2003Contenders
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Lat Murray more likely to make it onto the final roster now, I suspect.
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Derrick Holmes crushing it in a game against the Redskins back in the mid-90s, literally carrying multiple defenders with him into the end zone. After the game reporters asked him what inspired him to play so hard -- he replied that his brother had just been convicted of murder and was facing the death penalty.
TE Bobby Collins having his height and weight mis-reported in draft publications. The Bills were proud to do their "due diligence" and identify him as a "diamond in the rough". Not sure that he caught more than a handful of passes during his days in Buffalo.
Jason Peters went undrafted out of Arkansas. He was signed as an undrafted free agent as a Tight End. After a year or so playing on special teams and in gadget plays, he landed the starting RT position. The Bills signed him to a decent contract extension. They then promptly moved him to LT and slapped their backs for "buying low". We all know what happened next.
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It cracks me up how these media types "just call it they way they see it" when trashing the focal point of an article -- yet, many of them are so hyper-sensitive themselves. Going back 20 years ago, the local media adored Tom Donahoe -- until the day of the press conference when he announced that Gregg Williams was not coming back. Donahoe dared to criticize the media for their coverage of the team during that PC, and he was on their you-know-what list after that.
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I will say that if nothing else 2022 taught us all about how important depth is at the safety position -- with 4th and 5th safeties pressed to start at various times during the season.
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1 hour ago, Andy1 said:
Diggs could have solved all this crap with one simple team affirmative public statement. He chose not to. Dude needs to grow up. Andre Reed is still my favorite WR. Despite all the pain of losing big games he never was a me first player.
I love Andre too -- but he without a doubt also had some of that diva in him (Like all the great ones do).
Just a few reflections:
1. Throwing the fit in Super Bowl XXVI that cost the team valuable field position when they were finally putting together a great drive.
2. Similar to Diggs' meltdown against Allen in the Bengals game, Andre did the same thing to Kelly in a Monday night game (against Pittsburgh, I believe). The two responded the following week with Andre setting an all time record (at the time) for receptions in a game against Favre's Packers.
3. After the 1995 season, when he was a free agent, he sulked and felt "disrespected". Kelly and other players had to appeal to him and massage his ego to convince him to come back.
4. In the wild card game at the end of the season, trailing by 10 points and in desperation mode on a 3rd down play, he catches a pass and is downed inside the 1-yard line. Believing he got into the end zone, he throws a fit and the team takes a 15-yard penalty, which sets them up at 4th and goal from outside the 15. Wade elects to kick the field goal and try for the on sides kick -- which the Bills recover (but now need a game-tying TD rather than a game-tying FG). The game ends with Miami stopping the Bills goal-to-go.
There is plenty more -- and (like I said) I will always love Andre and believe that he is one of the greatest WRs of all time. I think the diva mindset simply goes hand-in-hand with being a great receiver. Rice, Moss, TO, Carter, Reed... Now Diggs.
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1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:
Chiefs put up like 35 a game in the playoffs when we played them. The Bengals whipped the Bills but that wasn’t a full strength defense mentally or physically.
The defense doesn’t bend too much when operating as it should. It isn’t an in your face defense, which I like better, but its a well coached defense that makes few mistakes.
Yes.
Also with all the injuries and inexperience in the defensive backfield, McD and Frazier were playing even softer than they normally would, hoping to cover for those inadequacies. This was most exposed in both games against the Bengals in which Burrow got the ball out of his hand so quickly.
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While I do not necessarily disagree with anything Barnwell said, I find it interesting that he had the Bills ranked #10 last season and dropping to 20 heading into 2023, especially considering that we really did not lose much on that side of the ball in the off-season.
I am guessing that perhaps he underestimated (as many of us did) the significance of replacing Beasley in the slot position/security blanket role for Josh last year and that perhaps the 2022 supporting cast (especially Davis) was overrated heading into 2022. That may be true -- but the various additions along the OL should help to elevate the success of the various skill position players -- and I suspect that one of the new receivers (including Kincaid) will help fill the Beasley role.
