GunnerBill
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Posts posted by GunnerBill
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22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:
correct
bad offense, poor/untested OCs, bad QB rooms that he had to fill entirely starting as a rookie
he was 100% set up to fail
This shouldn't be at all controversial. By the GM's own admission they did a "horrible job" putting things around Allen in 2018.
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9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
I just couldn't disagree more with this. Daboll was a nobody that had spent his career as the OC for bottom ranked offenses. Allen's pass catchers were Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Andre Holmes, and Charles Clay. His starting OL was 2nd year Dion Dawkins, Vlad Ducasse, Russell Bodine, John Miller, and Jordan Mills. A lot of young QBs have a solid veteran in the room to help them learn - Allen had Nathan Peterman. We only retroactively say that the Bills set Allen up for success because he ended up a success. The reality is he had as bad a supporting cast as you could possibly formulate.
Allen has a lot of superpowers that make him an elite QB. One that probably doesn't get enough credit nationally is his ability to confront his flaws and fix them ridiculously fast. Allen has had plenty of bad games throughout his career but he has very very rarely had two in a row. He completely rebuilt his mechanics from the ground up and recently changed his entire play style to fit a new scheme and philosophy. I credit McDermott and Beane for turning the culture around here but I don't credit them for Allen's ascension. His own mental and physical abilities made him who he is today.
I largely agree with this but where I do give Brian Daboll (and to be fair McDermott to an extent) some credit is they let Josh Allen fail without ever getting gun shy and I do think that was part of his development. The absolute worst thing you could with young Josh Allen was take the ball out of his hands (because if he got out of rhythm the bad habits crept back into his throwing motion) and Daboll and McDermott definitively did not do it. I'm not saying but for that Josh Allen would of been a failure, or anything of the sort, but can I imagine other coaches who would have turned him into a Shanny style game manager, heavy play action pass - don't worry about full scale reads, dial it all back? Yep, I can and I think it would have taken longer for Josh to reach full elite.
You can be more balanced or even run heavy with Josh now, and it's fine. He can play literally any type of game you want him to play. But in 2019, 2020, 2021 not sure that was true.
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17 minutes ago, Einstein said:
I watched both Bears games, and aside from not telling his kicker to kick the ball out of bounds (which he should have done), the losses were certainly not on Ben Johnson.
1) Caleb Williams just isnt that good yet (if he ever will be).
2) The Bears roster is rough at several positions.
So you speaking of the nice situation he had in Detroit is ironic, because if we are having this conversation in the context of what he could have done in Buffalo, it would be wise to mention that he would have had an equally rich situation in Buffalo as he did in Detroit, thanks to Josh Allen (who is worth about 5x what Goff is) and James Cook.
That being said, I never wanted McDermott fired ,so its a moot point. But your argument doesnt hold water.The thing that I think is on Ben Johnson is the mess on defense. Dennis Allen was his pick and one area they definitely do have talent in is the defensive backfield. Though you'd be forgiven for not thinking so at the moment. That DC hire for an offensive minded first time Head Coach is a really important one. And so far it looks questionable.
But I agree I don't think the results per se are on him at this point. Caleb actually looks really good when is on script, but as soon as the script is done the skittishness and the lack of field vision seems to return. That suggests to me that the bits Johnson can give him as a paint by numbers are working. It's after that it is problematic. And then no doubt that roster still has some big holes and that is on Poles. I said all draft season that they might have upgraded the IOL but you can't keep trotting Braxton Jones out as your starting left tackle and telling me you are serious about winning. He is the worst regular vet starting LT in football.
But the off-field questions are the more concerning piece. His media management has to get better or else he will dig his own grave very quickly and other have alluded to personality concerns in his man management of players. I haven't heard that myself but if it is true that is a concern too.
17 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:31 other teams would be on the phone to hire McDermott immediately if he was let go.
Maybe not 31.... but probably 24 or 25 would. He would be the fastest re-hire since, ironically, his mentor Andy Reid was let go by the Eagles after the 2012 season and he basically too a flight straight to Kansas City and took the job.
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51 minutes ago, corta765 said:
Jared Goff has proven without good coaching and a solid cast of playmakers he cannot do it on his own which I think is why he always has an asterisk with how good he truly is or isn't given the truly best QBs can make it work in any circumstance. I will give him credit he has improved substantially from LA which I get why McVay traded him and with good coaching/playmakers he is a legit top QB. But like you said the moment he has pressure he is toast and that has forever been his Achilles heal. Also while I am admittedly not a Goff fan I do agree the narratives spun at the trade were also a bit overboard that he was trash etc.. He has proven given him a line with decent weapons and he can do a lot of things. The narrative on QBs these days is nuts and the patience is so thin. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Tua in a new spot with a decent line and coach got it going similar to 22/23, his issue and forever his issue is health.
