2003Contenders
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I do not put a lot of faith in PFF, but is undeniable that Edmunds' absence was greatly felt in the 2nd half.
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37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
No he has not. The fact you said that tells me you don't know anything about football or you are too rooted in your biased opinion to remain objective.
So you are saying Josh had a bad first half against the Vikings? Are you serious? Why because Devin got two of the TD's instead of Allen throwing them?
What a ridiculous and ill informed comment. 2 of his 3 mistakes were the fumble at end of game and pick in OT. But keep saying the ignorant statement he has been bad for 11 straight quarters. Man this board is ridiculous.
And I would even make the contrarian point that, despite all the struggles the last couple of games, Josh has actually been clutch too.
Against the Jets, he was on point on that final drive -- throwing a 70-yard pass on a dime to Davis AFTER the injury to the elbow. Sandwiched between the two bad plays you referenced on Sunday was the great drive with 40 seconds left to get the Bills into scoring range to force OT. In fact, if the defender does not make a calculated move to interfere with Davis on the last play before the kick, that is likely a walk-off TD to end regulation. Even in overtime, Josh was marching down the field using both his arm and legs. The next-to-last pass should have been the game winning TD to Knox. Still not excusing the ill-advised game ending INT, because regardless of whose fault it was, that was a pass that should never have been thrown.
I just find it interesting that, aside from a few plays, Josh played an excellent game against the Vikings. (Again, not arguing that those few bad plays weren't killers.) Meanwhile, we have Von Miller who was invisible most of the game -- and allowed Cousins to have plenty of time and a clean pocket to throw the ball downfield against our depleted secondary time and time again. But Miller does make 1 or 2 big plays, and that is all anyone remembers.
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Doesn't it always seem like when we play the Browns it is in blizzard-like conditions?
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The 2nd down play is bizarre too. Did someone miss the play call? When I watched the play live, I assumed it was a screen play to the left that the defense had sniffed out and that Josh intentionally tossed the ball into the turf. Upon 2nd review, the RB goes to the RIGHT and blocks. To the left there is nothing but offensive linemen. (I do not recall an announcement that a tackle declared as an eligible receiver). The only skill position player in the vicinity is Knox, who also appears to be blocking and not looking for the ball. Was Knox supposed to chip and then go out for the pass?
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I think a crash course in Risk Management would do Josh (and the coaching staff) some good. LOL
Josh is a wild stallion, and you do not want to take his swagger away from him -- but the wildness needs to be placed in check, and he needs to learn to better tread that fine line between being a gunslinger and being reckless. I mean, there is a time to play "Hero Ball" -- when the chips are down and a big play is a MUST. 2nd down, in sure tying-FG-range with plenty of time on the clock was not such a time.
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1 hour ago, Einstein said:
That was Duke Johnson and he had a defender on him and closing fast. It would have probably been a bang-bang play at the first down marker, or Duke would have had to make him miss.
He may have even been hit so hard that he doesn’t catch the ball.
Exactly right. I honestly believe the screen to Duke was the initial design, but Josh saw that the defense had sniffed it out and instead headed to his right. The Vikings were all over the screen the whole game.
1 hour ago, Einstein said:Context matters though.
I am usually pro-go-for-it.
But in the context of the situation, where you have a QB struggling, and you have a chance to go up 2 touchdowns, I think you take the field goal considering the context of this particular situation.
But up until that point in the game, Josh had NOT been struggling. In fact, he had been in a rhythm on that very drive.
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Thanks for this Virgil. This is very therapeutic -- and I appreciate your not going the gloom and doom route.
It really is a shame how this ended. Through 3-and-half quarters Josh played a very good game. Made some clutch plays with his arm and legs. At one point, he had like 10 straight completions. He was also careful with the ball multiple times throwing it away rather than forcing screens that the defense sniffed out. BTW, those screens need to be set up better; I think the original play-call on the ill-fated 4th down play was a screen that was also sniffed out, which led Josh to scramble to his right and force the desperation pass. Still, everyone will remember that INT (which was proceeded on the very same drive by some very clutch 3rd-and-long throws/catches), the fumble in the endzone and the INT in overtime. And none of those things had to happen.
I am not sure who is to blame for so much of the questionable play-calling (especially in the 2nd half). Was it Dorsey -- or did Josh check out of plays? For all the talk about these gut wrenching plays -- the thing that I have not seen anyone talk about, which definitely was ALL on the coaching staff, was the next-to-last offensive series in regulation.
Recall that after the endzone TD, the Vikings had just scored a TD -- and missed the ensuing extra point to make it a 4-point game with about 4 minutes to go. The object for the Bills' offense there should have been to go into a "4-minute offense" and try to drain the clock without ever giving the ball back to the Vikings -- or at least drain enough clock so that they get the ball back with no timeouts and minimal time left on the clock.