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And yet I remember all the hype about what a great leader EJ Manuel was -- how he instantly took control of any room he walked into. That is what the military calls "Command Presence". Not saying that Dak (or EJ) do not have that in spades -- but that still does not mean that they are/were premier NFL QBs.
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So that game and another one later that year (between the Jets and Seahawks) that decided playoff seeding were key factors in bringing instant replay (in its current format) back to the NFL. The Buffalo/Pats game in particular -- because Ralph had historically opposed instant replay. That game was the primary reason he changed his tune and voted (and in doing so got the league the number of votes necessary) to reinstate it in the off-season.
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3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:
I was only 10 but remember this game very well. Remember my teacher Mrs V being very pissed off first thing to start the day lol
What a beast comment from Ralph! Haha wish i was old enough to remember this statement
What was the just give it to him? Hot mic on that last PI in endzone or something?
So it was all set up by a 4th and long play along the sidelines (with mere seconds left). Bledsoe (with the Pats at the time) completed a pass to a Pats WR -- and the receiver came down out-of-bounds -- and was driving back for the ball. Those were the days when officials had to make a judgement call on whether or not the receiver would have come down in bounds if not shoved out by a defender. That part of the play is debatable -- but the receiver had to come back for the ball and was clearly a yard short of the first down marker. 2 officials were on the scene and trying to make a call -- and one said to the other "Just give it to them".
The next play as time expired was the Hail Mary to endzone where the officials called DPI, which set up an untimed 1st and goal from the 1. Bledose then completed a TD pass to Ben Coates. Wade was made and had his team leave the field. The DBag Pete Carroll (head coach for the Pats at the time) responded by calling for a 2 point conversion.
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15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:
No disrespect, but I have to say, this is a real odd hill you are trying to die on. I mean, no GM in NFL history ever traded up knowing 100% for sure that X team was 100% taking X player and the only way to get them was to trade up. Literally never happened because teams don't share their draft boards with other GM's. They make calculated decisions on where a player might go and weigh the risk of waiting against the cost of moving up to insure they get said player. So the point you are trying to insist on making is honestly just irrelevant to the decisions a GM has to make on draft night when facing the proposition of staying put or making a move to get a guy. And Beane was comfortable with the cost to get a guy he had way ahead of any other player on his board so he pulled the trigger to make sure he got him.
I mean if you expect Beane to ONLY trade up if he 100% knows another teams official draft choice before they have made it, then I think you have a very unrealstic view of what information a GM is expected to concretely know before making decisions.
Bottom line too, is just about every sports insider, analyst, commentator, and fan pretty much feel like Dallas was likely going to want Kincaid there if he was on the board. So its not even requiring a leap in logic here to justify Beane's decision to move up, it was what most people thought would be at or near the top of Dallas draft board. And given they took a TE right after this, that is pretty much validated they wanted a TE early and that it is entirely possibly, maybe even likely, Kincaid would have been the BPA when they were on the clock.
I for one am glad we don't have a GM afraid to make a small move to get the player they covet, especially when that player is WIDELY considered the best player available still at that spot and also widely seen as a top 10 talent. Not sure why it rubs you the wrong way so much, but hey, everyone is welcome to their own opinions and reasons.
GoBills
Beane was on Moving the Chains on Sirius Monday and addressed the trade and the thoughts that went into it. It was a very candid conversation between him and Pat Kerwin. Beane stated the following:
1. Went into the draft with limited picks so they knew they needed to be judicious about trade-ups, etc.
2. The run on WRs came quite a bit later than they anticipated. They thought the first could come off the board as early as 12 and certainly by the teens. When the first one dropped to the 20s, that's when they started to believe that they had a real shot at trading up to get one of the receivers or Kincaid.
