BADOLBILZ
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Posts posted by BADOLBILZ
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16 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:
Buffalo Bills
1 (17). Brian Thomas Jr., WR, LSU
2 (60). Cole Bishop, S, Utah
4 (128). Javon Baker, WR, UCF
5 (160). Beaux Limmer, G/C, Arkansas
5 (163). Nelson Ceaser III, Edge, Houston
6 (200). Tyler Davis, DT, Clemson
6 (204). Ethan Driskell, OT, Marshall
7 (248). Kimani Vidal, RB, Troyhe has Jax take Kool Aid MMcKinistry at 28 with Buffalo's original pick....and then Troy Franklin in the second.
The positional break down looks right but I'd rather see a CB than a safety. Using a second round pick on a safety in a mediocre safety draft would not be ideal from the positional standpoint. You can draft and develop safeties from all over the board and they are a dime a dozen in free agency. Be pretty dumb to take an "ok" prospect safety at 60, IMO. Two outside WR and two OL would be very logical for this draft class.
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10 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:
Hill has back to back seasons of 119 catches and 1700+ with crap at QB in Miami. He is perfectly suited to the modern game and the lack of physicality in coverage. He is one of a few guys who in the 90s would have hardly stuck in the league as a a gadget guy if at all but today he is as elite as it gets at the game's second most important position. These guys show that the game has changed more than many fans care to admit IMO.
I'm not disputing that Hill isn't great now. But he wasn't great before Mahomes. Those guys were losing at home in the playoffs to the likes of Mike Mularkey and Marcus Mariotta despite having a QB who was considered a top 10-12 QB in the league at the very least. They didn't have "IT" until Mahomes arrived.
The Chiefs stuck with Hill thru a period of his life when he was liable to punch a pregnant women in the stomach or break his sons arm. He could have easily washed out of the league if he were with other less-tolerant franchises or had even just had his career disrupted by suspensions or trades earlier in his development to places he didn't fit. A LOT had to go right to get Hill to the past two seasons. Even then, there is the feeling that he could Antonio-Brown himself out of the league at any minute because he is still always a person of interest in some legal matter.
If Hill never plays another down do the pro football writer's ever vote him into the HOF? No. We can say that with certainty. 10K yards is a long way from the bar as an accumulator nowadays. And don't forget, he's not a 3 time SB winner. He left KC and the team won 2 SB's.
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38 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:
I won't speak for Reid, but Kelce was averaging almost 1000yards a season w Alex Smith...Hill has two absolutely elite seasons in Miami w Tua post KC...the argument that they aren't two all time greats w/out Mahomes doesn't hold water
We will have to agree to disagree. If the Chiefs don't get to Mahomes and Reid gets fired after blowing that 18 point lead at home to Mike Mularkey and Marcus Mariotta then who knows which way the Kelce/Hill careers go. They weren't moving the needle. I mean, it's false to claim that the Chiefs were seen as loaded with playmakers before Mahomes arrived. They signed Watkins because even the Chiefs didn't think they had a WR1. Mahomes changed the perspective on Kelce, Hill and Reid. He made a lot of Chiefs players household names.
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39 minutes ago, julian said:
You’re arguing that Andy Reid isn’t an excellent HC , a HOF HC who’s light years ahead of McDermott, which was the point I made with my original response to the question about the picture, it was in fun, but nothing I said wasn’t true.
I made a factual statement, Mahomes lucked his way into 2 HOF pass catchers and a HOF offensive HC, while Allen lucked into McDermott.
I’ll stand by that.
You are serious, I can tell lol, there’s no reasoning with this take my goodness lol
if people actually believe Mahomes hasn’t benefited from a great situation compared to what Allen was blessed with.. There’s nothing else to say lol
It's not "factual"........because it wasn't "luck".
Mahomes made it possible. Without a truly great QB, Kelce and Hill are more likely to have finished in the Hall of "Good" along with a guy like Eric Moulds who has never really sniffed the HOF.
Pre-Mahomes Andy Reid was 11-13 career in the playoffs and 1-4 in conference championship games. Then he got upset WITH Mahomes in his first title game. Obviously Reid is the only HC to blow an 18 point lead or greater in the playoffs more than once. And he did it thrice!