What do the Bills do? They go into shotgun, and throw three straight passes -- two of which were low percentage plays that fell incomplete. Only about a minute came off the clock, and the play-calls and poor execution (with a drop by Diggs and a penalty mixed in) actually served to aid the Vikings!
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21 minutes ago, pocoboy said:
My guess would be Dorsey vs. Allen.
I would be more inclined to say the issue is Dorsey + Allen. Not saying that the two do not have a GOOD relationship, but it is highly unlikely that the relationship is anything close to what Josh and Daboll had.
Remember, Daboll was the OC when Josh was drafted -- and was by all accounts very hard on Josh during his formative seasons, using plenty of "tough love". The relationship with Dorsey is likely nowhere near as provocative, especially since Dorsey had Josh's seal of approval when he was hired. And Josh, now a superstar, is not in the same place he was when he came into the league with plenty of talent but also plenty of naysayers questioning his ability to develop.
When Daboll would chew Josh out, the response was likely, "Yes sir". Dorsey likely does not have this same fatherly relationship with Josh.
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For as sloppy as Josh was Sunday -- and, make no mistake, both interceptions were not only bad but came at the most inopportune times -- he was quite clutch on that final ill-fated drive.
-- Hits Diggs on the sidelines with a laser to set up at midfield -- let down by holding call on Dawkins (which IMHO was bogus).
-- Now first and 20, comes back with a 18-yard strike to make it a manageable 2nd and 2.
-- Horrible non-block leads to blind-side hit and injured elbow. And a loss of 19 yards.
-- On 4th down play -- and with an injured elbow -- tosses perfect 70-yard pass to Davis, which is dropped. (I also believe that Davis was interfered with on that play)
With more help form teammates and less egregious officiating, the Bills likely tie the game, if not outright win with a late TD.
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22 minutes ago, Mango said:
A lot of talk of "he is really good, but the play caller, play, QB, etc". But isn't that sort of the point of the people arguing against the Knox contract? Lets say Knox is a top 5 TE. We don' utilize him as a top 5 TE, so why allocated that kind of cash to a really good player in a role that we don't focus on?
On the Bills of 10 years ago we would certainly bicker about how to get Knox involved. But right now the offense is humming at an elite level, so why change the offense just to get more value out of your contract?I like Knox. I am hoping he lives up to his valuation. Given the year he has had I am trying not to be too critical, but I also understand other frustrations. I think his valuation will end up being a lot more fair as others renew. Right now Knox (15/148 yards/1 TD) is slightly less productive than McKenzie (17/162 yards/ 3 TD) and slightly more productive than Shakir (6/112 yards/ 1 TD) in the passing game. Knox (273) as taken 101 more snaps than McKenzie (172) and 179 more than Shakir (94)
I hear what you are saying. But some things to consider...
1. Knox has provided value in the offense as a blocker.
2. He is playing the role that the coaches have asked -- it is not as if he has dropped numerous passes or failed to get open as the #1 option on passing routes.
3. While the numbers overall have not been eye-popping, he has come up huge with clutch catches in the two victories that went down to the wire. That would be the key long reception against Baltimore on the game winning drive -- and, of course, the TD catch against KC.
4. Right now the passing game is built around the talented WRs and dump-offs to the RBs -- and it has been quite successful. Eventually some defense (possibly the Packers on Sunday, who do actually have a strong secondary) or weather conditions, etc. are going to dictate another plan of attack. That is when I think you will see a big game from Knox.
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1 hour ago, Greg S said:
Maybe it's lack of weapons from previous Packers teams. Obviously losing Adams hurts Rodgers big time. It seems to me on a lesser scale then Brady but Rodgers has declined. Last week Rodgers was 23 of 35 for 194 yards with 2 TD's and 0 Int's. That isn't a bad day but it's not elite level dominant either. That was coming off back to back losses to the Giants and Jets. If the Bills play to their ability they will win and it doesn't matter what kind of night Rodgers has.
I 100% agree with the bolded part(s). That said, it would be unwise to underestimate Rodgers. He had 6 dropped passes in that game against Washington.
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16 hours ago, Charles Romes said:
He uses restraint in not saying flat out that Oliver is on the block.
Well, Oliver has clearly not been right since the Rams game. Hopefully he is now back to 100% after the bye, which should make the DL even BETTER.
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The short and quick answer to the question posed by the OP: John Elway.
There are very few decisions that he has made during his managerial tenure with the Broncos that have panned out.
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This situation reminds me of our very own Losman/Edwards situation 13-14 years ago. Everyone with eyeballs knew that JP was never going to be "the guy", and we hoped against hope that Trent could be. Remember words like "poise" being tossed around related to Trent Edwards?
