PDaDdy

NEVER said you can't be effective with an average to weak arm. Man, people just don't get it.

I've never moved my marker one bit. I have said from the start Trent doesn't have a big arm. Yes Cutler and Russell are rare. I'M saying he doesn't have an arm as strong as Jason Campbell, Travaris Jackson, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, etc. Brady doesn't have a huge arm by the way either but he is obviously effective. I'll trust what I see on game day and what people say about him now that he is in the NFL over predraft reports. When I make an assessment of Trent not having a big time arm your retort is to compare him to the elite of the elite and argue his effectiveness. You're defending a point I am not attacking. It's takin' you a while to realize it but this is what I was saying from the start. I've never wavered from this. YOU tried to take my point elsewhere! A WR doesn't have to have 4.3 speed in today's game to be successful but it sure as hell don't hurt. They just have to play the game differently than a guy with more speed. They do however lack the dimension of being able to be successful using speed. Edwards lacks the dimension of being able to beat you ALSO with arm strength that many other QBs possess.

You DO realize that Lee doesn't only run go routes right? Do do also realize that a rainbow can still beat a defense deep if the WR is wide open right? Our point is he doesn't have a strong arm!

Quite the opposite. I think he under does it. I don't recall Lee Evans getting over thrown but I do recall seeing him get under thrown. Did I miss something?

How do you explain always under throwing the WR? He can throw a deep ball if he bounces it off the stratosphere and it takes forever to get there. It is nit picking but have we seen Trent hit the deep post pattern? Hitting guys deep down the middle of the field who have a safety over the top requires velocity on the ball not a perfectly timed arcing pass. Again nit picking, but did you watch the same game? Trent threw a great arcing ball to TO that he dropped. The other pass to Owens and the TWO passes to Evans were NOT on time. His WR made good plays. I know he can't be perfect every pass but lets be honest about those passes. Uh...tell that to every NFL scout and GM in the league that highly value big arm QBs but will make exceptions for guys that can still be effective without an arm in the top half of the league. Why is that? Because you know his arm strength may become more of an issue in inclement weather with those swirling winds at the Ralph? When I see a scouting report saying Trent has a big time NFL arm ...I'LL BELIEVE YOU!!! Funny how two people can see the same thing and come up with vastly different conclusions. I guess I missed the praise for Edwards big arm and deep threat capability during every single game of his I've seen. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence but I assume you know the difference between what are commonly called a "laser" pass and a "rainbow"? I'm not saying Trent can't heave a rainbow up there and get the ball 40 yards in the air. He can do that. I'm sure you have an understanding of trajectory and velocity and that it takes longer for a rainbow to reach its destination. This also gives CBs and Ss time to reach their destination and break up the play. This is where people respond with the timing argument. Yes if Trent makes up his mind early enough and trusts his WR will beat the defender to the spot he can be just as effective as a guy with a big time NFL arm. Trent is still working on this. I get your argument but please don't try to tell me he has a strong arm. Again, show me the scouting reports!

I love it so far! All I was saying was is that taking a few more chances and coming up with a few more TDs is ok even if it means a few more interceptions. I guess I like gunslingers a little bit. As we all know Farve has the NFL record for TDs but also interceptions. He's done pretty well. Imagine a modest stat line like this for Trent if he gambled a little bit more, 7 Tds 3 int. 21 more points on the board and 2 more turnovers which may or may not lead to any points. I could live with that. It's generally considered bad QB play but the really good gun slingers seem to turn that almost sack into a completion or a miracle TD. Perhaps it could mean even fewer sacks by throwing the ball up there and letting his WRs make a play. Pure speculation of course, but just sayin'.

WRONG... If people pose the question based on in game observations...there is one. True...but he is not in the upper half of arm strength in the NFL imho. Perhaps because he was our only real deep threat prior to Terrell Owen's signing on a team with a QB that almost NEVER threw deep. Just sayin' ABSOLUTELY!!!!

+1 on Marshawn. I hope it doesn't take him long if at all to get in sync with these new guys under live conditions.

Not to introduce some cold reality but they weren't perfect. Well, the one to TO was. Both balls to Evans were late in my opinion. Trent tends to wait until a WR is pretty much wide open which is often too late. He doesn't have the arm strength of say a Jay Cutler to get that ball there in a heart beat and make up for the late decisions. Trent needs to learn to trust his WR and throw the ball early. Give his guys a chance to catch the ball clean instead of having to "make a play" on it. He'll throw a few more interceptions but he'll also throw more TDs and long completions. Preventing turnovers is important but I look at it like this as far as a QBs stat line: EVERY TD = 6pts EVERY INT = ? I'll take some guaranteed points on the board over a few turn overs that may or may not result in a TD, a field goal or nothing at all. He's learning I guess.