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1 hour ago, julian said:
This dude lucked into 2 future HOF pass catchers and a HOF offensive HC
You got it backwards. They were good without Mahomes. They became great because of Mahomes. Nobody was saying HOF with regard to those guys before Mahomes got there.
Not even Andy Reid........who was one of the great choke artists in playoff history. He had blown a 28 point lead and an 18 point lead in the playoffs as Chiefs HC. (In fact, he owns 3 of the 4 biggest blown leads in Chiefs 65 year history and all were in the playoffs). His time was running out in KC before Mahomes arrived and changed the narrative.
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43 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:
I am not doubting you, and I'm positive that you know how little regard in which I hold McDermott, but why on Earth would he make a trade (for which he got little return imo) to help Reid, this in his first year here? Is he even worse than I thought?
Relationships make deals happen. I'm not sure they make that trade with any other team in the AFC if that team is picking 27th(meaning they are good). If you are going to help an AFC rival out you better be getting the best of the exchange........and even at the time it seemed like at best a discount.
But again, new regimes are also brimming with confidence in themselves and often end up getting taken to the cleaners in personnel swaps. It's the first place to look if you are a contender looking to make a one-sided deal.
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2 hours ago, FireChans said:
Meh, I agree with a lot of what you said, but the stories of most of those players’ careers just hadn’t been written yet.
Sammy was probably regarded as better WR talent than Tyreek in 2017, but today it’s not close. Ditto with Dareus and Chris Jones. And Charles Clay and Kelce.
Maybe all those dudes reach different heights if the circumstances were different but I doubt it. Sammy was a nutcase, Dareus preferred eating to playing, and Charles Clay’s knees were disintegrating before our eyes. And Sammy was unsalvageable by McVay and Reid.
I agree back then it wasn’t some gigantic talent gap though.
Point is..........the 2017 Chiefs weren't even close to being in a Super Bowl like those Dolphins. They were the 4th seed at 10-6 and had actually lost to 9-7 Buffalo at home that season. They had been nothing more than an easy-out in the playoffs each year when lead by Andy Reid.......a HC with 0 SB wins and a history of choking and poor game management. Don Shula was the antithesis of Andy Reid at that point.
But history is written by the winners.
When the Bills played the Chiefs in 2017 Kelce and Tyreek didn't do anything that day. Their stories hadn't been written yet because the outcome was very much in doubt to that point. Alex Smith.........a very good bridge QB.......just couldn't get the ball to them against a decent Bills secondary. It took an elite QB to elevate that roster. They pursued Sammy Watkins because despite good statistics........what they had in Kelce and Hill hadn't proven to be nearly enough.
Generational QB's and winning cultures DRASTICALLY change careers.
I look at guys like Aaron School and Kyle Williams with the Bills. If either are on a dynastic team their careers might have become HOF worthy. Schobel probably plays another 5 years. The losing not only created a lack of opportunity but it created a disincentive to push for individual greatness. Put Chris Jones or Tyreek Hill on those drought Bills and who knows what happens. They were "just guys" in college. Couldn't pick 2 more perfect examples.
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6 minutes ago, FireChans said:
It’s doubly painful that the Bills traded him to a team that was 10 steps ahead of the Bills from a talent standpoint at the time. Jones, Kelce and Hill, their cornerstone HoFers were all there. I think they’ve still out done us in personnel but the gap shrank considerably just by virtue of standard NFL erosion and different team building timelines.
It’s like if the Dolphins traded us Marino while we had Reed, Thurman and Bruce already on the roster as a perennial playoff team.
Even if Mahomes is in the NFC, on a team like the Saints, maybe he still stands in our way in the SB but it would feel much more like an all-time rivalry. Allen V Mahomes in the final game of the year. And with a Dennis Allen or Sean Payton and that roster, we would have the edge on personnel.
Ultimately, we birthed the generational dynasty. Much like the Jets did when they knocked out Drew Bledsoe (and they still are miserable about it.)
And this graphic is pain.
I think you are forgetting that the Dolphins were the AFC's best team already when they got Marino. And they had Shula, who was then considered possibly the greatest coach of all-time. They had just reached the SB with Strock and Woodley as their QB's.