I don't even think he particularly needs weapons. He needs protection. That's absolutely your A1 priority if your QB is Jared Goff. Spend your dollars up front. He got a combined 1,000 yards from Josh Reynolds and Kalif Raymond two years ago. Goff is a good Quarterback. He is just way below average in terms of mobility at the position for the modern day.
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11 hours ago, T.E. said:
What is it with the people on this board constantly trying to jinx the team? It's absolutely bizarre. There's 2-3 threads like this a week.
Luckily there is no such thing as a jinx and nothing we say on this board makes the blindest bit of difference.
I still think it's early to be thinking about which musical act would play before an AFCCG but the universe is not going to punish us if we do.
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I didn't spot it but would have cringed if I had. I also didn't like the run inside the 5 where he could get out near sideline and while he does slow up enough to avoid a major hit he still gets a bump from the defender for the sake of an extra yard. If that's the AFCCG - sure, take bump. It's week 2 at the Jets up big, just get out of bounds untouched.
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18 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
Wildcard is a tougher road to get in and much tougher path once you’re in. And fighting for a division title/wildcard spot down the stretch takes a lot out of your team I think that gets overlooked a bit. Look at what’s going on already mahomes is taking an obscene amount of hits. They almost always have a bye and/ or just coast down the stretch but now they’ll pretty likely be playing playoff-style football for an extra month with no bye the first round of the playoffs
I think 7 teams have won the Super Bowl as a wildcard in like 45+ years and two involving tom Brady were pretty much flukes 😂 that Bucs team was disgustingly stacked but it took Brady a bit of time to adjust to his new team so they probably should’ve been a division winner and I still have no flippin idea how the giants beat the pats in that 08 Super Bowl lol.
the big thing for me and I’ve heard mahomes say it himself…he saves a lot of these big scrambling plays for the playoffs typically but this year he’s goin all out early to carry the offense and it’s still been a struggle so farWhile that wildcard stat is interesting I think it is correlation rather than causation. The 5th to 7th best teams in a conference rarely go on to win the Superbowl not specifically because it is a tougher road but, IMO, because they are rarely better than the top 4 teams in the conference (I know there might be some years going back where the seeding was different but you take the point).
I think that is likely the same for the Chiefs this year. If they limp in as a wildcard it probably means they are fundamentally flawed compared to some of the other teams.
11 minutes ago, ganesh said:As long as the Chiefs have Mahomes at Center and Reid calling plays, they are going to be in the ball game and win many of them...They were quite close to win those two games. I simply don't see the Chiefs falling apart and being behind by 4 games when they come to Orchard Park.
The Bills D has not shown that they can stop Lamar or Mahomes consistently in the playoffs. Until that happens, the crown remains with the Chiefs.
I mean they are 2-0 against Lamar in the playoffs and while the Ravens had plenty of offense last time, the first time the Bills shut them down. I get it that's 5 years ago, different personnel etc.
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12 hours ago, corta765 said:
I reallllyy wish people took the time to actual research things out. When the Lions got Goff he was a cast off and the trade was considered more for the picks media wise for the Lions then Goff himself. The Lions first half of the time with Goff/Ben were trash on offense, but the back half of 2021 they found their form which built into 2022 and continued big time into 23/24. To act like Johnson had nothing to do with it when literally there are legions of articles that said Goff was toast etc.. is hilarious and also reeks of today's what have you done for me now culture.
I am certainly not saying Johnson had nothing to do with what happened in Detroit and he actually wasn't OC during those struggles early on, our old mate Anthony Lynn was. Then Lynn was fired and Campbell called plays himself for a bit and steadied the ship before he handed over the reigns to Johnson. The thing I always admired about him as a play caller was how well he fitted his schem to his players. The first two years their passing game was incredibly simple, might even say limited. Their complexity was in the run game. Then as Jameson Williams broke out last year and gave them a viable running mate for St Brown and opened up the boundary to attack he added layers to the offense to maximise performance.
