TXBILLSFAN

YES! While it obviously depends on what you give up for him, but, YES. YES. YES. He is a legit franchise QB that struggled in the pre-season and game 1 in new offense. He looked pretty good against Detroit. BTW, Eli on this team with the skill players on offense and an improving O-Line and good defense, Buffalo would immediately be favorites to make playoffs and could challenge New England for division.

HD on my side via DirecTV

I still can't reconcile the $1.4B bid by Pegula and why it was necessary for him to outbid Trump by $600M and the TO group's ill-fated bid by $350M ? There were reports of 2 other mystery bidders, was Pegula duped by the trust into bidding higher ? It sure would have been nice for the $400M to be used toward a new stadium. Again, I think Pegs deserves an incredible amount of thanks for stepping up, ending this process as soon as he could, I'm just not sure he needed to go that high.

Interesting thoughts.The point I'm struggling with reconciling is what Pegula ended up paying for the team, $1.4B ? That's over 50% higher than their reported valuation. If the process was so restrictive in terms of geography, why did Pegs need to go so high ? Three bidders, one confirmed at $1.05B, Trump supposedly at $800M and Pegs at $1.4B ? There's got to be more to it. I know Kryk surmised it was to "close" the negotiations quickly, but, that seems like a ridiculous premium for that. Anyone know anything ?

I think it would work in a limited role, similar to Craig Patrick with the Sabres or maybe it's temporary as they transition in the ownership. I keep looking at the Sabres and the lessons the Pegs learned and not repeating what didn't work and replicating what in the end did work. I've posted this before, but the Pegs like the split organization, where Black runs operations and is separated from the hockey department.

Agree on the Overdorf position. I also think the Pegs will covet the knowledge he brings with respect to the workings of NFL FO's. I think with the Pegs willingness to spend money, I can see them poaching talent from other team's scouting departments and FO's. Agents typically have very good relationships with scouts. I am very intrigued on the Polian angle. I was always a proponent of bringing him back after Indy tossed him aside, if nothing else for a mentor for Whaley. I thought he had a hell of a lot more to offer than Buddy.

In my OP I made it clear that I was told France would be a significant player. I've been unable to validate that since Tuesday's big news, but can't see why things would have changed. I like the idea of Polian being involved. He was the most successful GM in Bills history and one of the best of all time. I don't think the game has passed him by, give me a break, it's like riding a bike, you don't wake up one day and all of a sudden not know football. His issues at the end in Indy were more about him stepping away and letting his son do more of the heavy lifting and then of course, his loyalty to Peyton. I don't see Polian in any role but a part time consultant, an independent voice to help the Pegs evaluate the football operations. One last point, I think all of us have to remind ourselves that Whaley is still a talented, yet very young in the job and has been given a lot of responsibility. One of the best things for him would be to have a smart football guy, who is well respected than can mentor him.

Boy Sully just doesn't rain on the parade, he pisses all over it !!

LOL.By that logic, if Whaley made bad picks every year, you'd fire the scouts and never the GM, which you and both know is not the case. CEO's actually do get fired, and for good reason. I'm not suggesting if the Bryce Brown trade backfires you fire Brandon. There is a cumulative affect of decisions over time and there are obviously different decisions that are given different weight. For example, missing on a 1st round pick for a GM is a BIG deal, missing on a 2nd is less, a 3rd is less, etc. etc. I have to think at some point you encountered a leader of an organization in your professional life that was fired for good reason. I've seen it many times first hand, sometimes it's justified, sometimes it's not. What I have seen is that organizations that lack clear objectives and clear responsibilities with no accountability never succeed over the long term.

You make it sound like Brandon has tenure, like a NYS school teacher. If he's responsible, he's accountable, otherwise, he's the owner ;-)

I don't know whether he did or didn't, that's why I said in my "maybe he did" and later "this could have happened"

I think he should have approached Whaley and challenged him (maybe he did) on the offseason backup QB strategy. I think most fans were concerned about Lewis/Tuel and I wouldn't consider that "meddling" but ensuring the GM and HC were both 100% aligned. Again, this could have happened, but that, to me would be an area for him to get involved in. Yes, France/Five Star represent Ray Rice. They have a pretty substantial challenge on that one !!

