oldmanfan
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Posts posted by oldmanfan
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WTF is wrong with everyone this morning? For the last time, I said IF, IF there is a mitigating factor, then it makes sense. I haven't come anywhere NEAR saying there ISN'T a mitigating factor. If he is still hurt it makes total sense. Which, AGAIN, is what I've been saying all along here.
It is simply that he is still hurt as evidenced by him not participating in OTAs. So why throw that hypothetical out there?
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Are you really saying that every affliction that anyone has is totally unique and doctors are completely clueless as to healing timelines? They can't observe the healing process and get a reliable prognosis? In 2017?
I can assure you they have a prognosis. If it is that the foot is healing properly then the Bills made a bad decision and based it on emotion. If the foot is not healing properly then the Bills made the right decision.
Time to add some more snd to your argument. How about throwing in something irrelevant like his rib injury?
Continuing to say a business decision is an emotional decision is just emotional on your part.
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. I work in the medical field , and in fact they can have a prognosis that they are unsure right now as to how his foot will hold up several months from now.Are you really saying that every affliction that anyone has is totally unique and doctors are completely clueless as to healing timelines? They can't observe the healing process and get a reliable prognosis? In 2017?
I can assure you they have a prognosis. If it is that the foot is healing properly then the Bills made a bad decision and based it on emotion. If the foot is not healing properly then the Bills made the right decision.
Time to add some more snd to your argument. How about throwing in something irrelevant like his rib injury?
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It does seem to be a fact that about 50% of high 1st round qb don't work out and increases to >60% later in 1st and in 2nd round.
So what do you propose as an alternative? The "draft QB rarely and give each drafted guy 3 years" approach doesn't seem to be working for the Bills too well.
Scout the heck out of guys. Bias yourself towards guys that have experience in college playing in a pro style offense where they take snaps under center and have to make actual reads. Smart guys who can process information.
My other plan would be to let other teams make their mistakes drafting, watch guys that are perhaps second stringers or guys that show promise, then swoop in at free agency.
I think too many teams reach for QBs in round 1.
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Look at those sands shift. Still no foundation.
I'll repeat:
UNLESS the Bills KNOW that there is an ongoing medical concern with the foot, then McDermott made an emotional decision. If he is chalking it up to anything else, the decision was incorrect.
If:
The doctors are saying "This typically take x months to heal and he is in month x-3, but on track" then it was a bad decision.
McDermott is confident in the foot but thinks of Sammy as injury prone in general, then it was a bad decision.
McDermott just likes to get rid of guys with non-traditional hair like Gilmore, Whaley and now Sammy, then it was a bad decision.
ANYTHING else was a bad decision.
You do not understand medicine if you think the Bills docs can give a definitive word right now. He is not cleared to practice, which should suggest to you his foot at minimum is still affected to a degree. Here and above you claim the Bills and/or McD are irrational. A number of media outlets and others her have reviewed why this makes sense not just for the team but the player. If Sammy lights it up and they choose to tag him it is a couple million more in 2018 when they have more cap space and can easily absorb that.
Perhaps you should reconsider your position and who is rational va. irrational here.
. Or pay 13 million for a guy who can't playIf they picked up option they would have this year AND next to find out if he's worth 100m. Now it's just one. Yes they can tag him but he can force his way out. If they picked up option he couldn't. Bad move.
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it's a little ambiguous to me what you mean by "that approach".
Are you speaking of the approach, "show urgency about the QB position and pursue a QB in the draft even if you already have a QB"
or are you talking about the "wait, don't bet the ranch, next year's crop is better"
More the urgency. In general I don't agree with drafting QB after QB hoping you hit on one.
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In K-9's post directly below yours he nails it. It is what I've been saying too.
My observations about the fans only came into the discussion after 900 vindictive posters rooting for Sammy to fail called him names. Even if they are stupid, fans are supposed to be emotional. Front offices are not.
IF the FO KNOWS Sammy's foot is an ongoing concern and that it may not ever heal properly, they made a rational decision. If the doctors feel it is following the normal trajectory of the injury and that Sammy will be ready to go this season, then the Bills did not act in a rational manner.
Keep shifting the sands of your argument if you must, but be aware that sand never makes for a strong foundation. That is why you're struggling here.
My main issue is you insisting McD is making some kind of emotional decision when he is not.
