[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

59 minutes ago, ScottishBills said:

Coaches are blamed as that is the easiest lever to pull.

You cant change (all) the players.

You cant dump all the contracts.

You cant just get rid of the nearly man syndrome that has put a downer on a largely excellent 5 years

 

But if we agree it wouldn't be good enough to do the same for the next 5 years - then the coach and GM are the things that can be changed to try and engineer a better result, the ultimate result.

 

 

I get that, but it is why fans tend to over index the impact that has. I think this regime has been for a couple of years in year to year territory. I think they overachieved slightly last year, this year it looks like they will underachieve, and that could very well mean time for a change. But I still overall don't think it is really coaching that is holding us back. I do think the team building approach has, and while that is largely on Beane I do believe he and McDermott are broadly aligned on the philosophy (though it doesn't excuse Beane blowing some of the picks). There is some merit in a fresh voice and fresh outlook and I am not a "don't fire people in case it gets worse" person. 

[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

11 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Let’s do a little hypothetical. If, over the next 5 years, the Bills do EXACTLY what they did over the last 5 will you be satisfied? Basically, if they win the division and a playoff game or 2 each year will you deem that success? At the end of that time they’ll have a 35 or 36-year-old Josh Allen, 5 more AFCE titles, 60 more wins and 2 AFC Championship appearances. Is that good enough for you? 

 

Of course it isn't. Shouldn't be good enough for anyone. It does slightly come back to "why has it not been better?" though. I don't think that answer is quite as simple as others do - but that's the modern sports landscape - coaches get over blamed for everything. Sunday felt like an end of days for this regime. If the rest of the season looks like that there will be a change I think, as much as I suspect Pegula is instinctively cautious to move on. 

[Joe B article - Elijah Moore, Curtis Samuel, Gabe Davis]

2 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

 

That is interesting on Moore, but he isn't a great route runner and never has been. Maybe he was running a ton of go routes I'm not sure, because he does have plenty of speed. It's the nuances he lacks. 

[Joe B article - Elijah Moore, Curtis Samuel, Gabe Davis]

42 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Is it just a coincidence that multiple guys who used to be able to get open (Diggs, Knox, Shakir, Samuel, Moore, etc.) under other OCs happen to struggle mightily with Joe Brady in that role?

 

Shakir has only really got open under this OC, Samuel likewise - his best success was under Joe Brady in Carolina. Moore has never been great at route running and getting open. That leaves you with Knox who they are just using a lot less in the pass game than 2 or 3 years ago and Diggs who did struggle back end of 2023, that's fair. I don't think he was fully healthy personally. 

[Joe B article - Elijah Moore, Curtis Samuel, Gabe Davis]

1 minute ago, dorquemada said:

 

meh.  I see jet sweeps and bubble screens as the main non-Cook vehicles in this offense, particularly at critical times.  

 

That is necessity because the downfield plays aren't working. They are trying to find ways to get the ball in the hands of their smaller shifty playmakers - Samuel, Moore, Shakir in space with a chance for YAC because they can't get them open down the field. 

[Joe B article - Elijah Moore, Curtis Samuel, Gabe Davis]

9 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

We could have prime Tyreek Hill and if the Offensive scheme eschews the forward pass it wouldn't matter

 

Brady's got to go.

 

But it doesn't. There are deep routes, there are patterns and plays designed to go down the field. Guys are not getting open, Josh is being a bit tentative in attacking tight windows and it is resulting in a lot of check downs on plays designed to go downfield. Brady's offense in Carolina attacked down the field plenty. They were 9th in the NFL in explosive pass rate in 2020 with Teddy Two Gloves at Quarterback. The plays are there in the design. They are not being made primarily because the receivers can't get open. 

[Bills Utter Collapse-- Jim Kubiak BN]

4 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Spot on.  The majority of fans do not want to, and will not accept,this.  Its right there obvious as hell,but many won't see it.

 

 

 

I don't know that I am there right now, but I do know that when Josh has played his best football it has generally coincided with a settled personal life and the period he played his worst football (back end of 2022 and into early 2023) we know his personal life was in a bit of turmoil. So I am open to the possibility that there is something distracting him. 

 

I think the reason is Josh plays best when he is loose, uncluttered, and happy. When he gets tight he isn't the same guy. 

[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Sober Kiffin is a much more mature guy. He’s still a sarcastic jackass but he’s a different dude. He has developed into a really good leader and a winner. The Joey Freshwater days are over. Kiffin is one of the best football coaches in the world IMO. I suspect he goes to Florida but would love him paired with Josh. That’s  the best path to a Super Bowl IMO.

 

I'm afraid I disagree with basically all of this. 

[Bills Utter Collapse-- Jim Kubiak BN]

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

He's got to be frustrated. Players are human, and if he knows what we know, that this leadership can't bring this team over the hump, it's hard to stay motivated day in and day out when you know the coaching staff and general manager can't get you to the promised land. I don't think he has gone hollywood or anything. I think he knows that we won't get there and it's showing with his play and mentality. Totally me reading into it, but to me that is a look of a man who knows the can't win a super bowl with this regime. 