The 2016 Chiefs were ahead of the Bills.........but by a slimmer margin than some may recall. The teams had been closely bunched talent-wise in the years prior to McBeane tearing the Bills roster down in 2017. Those Bills/Chiefs games were closely contested and often ended up separating the playoff team from the non-playoff team during Marrone/Rex years.
But yes, ultimately the Bills ended up birthing a Chiefs dynasty. Probably because McDermott felt inclined to help his buddy Andy. That could have been the result in the 1980's with Marino though too.
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21 hours ago, dave mcbride said:
It appears that despite the numbers being thrown around, no WR is getting close to $30 million per, at least yet. From Florio, who is good on this sort of issue (althoug certainly not every type of issue): https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/top-receiver-deals-definitely-arent-what-they-seem-to-be.
Yeah as I said elsewhere, there hasn't been a proven elite WR in their prime to sign a deal since Davante Adams and then Tyreek. When Jefferson hits the market, he will re-set it.
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1 hour ago, FireChans said:
Curse of the Bambino.
ARod’s journalism career is really taking off.
Actually, the curse of the Bambino wasn't a one man heist like this was. The forgotten story is that the Yankees actually stole the Red Sox brain trust and a lot of other really good players in the next few seasons and didn't turn into a dynasty in earnest until they had pretty much picked the Red Sox bones clean. It would be like if the Bills got Brady and THEN took Belichick and Scarnecchia and Gronk and a bunch of other key players. That gutting, combined with a Red Sox owner that was more interested in other things than baseball doomed the Red Sox to decades of losing.
I used to draw the comparison to the Bills passing on Marino for Kelly and then watching Marino quickly have the greatest single season of any QB ever and reach a SB while Kelly was off playing in another league altogether. They essentially gift wrapped Marino to their biggest rival by not selecting him.........so very similar. The only hope was that when Allen caught up the Bills would "out-personnel" the Chiefs the way the Bills did with the Dolphins(despite the Fish having the greatest HC of his time and the better passer). Unfortunately, the Chiefs have done a good job with personnel to stay one step ahead of the Bills the whole time.
This situation is just so unique.........having a draft pick you traded away prevent you from probably winning 2 SB's. Much of the league's fans don't see it that way because the Bills are bowing out of the playoffs early........but that's what's happened. They probably win 2 of the last 3 at least without Mahomes in the way.
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15 minutes ago, MiracleAtRich1393 said:
I'd do DK for a second rounder in a heartbeat but why would Seattle take a $36mil dead cap hit this year for a 2nd rounder? Are they looking to offload him?
The rationale is explained in the article. Basically new regime, new priorities. Those situations are often ripe for the plucking by established organizations. They all want their own guys and are brimming with confidence in their own decision making. See the Bills trading the #10 pick to the Chiefs back in 2017.........even though, on paper, they themselves were desperate for a QB. Patriots, Rams, Eagles and Jaguars also bolstered their rosters for longer playoff runs by picking from the Bills roster as well. Similar thing happened when the 2000 team got broken up when Donahoe took over.
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24 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:
People are all over the place with him. I've heard everything from a superb route runner to a terrible route runner. Can play outside but some say only slot. @GunnerBill @BADOLBILZ What's your opinion of him and what round grade do you have on him?
I see him as a 3rd rounder. But I'm about boundary receivers in this draft and I don't really see him as one of those.
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1 minute ago, FireChans said:
Yup. The days of Bills fans dreaming for a 20 year reign of terror with 10 SB appearances is long dead.
We gotta try to build up the rest of the roster to sneak one or two if Pat twists his ankle.
Yeah and one other disservice of the drought was that a lot of Bills fans didn't follow the league as closely during it and don't have a good frame of reference.
Prime Roethlisberger and Rodgers were much more physically gifted than Tom Brady. It wasn't even close. They were supposed to own the league. Goodell literally changed the way the sport is played to protect those 2 golden boys because they wouldn't conform to the Brady/Brees/Manning style of existing solely as pocket passers. And despite having the league shaped to their preference they still only won 3 combined SB's.........and one was at the expense of the other. At least Pittsburgh had the excuse of having lost 3 conference title games(2 with Ben R) to Tom Brady.
The Packers fell short of reaching SB's because they consistently failed to put enough receiving talent around Aaron Rodgers. By the time they finally decided to invest capital in WR talent, Rodgers was 39 and had one foot out the door and the other on a banana peel.