3. Beane said they first tried trading up with his "good buddy" with the Giants, but the Giants had already made another deal. He was vague about whther that deal would have been for Kincaid or for one of those receivers -- but he implied that he had Kincaid and at least one of those receivers with a close grade. When the 4 receivers all went one after the other, he knew he needed to move up ahead of Dallas to get Kincaid. Kerwin asked him how certain he was that Dallas was going to take Kincaid. Beane responded that he had reliable sources that told him that Dallas was prepared to take Kincaid, then paused and said with a chuckle "But I guess you would have to ask Dallas." Kerwin chuckled too. The sense I got was that both of them believe that Dallas was definitely prepared to draft Kincaid -- but since the draft the Cowboys have held fast that Smith was their guy all along, which is team-speak rather than the truth. Of course, we will never know for sure what Dallas would have done if Kincaid was still there, but many in the NFL arena (including Beane and the Bills) believed that Dallas was going to take him.
4. In the 2nd round he said that he was very tempted to move up for Torrence -- but having already traded away the 4th they did not have the ammunition they needed to trade up. When Torrence was still there with their pick, the war room got very excited and he said it was a no-brainer. Said Torrence was their top graded guard in the draft.
5. It is interesting that Beane actually downplayed the Williams selection in the 3rd. Said they expect him to contribute in a big way on special teams and likely serve as a backup at one of the LB spots. The plan is to work him in as both MLB and OLB and see which position he is most comfortable with and progress from there.
6. Regarding Shorter, he loved his physical tools and measurables. Said it was a bonus that Shorter played with Richardson at Florida, so he was used to having to improvise and roll with broken plays -- attributes that should help Josh. They like him on special teams too.
7. Beane did not come right out and say it, but he intimated that he likes next year's draft much better, which is why he was happy to maneuver in the 5th-7th rounds this year and pick up 2 extra 6's next year, while still maintaining 3 picks in those rounds this year.
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Caught Beane on Moving the Chains on Sirius yesterday. He mentioned also that one of the things they also liked about Shorter was his playing with Richardson in Florida, which led to a lot of broken plays. BB thinks this experience will be an asset to Josh on extended plays.
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Did anyone else see a report last night on ESPN that the Panthers were reportedly set on shocking the world by taking Levis at #1 overall instead of Young? The report was not from one of the reliable guys like Shefter but supposedly the report was solid enough to have played a role in Vegas odds about the draft order.
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12 hours ago, CapeBreton said:
Let’s say the Bills don’t draft a LB in round 1, what are the odds that one of Jack Campbell, Trenton Simpson, or Drew Sanders are there for the Bills second pick?
I think there is a pretty good chance that all 3 will be gone before the Bills' #59 pick. That is why I suspect that if they opt to draft a non-LB in the first round, then they will move up a few spots in the 2nd to ensure that they get one of Campbell/Simpson/Sanders. Think back to how they did in 2007, when they drafted Lynch in the 1st and traded up for Poz in the 2nd.
Given the consensus on the low number of first round-graded players in this draft, I honestly do not think the Bills will be too worried about "value" at 27, since there is unlikely to be much in the way of value at that spot anyway. And while trading down may be nice in a situation like this, it takes two to tango AND there is something to be said for procuring that extra cost-controlled year (and option year) by staying put in the first round. Now, if they see one of the last of the 1st round graded players (regardless of position) still on the board in the 20s, I could see them trading up a few spots to get him.
I would say that with McD's inside Kuechly source and the obvious need at the position, assuming no genuine 1st round graded player drops to 27 (and barring a slight trade up), Campbell could be the go-to pick at 27.
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I guess I would go Mingo here. Honestly, I suspect that when the "run" starts in the middle of the round on the LBs that Beane would trade up a few spots (probably cost a 5th) to grab one of Campbell/Sanders/Simpson.
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Just some random thoughts and why no one should be "haunted" about that trade back in 2017.