It was a half way decent rainbow. Hey! If he's lucky maybe he'll have 10 or 20 for his career!!!! LOL. I've been hard on Trent but he played a pretty decent game against Tampa. Unnecessary sacks and missed deep ball over the middle for the INT aside.

This is a bold statement. I think the cover 2 might be the best defense to try to SLOW DOWN New Orleans. It is HIGHLY unlikely that we will stop them. I haven't watched every NO game this year and last but it seems to me that they light up the scoreboard with down field throws and good running. The cover 2 is designed to prevent the deep ball. If we can keep them throwing underneath and come up with some big plays in the running game we have a shot. On offense as I have stated, I think we need to do what we need to do to score point. Play clock be damned. I also worry that if we slow down the no huddle we will expose our young line to substitutions, complex defensive shifts and scheming. In my opinion we are all thinking of the early 90's no huddle that scored SO quickly that the defense could get tired. We are running the no huddle but we aren't scoring nearly as quickly!!! In my opinion the no huddle doesn't have a huge impact on the time of possession. If we run 60 plays and save 5 seconds a play by not huddling we lose a grand total of 2 minutes (120 sec) in time of possession. I don't think that is going to make the difference in winning or losing. If we get behind by a few TDs and have to throw every down we will lose the time of possession battle MUCH more quickly. THAT is what I am worried about. Keep NO throwing and running short to prevent them from racking up too many points too early so that we can still run the ball!

+1 but I wouldn't waste too much time. The no huddle is only effective at a minimum pace. It doesn't have to be hurry up pace but fast enough to tire our defenders and prevent substitutions.

One of the post game reports spoke to how BOTH TO and Lee Evans were getting double teamed on the same play down field sometimes. That ties up 4 DBs on 2 WR(Running total 4). Defenses rush a base 4 lineman(Running total 8). That leaves 3 of 11 defenders to cover everyone else. Our RB, 3rd WR and TE now have single coverage against LBs and nickel or dime package DBs...WITH NO BLITZ!! Send another guy at Trent and now Lee or Terrell are single covered or someone isn't covered at all. Sound familiar???? I offer that up as a possible explanation for why Fred Jackson, Josh Reed and the TE's were SO instrumental at several points in the game. AVP saw who was getting favorable match ups and WORKED EM!!! I get the feeling that the right play is being called at the right time MUCH MUCH more often than I did with The Turk. Like the car salesman says on local tv...THAT'S HUGE-A! ... That my man, is the TO effect. Effectively exploited by AVP and executed by Trent I might add I too believe that this line will get better. Neither of us are going out on a limb by saying that. Second year starter and 2 rookies that have all of 2 games a piece under their belt. How can they NOT get better. LOL.

I wouldn't attribute the success in the running and the passing game to the offensive line just yet. I think that the play calling and the attention TO demands have just a LITTLE something to do with it. The line is performing about as what I expected. They get their share of penalties. They miss some assignments but in general are doing well for a bunch of REALLY young guys that have had a portion of the off season to play with each other. Good job so far! BUT...definitely room for improvement. I still don't think they are a GOOD line yet but they aren't a huge liability. Lots to look forward to though. And YES, the young smaller guys do seem to better fit the tempo of the no huddle!

+10 on the swagger. It's about time someone got excited when we scored on offense. Goodness knows those opportunities have been few and far between for a long time. Get the fans fired up! Get the team fired up! Get the buzz back that we lost after the TO injury. I'm kind of old school myself so to speak but this is not your daddy's NFL. The times have changed, the game has changed, the players have changed and so have the fans. It's generally the old guys or the sons of those strong old school type guys that have problems with all of the playing to the crowd and demonstrative behavior exhibited by some players. The old school guys also don't seem to get that today's NFL is by far a business first and a game second. This is not little league or school kids playing grade school sports and you shake hands after the game, get congratulated on a game well played win or lose and you get ice cream after wards. In that world sportsmanship and carrying yourself with class is sometimes as important as how well you play. In this game you get your butt reamed for dropping a ball, you have profanities painted on your front lawn if you fumble a kick off, you get killed in your own home for worldly possessions. You have some women that will do anything to be with you or mother an illegitimate child to get a pay check and be set for the foreseeable future. This "game" is about selling tickets, merchandise and commercial air time. The players image, behavior and every bit of minutia about them are almost more of a possession or revenue making commodity of the broadcast networks and the teams than their own. Some players try to take a measure of ownership and control with demonstrative behavior on and off the field, tweeting, websites, 30 minute talk shows etc. Many of them are ill prepared for such scrutiny in the public eye!!!!! Take an incredibly athletically gifted human being from a broken home in an impoverished neighbor hood with questionable at best parenting and role models and you get what you get sometimes. For all of the "sensationalization" of TOs behavior the only thing he has ever been guilty of is speaking his mind. Hopefully as all men do he is learning and maturing as he ages. Fortunately WE don't have to do it under the lights of ESPN.