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1 hour ago, FireChans said:
Yes it was a second for Hardman and a third and 6th for Toney.
That’s why I keep asking @Alphadawg7 what strategy he thinks works. The only fool-proof strategy to be a consistent SB winner is to acquire the greatest QB of the generation and pair him with one of the greatest coaches of the generation. Then it doesn’t matter what you do.
Nothing else works.
Yeah the reality when you have a Josh Allen type instead of a Brady/Mahomes(whose primary purpose in life is to win 7-8 SB's) is that you gotta' build like you are trying to beat THE REST of the league and hope that the tournament falls in your favor.
That's how the Rams got their SB win 3 years ago. That's how the Steelers made 3 trips to the SB and won 2 during the Brady era even though the Patriots OWNED Cowher/Roethlisberger/Tomlin in the playoffs.
All the more reason to stack high end receiving talent around Allen and try to give him the longest career possible so that he can continue his passive training approach to the offseasons and still play long enough to win a SB or two even if Mahomes continues to be focused/obsessed with overtaking Brady as the GOAT.
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45 minutes ago, Beck Water said:
There were a number of folks here - IIRC I think @BADOLBILZ was one - who were salty over trading up to Cody Ford in the 2nd when DK Metcalf was still on the board.
Though, if we're playing 2019 Draft "do over", I call dibs on AJ Brown.
Yeah AJ Brown has separated from Metcalf but DK is still really good. If they could get him for a second round pick...........that would be a great get, IMO. If the draft were to go the way the mock community expects then the part of the WR group that drops way off by 60 is definitely the boundary WR. DK is a legit boundary option and he's been a better player in the playoffs than the regular season. Likely because of his physicality. Good fit for late season games in Highmark stadium, IMO.
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1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:
I don't think the Bills dumped a big contract to sign up for another. Probably looking to get cheaper at the position.
They didn't dump Diggs because of the contract. They dumped him IN SPITE of the contract. His attitude and declining play were the top 2 factors.
I don't think they want another big contract at ANY position. But I suspect that's a fluid situation depending on the player.
I don't think guys like Aiyuk and Higgins would be appealing enough to pay $30M aav. They have never been the primary option for the good iterations of their current teams but will command contracts that might look like 80%-90% of Justin Jefferson value.
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14 hours ago, Estro said:
That coupled with cover 1s take all off season that there was no way the Bills could afford to trade or cut Diggs.
Sal Cappaccio was very much in the same boat this offseason. Dismissed any mention of the murmurs that the Bills might be open to moving off Diggs. Then post trade, he's kind of acted like he was surprised but did leave the door open to it being possible, which isn't true at all.
I have no issue with people having a take that turns out to be completely wrong, but just own up to it, and say you got it wrong. Don't try to bend what you've been saying all offseason to minimize how wrong you were
Shill Capaccio is the worst about that stuff.
14 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:To be fair i don’t think anyone was expecting the Bills to trade Diggs over the financials. People are wrong sometimes. It’s ok
What rock were you under all offseason? Everyone outside of Buffalo thought the Bills were trying to move Diggs. The Bills give the local media exactly ZERO insight into what they are doing/thinking.
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59 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:
I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt he goes to jail. Seems like a Marshawn Lynch sort of thing (although I realize there are differences in the cases), and nothing happened to him after his vehicular mishap except getting traded and subsequently becoming an NFL legend.
Perhaps, but this was a lot more brazen than what Lynch did. Lynch didn't even own up to driving he car to my knowledge and there was no video. It was a glancing blow and not a lot of other proof other than the accounts of some people who were also presumably out boozing. This was an outright wreck of cars in broad daylight that he admitted to causing with supporting video of it and him fleeing the scene and phone record of him calling the rental car company to tell them he wrecked the car as he was walking away. They know for a fact where he was at before the accident (bar) and he admitted driving. Up to 8 felony counts. There is a lot more there for the legal system to work with than the Lynch case.
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Ultimately, as I see it, the problem with these arguments that @Alphadawg7 and others are making about either not needing a great WR or "trading up for a stud WR never works" is that there just isn't much context.
