HappyDays
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I don't want to trade for Aiyuk even if we can somehow make it work under this year's cap (and I believe this would be literally impossible in any case). The fact that this is an incredible WR class gives us an opportunity to get two very good WRs on rookie contracts instead of tying up a bunch of cap space.
I also don't want to trade up in the 1st, for similar reasons. If we made a huge trade up for one of Nabers, Harrison, or Odunze, I suppose I would understand it. Not what I would do but I get trying to add a true #1 WR to immediately replace Diggs. But trading up for anybody else would be a big mistake IMO. I would rather get two very good WR prospects than just get Brian Thomas Jr (admittedly I'm lower on him than most, but even the consensus says that he is a tier below the top 3).
My goal in this draft would be to come away with two WRs in the top 50. If a trade down partner is there I would try to trade back and get a 3rd rounder back, but staying at #28 and picking the best WR available would be perfectly fine. I would then trade back up into the 40s using one of our 2025 2nd rounders.
Using that strategy, I would come away with two of the following WRs:
Keon Coleman
Xavier Legette
Troy Franklin
Ladd McConkey
Adonai Mitchell
Xavier Worthy
I have my preferences from that list, and ideally we would draft two WRs that complement each other (one X, one Z), but I'm less concerned about the specific players drafted than I am about the position.
Imagine coming away with two young studs at WR with high upside traits, to kick off the 2nd half of Allen's career. That should be the goal.
If this strategy comes after an initial trade down we would still have one more top 100 pick to fill another need with a good prospect, and a litany of day three picks to fill out the rest of the roster. We would eventually enter 2025 with a normal complement of draft picks and a relatively good cap position. I would expect somewhat of a mini rebuild in 2024 but the future would look bright, and who knows maybe the rookie WRs hit the ground running and the offense looks even better than it did last year before long.
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18 minutes ago, FireChans said:
When Mahomes is 15-1 in the playoffs against QB’s not named Brady, it’s not a uniquely Bills problem
I know. But we happen to have the only QB in the league that can actually match Mahomes' play in the playoffs, so naturally it's frustrating that our current regime can't find a way to make that work. Assign blame to McDermott and Beane however you wish. Just don't be so simple as to say "Mahomes has 3 Super Bowls, Allen has 0, therefore Mahomes is in a completely different tier." Any difference in play between Allen and Mahomes is not the reason for the difference in their teams' results. To make that claim is to say that, like I said above, elite players and elite coaches don't matter.
I mean I've seen real people on this forum say that Brock Purdy deserved to finish ahead of Allen in MVP voting. That's how insane the conversation has gotten. I guess it needs to be reminded from time to time that QBs represent the plurality of their teams' success, not the majority.
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2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:
100 percent. I can't stand the "Mahomes is the best cause he wins SB argument". It's so lazy
If people say Mahomes is better than Josh, that's fair of course. But to use the SB argument is extremely lazy
Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.
By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.
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7 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:
I didn't know Mahomes and Josh played individual sports. I thought football was a 53 man team game, but what do I know.
You'll find in this discussion that certain people have to pretend elite players and elite coaches don't matter. To me it's simple - If Allen and Mahomes play equally in a matchup, the Bills will lose every single time. Because in that scenario the people around Mahomes are far and away better than the people around Allen and that will be the difference. For us to get past Mahomes we either need to get a couple of elite players or we need a new coaching staff, or we have to just hope Mahomes happens to play below his standard. Under our current circumstances there's no realistic scenario where Mahomes plays well and we beat the Chiefs, and nothing Allen can do to force that to happen. He played the best game of his career against them in 2021 and it still wasn't enough. If people can't see that, it's on them.
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1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:
That's exactly how he felt. Diggs would give his life to win a Superbowl. Josh Allen is just happy to be in the conversation
He would give his life but he wouldn't attend OTAs? Trust me, the public image of Diggs as a football obsessed workout warrior is a mirage. He is the type that loves holding others to impossibly high standards but makes excuses for himself.
