T for no gain on second down. There's no creativity, no push up front, nothing. Where's the jet sweep? Where's the toss play? Where's anything else? The Chiefs right now are scary on offense because they are finding a rushing attack that you have to respect. Right now, I don't know if we could run the ball if the defense only had 3 in the box.
What were some of the concepts we ran and why were they not creative? It's hard to take the word of someone saying we're not creative when the concepts are described as "shotgun runs up the middle".
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I still really enjoy the "he lacks football IQ/doesn't read his keys" comments from people who have zero football IQ or understanding of scheme.
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Just now, Big Turk said:
Did Davis miss a block there? He looks like he wants to block the guy between him and the line(kinda like he did in the Rams game before leaking out for the opening TD) but ends up just standing there doing nothing really.
Yes, he looked confused as to whether he was suppose to crack the blitzing defender or block the receiver. Schematically I would guess he was suppose to crack that inside defender (otherwise why short motion him into the box). It also puts us in a really advantageous match-ups for Josh since he'd be reading the corner. The corner would have to honor the crack and slide inside (which he did) which in-turn makes it a keep for Allen and puts him 1 on 1 vs. a corner on a short edge. I'll take that match-up 100% of the time and feel great about it. I see what Dorsey was trying to do there - really good scheme there.
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12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:
It's actually not, you may just not understand why tho, so it is kinda pointless having actual "real" football conversations with so many people unable to even understand what I am talking about nor understand why it's important. I feel like a physicist trying to explain advanced concepts to 3rd graders.
OK, now this makes perfect sense! That is what I am wanting to figure out...thank you for actually posting something that can be used to learn from and understand why this is happening. It also appears the "read" defender on the play didn't react the way they had hoped as he basically blew up the play by attacking Singletary, although Josh had already handed the ball to him...should Josh have kept it on that paly?
No, Josh made the right call. The defender was aiming directly at Josh with no path to even play the give to Singletary. He was solely a QB player there. You can see in that clip that Singletary gets tripped up by the Morris' guy, not the blitzing defender.
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9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:
Even with seven in the box, seven outnumbers five, even if you throw in a fullback blocking or a WR in motion hitting someone. That's just the way it is. That's why running plays are schemed to create one specific hole rather than four or five.
Very little blame goes to Josh, IMO.
This isn't true. Zone schemes focus so heavily on RB vision because the aiming point changes based on what the defense does. The inside zone play I highlighted above for instance has the back look play side A first, but if it's filled he starts looking backside. That's what makes the scheme dangerous because if your back is really good as seeing thing develop quickly and your OL can sustain blocks you can't be wrong.
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9 hours ago, Big Turk said:
If you can show me any play design that features running to a side where the offensive blockers are outnumbered 6 - 4 by defenders I want to know what it is because I have never seen it. That doesn't require a whole lot of football knowledge of what the players are doing to know that play is not going to work 99 times out of 100.
Having an understanding of the run concept and the blocking scheme helps tremendously when looking at all of this. The Bills are running zone read to Miami's Cover 1 look. In any zone read concept your are purposefully leaving a guy unblocked (this is what you are seeing the majority of the time you're seeing a guy unblocked in the backfield). Josh is reading that defender - if the defender squats at the LoS or is coming directly at him it's a give. If the defender is bending down the heel line of the offensive line to play the dive then it's a keep.
Here's the alignments with the DL movement:
The offensive line blocking rules are covered to uncovered to backside backer. Above you can see how it was suppose to be blocked. Morris got blown up by the slanting defender. Slow reaction and feet in order to get the reach block on him which ultimately blew up the play and forced Motor to try to cut it all the way backside. It's pretty obvious we were not running into an overloaded side - we just didn't block it. If we had it would have been a huge gain as you can see below:
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19 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:
Run blocking vs pass blocking, I imagine that the offensive line is more worried about pass blocking on nearly every rpo since Allen is going to keep it
plus Allen likely keeps it more often than he should to begin with (which isn't necessarily a bad thing since most want the ball in his hands as much as possible)
That's incorrect - all the offensive line hears on a called RPO is the run concept - they are blocking whatever run concept it is tagged with 100% of the time.
Orlovsky: Bills have become one of best screen teams
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Same reason our run game has been poor. Common denominator there... The OL.