 

He is frustrated but listen to his pressers. A lot of that is frustration with himself. After 3 games where he didn't play well he has an outstanding performance against KC and then right back to this. He isn't playing terrible football overall but he can't find that consistency he had last year and while I am sure he is frustrated at what is around him - especially at receiver - he is frustrated with himself too. I think that is obvious.

3 minutes ago, Casey D said:

But that take is just wrong if you look at the All-22.  Everyone wants to blame the receivers-- and that is now gospel that they suck-- but they are hardly all of the problem.  Josh had plays with easy throws to open guys for first downs--looking right at them-- and did not make the throw.  Inexplicable.

 

Yea Josh knows some of this is on him. And he wants to be better. He just can't find his level at the moment with any consistency and that is eating at him.

[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not asking him to marry my daughter. He’s a good football coach, great offensive mind with an edge. This team has no swagger anymore. Watching Josh sit at the end of the bench hanging his head isn’t working for me. I want them to attack. Play with that edge that’s missing. Kiffin will do that.
 

Lol, people are seriously advocating for Jon Gruden but not open to Lane Kiffin?!? 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣 That’s not directed at you specifically. That’s more directed at this group in general. Jon Gruden is a terrible football coach.

 

I'm not open to either of them. Lane Kiffin would be a return to Rex IMO. A thoroughly dislikeable jackass who would not work hard enough to be an NFL Head Coach because he thinks he knows it all anyway. And the last time Gruden was good I was a young man. Hard NO to both. 

[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

4 minutes ago, Gregg said:

The Bills have missed on too many draft picks in the early rounds during Beane's time here. If McDermott and Beane are coming back (Spoiler alert - THEY ARE) then Beane should look to improve the scouting department. They deserve some of the blame here as well as far as striking out in the early rounds of the draft. Overall, this roster isn't all that great and the scouts own some of the blame for that.

 

Actually the Bills scouts are pretty good. That is why they perform so well on day 3 of the draft - which is the scouts day. Day 1 and 2 are on the senior personnel team - Beane, Gaine, Gray primarily. 

[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Kubiak is my first choice by far but Saleh with McDaniel at OC intrigues me. Both San Fran guys so the connection is easy to make. Saleh always had his defense performing at a top tier level and it wasn't his choice to bring the circus to town in New Jersey.

 

That combination is intriguing, but make no mistake that is a Head Coach downgrade that you are hoping outperforms what we have by a bit of freshness of voice and potentially an upgrade at OC. While I agree Saleh wasn't responsible for bringing the entire circus to town in NYC he definitely didn't help himself with his press interactions. 

 

7 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

 

Saleh would also be one of the few guys where I don't think we have to totally rebuild on defense. That combination would be nasty. 

 

This is a good point. Fundamentally it's the same defense. 

16 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

For Rex, Terry was a brand new owner and relied on Russ and Doug, and while Whaley needed to be convinced he ultimately came around on Rex.

 

After that, Terry used an outside consulting firm and they are the ones who helped him identify McDermott. Whaley was barely involved as he was on the hot seat and on his way out as well.

 

So the only HC that Terry has hired himself has been McD.

 

I'll also point out that in Novemeber of 2016, no one in Bills Country was talking about Sean McDermott or likely even knew his name. So when you see folks present the "well give me the name of who is going to be better" argument, it doesnt really stand and it doesnt really matter. We all knew a change was needed, just like we all know a change is needed now. The pros will figure it out. Or not.

 

 

Yea McDermott was hired by Terry, not Whaley. 

 

[Is This McD's Worst Loss?]

I think it's his worst regular season loss since he decided to start Nathan Peterman in the middle of a playoff chase in 2017. 

[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

If I was moving on (I'm not there yet but open to the idea that I might be in January) then for coach Klint Kubiak and I have no idea on GM. I'd honestly hire the coach and let them pick their GM. When I look across the NFL the last 15 years that model has worked a lot:

 

Carroll chose Schneider; Reid chose Dorsey and then Veach; Shanahan chose Lynch; McDermott chose Beane.

 

I think synergy in that relationship really matters and unless you have an elite GM in situ where you make the coach the interchangeable part I'd start with the coach then go from there.

[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s right that was Modrak (college) and Guy (pro). They were with Levy. I don’t remember if there was crossover. Either way, neither Levy nor Brandon made football decisions. Those other 2 did. 

Yeah, I’d suspect that they do. They have a nice foundation to work with. 

 

Worth saying on Beane I suspect (though don't know) he leans more on McDermott now than he ever did when Schoen was here. I know there are people convinced McDermott ran every draft like a puppet master but that simply isn't true. He wasn't even the 2nd most important person in the room when the Beane - Schoen axis was together. Now he most likely is. Because from what I am told Beane is just like that, relationships are big for him.

[Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Likely both. Beane ultimately had the final decision but Schoen was the guy that basically led scouting. He likely played a leading role in selecting Josh (as he just did with Dart). At least that’s how I understand the relationship. Perhaps @GunnerBill or someone more familiar can correct me if I’m wrong.