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1 hour ago, Bandito said:
Any given Sunday. NFL had a bunch of upsets yesterday
Yes -- and the Bills will be playing teams that know how good the team in Buffalo is, so they will be getting everyone's best. That will start next Sunday night against a very desperate Packers team that has their backs to the wall.
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Some of this I would also attribute to the "Beasley Factor". For as sure-handed as Beasley was, he always seem to hit the ground immediately after catching the ball, which is certainly played a role in this low numbers last year versus this year.
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While everyone remembers the 13-second fiasco in the playoff game, what really drove a stake into the heart of the Bills' defense was allowing Mahomes to move around in the pocket, evade rushers, scramble, and buy time for his receivers. If the front 7 can make him uncomfortable (as the Raiders did in the first half last night), I love our chances!
Hopefully Von was taking notes on what Chandler Jones did in the 1st half last night.
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Yes, the denials remind me of the Antonio Brown trade talks prior to the 2020 season. While that trade never materialized (thankfully), Beane and the Steelers definitely had spoken and reportedly even had agreed upon trade terms.
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7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:
Nice! Phillips probably out until after the bye.
Not necessarily. McD loves to have fresh reinforcements along the DL -- and Ed has yet to look 100% since week 1.
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13 hours ago, UKBillFan said:
A sliding doors moment. If we hadn’t traded the pick and chosen Mahomes, how would he have fared here? And who would they have picked instead?Mahomes is a special player, and while he has certainly benefited from having a head coach like Andy Reid and a fine supporting cast (especially Kelce), I suspect that he would have made (almost) any team that drafted him happy. We'll never know -- and even if the Bills had not traded down, they still would not have taken Mahomes there as they reportedly were all set to draft Lattimore at #10.
As it turns out, a win-win for both teams as KC wound up with an MVP and Super Bowl champ, and the Bills wound up (eventually) with both Tre and Josh Allen. Allen isn't just a pure specimen at QB, he is a larger-than-life personality that is perfect for Buffalo. Both Allen and Mahomes have the likeability factor in spades, as opposed to the "other" Josh. I know little about Rosen -- he may be the kindest dude ever -- but he just comes across as someone you want to punch in the face.
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I recall many years ago Hines Ward once admitted that when he received a head injury in a game, he clutched his ankle and feigned a leg injury because he knew there was a strong likelihood that if anyone realized it was a head injury that he would be pulled from the game and maybe additional games as well. These players are warriors -- who often do not have their own physical best interests at heart. These protocols, in fact, exist to protect them from themselves.
In Tua's case, in particular, he knows that Miami was wooing Brady and taking a long look at acquiring Watson -- he was also coming off a career-defining game, and desperately wanted to build off that. So, it makes sense that he would want to claim that he received an injury to his back (which may have also been the case) rather than a head injury. An independent neurologist should have observed his staggering after the shove and head bouncing off the turf -- and deemed that was evidence of potential head trauma. In that case, against whatever protests Tua may have, he should have been ruled out for the remainder of the game on Sunday for his own good. If he was able to clear concussion protocol after the game, great. But better to err on the side of caution.
For their part, Miami was mortified when Teddy B. came in and looked like a fish-out-of-water against the rival Bills -- so they did not feel like asking questions when Tua claimed the injury was to his back and not his head. Someone who cares about the young man should have stepped up and insisted that he sit out. The coaches, management, training staff, and medical team for the Dolphins failed him.
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Yep, with so many worries about the missing players on defense, it was Morse's absence that played the biggest role in the loss in Miami.
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Vegas likes to look at team rankings. The Bills right now rank #1 in team defense and #2 in team offense. The Ravens offense is good too (#4) but their defense ranks dead last in the NFL.
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If we want to blame the coaching in this game, I put it on Dorsey for 2 poor sequences:
-- 2nd possession of the 1st half, from the 12-yard line run Moss on two consecutive plays for no gain, followed by the strip sack.
-- Next-to-last possession in the 2nd half. 2nd and goal (about a foot to go): Allen in shotgun for 3 straight plays, beginning with RPO that loses almost 2 yards.
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Poll: Sean Payton as Bills HC
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
This is simply ridiculous! So glad that "fans" are not the ones making the decisions. Right now we have a great tandem with McD and BB. After nearly 20 years of ineptitude, McD has led the Bills to the playoffs in 4 of his 5 seasons here. What is the best way to ruin a good thing? Destroy continuity, blow it up and constantly start over again!
Even this season -- the Bills are literally 3 plays away from being 9-0. Each of those games took something unlikely and the opponent playing out of their minds to beat the Bills. And that is with a team that is missing MANY starters.
While I do not agree with every decision that McD has made, he has created a great program with a winning formula. Once we get out of this funk, defense gets closer to healthy again -- and Josh gets his head on straight we will be fine, and folks with sense will look back at these cries to replace McD with laughter.