TXBILLSFAN

Sammy's ceiling is not under his own control, he is (unfortunately for him) linked to the play of the QB and the offensive scheme around him. Last season, he was not great, you can argue the WHY, but the result is the result. I had two big problems with the trade (then and now): 1- Bills did not have QB to get him the ball 2- Last year's draft was DEEP at that position and there wasn't a need to move up The reason it is still a bad trade is that neither 1 or 2 has changed. If Cassel (or other Bills QB) plays well enough for Sammy to be great, then the trade works. But, if the Bills continue with poor QB play and don't get Sammy the ball, he could in his own right be a great player, but won't be a great player for THIS TEAM and the trade will not have made sense. This isn't as much about how good Sammy could be, it's about how good Sammy WILL be on this team with this QB. Again, last year, the results were the results. It's great to know that he was open and our QB sucked (which isn't his fault), but Whaley knew we had a crappy QB when he made trade.

No sure why you have an issue with what I posted. I said I didn't like the trade then, I don't like it now. I want Sammy to be great and prove me wrong. What's your beef ?

I said NO with conviction and disdain last year and have not changed my position. In a DEEP WR draft, there was no need to give up this year's first to get a quality #1 WR. You don't make that trade unless you have a franchise QB and are a WR away from competing. The argument that it was a good trade because the Bills would have taken Ebron makes no sense. It makes Whaley look even more incompetent, "if we didn't make the trade our GM would have made an even worse decision, so it was a good trade ???!!!". Ugh. Think where this team would be with Mosley (who I wanted), or Martin (who several draft pundits slotted to Buffalo)or a hindsight is 20/20 pick like Beckham, Jr AND this year's 19th (or higher) pick ? Having said all that, I like Sammy. I said it last year and still feel that way. If he becomes a perennial all-pro, I'll happily eat my words and say I was wrong. As we sit here today, I am not wrong. Sammy looked good, not great last year. He needs to be great for the trade to make sense.

Back in 1997 and every year since Kelly retired until we found another HoF caliber QB !!

I'm okay with Marshall or Evans, I don't like Colston, I think he's on the downside of his career. Isn't it amazing that we actually NEED another WR ?? After this April's draft, we would have used 2-1's, 1-2 and 2-3's on WR's over a 4-year period and we will still need another one, unbelievable. That's 5 high draft picks over 4 years.

Agree. His best situation is in a place where he doesn't need to be rushed into playing. Dallas and NO would be ideal. He's a really good kid, very likeable and I'd hate to see him end up in a career ruining situation, e.g. NY Jets -- where he'd be thrust into the fire before he's ready

Concussion issues ? NOT TRUE. He had a very mild concussion in K State game, had no symptoms that week and played following Saturday. He will be taken in 2nd round, with 3rd round grade, QB's are always over valued, so, if Bills have interest, they'll need to use their 2nd. I watched every Baylor game the past 2 years and Petty is a gamer, plays hurt, natural leader, great arm strength, good accuracy, mobile. His biggest issues are huge question marks on his ability to play in pro style offense which requires multiple reads, playing under center etc. since he hasn't done that in college system AND he is ultra competitive and can get down on himself, so, I'm concerned he'll have the mental toughness to fail. I think best situation for him is exactly what Mayock said, a team that will let him sit and learn and develop over a 2 year period and won't rush him to start.

Ugh Has it come to this ? Where Richie Incognito's baggage is worth overlooking to bring in his talent, which is mediocre at best ? Sad.

No way do I see any of the NFL QB's mentioned in this thread being made available to the Bills in a trade, Rivers ?, Eli ?, Bradford ?, Cutler ? To me, it's wishful thinking. QB is the most important position and all of those guys, even with their respective flaws are better than what those teams could find elsewhere. The only path the Bills can go on, realistically is to use their 2nd round pick on a college prospect or maybe the CFL route. The Bills should be drafting a QB in 1st or 2nd round going forward until they find a franchise guy. Sad, to be here over 15 years after Kelly retired, but, it is what it is.

Well put Thurman. What's going on here is not a "hindsight is 20/20" witch hunt. The issue at hand is why make the trade in the first place. The information available to the Bills on draft day was that they did NOT have a franchise QB and they were in a draft that all analysts and scouts said was DEEP at the WR position. I think the trade was a reckless attempt by the Bills FO to save their jobs by making a high risk/high reward trade. We've examined two other high profile WR trades (Sea-Harvin and Julio Jones-Atl) and in both those cases the teams involved took a calculated risk to add a "final" piece to a playoff roster, gave up less and both had franchise QB's on roster. Noone is saying Sammy isn't a good player and has potential to be a very god WR, what we are saying is exactly what Thurman wrote above, he is not a 1st and 4th better than the next best option at WR.