It's derivative of the argument that teams with league leading rushers never win the SB anymore..............when that used to be fairly common.............that was a legitimate proof of change in the league. And the flip side of that is that teams with superstars at other positions do win SB's on the regular.
You can identify the other side of the argument.
You can't identify the other side of the argument with these WR narratives that are being created.
Trading up OR trading back in a draft for anything other than a QB rarely moves the needle to "SB winner" for a franchise.
The league changed in 2010. By 2018 when the Bills were able to get Josh Allen with pick #7 an influx of QB talent had begun. Young athletes were being steered into passing game positions. No longer were there just 3-5 teams that had an incredibly talented QB option. At the same time, WR talent was following suit. What's happened, in general, is that the arms race has shifted from QB to WR. To even reach the SB in this era of relative abundance of QB talent you pretty much need 2 stud receiving targets. Even the Pats had Gronk and Edelman. The Chiefs second options the last 2 years had nearly 1,000 yards receiving in the regular season. And those are the closest things to exceptions. Most that reach the SB have greater talents.
I just don't think there is a definitive argument about which is the way to get them. And we're just pretending there is by creating these narratives that don't really tell us much.
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4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:
You're right. There isn't anything subjective about it. It's dead wrong.
Again, you're right that Rashee Rice was the #1 WR for that particular team, but for a team whose number two WR managed less than 500 yards, this is not a significant accomplishment. It simply shows they didn't have a true #1 on the team, or anything close.
Hell, if being the best WR on your particular team makes you a WR1, then BADOL's WR1 list has to include Marquise Brown in Arizona, because his 574 yards led that team. Drake London is a #1 by that measure, and Jerry Jeudy. Jayden Reed led his WR group, he must be a #1 also. DeMario Douglas beat out all the other Pats receivers with more than 500 yards. By your reasoning here, he must be a #1 also. And Darius Slayton. Strong group of #1s you've got there, Badol.
Rice simply wasn't productive enough to be considered a #1.
And you can go on kidding yourself about the playoffs if you must, but a total over four games of 65 yards per game, two fumbles they were lucky enough to recover and 1 TD isn't anything faintly like "huge," as, you claim, not even in the same zip code. It is a very solid and decent total, but solid and decent doesn't make you a #1.
Could he be headed in that direction? Yeah, sure, it's very possible. He had a really good year for a rookie. Not a #1 yet, though. The idea's ridiculous.
Hopefully the direction he's headed in is incarceration. What he did warrants it. So whether he is a WR1 in the future or not, who knows, lot's of WR's have outstanding starts and flame out. But yes, he filled that WR1 role more than adequately for KC as a rookie. People act like they had no receivers the past 2 seasons but they had at least 2 pass catchers in the top 32 in production.......something only a handful of other teams could say(obviously)..........and in each case they were extremely high efficiency players and made a big impact for them in the playoffs.
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9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:
One caveat.
Torell Troup was not a bad draft pick. Read this article. He was starting to really play well at training camp that year, and lots of Bills players were and are very vocal about that.
He injured his back and was advised to use painkillers and keep playing. This article is a harrowing but excellent read:
"Through the 2011 lockout, Troup trained with a vengeance. He reported to training camp at a chiseled 319 pounds, eager to break out. Practices began at St. John Fisher and the kid who had 23 tackles and no sacks the year prior was dominant for stretches.
“'Honestly, I was killing the offensive line,' Troup said. 'Eric Wood, I’m good friends with him, but they couldn’t handle me.'
"One day in the lunchroom, head coach Chan Gailey and General Manager Buddy Nix couldn’t contain their excitement. The two asked Troup to sit down with them and told this bull in a china shop they had no clue what he did over the offseason, but, wow, were they ecstatic to see this all transfer to game day.
"Their words added more fuel to Troup’s fire. His tear continued. Teammates today still remember Troup’s raw strength.
"'Low center of gravity,' guard Kraig Urbik said. 'Super strong. Legs were very thick. Strong dude – he was tough to move for sure.'
“'He was a strong dude,' Wood said.
“'Big, powerful guy,' added veteran Kyle Williams. 'He’s probably not your pass rusher, but a guy who could stack things up at the line and make plays at the line of scrimmage and do some good things there.'
... but a bit later ...
"Then, without warning, his world started to crumble down.