The bit I push back slightly on (and I did at the time) was the idea of Goff as damaged goods. I never bought it then and I have never bought it since. Goff was not made by Sean McVay. He wasn't rescued by Ben Johnson either. Jared Goff is a good quarterback. He is one of the most accurate passers in football and throws with great touch and feel. The key to maximising Jared Goff is and always has been protection in front of him. By modern NFL QB standards he is a statue if pass rushers penetrate he is a stitting duck, a sack waiting to happen. But if he is protected he is and always has been a top 10 Quarterback. Bad with the disaster line his rookie year. In come Whitworth, Sullivan and others and suddenly Jared Goff looks really good. Then in 2020 Sullivan retires, Whit gets hurt and there is turmoil elsewhere on the line and suddenly Goff's form drops off and the Rams trade him. Gets to Detroit the line is a bit funky cos of injuries and Sewell being a rookie early and he doesn't look great but as soon as the line is sorted he immediately looks better. That is the truth to the Jared Goff story. It is just people like to spin the coach dependent narrative.
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1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:
I think by far the biggest issue with Dorsey's offence was it was way too complicated and doesn't have much to do with putting it Josh's hands.
I would say 1, 2 and 4 are more like Brian Dabolls , which I still think is peak Bills offence in the McDermott era. (2020 regular season and 2021 playoffs they were literally unstoppable)
And yet the results Brady has had with less talent are comparable.
I was a Daboll fan too, less so Dorsey. But if Daboll had this roster his offense wouldn't work. We don't have the pieces.
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33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
Its 2 games in - way too early to make any proclamations on him. But here are some things I will say -- More often than not, the "hot coordinator" isn't the savior people think they are in their first HC gig. Fans get obsessed with someone because they had a great offense/defense with great talent and then just think they will work magic when they take over a much lesser roster as a first time HC. Sure it can happen, but it mostly doesn't. Look at what the Lions did this weekend, they didn't need Ben Johnson to do it.
But - its also not fair to a first time HC to condemn their new tenure after 2 games either, just like it would be silly to crown them if they over achieve early (look at Daboll in NY).
Now - generalizations aside, one thing that is standing out in the new Ben Johnson era is he is not coming off well. That is not usually a good sign of things to come if their are rumblings this early about things like how he is in the locker room and how he comes across in the media. Sometimes these guys had it so easy with top end talent they come in with inflated Egos, arrogance, and stubborness that will hurt and hamper their ability to succeeed, unite the team, get the most out of his coaches and players, etc. Quite honestly, I think that is a major factor in what has become the Giants under Daboll. Their success will hinge on the humbling of them through struggles and how they respond.
Then there are guys like McDaniel in Miami who just don't have that leadership quality, command of a franchise personality, etc and honestly are probably never going to succeed as a HC IMHO, same with a guy like McDaniels.
Its too early to know where Ben Johnson will fall, but its why guys like McDermott exceeded expectations and found immediate success out the gate and others don't. McD has a Team General like leadership quality to him that commands respect and has the guys united and getting the most of them. He cares about his coaches, plaers, etc and listens to them and is genuine which makes him a players coach while still commanding the same discipline he expects. He has always had that, its natural for him, its why his early success started his first season when we were supposed to be a bottom feeder. He came in humble, but in command. When guys come in arrogant without that aura that leads and commands respect, its often a rough go of it.
We will see how it goes for Ben, its early, but it has signs that I would say are in the red flag category.
Yea the single most important ability a head coach needs is leadership. It matters more than Xs and Os.
I think his media management is a red flag. But I haven't read / heard the locker room stuff. If that is bad too I think his chabces of being a success reduce significantly. No matter how good of a play caller her is.
It is too early to say of course. And I think Poles and Caleb are partly responsible for the slow start in different ways. But as I said yesterday holding the team together if this season goes sideways will be a significant test for him.
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19 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:
Yep for sure- So when I mean aggressive it's a combination of a few things:
1. Pass to run ratio. (Of course more passing would = more aggressive)
2. More downfield shots- I am not saying there weren't any designed downfield shots, but they definitely played the first half in an 8 yard box for the most part. It's also hard to tell if the receivers are running deep to space the field , or if they are actually the designed first read.
3. More throws/play action on 2nd and short
4. To simplify probably the most, just putting the game in Josh's hands and let Josh be Josh . (Like the 4th quarter)
My pushback is 1, 2 & 4 sound like the Dorsey offense. And that wasn't aggressive. It was just dumb.
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6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:
Read my quote again. "The last time the Bills opened up an offensive game script". meaning going into the game aggressive without game script dictating the play calls.
