2003Contenders
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10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:
That's because it would've been a really stupid question as we needed to make sure we scored a touchdown to take the lead. You take 2nd and goal from the 1/2 yard line over first and goal from the two every time.
Also, accepting the penalty would have STOPPED the clock which is counter to the point that it was a mistake to decline it and have one fewer down to eat clock. So I definitely agree that McD made the right choice.
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Not sure if the OP is trolling us -- but maybe there is some merit to his point. That is, there was simply no excuse for the performance we just saw by the Buffalo Bills. And actually LOSING a game like this, rather than luckily squeaking by as we did last Sunday night against the Giants is more liable to create a valid sense of urgency and force the coaches to realize that there are serious problems that need to be addressed immediately.
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Knowing BB, I imagine the Pats game plan will be something like the following:
On offense, they will do their best to hide/protect Mac Jones by having him drop back to pass a minimal number of times. Maybe not to the extreme of the blizzard game from 2 years ago -- but I expect them to focus on the run and probably use a base with 6 offensive linemen hoping to get past our defensive line, which is missing our best interior run stuffer, and engulf our undersized LBs. If they have success doing this, it will allow them to control the game-flow and limit the number of possessions that our offense has. It also opens up their play-action passing game.
On defense, BB's goal has always been to try to eliminate the opponent's best player. That would be Diggs. And he has indeed done a pretty good job of limiting Diggs in the last few contests. This is a game where we need to see the other complimentary parts of the offense step up. Ironically, it was McK who stepped up against the Pats to make up for this in the last few contests we played against them. Could this be a breakout game for Hardy possibly?
The Bills are the better team and should be able to take care of business if the offense gets out of the funk they've had for the last couple of weeks and the defense can get off the field on 3rd down (or better, yet force turnovers). If we can jump on them early and get ahead by multiple scores, it could get ugly for them. But if we don't come out sharp, this has he makings of a real dogfight.
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1 hour ago, Success said:
It's good to remember.
Against the Giants, we drove to their side of the field pretty often - but were derailed there by mistakes most of the time. 2 missed FG's, and one punt that should have been another attempt. One tipped pass for INT, and the fumble from Davis when we were rolling on a drive. There was also the PI that wasn't called.
Seemed like almost a "Murphy's Law" kind of thing where just about every drive was undone w/ errors. But it wasn't like we couldn't move the ball.
Not to mention 2 deep passes that looked like they would have connected minus "tangled feet".
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I would say that it probably was DPI and a flag COULD have been thrown there.
But I will also say that it was not a "missed" call, as the official was right there, literally a few feet away from the play. He was just outside the endzone -- so he had a great view of the play as well as what transpired during the whole sequence. My guess is that he saw the initial contact made by Waller and the continued hand fighting that went on between both players and elected to keep the flag in his pocket. I think that was reasonable.
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9 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:
Yep. I said this when they first announced that they were going to fly out on Thursday night. I’ll say again, as I said then though, maybe they didn’t have a place to go to set up shop for the week and practice. Hard to imagine the latter, but who knows. Maybe they told the league weeks ago that they were going over on Thursday night, and even if they decided at the last minute that they wanted to spend the week there, by then, all available venues were booked up/not available.
In any case, that’s still not the reason why they lost. Poor execution and poor play calling on offense is why they lost.
McD and crew did their research on the travel protocol for heading over to London -- and reached out to teams who had made multiple trips over there for advice. The consensus was that Thursday evening travel was the best prescribed day/time for departure. What was lost in this equation was that historically BOTH teams had to travel over there during the same week -- and historically we have seen sloppy play in these games due to the change in typical weekly preparation by BOTH teams. In this case -- and for the first time ever -- the Bills were facing an opponent who did not have to endure the same turmoil they did during the days leading up to the game. As we saw this turned out to be a HEAVY advantage for the Jags -- and I doubt that the NFL will try this again given the unfair competitive imbalance that it clearly presented. The "experiment" failed.