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23 minutes ago, TPS said:
He might fall down the board a bit, but that's the kind of things the Bills shy away from. No chance now.
I think when you're a team like the Bills picking late year after year you have to be willing to take advantage of opportunities like this, where say the 40th ranked player on your board is available at pick 60 because of one really stupid mistake. Obviously you have to do a deep dive into the person and make sure it is in fact just one mistake, not part of a larger pattern.
Who knows, maybe he even drops all the way to day three. He isn't an elite prospect. Some teams might drop him off their board entirely and decide the risk isn't worth the player. I personally would not go that far unless I uncovered a pattern of behavior.
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I'm posting this because I've seen a lot of people peg him as a Bills target in the 2nd round, although I never thought he would make it to our pick. With this news it's possible he falls down the board.
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One thing I'll say about Beane is that I think he has learned from his mistakes, although it took him too long in some cases. Failing to sign DeAndre Hopkins last offseason is arguably his worst mistake yet, but this year he signed Curtis Samuel and is almost certain to draft a WR with his first pick so at least he is trying to rectify his mistake. This offseason probably has been his best yet, cutting overpriced players that repeatedly fail in the playoffs, finally making a real investment at WR, going cheap with defensive line depth instead of inexplicably overpaying backup players, and managing to secure more draft value for Diggs than other highly paid veteran WRs are getting these days. He still has to manage the draft well but he's made some very shrewd moves this offseason. He also is genuinely a great executive and presents well for the organization.
I compare that to McDermott who I think has learned practically nothing over the last few years. I'm confident Beane can build a championship caliber team even if he may not be the very best at what does. McDermott I am not confident can coach a championship caliber team. That's where I'm at with this regime. If Pegula chose to move on from McDermott next year and let Beane choose his replacement I would be good with that.
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17 hours ago, Brand J said:
That opening Jets game last year was striking to me because I didn’t think a 6 year superstar QB could still play that badly.
Mahomes played that badly in a couple games too. He was the main reason they lost to the Broncos and Raiders, and almost lost to the Jets. You have to accept that Allen and Mahomes are never going to be as consistent as Brady was. But when they're at the top of their game they're better than anyone that's ever done it.
A lot of Bills fans have, well, Bills fan syndrome where they only watch every snap that our guy takes and only highlights of the other guy. That skews perceptions. But on the whole Allen and Mahomes have been pretty much equivalent QBs since 2021 in terms of their actual play on the field.
I don't know what Allen's workout regiment looks like. He started the season with bad games in 2021 and 2023, but started with excellent games in 2020 and 2022. There's no pattern to discern. All I know is a QB doesn't produce like he has without seriously working at it. And his play undoubtedly has been Super Bowl caliber. It's now a matter of the rest of the team catching up to him.
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I wonder which team is putting out this lukewarm attempt at a character assassination to make Nabers fall. Maybe the same team that unearthed Allen's old tweets from when he was 15 🤔
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I could make peace with trading away next year's 1st knowing that we will likely have a high 2nd rounder by way of Minnesota/Houston, but giving away this year's 2nd is a bridge too far IMO. Having just one pick in the top 125 of a good draft class would be disappointing. And I love Nabers, he's my favorite Bills fit in the class, I just don't think we can afford to give away so many resources considering we just jettisoned a bunch of starters. Draft two WRs in the top 50 and there is still a good chance one of them becomes a superstar, and we can easily pull that off if we maneuver around the board.
One option I've considered for a trade up (but I don't think Beane would) is using Spencer Brown like we used Cordy Glenn in 2018. He's entering a contract year and personally I think he will price himself out of Buffalo - when you have a franchise QB contract you can't pay a RT top of the market money. Getting good draft value back for him one year before he walks in FA would make sense.
The Steelers would make sense for that idea. They probably want to move Broderick Jones to LT. Going from #28 to #20 in exchange for Spencer Brown would be the equivalent of getting pick #77 for him which I think is fair. Maybe we can also finagle a pick swap as part of the deal, their #98 for our #128. In that scenario the total trade value would be equivalent to us getting pick #65 for Spencer Brown. For a young RT on the rise that feels like the right value.