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I'm not saying his injury is not mitigating. In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite. IF his injury is a mitigating factor, this makes sense. If he is healthy, it doesn't. Sorry for the confusion.
Got you. What I would hope is McD and Sammy had a conversation along the lines of this: we are concerned about the injury, but assuimg it heals up and you play as great as we know you can we'll be ready to give you a new deal where you make top WR money before the 2017 season ends. But if your injury proves bad you can understand we can't commit 13 million if you can't play. I think Sammy and his agent would see the logic. It protects both sides.
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That approach is valid if you hit the right guy. And the misses far exceed the hits. Do the most diligent scouting you can and when you see a guy you think is the guy by all means go for it.What is often forgotten in the qb discussion is that the most propitious time to draft a qb is when you already have an "acceptable" starting qb. One of the worst ways of handling most young qbs is throwing them into the fray when they are not ready. In a discussion with the AlphaDog he took the position that taking Mahomes was a gratuitous act because they already had a starting qb and should have used their pick to select a good positional prospect. I take the opposite position. When you are not in a desperate position that is the time to exhibit foresight and put your team in a good position to make the seamless transition to a better qb.
As you well know the argument that is used is justifying delaying in selecting a qb is that the next year's crop is better. The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb in almost a quarter century. Yet that argument continues to be used. It makes little sense. The reality is that the teams that took the first three qbs in this draft acted aggressively by giving up picks to acquire them. They all exhibited an urgency and resoluteness that the floundering Bills haven't exhibited during its past generation of failure. And that is not a coincidence, it is a consequence of its perplexing passive attitude in addressing an issue that has held this franchise back.
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If the bolded is true, then I'd understand the decision. Otherwise it is inarguably stupid.
If you're going to defend your opinion, then defend it. Don't keep flip flopping on who said what or mischaracterizing what I said. I never said that language came from OBD. I said it came in this thread and from fans.
I did say the actions of OBD are irrational and emotional unless they know something unpublished about the injury. I don't think it rises to the level of hysterical and never used that word. But, if you are going to continue to mischaracterize what I said then have fun.
Who cares about the fans opinion. What counts is what the docs know. And no one here has a clue about that.
And you claim OBD is irrational when it seems you are the only one acting in that manner
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Yes. That is why I said "another viewpoint" and "perhaps". We know the storyline, we don't know the ending. Maybe the ending is "happily ever after". Or maybe not.
I am in favor of firing Whaley and the scouts, only because I am tired of the divided responsibility and excuses. People here still blame Whaley for EJ and 2013 draft (under Nix as GM) but credit Nix for Hughes (same timeframe) and credit Ryan for Tyrod Taylor etc. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle.
So let McWrestler drive the show entirely, including chosing "his" GM and let the lines of responsibility be clear.
Time will tell
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My assumption is that there isn't a mitigating factor. If there isn't, this decision makes zero sense.
How can you say his injury is non-mitigating when he hasn't been cleared for OTAs?
Look at the adjectives used to describe him throughout this thread and tell me how a reasonable objective person could use them. Fragile, female body part, blah blah blah.
Watch out Eich. You're next.
Has anyone at OBD used this language? No. in fact McD has said he and Sammy have had discussions and he looks forward to him having a good season.
You are the one being hysterical about this. Not McD.
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I will reserve judgment on McD until I see his ability to be a game day coach. I like his message of accountability but did not like how he handled the Whaley thing.
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. And if Mahomes craps out and TT looks good on Dennison'soffense they'll look smart.Perhaps. Another viewpoint on the topic would be, the Bills have had 2 years to see how Taylor develops. Several experts feel "what you see is what you get" and it isn't enough for the long haul as an NFL QB. If Taylor had been released and the Bills had gone after a QB in this draft, as the Bears and our trade partner, KC, did, we could have drafted potentially our QB of the future, and kept Gilmore vs. creating a hole while letting drafted talent walk.
I personally wanted to keep Taylor, but if Mahomes succeeds, the new GM and his scouts better be sterling talent evaluators or the Bills decision to fire Whaley and the current scouts will look...."Bills-y" in hindsight.
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. Your assumption is the likely main reason they held off on the 5th year.Enough said. Throw him the ball and he produces. Pretty simple.
Assuming there isn't a mitigating factor relative to his health, I don't like this decision.