^ To all above. I'm sorry if I confused the argument along the way, sometimes that happens when you respond to multiple posters who disagree with you but amongst themselves have slightly different POV's. I believe Brandon (in his current post-January 2013) capacity as Pres/CEO SHOULD be INVOLVED in football operations. The exact nature of involvement and the specific role he plays isn't that much of an issue with me and I tried to capture in my last post what I believe that involvement should be. My issue with several posters was whether as Pres/CEO he should be held accountable for the performance of the team and the performance of the football operations. I don't feel he should be immune if there is continued poor performance. I think we are pretty closely aligned on that, although there are posters that continue to feel he shouldn't be accountable even now. I have fervor (as Bandit says) or I'm on a crusade (as others have said) because I believe (and this is where we depart company) that he had culpability prior to January 2013 for the performance of the team that took place in the previous decade. Like I said, I don't want to relitigate that debate, but rather crystalize that's where we seem to have our major disagreement. In other words, you all (those listed above), have essentially given Brandon an almost clean slate with respect to the on the field performance of the football team as of January 2013, and I just can't do that. Said another way, I didn't think it was wrong for Brandon to be in the draft room engaged and working the phones along side Whaley. If that's the involvement he wanted as president/CEO, that's fine. My issue with those images was with HIM SPECIFICALLY being that person in that role and he being involved, because in my mind he represents the decade plus of ineptitude that has existed and shouldn't have been in that role in the first place. I hope this at least puts our areas of agreement / disagreement in clearer focus.

The President of the Bills SHOULD be INVOLVED in football decisions ! Why is that so hard to fathom ? I'm not talking about being a scout or deciding on the draft board, but he damn well better be setting objectives and strategy, allocating resources and helping to create an operating plan for the team. If he isn't, he's not doing his job. To be clear, you can empower your employees to do their jobs, but you NEVER as a good executive disengage from them. Good executives set clear objectives, help set priorities, provide resources, remove barriers and hold people accountable. I don't think there should be any debate on whether or not he's involved, he IS involved and should be involved. To me, the debate centers around whether or not Brandon was involved in the football operations (and therefore responsible and accountable) for the time period PRIOR to January 2013. Does anyone disagree ?

Let's hope for Panther fans it's he pain killers for his ribs and not drugs, alcohol or some head trauma. WOW, he sounded loopy.

I think there is acknowledgement that since Brandon became Prez in Jan 2013 he is responsible and therefore accountable for the performance of the football side of the franchise. I posted earlier, I actually believe the Prez/CEO should be INVOLVED in the football operations, we can debate degree and role he should play and I spelled out my opinion that subject in an earlier post. I think it seems there will always be a disagreement on the role and responsibilities and therefore accountability he bears over the period prior to January 2013 when he was in an executive role with apparently no responsibility or involvement in football operations and therefore no accountability.

They say the cover up is worse than the crime, in this case, it might pretty close as they both are pretty bad !!

I thought both were implied. My issue from get go on Brandon is holding him accountable for what he is responsible for and how well he performs against those responsibilities.

First, I'm glad we (you and I) agree on the post-January accountability. I believe other posters still do not, but, now realize without adding timeframe into my previous post, sent the two of us (at least) done a needless path. I agree to disagree on the pre-January 2013 accountability/responsibility, but have no interest in re-litigating that. Suffice it to say that I believe Brandon is limited in his effectiveness to change culture (please, don't want an endless Jauronimo dialog on "culture") when has been a part of same culture for years himself. Sometimes you need fresh eyes to see what's broken and hot to fix. But, like I said, let' focus on what we do agree on: So, since January 2013: CONS: 1- Renewing the Toronto series (it was an unmitigated failure and should never have been renewed, the idea of "selling" a home game made the team less competitive) 2- The Watkins trade, he should have NEVER signed off or whatever involvement he had, he should have said NO. Giving up a 2015 1st and 4th and our 2014 1st is too steep a price for a WR. Time will tell for sure, but it's been universally panned by national media (please no f*** the national media posts, I know they aren't always right either) 3- The lack of a backup QB plan, Brandon should have stepped in and told Whaley that given EJ's injury history and inconsistent play, they should have went to camp with a better backup plan (I've posted several times about signing Vick, S Hill, McCown, trading for a younger vet etc.) Again, in the end, it might have worked out with Orton, but not the way the team should be operating with the most important position in the game. 4- Only a rumor, but not supporting Marrone in regards to the training staff, if the HC wants to make changes to the training staff, he should have the right to do that and be empowered to make that change 5- More minor things (so, please no posts highlighted these, but they do signal a lack of organizational discipline), i.e. Jills lawsuit, Marrone's health leak, other leaks on FO infighting --- again, these are MINOR but could be signal of something PROS: 1- Suspending the Toronto series for 2014 2- Elevating Whaley to GM (probably was set in motion before by whoever was responsible for hiring him and Nix, I guess Ralph, but Brandon putting Whaley in that role faster was good move, albeit too early to judge Whaley, I do think he's better than Nix) ** I think individual draft picks and personnel moves in general have been encouraging (outside the two I listed), I don't lay blame for instance for Kuonadjo or credit for Henderson because every team has hits/misses and I feel those picks 2nd round and later fall more on Whaley than Brandon, but if the net results of the drafts are positive, I'd list it as a PRO for Brandon, I just think it's too early. It's also too early to grade Marrone or EJ, so, I'll leave them both as neutral. I didn't put running the team profitably on the PRO side, because, to be honest, the last Forbes ranking had the Bills 29th and would have been 32nd (last) without the Toronto game in 2013. So, to be fair, (and I admitted this in another post), I'd put it on the list if he got the team back into the mid-20's, but no PRO for 29th. I'd be curious to see your list. I'm sure I forgot some PRO's ;-)