Lynch already is the short yardage specialist and moves the pile for first downs and TDs. He also currently gets a large majority of the carries. Where I probably do agree with you is that we need to get Jackson more touches. It would be great if we had some 2 RB formations. Perhaps we do but we haven't been able to employ them due to Lynch's suspension. These two guys would be a GREAT compliment to each other. Splitting either or both out to catch, all manor of shenanigans with reverses, formation shifts and possibly dare I say it ... the WILD CAT!!! Another way to put it is I don't think the answer is less Lynch...it's MORE Jackson. Both of these guys need a lot of touches and we need to get them both on the field at the same time to take advantage of their different styles. We can run two back sets AND on some plays Jackson could come out of the backfield to line up at Reeds spot. Van Pelt, so far, is proving to be an upgrade over Schonert and used Josh Reed really well yesterday to get us out of that period of stagnation. It took years for Reed to work himself into being the competent WR that he is today but I would like to see Jackson come in in his spot on several plays a game. He could start out on the line and shift to the back field or he could start in the backfield and shift out to the WR spot. The motion alone could clue the offense in as to whether the defense is playing man or zone.

Man you have a reading comprehension problem! I make no excuses nor do I call them deficiencies. These are things that YOU think you see. I am merely explaining logically that which you fail to properly interpret. I hate to use this retort but I'm going to guess that you haven't played a sport or lifted a weight in the past. Are you actually watching how much he exerts himself dragging 2 - 4 other grown NFL men with him on his runs? There is a tiny handful of RBs in the league capable of that and he pulls it off regularly. He gives his all on those plays. It's going to take something out of you. If you can't understand that or don't have respect for his effort and level of exertion you apparently have a learning disability and there is nothing that you can be taught. Freddie has plenty of tread. Again you have failed to miss the point that "I" have said nothing bad about either guy. They are BOTH great. You're kind of thick on this point. How can I be biased against someone I call great and haven't said one bad thing about? Get a clue man. You're so hyped up on your argument and obsessed with YOUR bias against Lynch that you are trying to make it a Lynch sucks Jackson rules argument when any fan with a brain thinks they are both good. I would mention that Lynch made the probowl but you're probably one of those guys that tries to say that the opinion of coaches, GMs and fellow players means nothing as far as probowl selection because it disputes your point.

Let's not get carried away buddy. Trent finally chucked a couple rainbows up there but nobody is going to confuse him for JP when it comes to the deep ball. We'll never see the down the middle of the field laser ball that some other QBs can throw. Trent did impress me though as has Van Pelt. It's DEFINITELY several steps in the right direction. Now if we could stop our annual parade of injured players leaving the field

Hardly interesting. We have actually started using the TE position. Why would people continue to B word about it not being used? It's like musing on why people would stop bitching about us losing when we start winning.....uh....DUUUUUH

That would be a tremendous waste of Lynch's talent. He takes himself out of the game on occasion after dragging the entire defense for 5 yards and to give your man crush Fast Freddie the playing time he deserves. And yes he came into camp heavier this year. It was muscle. Read the articles. Yes I was there actually and saw him standing outside of the luxury box. While waiting for someone. It was ridiculously cold and we had nothing to cheer for as we were not playing for anything. What, do you want him to do, stand on the sideline injured watching the final bitter end of our disaster of a season last year? Get real. I'm sure you go in to work on a sick day to cheer on your co-workers. What free pass are you talking about? Sounds like you are talking about some off field BS. On the field I think YOU have lost your objectivity. Jackson AND Lynch are great RBs. I don't have a bad word to say about either man. Maybe we also let Lynch play the first game of his 3rd year playing professional football? Jackson is a great find for a 28 year old man who is playing his 6th year of professional football(3 in the NFL).

