shoshin

If you think Trump won, then you must think there was a giant conspiracy to pull off this fraud no? What path is that?

Tuition went up BECAUSE of loans. The feds pumped a ton of dough out...and colleges built cathedrals to entertainment and hired like mad.

A story is much easier to believe. There's intrigue. It makes narrative sense. The Hollywood-ing of the Q-Anon Deep State narrative is syrupy sweet momma's milk for its audience. The possibility that people try their best, sometimes fail, sometimes succeed, chaotic events intervene, alliances work, then don't, and that our time is like a million other times before (except we have more wealth, peace, food etc)...is a crappy narrative. Much easier and so much more exciting to our egos to believe that the forces of good and evil are facing off RIGHT NOW and WE LIVE IN THE MOST CRITICAL MOMENT EVER.

Well...2016 was much closer than this election so... As you know, you didn't answer my question. But unlike you, I'll answer yours because I take an accusation of a breach of honor seriously. I hope you didn't make that allegation in a flip way. "Define "accept the winner" as it relates to Russia, Ukraine Impeachment and the democrat majority in the house. " In full disclosure, I am not sure that I understand your question and feel free to clarify if you want. Russia: Not sure who won. America lost. I've discussed this elsewhere recently. I "accept the winner" in that I accept that there was no collusion. Ukraine impeachment: Not sure who won. America lost. The inquiry made sense to me. The impeachment did not. I "accept the winner" in that I accept the verdict. Democrat majority in the house: No idea what you mean here. Dems have won more elections and thus have the majority. I "accept the winner" in that I accept the results of the election.

I have a friend who's been waiting in a holding room at a hospital for going on 19 hours because they can't get him a recovery room at any of 3 local hospitals. Has a broken wrist and the docs figure he's "ok" waiting a couple days. This is the part of the pandemic where the system can't keep up.

You said people left this forum because people here were attacking individuals. DR was first suspended, then banned for exactly that, as SDS explained. And The Departed followed The Prophet. Agreed, but I assume that's just for trolling not callouts. He's on block for me so I don't see his stuff except when it's quoted.

You believe in the lack of evidence. Can you render an answer about who won the 2016 election or is it also too soon? How about 2000? What is your usual evidentiary time period to render an opinion about who won an election?

Erm...that's exactly what DR was first suspended and then banned for.

It's good that we have openminded people like you Tibs.

Endowments are complicated. My daughter goes to an Ivy with an endowment in the multi-tens of billions. But that money has to be spent on the terms it was endowed, so it's not like a school can just willy-nilly fund scholarships. This is an annoying part of the endowment management game. The tuition mutually assured destruction game started when well-intentioned legislatures increased student loans to epic sizes. The thinking was that they made schools more reachable. Schools saw a bunch more cash so they built these cathedrals not to learning but to entertainment. And also administration. Unintended consequences. She was an only child with dedicated parents. No trust fund unfortunately!

You cut the deal you can, you make the payments you can. Banks in the US can't jail you for not paying your loan. Keep paying. Forgiveness is not the answer. By the way, I consolidated mine a long time ago and am still paying. My wife finished hers off a few years ago but her parents paid for her undergrad so she had a jump on me!

It's not complicated and I'll make it easier and less incindiary for you: Biden winning is (one of, if not THE) biggest deep state caper of all time vs. Trump lost Which is it? I'll answer your framed question if you answer mine. If I welch on that, you can call me a person of low moral character and I will be proven so. I asked first.

If student debt is 1.9 trillion, why forgive just former students? That only benefits the educated. Why not give 1.9 Trillion to every citizen? 6 grand a person. The idea that we can just keep spending and that taking out a loan comes without obligation, is irresponsible and teaches and encourages irresponsible behavior. When you take out a loan, you pay it back. It's giving your word whether it's a loan, promise, or bet. People of character fulfill their obligations. People of no character do not.

Like hydrochloroquine, no studies show it's effective. D you get from sun exposure. Not sure if it's as effective swallowing (though I've been taking it for about a year).

If Hunter goes down, and he may, imagine what awaits the Trump progeny.

For sure vitamin D may play a role but I'd point to the swiss cheese model above. It's not one thing.

Nope. Answer my question. Don't dodge.

On what moral basis? People took out loans. I'd like my mortgage forgiven too.

It's a reality as you chose to present it and as you choose to believe it. Big difference. You want Biden to be a miserable failure. The only way to judge a president a failure is if America is worse off than it was 4 years ago.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that. The root of almost all of our problems at the moment is less in disagreement IMO, and more in incivility, made possible hiding behind keyboards. The things we say here we'd never say to the parent sitting next to us at our kid's soccer game.

You want to prove something for which there is no evidence. Why is this the first election ever where we don't accept the winner? I suspect because Trump keeps up this narrative and these court cases that are getting laughed out of every court. I ask the Occam's Razor query again specifically of you only: Republican SC justices including Kavanaugh, Gorsich, and Barrett, Republican PA Legislature, 4 R governors, Multiple R federal court judges and many Trump appointees, as well as all the dem operatives, all engaged in the biggest deep state caper of all time vs. Trump lost Which do you think happened?

That is a real string of false choices, as I suspect you know. And it makes for binary thinking that creates division. That's rooting against America. When Trump gave his first speech as POTUS, I was cheered by it. It was his most unifying message. I linked it to my liberal friends who all hated me because I didn't vote for Clinton but I told them: "Listen to this guy. He's got the right message." That lasted about 30 seconds. I rooted for him. I still root for him here in the last few weeks. I want no American president to fail, even though some do in some ways.

Relying on the random acts of individuals and groups is all we have to combat it until now. I can only go from what I see. Summer helped everywhere that is not SoCal. Here's a possible narrative. Summer followed the strictest shutdown we had in the spring: In the spring, we had little knowledge of the virus and there was energy to be diligent in the lockdown efforts. I suspect those efforts yielded a case slowdown. Summer came and cases were lower coming out of spring, distancing was still going on but lots of people were hanging outdoors. Note where cases rose in the summer: Very hot places where people went indoors (South). Cold comes...seeded by a sh##-ton more cases than we had to seed from in January...and more importantly an exhaustion from being locked up and no more ability to be locked up economically...and cases are shooting up. SoCal may benefit from weather but it doesn't benefit from people traveling in from all over and it can't stop the exhaustion from Covid lockdowns. I have gone out with people and seen relatives this fall that I definitely would not have seen in the spring. My wife sees patient families every day in person where in March and April she was totally remote. We're not in the same mindset we had in April. For the most part, that's OK: Everyone needs to take care of their own selves to get through this. But the aggregate effect is more deaths and hospitalizations.

Perfectly said. For the most part, this board is now more centrist. The Departed were less left or right and more conspiratorial. But the defining characteristic here was a race to be viciously uncivil, and I'm far from being guilty of being terrible myself. That's why it's nice to see Lehnard over here, and most of the people here treating him respectfully. Shows that it's possible to be civil without having an echo chamber on a message board. We don't need intolerance of ideas: We do need intolerance of incivility. Of course we still have trolls (TBBills and Unforgiven, himself one of The Departed) and it would be nice to eject them but things are a lot less hot over here these days. If PPP were to stay, and I'm still not sure that's a good idea, a bigger *civil* tent would be nice.

I went there to see what the fan base thought of Fitz vs. Tua a few weeks ago and that's when I saw their politics statement. Sounds like they had a PPP that went sour.