First, I never said what you suggest I said in your post, but thanks for putting words in my mouth, I was getting hungry anyway ;-) I never said Brandon is scouting players, doing personnel evaluations, timing guys at their pro days etc. etc. What Brandon should be doing if he is an engaged executive is setting clear objectives for each organization that he is responsible for, he should be working with the GM on a strategy, identifying resources, obstacles and helping to create an operating plan. He should be monitoring it and holding people accountable. I NEVER suggested that Brandon SHOULDN'T be involved, I suggest that because he IS involved he should therefore be held accountable for the performance of the organization he is in charge of. The notion that the President of a football team is somehow insulated from responsibility for the on-the-field product baffles me.I thought I even remember Bandit agreeing that RB should be responsible a few months back now that he is Prez/CEO. As President of a team, a corporate division, you have responsibility

It's crazy to criticize Pegula now as owner of the Sabres. He has a clear plan and is executing it almost flawlessly. My only issue with him as owner was that he waited 6 months to long to fire Darcy. As much as I wanted Darcy gone immediately, Pegula did the prudent thing and waited and provide him with unlimited resources to see if that would produce a winner. When it didn't, he should have pulled the trigger sooner. In the end, it worked to the Sabres advantage as Darcy pulled off a miracle trade with the Isles for Vanek !! The other criticism he gets, which is deserved, is that he is not a great communicator, but again, that's not a big issue. I think he's learned lessons from his experiences as Sabres owner and will apply a lot of those with the Bills. Bottom line, I can't think of a better owner for this team.

I give up. I tried to keep this discussion on Todd France. I tried to NOT engage in the Brandon discussion, I wish I would have tried a little harder. I give up trying to convince you that the man who is the Team President and CEO actually really does have some involvement, some responsibility and therefore some accountability for the performance of his organization. A concept you all can't grasp and that continues to puzzle me. I've worked for 4 Fortune 50 companies over the past 25 years and have never seen a President NOT be involved in the operations of the departments he/she is responsible for, but I succumb to each of your "expertise" in this matter and try to move on. You asked me why it matters, well, it matters to me, because I believe people should be held accountable for their performance and when they don't perform to standards, they should be replaced. That's what separates winning cultures from losing ones, unfortunately, a point that is lost in this thread. So, I respectfully ask that we simply agree to disagree and move on to discuss what this thread was started to discuss, the notion of a super agent having influence with the Pegula ownership group. Thanks EDIT: To Bandit, I equally can't understand your fervor to defend Brandon and the performance of the Bills organization.

Bandit, I respect you as a poster, but, COME ON. If you want to argue and debate, diversion is not the way to go. Again, do you have any facts to support your position, or are your facts refuting mine ? As side note: I did get an opportunity to be in the Falcons draft room one year, best experience ever. Oh, and virtually every person in that room was involved

Once again, refute my observations and facts and offer none of your own.I'll keep asking, since you all do it to me, "where are your facts" ?

I'm sure your not a lawyer, but, observations are facts, so, yes, I did post facts. Facts imply he is definitely involved. You, on the other hand, as usual, choose to simply refute my observations instead of posting your own facts.