If we are at pick #20 we could trade up to #6 with the Giants without giving away exorbitant draft capital. Probably our 1st next year with maybe our newly obtained 3rd this year. I think 4 QBs will end up coming off the board before any other position, so at #6 we would have 2 to choose from out of Harrison, Nabers, and Odunze. We'd still have our 2nd rounder and 7 picks on day three. Heading into 2025 we'd have no 1st but two 2nds, a typical complement of picks after that, and some comp picks coming too.
I talked myself into this. At the expense of a starting RT and a future 1st rounder we could come away with an elite WR1.
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1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:
I think that this draft has been a great exercise. It shows what a difficult spot 60 might be.
It makes me more confident that the Bills should use a 2025 2nd to trade up into the 40s. I really think coming away with two highly drafted WRs that can play outside is a requirement out of this draft. We have two starting spots open. It makes sense to use the draft value we got back from the Diggs trade to find his replacement.
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Fiske already turned 24 in January. Jenkins will be turning 23 in October.
I vote Jenkins because I think he's the higher upside player. He made Bruce Feldman's freak list. He's a bit undersized but not as undersized as Fiske.
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I would have liked this trade better last year. This year is all about building the new core of WRs that will play with Allen in the 2nd half of his career. I'm not looking for mercenaries, I'm looking for cornerstones.
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21 hours ago, Billl said:
81 targets for 45 catches, 746 yards, 7 TDS, 56% catch rate and 9.2 yards per target
119 targets for 66 catches, 1114 yards, 8 TDS, 56% catch rate and 9.4 yards per target
That’s Gabe and DK.
Uh yeah, that's Gabe and DK. DK regularly gets himself in more favorable positions which means he gets 2.67 more targets per game than Gabe which is a whopping difference in NFL terms. He produces like this despite teams specifically game planning to stop him and with a much worse QB than Allen throwing him the ball.
How did you think this post made the point you were trying to make?
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47 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:
When last year? After he got suplex by sauce Gardner? Went on the injury report for a back injury
No. I reported this in the original Diggs trade thread:
QuoteYou know what, now is a good time to spill the beans on what I was told earlier this year - In the home Patriots game, Diggs chose to sit out the first drive of the 2nd half because he was upset with Allen's play in the 1st half. It wasn't an injury or part of the game plan. He decided to screw over his team and sit out a drive because he couldn't get over himself.
I suspect other stories like this will come out in the coming days. A couple aren't mine to tell. Guy was a total headcase and a major distraction in more ways than one.
He really was just a distraction and a nuisance. Why do you think we are paying more to get him off the team? You think Beane is just buying into media rumors?
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15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:
Being frustrated that you didn't win... Is different than publicly destroying or criticizing your team
Can you bring up a link.. with diggs , actually criticizing the bills organization? Calling it a bad place to play? Or they don't know what they're doing? Or I'm carrying this franchise?
Or was it just frustration that every single athlete shows...
Did diggs go on Twitter or to the national media and say I'm done with Buffalo? I can't play here anymore? Or anything like that
I think going out of his way to go on different shows and podcasts expressing his unhappiness with the team was destructive behavior. It went beyond expressing frustration that we couldn't win, he was specifically criticizing the organization. No I'm not going to back and find those interviews, it's impossible to find anything on the internet that's over a year old. It was discussed on here at the time.
Anyways it's now obvious that the organization agreed his behavior was destructive because they just gave him away and took on a larger cap hit to do it. The debate is over. Diggs' behavior was unprofessional and counterproductive.
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8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:
Pissing on a guy who has never publicly said anything bad about the city or organization
He went on a media circuit for a couple weeks after the Bengals divisional loss and publicly criticized the team and our inability to get over the hump. This is why I never understood people that tried to hand wave away his behavior. It wasn't a secret, he was very open about his displeasure on multiple occasions.
