Chuck Wagon

If you wait long enough the league will feel sorry for you and give you a free QB. However, if you trade up and draft a QB at the top of the draft and he busts, the NFL will take the team and move it to London.

Allen with Oklahoma's talent and coaching would be the clear #1 in fans minds IMO. I don't think NFL scouts and decision makers have Baker anywhere near as high as fans do.

Who hurt you?

The few Giants fans on their message board (man, we are lucky with this board) are demanding the 2019 1st as part of the package.

Does that count the last two QBs they actively traded?

The #2 pick behind the Browns feels like a very good spot to be, no one I would rather have picking a QB in front of you. Bills fans have been conditioned to accept mediocrity and fear anything different.

I'm already more than a little nervous 5 QBs could go top 11 without us trading in.

Heck, 2004 was a different era. If this were 2004 we are likely getting our choice of Mayfield (too short) or Allen (small school) at 12.

If they don't find a QB they are getting fired anyway. May as well take the swing on an elite guy.

I consistently disagree with most everything you say.

If the Browns were still being run by a lawyer, the price the Eagles paid may still have some relevance.

Just a PSA "If they trade up, they had better be 99.9% sure that's the guy" is not an insightful thought.

Rosenthall is on the "around the nfl podcast" that ripped us for trading Cordy Glenn and now having a huge hole at LT.

No, he wasn't.

The Giants moves all offseason have felt like they expect to get a big infusion of draft picks. For all we know, Beane and Gettleman could have agreed to a deal a month ago and decided to just watch the speculation run crazy. The way we played free agency with QBs certainly felt like we had something up our sleeve.

Simply put, yes. Darnold & Rosen have been the guys everyone has been drooling over for over a year. Allen was the intriguing mystery and Baker charged his way onto the scene (though that feels more like a media/fan creation than real scouting). Mahomes was viewed as a wildcard, basically a less polished Allen from a system notorious for allowing QBs to outshine their talent.

From the Giants POV, if you do the deal now you also get 5 weeks to potentially work back up from 12 into the "elite" tier. Yep, not going to happen. Turning down ~5 high value picks to take a guard or even a RB #2 overall is not how you start a regime as GM.

If Cleveland is open to going down to 12 from 4, then a 3 team trade certainly makes some level of sense. You sell the Giants that they'll get the exact same player at 4 as 2, they get some incentive to make the move, while the Browns get #12 & #22 and the bulk of the later picks. Plus the Bills and Giants get the bonus incentive of the Jets screw job.

Completely agree Denver is the true threat here. That's why we are going to need to overpay. The very real possibility exists of the Giants just taking #5, a future 1st, a 2nd this year and possibly something else and walking out with the exact same player they would at 2.

Too risky. That basically gives the Giants a month to sit there and wait for the Dolphins to offer 4 1st round picks or the Broncos to offer #5, 2 1sts, other picks. If you agree to a deal in principle, send the paperwork in. If something happens that you aren't comfortable with the pick at 2, you can always shop the pick.

Details

That's like showing up at a Mercedes dealership with $500 and a ham sandwich and saying "I don't care what the price you have on the car, I'll give you $500 and this sandwich!"

It's one thing to take that approach when you are talking to the Giants / Colts / maybe even the Browns at 4. But one of those teams made their move. If we are anywhere close to getting the deal done, you get it done. You don't risk Miami / Denver / Arizona etc doing something crazy. You think people were upset after the Jets made their move, what happens if the Dolphins throw all in and get pick #2, the Jets & Dolphins both walk out with franchise QBs we have to see for the next 10 years + and we just sit on a pile of draft capital with AJ McCarron and Mason Rudolph "battling it out"?

And the second we actually got two good tackles on the roster we traded one to ensure the 5th best QB in the draft (absent another move up).

QB? If the season started tomorrow we wouldn't even put a middle linebacker on the field. Now that's a hole.