First and foremost, even if the Bills had stayed at 10, they were not drafting Mahomes. Whaley was on the way out and the new regime did not want to entrust him with making the pick at QB. (Reportedly Whaley was enamored with Watson, whereas the Pegulas loved Mahomes.) When the Bills were on the clock at 10 they reportedly were prepared to draft Lattimore if the trade had not materialized.
Mahomes is a generational talent -- but he had the luxury of having a red shirt year sitting behind a professional veteran in Alex Smith. He was also blessed with one of the all time great play callers in Andy Reid as his head coach and a very good supporting cast. I do wonder what trajectory his career would have taken on if he had played on the same Bills squad that Josh did in 2018 with no mentor at QB, a horrific OL and garbage at WR?
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11 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:
a bit random..... did Buff run a 3-4 early Dareus years? Im leaning towards no but cant remember/kinda young to been paying attention to def fronts
Yes and no...
The chronology is that Jauron ran his version of the Tampa 2 with a base 4-3, but when Chan Gailey came aboard in 2010 he wanted to install a 3-4 scheme. Of course, he just wanted to run the offense himself, so brought in an underwhelming George Edwards (whom Gailey admitted was not a "household name") to run the defense. Buddy and Chan drafted Torell Troupe (a few spots in front of Gronk) to serve as their NT. He never panned out. A year later Dareus was drafted #3 overall with Edwards still running a failed 3-4 defense. Dareus was part of the rotation at NT.
Edwards was fired by the end of the season and Dave Wanstedt took over in 2012. He tried running both 3-4 and (mostly) 4-3 packages but neither worked successfully. Even with Mario Williams freshly signed, DW was surprisingly terrible as the DC. Marrone came along in 2013 and hired two very good DCs during his two years here, Pettine and Schwartz -- both of whom ran a 4-3 and got the best out of Dareus.
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Dick Jauron was somewhat underrated as the Bills head coach from 2006-2009.
Yes, he had his shortcomings and could never get past Brady/BB and the Patriots. But...
1. During his tenure, the Bills roster was woeful in the talent department.
2. Managed to get to 7-9 with JP Losman at QB -- and the Bills were in the playoff hunt until the final week of the season.
3. 2007 team was injury riddled with a then record # of guys on IR. Still went with 7-9 with Losman and Edwards at QB.
4. Got off to a hot 4-0 start before Edwards got his his brain scrambled in Arizona. Edwards (and the team) never psychologically recovered.
Again, not suggesting he was a great coach (still shudder at "It's hard to win in the NFL") -- just that he did a much better job of playing the hand he was dealt than many remember.
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3 minutes ago, GreggTX said:
I will be writing off any notion of winning a SB if we blow a 1st round pick on a LB. There's plenty of LB talent to be had on day 2.
This is my take as well. Also, I suspect that there will be some disagreement in the war room regarding the various LB options. Do they go high floor (Campbell) -- or high ceiling (Sanders, Simpson)?
What I can see them doing is taking a WR or OL at 27 and waiting on LB until the 2nd -- but possibly panicking a bit and trading up a few spots to get the LB they settle on.
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A few other thoughts...
1. The Chiefs' decision to part ways with Hill was partially $ based but team dynamics also played a role. Hill had become a head case and a major distraction to the team.
2. Reid is one of the all time great play callers in NFL history. I marvel when I watch Chiefs games and wonder "How are defenses allowing Kelce to get so wide open?" Some of that is due to the generational talent that Kelce is -- but a lot of it is also based on schemes to get him open.
3. Mahomes is great at buying time. Better, when he gets flushed from the pocket, there always seems to be a WR somewhere that has come back to bail him out.
I would love to see the Bills' receivers better coached up to provide Josh with multiple options when a play breaks down, like Reid's Chiefs WRs are.
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OK, I'll play along.
I get the mind-set that Allen is such a transitional QB that he makes all of his WRs better. Pretty much every receiver that has played with Allen has posted career-best numbers. In reality, what quality receiver has he ever had to throw the ball to BESIDES Diggs? Yes, Brown and Beasley posted quality numbers with Allen and the Bills -- but what they do after leaving the Bills? Nada -- both wound up on the trash heap and were available for free late last season.