I wish TO had half of Lee Evans heart when he dropped that 40+ yard bomb that could have potentially been a TD A #1 WR can't beat double coverage if their QB doesn't throw them the ball or throw them a proper ball. The announcers even made mention of this salient point last night. Commenting on how on TO's second chance at a TD that he caught Trent lobbed the ball in there with some arc and that he needed to learn to throw a ball to Lee Evans that way and that they are STILL for some reason working on their chemistry. Lee has been able to beat double coverage but he doesn't have a QB that is willing to risk throwing it into that small window that opens or putting up a ball with some arc deep and letting his WR make a play. I think Edwards suffers from what I might guess you do. A guy can't be a #1 WR unless they are fast, effective and most importantly 6'3" 200+ lbs. If those are indeed your criteria there are about 5 #1 WRs in the entire NFL. PS How much of a #1 WR did Randy Moss look like last night? I think Randy is a #1 WR by anyone's criteria. Over the course of his career there have been large periods of time where he didn't perform like one. Just goes to show there is much more than meets the eye.

Nice try but you're the one with the bias pally. Go look for these supposed holes that Lynch doesn't hit hard. Please go back and take a look at my post. You must have scored poorly on reading comprehension tests in school. Please point out where I say a single thing about receiving and pass protection!!! I won't bother to wait because I know you can't. Please reference standard "don't put words in my mouth" rant. Ok, now that that is cleared up. Your post even contradicts itself. Let me make it easy for YOU to understand because it is apparent you have issues in this respect. Per your statement Lynch only goes beast mode when he has momentum, presumably at least a good portion of the time from moving forward and hitting the holes. He is in beast mode quite frequently if you actually watched those games yourself that you asked me to watch. Therefore it is reasonable to say that most of the time he isn't moving sideways for 0 yard gains and missing holes. Yours is the apparent bias as I believe that BOTH of the RBs are a great asset to this team. Please tell me if I am wrong but it appears from your statements you don't think Lynch is a great RB. Say that he is and it's obvious that perhaps I exaggerated the strength of your criticism of Lynch. I haven't said a bad word about EITHER guy. I have merely stated that in some situations I prefer Lynch. To agree with some of your points earlier I DO think Jackson is a better WR even though Lynch has more catches likely due to playing time. I also do think that Jackson may have an edge in pass protection. Jackson has had 2 GREAT games this year. Our WR, not so much because a lot of attention is being given to BOTH Lee and Terrell. It will be interesting to see how Lynch fairs in this new offense with two credible WRs and noticeably better play calling. Perhaps he will face more 8 in the box and open thing ups even more in the passing game.

Wow! Are you even watching the same team I am?!?!?!? Seriously. I think you have a pretty big bias against Lynch. 1) I have seen our o-line get crushed, Lynch jitterbugs behind the line caving in on him, picks a spot and drives defenders from 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage for a 4 yard gain. 2) Lynch DOES NOT need forward momentum to do this!!! Jackson is NOT a soft runner but Lynch runs harder and it's by a significant easily observable margin!! 3) Comparing Lynch and Jackson elusiveness is very difficult. They are BOTH elusive!!! They do it in different ways. Lynch is more that Barry Sanders stop in his tracks, shimmy, slip and slide to break tackles and power through a guy type RB. Jackson uses his speed and is a more fluid open field runner that glides side to side to avoid tackers. 4) I have no idea what you are trying to say with years in the league. Jackson being the older guy with more miles on him has better long term potential and the guy that has yet to play his first game of his 3rd year his career could be almost over? That is just completely back-assward. Again I say WOW!!! I think you developed your opinion of the RBs before actually impartially observing their play.

Great point! To quote myself the problems below I think DIRECTLY lead to our lack of efficiency on 3rd down. Our CBs and LBs need to play close and tighter coverage. Unlike one of the other posters I don't think that playing just a couple yards closer would lead to more big plays for the opposing offense. Safeties are supposed to be there over the top to prevent the deep ball. Our CBs also have 4.3 speed and should be able to turn and run with a WR trying to blow past them.

Welker and Moss were successful because of our defensive scheme. Plain and simple! I don't know if it's our implementation of the Cover 2 or if we don't have the right personnel. These are the problems that I see on most plays: 1) Our CBs give WAY too much cushion to opposing WRs. 8 - 10 yards. 2) Our LBs drop back WAY WAY to far on pass plays and cover zones instead of opposing WRs and TEs. 3) We cover opposing TEs with undersized LBs that don't have great hip turn, feet or cover skills. 4) Our FS may as well be sitting in the stands as they're rarely a factor in pass defense.