You are right that the play calling and execution left a great deal to be desired. And I certainly was (am) not happy with Dorsey in particular. Yes, the Jags clearly looked sharper -- had FAR fewer missed tackles and significantly better 3rd down conversion rates. But I submit to you that this was more of a by-product of the advantage in weekly preparation, rest, etc. that the Jags experienced more so than any commentary on the quality of coaching. In fact, given the time of possession domination, etc., the fact that the Bills were only down 11-7 heading into the 4th quarter may say a thing or two about the quality of the Bills coaching.
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While I agree that there were plenty of other reasons why the Bills lost on Sunday -- officiating absolutely played a role.
To me the worst was the "completed pass" that McD challenged. Even the Jags knew it was incomplete and tried to hustle to the line of scrimmage to get another play off before the challenge flag came out. That ball CLEARLY came out as the defender was rolling around on the ground and prior to a "football move".
Inexplicably the challenge failed and it was deemed a catch. Even the NFL Network's rules guru had a a hard time explaining why the call was upheld -- just something about the receiver being touched down which effectively ended the play prior to he ball popping out. Even Kurt Warner thought that was BS.
That call by the refs (and apparently New York) provided the Jags with yet another 3rd down conversion AND cost the Bills a much needed timeout. It may have seemed like no big deal -- but it definitely played a role in the outcome of the game.
Same with the OPI call that negated a TD. It is easy to say that did not matter because the Bills answered back with a TD on the very next play. But the requirement of another play took about 10 seconds off the clock. That would have been pretty valuable at the end of the game, right?
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Read an article this morning stating that, after insisting that Jeudy and Sutton were both off limits in the preseason, the Broncos are now making it known that Sutton may be available after all.
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I agree with the main point made by the OP that is was good to see Josh not try to do too much in a game where he may have historically caused costly turnovers. And I certainly believe that the offense's woes were not Josh's fault, as there were many dropped passes and poorly run routes than constantly came up short of the 1st down.
That said, I also worry that perhaps the coaching staff has drilled it into his head TOO MUCH about NOT taking off and running with the ball. There were opportunities Sunday where he could have probably got a 1st down with his legs but chose to try to complete a low percentage pass instead. I mean when Dabol was here, if the offense sputtered, he would call designed run plays for Josh to help get the offense on track. That may have helped Sunday when the offense was clearly suffering from jet lag and punting on 6 of 7 possessions.
More than just poor play calling, I think Dorsey suffers from poor play DESIGN. I am tired of seeing these 2 and 3 yard routes, which rely heavily on YAC when the team has shown an inability to get YAC all season. What kind of genius call has 4 receivers in the same vicinity? That happened multiple times on Sunday. I also winder why quit-hitting timing routes are not more of a staple of the offense to get into some sort of rhythm? Not sure if Dorsey isn't calling them -- or if Josh is just holding onto the ball too long and not hitting on them. Instead the plays seem to take forever to develop -- and then the pass play goes for 4 yards with no YAC.
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3 hours ago, zow2 said:
The reality check for me is that the Buffalo Bills are not in the same class as: San Fran, KC and Philly. I thought they were after the Miami game but they're just not. The Bills lose too many close games...the running game disappears, coaching gets disjointed and too many weird things happen including serious injuries.
I'd put the Bills in there with Dallas, Miami, Cinci, Detroit, Jags. The problem is Burrow is getting healthy and the Bengals could get on a serious roll and Miami can outscore anyone on a given Sunday plus their RB's are insane. Meanwhile Buffalo is trending a little downwards from major defensive injuries. It's reality.
I agree -- but that is as of right now, October 2023. Much can happen between now and January of 2024, which is when teams need to peak for the playoffs.
Remember, the best Bills playoff team of recent years (2021) was the one that had the worst regular season record -- 13 seconds aside, that team probably would have won the Super Bowl. Meanwhile, last year we lost only 3 regular season games (literally half as many as the year before) by a combined 8 points -- but the team had peaked in the early part of the season and was on fumes come playoff time.
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And all 4 teams were undefeated at the time they played the Bills.
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Honestly, I am not too worried about the Bills' offense. Aside from Josh's mental collapse in Week 1 against the Jets (whom he has historically struggled against), the offense has played pretty well. Meanwhile, Miami's defense has been below average through three games -- and Josh and the Bills' offense has historically played well against them. Bills just need to FINISH drives (score TDs in the red zone) and avoid turnovers.