Game script and being down 15, of course made the bills throw it all over the yard against the ravens
Can you clarify what you mean by aggressive? Do you mean throwing lots? Or do you mean throwing down the field? Or do you mean attack a defence's weak spots?
Cos I think the Bills are balanced run to pass in order to put the ball in the hands of their most explosive skill player, I think they have called deep shots and they are not there because guys can't get open deep and I think they do a pretty good job going after weaknesses. I don't see any of that as not being aggressive.
Have had a couple of conservative play calls - sure. The 3rd down after the alert we just talked about they rushed to the line and tried a run which was odd, and the 3rd down on the first drive of the second half the other day when they ran and kicked a FG was unnecessarily conservative to my eye. But I think they are individual play calls rather than something that signifies an overall conservative offense.
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1 minute ago, HappyDays said:
Andy Reid has been scheming guys open, Mahomes just isn't hitting on schedule throws at the clip he's capable of. I've seen him overthrow a bunch of wide open WRs downfield in the first two games. If any improvement is coming, his play is where it it will come from. The run game I think they are just sunk. It's all JAG RBs and the IOL has taken a step back.
On defense Spags has definitely been floundering a bit. It kind of reminds me of McDermott when he was our acting DC in 2023, where we just kept blitzing over and over again because we had no other answers and opposing offenses were killing us for it. Spags knows his base front 4 can't get pressure and his back end can't hold up. So he is resorting to the same tactic and equally getting killed for it. The offense can get significantly better, at least the passing offense. The defense however I'm not really sure that it can.
Honestly, the scheming on offense has not been great. I thought it was poor Sunday night. Thornton has been getting some separation deep but just by running fast in a straight line. Looks a lot to me like defences (and tbf Chargers and Eagles have seen plenty of them) know what is coming and have generally had the chain movers smothered.
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2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
No they will make the playoffs. Their coaching staff is too good and Mahomes will bounce back especially when he has his #1 WR back. I just don't buy this narrative that starting 0-2 doesn't matter because something something the Patriots. They have some pretty fundamental issues on both sides of the ball. The whole right side of the OL is a mess. They can't run the ball. They have no difference making skill players. Their secondary is McDuffie and a bunch of JAGs. Their front 4 is middling. It is not just a case of sloppy play from a bored team where you can see an obvious path for improvement. Those fundamental issues are going to be there all year.
If the Chiefs make it to the Super Bowl out of the AFC, that is a massive massive failure on the part of Buffalo and Baltimore. Both teams, especially us, have had their opportunities to block the dynasty but have failed to make the plays to close out those games. KC has also out-coached both teams in those games. This year I am very confident that both rosters and both QBs are better than their counterparts in KC. It seems likely that KC will end up in a divisional dogfight until the end of the season which means they won't be able to rest anybody and may enter the playoffs as a wildcard. I'm not counting them out but I'm also not going to pretend they have some magical aura around them that means these issues don't matter.
I think they will make the playoffs too. But I think there are issue and I think they extend to coaching. Especially on the offensive side where their guys just do not look well coached or coordinated right now. The offense is positively Dorseyish.
1 minute ago, FireChans said:Is anyone gonna feel good if the Chiefs limp in as a 7th seed coming to Buffalo in the WC round?
If they limp in? Yea. I'll feel pretty good. As they are currently constituted they would not beat the Bills. Now if they suddenly get healthy (especially on offense) and run the 2nd half of the table and get in as a WC.... then sure, I'd be a little nervous.
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Just now, BillsFan130 said:
I think pretty objectively, it was a very conservative game plan as the bills were definitely trying to establish clock control.
I am not saying all of it is Joe Brady's fault- Like on the 3rd and 6 screen to Kincaid, it looked like Josh definitely called an audible into that.The 2nd and 1 I've seen a few times myself . I'm pretty convinced that Josh checked to running to the left side, instead of running to the right. (I def could be wrong)
I disagree. I don't think it was a conservative plan. I think it felt conservative because when they more aggressive plays were called Josh checked down. He was right to check down. Nobody was open deep.
On the audible on 2nd and the reason I think it was a pass is because he alerts and then he points behind his back to Cook and "Omahas." Could that all be part of one call? Sure. But I'd need evidence that he has double signalled that way on other alerts. I think he alerted from a pass to a run and then flipped the run. Don't know for certain but that is my rationale.
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1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:
Knox was also legit being interfered with on the final drop, although it was still catchable.
Yep defender was there early and already hanging on his back before the ball arrived, but agree still catchable. I said that in the GDT.