 

That’s not all that uncommon. An extreme example is when Russ Brandon was the “GM.” He didn’t make any football decisions. That I know for a fact. He ultimately signed off on everything as the de facto owner but he wasn’t evaluating talent and overruling the guys in place (Modrak and Whaley if memory serves).

 

As I understand it Beane made the decisions and the selections (and still does) but he trusted Joe Schoen more than any human being on the planet when it came to talent evaluation. So it is reasonable to think that he had a big influence in all the draft picks while he was here. I have been told by people in the room that he sort of lacks that now. While he has good relationships with Gaine and Gray and I'm sure he "trusts" them. It isn't like the Beane - Schoen relationship. They were almost brother like.

 

On the Brandon point though Whaley wasn't here when he was GM. Nix recruited Whaley.

[Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

But he is terrible at jump balls right now, which was a strength of his in college. That's the biggest issue. Essentially what he did at the college level very well has not translated almost AT ALL to the NFL level.  YAC actually has probably been his best asset and we have seen that in multiple situations.

 

It really wasn't. I know that was the narrative. It wasn't what the tape showed.

[Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For as great as they did in the 2018 draft, the botched the 2019 draft as badly.

 

1. Ed Oliver over Justin Simmons, Dexter Lawrence, or even Brian Burns

2. Cody Ford over Metcalf or AJ Brown

3. Singletary over Terry McLaurin

 

What could have been...

 

Think you mean Jeffrey Simmons. He fell because of red flags both health and off field. If he'd been clean he was a top 10 player. Burns was the guy I wanted if it wasn't Ed, I think that would have been a good pick. That said Ed has still been a really good player for the Bills. 

 

[Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field]

19 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

True.  So you take the better football player, the one with the best chance of helping, that was/is McConkey.    

 

Or you go up for one of the guys that really solves your problem - BTJ for example.

[Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field]

11 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

But, but, but, contested catches. 

 

They wasted a premium pick on a guy who's forte is a low probability play that you don't want to rely on.  Who picks a player for contested catch skills when you need to replace Diggs?  

 

I am sure the excuse could be they have a slot guy in Shakir.  McConky can be used multiple ways and so can Shakir.  

 

McConky is faster, quicker, better feet, better hands, smarter, better routes, a dedicated football player, and he gets open all the time ... 

 

But McConkey doesn't solve this team's biggest issue which is they don't threaten deep and outside and it means teams can compress the field against us both vertically and horizontally. And look I'd have picked him before Coleman, because Coleman doesn't do any of those things either and McConkey is just a better football player. And anyone who tried to argue that Coleman was a contested catch specialist hadn't watched enough of him in college. He wasn't that for Florida State he hasn't been that in the league. He is pretty average in that facet. The thing Keon does best is run after the catch ball in hand. It is not coincidence that when the Bills were getting some production from him in the middle of his rookie year pre injury that is how he was being used in the main. 

 

Coleman was just a bad pick. A slow, big slot, who is a career non-separator and average at the catch point. I said it at the time and I stick by every word.

[$55m to run 13]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Downs was a Colt draft pick.

 

Since 2018:

 

Colts Round 1 WR: 0

Colts Round 1 TE: 1

Colts Round 2/3 WR: 5

Colts Round 2/3 TE: 1

 

Bills Round 1 WR: 0

Bills Round 1 TE: 1

Bills Round 2/3 WR: 1

Bills Round 2/3 TE: 1

 

 

The Colts are actually the perfect example of if you don't want to spend a first on receivers you have to keep throwing day 2 picks at them. It was a successful model for the Steelers for years too. 

 

Since Beane has been GM here no team in the entire NFL has drafted fewer WRs in the first two days of the NFL draft. Just one. Keon Coleman (and that one is a bust). 32/32. And now we have the worst receiving corps in the league. Is it any wonder???

[$55m to run 13]

6 hours ago, Brand J said:

 

If Josh was throwing to Tyler Warren, Alec Pierce, Josh Downs, and Michael Pittman Jr, with Joe Brady calling plays, it’d be much of the same.

 

No. It really wouldn't. The Bills receivers are the worst in the NFL. There are downfield shots called in this offense. Josh keeps coming off them and going underneath because there is nobody open. Give Brady the Colts weapons this offense looks very different. 

[So is Landon Jackson done for the year?]

7 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

First Carter should be Walker and you ommited AJE but yeah this really sucks.

 

We had a chance to have best DL in years. Oh well. The room for injuries is absolutely none now.

 

We need to be lucky with Bosa come playoff time. Hopefully Sanders gets back at some point.

 

 

 

Thanks. Yep. Make both those corrections.

[Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field]

He sucks. This pick is a total bust. He is done.

[So is Landon Jackson done for the year?]

Yep. 

 

We are down to Groot, Solomon, Ogunjobi and Walker from our 12 man strong defensive line group coming into the year who are still fully healthy. 

 

Oliver, Hoecht, Jackson, Carter all on IR done for the year;

 

Sanders on IR return tbc;

 

AJE out at least short term; Bosa wearing a club on his hand and Jones heavy strapping on a hammy.