I get that Miami's offense has done phenomenal things through the first 3 weeks, but the Bills' defense is stout and has not allowed more than 16 points in any of the first 3 games. Meanwhile, 2 of the 3 defenses that Miami faced so far are bottom-of-the-barrel. The one good defense they faced (New England) kept them in check. The key will be to limit the Miami big plays (classic bend-but-don't break that McD employs) .
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1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said:
Josh was throwing to Diggs in the back of the end zone but Knox did not know that and tried to grab it. Design worked except for the Knox part. I would not have called it because it took so long to develop but the design was actually solid.
Actually I think the play was designed to go to Harty to the right, and he would have had a walk-in TD. However, he slipped and fell so Josh had to improvise. Not impressed at all with him through the first 2 weeks.
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On 9/12/2023 at 4:40 AM, GunnerBill said:
I'd add Ed Oliver was outstanding 2nd half. He was pretty invisible firdt half and people in thr GDT were happily calling him out. Second half he was excellent. No coincidence that the touchdown drive was with the 2nd team DL in - Shaq, Settle, Phillips, AJE. I think they rotated the line less last night but the one drive the backups were out there... it showed.
Is that true about the backups being in there in that situation -- where the Bills were clinging to a one-score lead and trying to prevent the Jets from scoring on a drive that started at mid-field?
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6 hours ago, Airseven said:
Burrow is on another level with how he processes the game mentally. He also has better weapons and the Bengals invested heavily in their OL in 2022. Bills WRs and OL have been mostly a revolving door of riff raff the past couple years.Interestingly, the Chiefs also committed an off-season to revamping their OL in 2021.
How did Burrow look in Week 1?
Like Josh he looked like trash. And against a team (in this case Cleveland) that has historically given him fits -- just like the Jets have Josh recently.
I expect both QBs to rebound after poor showings in Week 1.
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Josh is a gambler and a gunslinger -- that's just who he is. Trying to coach that out of him leads to him over-thinking and playing somewhat "unnatural".
What Josh needs to learn is WHEN to take those shots -- and when to be more cautious with the ball. That is true from a field position/down-and-distance situation as well as game flow. Going into the game against that Jets defense, we knew that points were going to be at a premium. That is why McD elected to kick the short field goal rather than go for it on 4th and short early in the game. Nursing a 10-point lead at half time against such a stout Jets defense with an opposing offense led by Zack Wilson, the plan should have been to play it "safe".
Also, Dorsey deserves some of the blame here too. There is no reason in that situation that Josh should have dropped back to pass 40+ times.
If all the offense did was go three-and-out the entire 2nd half, they probably win the game. Marty Ball is very boring -- and will not win games against opposing teams with good offenses -- but against that Jets team on Monday night, that would have been the recipe for success.
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9 hours ago, HappyDays said:
I know you're literally a professional so maybe I'm out of my depth here or misunderstanding you, but isn't a corner/smash route on a high/low concept classically a cover 2 beater? Like fundamentally that is the best way to beat cover 2 outside the numbers?
Just to be sure I'm not talking out of my ass I found plenty of articles that indicate the same. Here's one that explains it best:
https://www.espn.com/ncf/columns/davie/1437187.html
To the section I bolded, Davis totally failed to do that. He did not fake a vertical route which means he did not freeze Whitehead which gave Whitehead easy access to the ball. Allen sees Sauce cheat towards Kincaid so he throws the high concept to Davis. The pass itself was not as far to the sideline as you'd like but to me this was more a failure of Davis to run his route properly.
Again I know you do this for a living so let me know if I'm missing something.
This is what Aikman said during the game too. He blamed the INT on Davis.
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1 hour ago, ngbills said:
This is deceiving because it only takes into account if he made the tackle. Plays he was blocked and the guy runs 50 yards have no impact here.
Bernard did not get his first tackle vs run until the midway in the third quarter...says something. Half his tackles came when the Jets were just running the clock down.