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9 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:
Overall I think Joe Brady is good. But I am a bit concerned that his "tight to the chest" play calling will hurt them in a big game. (Kind of like the ravens game in the 1st half in week 1)
He called downfield shots in that first half against the Ravens. They weren't there. Josh came off two and checked down and I still think he checked out of a pass on the 2nd and 1. That's part of the point.... I think what is driving the conservative narrative is the fact that the lack of separation means we don't actually go deep even when there are deeper shots called.
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35 minutes ago, FireChans said:
That was a slap in the face for the most successful Giants QB ever.
if McAdoo didn’t clear that with Mara, he was an idiot.
McAdoo (allegedly without ownership clearing) told Manning on the Monday "you are starting but at some point I will go to Geno" and Eli came in the next morning and said "that's not fair to Geno - if you want him to play let him play, I'd rather not start and then come out."
When word got back to Mara he was fuming. McAdoo and the GM were fired right after the game.
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8 hours ago, Beck Water said:
The 0-2 Giants. Whose coach Brian Daboll must have naughty pictures of Mara or something, given how the G-men changed coaches every 2 years from 2016 to 2022, including McAdoo who took them to a better record (11-5) and a playoff appearance his first year.
McAdoo got fired as much for his contention that Eli was done and decision to bench him as anything else. Mara was very close to Eli and took badly to it. Turns out McAdoo wasn't a million miles off.
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4 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:
But I can guarantee you that 100% of fanbases feel that their OCs are extremely frustrating at times, including 49ers, Rams and Chiefs fans, and that you would feel the same with any coordinator.
To this point there is a thread on Chiefs Plant at the moment called "Fire Matt Nagy into the Sun" followed by a debate as to where the blame lies between Nagy, Reid and Veach for their offensive woes.
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I am away for work this week and in a hotel with not much to do before my diplomatic meetings this afternoon I watched the all22 from Sunday.
All three tight ends blocked well, Kincaid has definitely improved his run blocking technique which is encouraging although he can still doesn't sustain or finish blocks as well as the other two and he had a rough pass blocking snap though a tough assignment against I think McDonald. Hawes blocked nicely in both the pass and run game and Knox was a beast in this game as a run blocker. Trust me he more than made up for not coming down with a couple of makeable catches with his performance as a blocker.
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25 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:
GB, agreed to a point. We may not have a Justin Jefferson, but overall Coleman has delivered, Palmer is growing with each week synergy with Josh, Moore has made small contributions, Shakir is well Shakir, and Cook as you mention GB is one of the most dynamic RB’s this team has seen since Thurmon. (I didn’t add McCoy as we caught him later in his career).The receivers we have are legit NFL players (maybe Shavers still a tbc - but Keon, Palmer, Shakir, Moore, Samuel and the two main pass catching tight ends) but none of them are (at least yet) difference makers and so we still have snaps when we are forced into pure dropback where nobody can get open downfield unless Josh gets out and extends the play. The Bills are finding ways to coach and scheme around that and to mask it to a large extent - but I do still worry at some point it becomes a limitation.
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3 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:
I think any team that scores 71 pts. In two games warrants no criticisms whatsoever. The rushing game is a cat and mouse situations and opens up passing opportunities as they can’t assume well through most of the game. Some people just find it boring as they want Josh tossing it all over the field. I’m never going to complain at an avg. of 35.5 pts. Per game. I’m predicting we won’t be slowing down anytime soon with half of the Fish’ O Line on IR. The Fish are a dumpster fire.I don't think we have the receiving talent to have Josh tossing it all over the field. I suppose that goes to the heart of the debate. Any limitations that exist in this offense are less about the scheme and the playcalling to my eye than they are about the skill position talent.
It's also why despite generally being against paying running backs I saw the value in retaining Cook. He is by far our most explosive skill position player. I wish that weren't the case, but given that it is I think it's prudent to retain that.
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4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:
Wanna see some deep shots to WRs
There were some called week 1 (less so this week) and Josh had to come off them because nobody was open and go underneath.
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Ben Johnson?? Ben Johnson?? LOL
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
2018 was a transitional year. The Bills middled 2017. They didn't go all in on a rebuild, they didn't go all in on winning. It worked out and McDermott coached his ass off that year.
It was an odd and risky way to do it. But McDermott clearly wanted his buddy in situ as GM before he tied himself to a Quarterback.
By 2019 they had to win and they did.
He is as good as Stafford, right now. Peak Matt Stafford was a tier above peak Jared Goff. I know he had a good game Sunday, but Stafford isn't still that guy.