Are you trolling ? If you are, congrats, you got me. If not, ask someone else to explain it, because I clearly am not getting through to you.

You're wrong. The Seahawks used 1st, 4th and 7th and end result was they got HARVIN. The Bills used 1st, 1st and 4th and end result was they got Watkins. The Seahawks never used one of their own draft picks to draft Harvin, he was already drafted in a previous year by the Vikings -- so, Hawks gave up 3 picks to acquire Harvin (1, 4 and 7), Bills gave/used 3 picks to acquire Watkins (1, 1 and 4)

?? I'm not following ? Using the Percy Harvin trade as a benchmark --- the Watkins trade would be equivalent to the Bills trading their 2014 1st, 2015 1st and 4th for Harvin.

In your Seattle example, they had Russell Wilson in tow and they DID end up winning a Super Bowl --- AND --- they only traded 1st, 4th and 7th --- Bills parted with 2-1st's and 1 4th -- a BIG difference --- An equivalent trade for Buffalo would have been to trade our 1st, 4th and 7th in 2014 to move up --- and then select Watkins -- I would have been perfectly fine with that scenario

So, the defense of the bad trade is that if we didn't make the trade we would have done something even worse ?? Boy, do we need to raise expectations with our fan base !!

I'd be happy and SURPRISED ! Without a QB, it will be extremely difficult if not impossible for this team to legitimately compete for the Super Bowl. If you don't have a franchise QB, you don't trade future first round picks for anything but a QB, that's just Whaley and Brandon being reckless.

Your expectations are way too low !! This is what 15 years of losing does to a fan base. Happy with 9-7 and no playoffs ? NO WAY ! MAD AS HELL

I'd rather have my 1st and 4th picks this year to fill the holes we have (e.g. OG, TE or make a trade with pick for a decent QB) and still have selected Beckham. As for suffering, the team was once again mediocre and missed the playoffs

The trade was reckless. It was the day of the draft and remains so after this season. Two biggest reasons were well known the day of the draft. No franchise QB on the roster and the draft was DEEP at WR. Not to mention, you don't trade a 1st and 4th and use your own 1st for a WR. I still think this trade was a desperate attempt by Brandon/Whaley to win in 2014 to save their jobs with the new owner. In the end, they didn't win, the trade was proven to be a bad one and they saved their jobs anyway. So, all is well that ends well for Russ and Doug and us fans suffer as a result. UGH !

Marrone will have to pay N.Y. state income tax on the Bills $4M buyout because the amount was earned in NY. The tax laws require you to pay tax based on where you earn the money.

It's not that there is a QB that is a given in this draft, the issue with the Watkins trade is this (at least for me): Until you are confident you have a franchise QB, preserve all your assets and draft picks (especially #1's) those are assets that you should protect in order to use to find the QB. Using our 1st on a WR and giving up an additional 1st and 4th is parting with too many assets to get a #1 WR, especially in a draft that EVERY expert said was deep at WR ! I'd rather the Bills be sitting here with options to use that #1 and #4 as part of a trade or to select another QB prospect Again, I don't want to turn this into a Watkins trade thread. My point is the same, Whaley has done an average job as GM.

True on the QB. But selecting EJ 16th overall was viewed as a reach by most analysts and so far, it is being proven as such. Trading 2015 1st and 4th for Sammy handcuffs Bills from selecting a QB in this draft. Like I said, I think objectively, most would grade Whaley as average GM. That's better than a lot we've had before. But, if you recall, the only time we ever made Super Bowl was when we had a GREAT GM. Average will not get us there !

Yes. If Marrone's poor coaching made the offensive players look worse than they are, than Whaley looks better as offense improves (which will be necessary for team to win 11). Right now, it looks like Whaley made mistakes with O Line, over paid for Watkins, didn't draft/get a decent QB -- To me, the only way this team gets to 11 wins is by getting better QB play. I think that means a new QB.

My biggest concern is that most Bills fans don't realize that if you want to be the best, i.e. in the Top 6-8 teams in league, your organization has to be in the top 6-8 in the league Your HC, your GM, your VP Football etc. I don't think we are there, yet. I think Whaley is good talent evaluator, but has made a few bad moves, overall, some positives, some negatives I think Bills are basically what there record says, AVERAGE. which is an improvement, but, not what's needed to get to the top 6-8 teams

I wanted to emphasize another point, to build the BEST team (FO in this case), the Bills have to hire the BEST people. Sounds simple, but it isn't. We have to ask ourselves, have the Bills had the BEST people in the key positions in the FO ?? Again, 31 other teams chasing the same objective, you want to beat them, be BETTER than them !!