"In a one-on-one pass rushing drill against Wood, Troup used a head bob to freeze the center. He smacked Wood with his right arm and Troup’s hand snapped, breaking the bone underneath his right knuckle. Initially, Troup thought he jammed the finger. By the time he reached the trainers he said his hand looked like a baseball glove.
"Troup missed one week of practice, wrapped the paw in a club and was prepared to punctuate his knockout summer in the preseason finale against Detroit. To this day, he cannot pinpoint the play, the moment, but during this game he fractured his lower back.
“'I played all through the game doped up,' he said, 'so I couldn’t feel it.'
"On Wednesday, it felt like he pulled both hamstrings. He received an epidural. Tests later revealed the fracture. A disc in his back was slipping and pushing against nerves, causing burning and numbness down his legs.
"Troup sat out the first three weeks of the season and returned.
“ 'It’s easy to look back now and say, "I should have sat my ass down," ’ Troup said. 'But I was young. I was stupid. And it cost me my career.'
... and still later ...
"When Gronkowski was scoring more touchdowns than any tight end ever in 2011, Troup was, as he said, 'all doped up' on Toradol to survive Sundays. During the week, he chugged pain pills like Tic Tacs. Troup played that season with a fractured back – his disc slipping, jamming into nerves – enduring the most unthinkable pain he doesn’t wish upon his worst enemies.
Teammates told him to quit. Coaches, he claims, told him to play. So he played to the literal point of tears and the subsequent L4/L5 spinal fusion ended his career.
"He’s more casualty of a ruthless business than bust. More commodity chewed up and spit out by the NFL than outright failure. Each creak of a joint in the a.m. is his aching reminder of his season from hell.
“ 'They saw the pain that I was in, man,' Troup said. 'Being who I am, all I wanted to do was do what I was told. I never thought about talking back or saying I don’t want to play. No matter how much pain I was in, if they wanted me to play, I played. It went to where I couldn’t play no more.' ”
That was only about 20 - 30% of the Tyler Dunne article. Hell of an article, and if you don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for Troup after reading it, you're tougher than I am.
Yeah, he was a bad draft pick. And done for the wrong reasons, a deep reach to address a specific need at a non-premium position. 6'3" 310 wasn't even a good size for a true 3-4 NT. If you are using that high of a pick on a NT-only he better be a monster like Ted Washington.
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8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:
"Rashee Rice is actually WR1?" Now?
Sorry, that's utter ridiculousness. When you get 938 yards with Pat Mahomes throwing to you, you're not a WR1.
Gabe Davis in his third year equalled Rice's TDs and was only 100 yards below him. Was anyone saying Davis was only 100 yards shy of a WR1 at the time? No, and for good reason. The kind of stats Rice put up - again, with Pat Mahomes throwing to him - are NOT WR1 stats. And not particularly close.
Rice "was huge for them in the playoffs,"| you say? Um, yeah? 262 yards (65.5 YPG over four games), 2 fumbles and 1 TD, and two runs for five yards, all in four games is "huge"? I think your idea of "huge" is significantly different from most. They were lucky to get both of those fumbles back or the story would have been much different. He was good in the playoffs. Not "huge," and not particularly close to "huge."
I guess you could say he was the #1 WR on the Kansas City Chiefs. Not that big a deal, though, when you see that the #2 WR on the Kansas City Chiefs, Justin Watson, put up all of 460 yards.
Now, is Rice a possible future #1? Yeah, he absolutely is. Hard to say how that will go, but there's a reasonable chance he reaches that level, possibly even this year, though the car crash case makes everything much less certain.
You're right he doesn't have to be 'elite.' He also didn't have to be a #1. He wasn't and they won a Lombardi.
Yes, the Chiefs brought in Rice, at pick 55, last year, and Skyy Moore at pick 54 the year before. And yes, they brought in Toney, but let's not pretend he was considered a sure thing. Sure things don't traded that early in their career. He was thought to be a guy who had a decent chance to be good if things went better for him in a new environment.
Toney put up 420 yards in his first year with the Giants and played in two games in the first half of his second year before being traded. Then 171 yards in KC in his second season.
The Chiefs brought in Rice, a solid guy, quite good for a rookie, at #55. And they won a Lombardi.