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We are putting a lot of faith in a braintrust from a franchise that was a bit middling outside of one fantastic year from Cam.
You do realize the league has a committe of respected guys like Polian, Dungy etc who had McDon their list of excellent candidates?
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While Russ Brandon is still in the building or we make the playoffs, I'm not buying this new regime talk. The Bills as an organization have earned zero leeway with the fans at this point. This looks headed down the same road as our other top talent and I believe we'll see him playing for someone else soon with little to no compensation coming back to us. You can have all your blind faith in a "new regime", there's no more "fully pregnant" in my book.
Be as irrational as you want. I agree we need to see how McD actually coaches but if you're one of those who thinks Brandon calls the shots it is clear you can't be reasoned with.
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It's worth noting that the #1 predictor of WR production is targets.
The reason guys like Beckham and Evans out-produced Sammy is because they get significantly more targets.
That was the basis of Sammy's complaint in 2015, and his performance bore that out--he was the 4th-most targeted WR in the NFL over the final 9 games of 2015, and lo and behold, he was the most productive WR in the NFL over that span.
Targets are the key.
One would hope Dennison realizes Sammy can be used on bubble screens, quick slants, etc.
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We should absolutely trade him. Regardless of what we want to do with with the franchise tag or a long term contract, Sammy is going to be playing for someone else in 2019. We've seen this same story over and over, Winfield, Clements, Byrd, Peters, Poz, Lynch, McGahee, Gilmore, the list goes on and on. He's not getting the option because he's been hurt, not because of on field performance and not because of off field drama, he's been hurt playing football, and not even as hurt as some people want to make it seem (played all 16 games in 2014, then 13 then 8 with the foot last year). That' s a slap in the face to Sammy.
It is a new regime and you want to compare to old ones. If Sammy is healed up and Dennison uses him right he'll get a big offer from OBD.
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Not saying this will happend, but there is a very real chance that McCoy, Watkins, and Clay are all gone by 2018. McCoys age and cap number may get him cut. Clay hasn't been very productive but I blame the QB. Still team may find his cap number isnt worth it. Letting go Sammy would just be one of the dumbest moves in this history of the Bills organization. At this point not one of those players has a replacement on this roster. This team is in huge trouble.
If you're not saying it will happen then why is the team in deep trouble?
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The Bills have doctors that are able to supply them with a highly accurate prognosis. "Wait and see" is completely unnecessary. If they already know that he will never heal fully, then they made the right choice. Otherwise they are acting as irrationally as the people in this thread calling Sammy "injury prone" as if Cooks or Beckham could never get injured.
How did you determine the odds of him being hurt. How abut his trade value now and a year from now with and without the option?
The phrase "continues to be fragile" summarizes the irrational stance many in this thread have taken. For some it has spun out of control to the point where they hate the best player on their favorite team. McDermott is evidently equally emotion based, at least in this case.
Will Jack Eichel be next? His injury is being blamed in part for the Sabres season. What if next season he gets slashed in game one and breaks his wrist? Fragile? Should we hate him?
Newsflash: human bones break.
You apparently don't understand medicine either
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If its a great move, and we are in such a hurry to franchise tag him, why does any team pick up the option?
It's relatively cheaper for teams to pick up the option.
They want to make sure he is healthy. It's that simple.
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I disagree. Tyrod Taylor, after the Bills have removed so much talent from the team and are in the process of replacing them with a bunch of washed up never was players, is a guaranteed tank QB and we don't even have to try to lose like the Colts and Browns did in their tank seasons.
Sean wants to lose now. He wants to get his QB next year. Then he wants to win.
The day they re-signed Tyrod was the day the decision to tank was official.
Look at the roster on offense. I think you're smoking some weird stuff.
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No, you do.
And it really isn't even an opinion. It is a plain and provable fact. The ONLY thing that could explain otherwise is if the Bills already know he has some injury that will never heal. We'd probably all know that by now.
Not only do you have it backward but you can't distinguish your opinion from fact.
They want to be sure he is completely healed. This move gives both sides flexibility. He comes out and lights it up the Bills can offer him a big deal starting 2018.
Bills Decline 5th Year Option on Sammy Watkins
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Hopefully he stays on track. If I were OBD and he lights up training camp I either extend him a year for the 13 nil or do a new multiyear deal.
Wanting to be sure he's OK is not a bad thing.