QTR 1
0 tackes
QTR 2
0 tackles
QTR 3
First tackle was a 9 yard run
Second tackle was a 1 yard run that Oliver stuffed
QTR 4
Third was a 5yd run
4th was a 2 yd QB sneak setting up FG w/ 2 min left running clock on 4 and 1
5th on a 1 yd run setting up FG w/ 2 min left running clock on 2 and 13
6th on a 6yd run setting up FG w/ 2 min left running clock on 3 and 12
I want to see stats on how many times he was pancaked. I saw at least a few.
Hmmm. I could have sworn that it Was Bernard that chased Hall down on that long run that effectively saved a TD. That was definitely in the first half.
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I remember early in the season last year that Mahomes was struggling -- also trying to be greedy too often when defenses were taking the deep stuff away.
Then he adjusted -- learned to take the check-downs, etc. I wonder if McD should call his good buddy Andy Reid and see if he will share what the Chiefs' coaching staff did to get this through to Mahomes?
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18 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:
He took issue with the Bills handling of Tom Donahoe if I remember correctly.
Overall, he was a negligible piece of my overall football experience.
If he ragged on the Bills pre-2018, they probably deserved it.
Yes. Between the time that Donahoe left the Steelers and went to work for the Bills he worked with Mort at ESPN and the two became friends. When TD was fired, Mort defended him and ragged on Ralph and the Bills organization. In particular, Mort was highly critical of the Bills first draft without TD (in 2006) and reported that there was mass confusion in the war room as led by Marv.
Bills fans (especially on this board) took serious issue with Mort over all this -- and there were multiple posts here about him. That led Tim Graham (who also worked for ESPN at the time and was a friend of Mort's) to get upset and leave this board.
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Tasker is a Buffalo Bill through and through.
I think in his early years of broadcasting Bills games he tried to overcompensate for his "homerism" and probably came across as overly negative about the team. I also think that during the drought he probably (like many fans, including myself) fell into the "oh no, here we go again -- what can go wrong now?" mindset. I know when I watch games, especially with folks that are NOT Bills fans, I sometimes come across as negative because of the pessimism that has been ingrained over the last 20 years.
With the drought over, I do find myself more optimistic (although the pessimism still creeps in from time to time). I would not be surprised if Tasker's evolution has been somewhat similar.
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1. Penalties and OL were huge problems.
2. Defense looked slow and disinterested.
3. I think Tomlin still remembers last year's game that DID matter when the Bills crushed the Steelers and actually game-planned for this one (that doesn't matter).
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I remember hearing shortly after the draft that Beane thought he had a deal in place with the Giants (think he even said so himself) -- but had to shift gears when the Giants made the move up. The inference was that the Bills were (by Beane's own admission) targeting a "receiver" (note he did not say WIDE receiver). That has led many to speculate that they may have been targeting 1-2 of the WRs that were drafted a few spots ahead of the Bills. That is possible -- but it is also possible that Kincaid truly was the target all along.
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The key is Josh Allen.
I do believe that Sherfield was a great under-the-radar pickup in the off-season. It seems that every veteran receiver we have brought in since Josh has been the starting QB -- from John Brown to Cole Beasley to Stef Diggs -- has had career stats playing with Josh. The exception would be Emmanuel -- but he battled through injuries and wound up retiring at the end of the season. Maybe not a "breakout" season, but I do expect Sherfield to make solid contributions this season.
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Trade deadline needs what are your priorities
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Given the huge injuries to the defensive side of the ball, I agree that getting a DT to replace Jones is paramount. Missing both him and Oliver yesterday was huge. I would also like to see a decent CB brought in. Elam's days here appear to be numbered (ironically, maybe he could be part of a trade package) and Dane Jackson has not been good either this year.
Honestly, if we bring in someone on the offensive side of the ball, I would be more inclined to make a move for an OT than a receiver. The whole line struggled yesterday. Even when Brown has "decent" days it is usually because he has had to get help from a TE chipping -- which limits the ability of the TEs to make big plays in the passing game. That said, Dalton did have a coming out party yesterday, so hopefully that continues. All of this is to say that I would not break the bank (and future draft compensation) to bring in a WR that likely won't get heavily targeted anyway -- but if there is a dude out there with reliable hands that can consistently convert on 1st downs I would be all for it.