Rice playing like a WR1 for KC was just fact.......there isn't anything subjective about it.........he followed the typical path of young star receivers by getting much better as the season went on and despite a more typical rookie slow start he literally finished 28th in receiving yards amongst NFL WR and then played well in the playoffs continuing to catch nearly 80% of his targets and averaging more yards per game than he did over the course of the regular season.
Whether you approach it from how he was trending or just sheer production over high volume over the course of a full season, it's the same conclusion. Not elite, but a WR1 for that team and greater production than a number of teams got from any of their actual WR's.
That he played with Patrick Mahomes doesn't change what he was..........anymore than Stefon Diggs not being an All Pro in Minnesota changes that he was one in Buffalo.
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1 hour ago, Beck Water said:
I don't disagree with the overall point of your post, but it's worth noting that when the Bills broke the drought and only had one (1) 1st or 2nd rounder from prior drafts on the field (in fact, many players from any round prior drafts), it was in large part because Beane and McDermott cleaned house, arguably trading away guys who could play but who weren't "their kind of guys".
Guys they swept out the door included Marcell Dareus (who was on the field for JAX), Reggie Ragland (played 3 years for KC, won a Superbowl with them), Ronald Darby (still playing, last season for BAL), Sammy Watkins (6 more seasons), Cyrus Kouandijo (2 seasons for DEN), Bobby Trees (still playing, won a SB with LAR), Stephon Gilmore (still playing)
So if your point is, the Bills drafting was so horrid that none of their guys could play - while there was a long stretch of horrid picks like Aaron Maybin and Torrell Troup, there was also a fair bit of talent. The problem is, we either moved on from it for nothing (Gilmore, Bobby Trees, Andy Levitre), or just failed to develop it properly in what seems to have been a 'dysfunction junction' environment.(it's a bit of a nit, but Eric Wood, our 2009 1st round pick, was on the field for the JAX playoff 100% of the snaps. Shaq Lawson our 2016 1st round pick, and Cordy Glenn, our 2012 2nd round pick, were both on the team, but IR'd)
You are confused about the point. The Bills CLEARLY didn't draft "horrid" in rounds 1 and 2 during the drought.
Criticize their roster construction but not so much the talent of the players.
Marshawn Lynch is a borderline HOF'er. Steph Gilmore won NFLDPOY. Nate Clements was briefly the highest paid CB in the NFL. Aaron Schobel was a stud pass rusher. Dareus was an All Pro. Robert Woods was a star. Jairus Byrd was an All Pro. Andy Levitre got a huge second contract. Lee Evans was a excellent. Sammy Watkins got a massive second contract from the Chiefs. Willis McGahee rushed for nearly 10,000 yards. Even Lil' Donte Whitner played in 3 pro bowls.
They picked enough good players in rounds 1 and 2. That wasn't the problem.
All that draft capital expended and just 1 player(Wood) out of a whopping 38 1st and 2nd round opportunities(37 picks and the 1st traded for Bledsoe) over 17 drafts made a contribution remotely commensurate to the Bills investment in them in the season where they finally got back to the playoffs.
Again..........the hit rate for any position in the first 2 rounds is much lower than the casual draft fan realizes. And still, even the minuscule amount the Bills had to show didn't even preclude them from being competitive enough to reach the playoffs.
I think there are some clear do's and don'ts with early round picks but neither trading up nor trading back is proven as the smarter play. Doesn't really move the needle much financially either, which is a huge component in NFL decisions.
The only argument for trading back is more opportunities should provide more rolls of the dice............but the argument against trading back is that your chances of "hitting" drop notably as you move back.
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On 3/29/2024 at 1:22 AM, US Egg said:
Orioles drafted quite well. Going from 100 losses to 100 wins in 3 seasons is…..unprecedented?
The O's are the latest to try to copy the Astros tanking model. It's not hard to get into contention that way but it's a lot harder to sustain momentum than it would seem it should be. Cubs did it, won a WS by the skin of their teeth and then quickly faded back into mediocrity and their stars fell to earth and changed teams. The Blue Jays were supposed to be owning the AL by now after their 2017-2019 tanking yielded a team full of sons of former HOF/star players.
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Dane Bruglers 7 Round Mock
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Sounds reasonable.