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18 minutes ago, krf139 said:
Tim Graham (who I previously thought was one of the few good ones) is now reporting how Allen snapped at Diggs after the Week 1 loss to the Jets. It's such a disservice and somewhat disingenuous to withhold information like this until he's gone.
To be fair every reporter withholds certain information that they learn. If they didn't, they'd lose access to the team.
The people who should feel a bit sheepish right now are those on here and in the Bills media world who tried to claim that 1) Diggs has never been a distraction and the media drove all of the controversy, and/or 2) Diggs' contract made it "impossible" for him to be traded.
On the first point, a lot of people deliberately buried their heads in the sand and came up with various excuses to explain away Diggs' obviously distracting behavior. On the second point, I hope people have learned by now that NOTHING is impossible in the NFL.
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24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
Yet the back to back reigning Super Bowl champs fielded one of the worst stable of WR's the past 2 years in the league.
We can probably just agree not to use the Chiefs as a comparison. They won a Super Bowl four years after drafting a RB in the 1st round, with a below average LT, and without a WR1. That doesn't mean we should draft a RB in the 1st round, jettison Dawkins, and stop trying to upgrade the WR room. It just means that the Chiefs coaching staff is like two tiers above any other coaching staff in the league, and several more tiers than that above our own. That plus an elite QB plus the GOAT TE means they can violate the usual standards of championship team building and get away with it. They are the new Patriots, unfortunately. We are only going to beat them through sheer accumulation of offensive talent.
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With the 53rd pick, the Philadelphia Eagles select Malachi Corley, WR, Western Kentucky. Cleveland @BarleyNY is on the clock.
Howie Roseman is too smart a GM not to take advantage of a strong WR class. With no 3rd round pick, it's now or never. I don't mind admitting Roman Wilson or Ricky Pearsall would have been the pick at #50, but alas they came off the board just a couple picks beforehand. So we are dipping into the next tier of WRs to make sure we get one without reaching too far down our board.
WR is a sneaky need for the Eagles. Yes we have arguably the best top 2 duo in the league, but behind them it is the dregs. Our 3rd WR last year (Olimade Zaccheus, who Bills fans may remember in heartbreaking fashion) collected just 164 receiving yards. We need much better depth at the position. Corley profiles as someone that can immediately play out of the slot and out of the backfield as a Curtis Samuel-esque or Deebo Samuel-esque weapon. Pairing an X factor like him with AJ Brown and DeVonta Smith will give nightmares to defensive coordinators.
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44 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:
He’s capable of both the Gabe and Beasley roles.
Has he caught a single outside vertical route? I can't recall one.
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With the 50th pick, the Philadelphia Eagles select Payton Wilson, LB, NC State. Pittsburgh @julian is on the clock.
This is the 2nd time this draft where BPA and need happen to match up perfectly for us.
Our LBs have been dreadful in recent years and a clear weakness on the team. Devin White signed a one year prove it deal but who knows how that will turn out. Nakobe Dean was on IR twice last year. It is just a position that we haven't been able to get right.
Payton Wilson has the profile of a modern sideline to sideline coverage LB. Speed, movement skills, fluid hips, ability to blitz. Maybe he won't hold up against the run but we own the (unofficial) Guinness World Record for heaviest interior DL so we'll keep him clean.
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1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:
The Stephen A. Smith-ization of sports tv shows is why I don’t watch them anymore. Who sits and watches two guys yelling at each other about things that dont even matter in life?
It's interesting because Florio & Simms are the only talking head duo I regularly watch and they almost never get heated like this. That's why I watch them, they aren't pro wrestlers creating fake drama. When they do argue like this it's because they genuinely disagree. Just my two cents.
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interesting WR scenario posed by a friend
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
I like Simms but his track record on WRs is not particularly good. He gets blown away by physical traits, to a fault. BTJ can certainly release and separate vertically, but he has question marks everywhere else. My issue with him is that he isn't an alpha at the catch point. Can a pure vertical WR with a limited route tree and without elite catch ability really be a true #1? I have my doubts.