Long story short, I don't think the Bills NEED an elite #2 to play opposite Diggs -- and the money spent on such a player would be better spent elsewhere, I believe. Of course, having a stud #2 would certainly help. They just need a reliable target who can haul in more than 50% of his targets (yes, I am talking to you Davis).
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While I absolutely agree that Josh needs to be careful and not absorb unnecessary shots, I do believe that it is in his nature to play the way he does. And honestly, if he starts doing things that are not natural for him, he could very well open himself up to injury -- rather than avoid it.
Let's remember that the elbow injuries that he has sustained came when he was in the pocket and from his blind side when protection broke down.
Solutions:
1. Improve the OL
2. Dial up plays that allow Josh to get the ball out of his hand quicker
3. Make use of check-downs
4. Be smarter about when it is time to throw the ball away
5. Get down or out of bounds when possible
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First, it starts at the top with Kraft giving BB unwavering and total control of the team -- and mostly staying out of his way to do what he needed to do. Anyone coming to the Patriots as a coach or player knew this going in -- and it makes a big difference not only from a continuity perspective but also from an accountability perspective when everyone knows who is in charge.
Then it is about a system that everyone on the team MUST buy into -- or be shown the door. Remember, for the introductions for their first Super Bowl they were simply introduced as "the team" refusing to be introduced individually.
And, while player-for-player they may not have had many superstars, they had hard-nosed, intelligent and versatile guys who were willing to do whatever it took to win -- even if the game plan called for different personnel game-in and game-out. In a way, this concept and approach reminds me a lot of Shula's 70's era Dolphins. They had that no-name defense loaded with lunch-pale guys who knew their role and limited their mistakes.
And then, of course, there was Brady who elevated the play of his supporting cast, was clutch in big games, and was obsessed with winning.
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BB indicated that the team is looking for a power back, which Singletary is not. To me that leaves the following options:
1. Davis or Hunt are about all that are left in free agency
2. Trade for Henry
3. Draft a big back in the middle rounds
I suppose with the RB market drying up the way it has and DS remaining unsigned, the Bills could be interested in bringing him back at a bargain price -- but I think they would still be looking for a power back, most likely in the draft in this situation.
Rewatching the Week 3 Dolphins game
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
It helps, I think, to provide some perspective on this game -- the game-day conditions and what was going on at that time in the season.
1. The defensive backfield was ridiculously under-manned -- with multiple rookies being pressed into action in only the 3rd game of the season. Recall that it was the previous Monday night game against the Titans when so many defenders -- including both of our All Pro level safeties -- were injured. So these young guys were asked to step up early in the season against 2 of the best WRs in the league and on a short week, no less.
2. As we know, that day it was ridiculously hot and guys were battling through heat-related ailments. The coaches were doing their best to rotate guys (as McD always likes to do with the DL), but guys were having to be escorted off the field to get IV's etc. So, while the 3 pass rushers on that play (aside from Miller) may not have been our best 3, it is possible that they were the guys that were "fresh" enough to play on that down.
Not at all giving Frazier a pass here, as I think the 3rd-and-22 play was indicative of how he coached "scared" a number of times during the season (most obviously in the playoff game against Cinci). But, given the situation -- multiple young and inexperienced players in key positions, the weather conditions and the quality of opposing receivers on the field -- I get it.
I am more inclined to be disappointed in the OL (who allowed M. Ingram to get a clean shot on Josh and force a fumble to allow the Dolphins to get into the game at a time when it looked like yet another blowout against Miami was in the works), multiple key drops by G. Davis, and poor decisions by McKenzie in terms of clock preservation at the end of the half as well as the end of the game. Obviously, Josh missing the layup pass to the wide open McKenzie at the goal line -- but he could honestly barely stand at the point of the game himself.