Leonidas

What??? Are you mentally deficient? My rationale was that if a player who is going to be a bust but is projected to be a 1st round pick slips to the second we shouldn't just draft him because talking heads thought he would be a first rounder. Get your head checked. That...doesn't make any sense. You too completely missed my point, it seems. My point was that just because a projected first rounder slips into the second round doesn't mean we should pick him, and it certainly doesn't mean we'd be "ecstatic" to get him.

No, I wasn't comparing them as players. I just meant that Kelsay was a porjected first rounder who we grabbed in the second, and look how well that turned out. They are obviously completely different players...although they could be equally ineffective. Don't forget, Chris Kelsay had seven sacks his final season at Nebraska. That hasn't really translated to the NFL. Aaron Maybin will hit double digit sacks if he plays in a 3-4. If he's a 4-3 DE, it'll never happen.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. My thinking is this: if Detroit passes on Stafford they likely take OT Smith, agreed? Then there are two QB's available, Stafford and Sanchez. St. Louis has other issues and probably passes on the QB, KC has Cassel now and passes. Does Seattle draft the heir apparent to Hasselbeck already? I doubt it (although they could). Cleveland doesn't need a QB, neither does Cincy, and Oakland won't invest money in another QB while they have JaMarcus. I doubt Jax would while they have Garrard, Green Bay definitely won't. If Stafford begins to fall I think it would be very likely for a team to swoop in and grab him, displacing the team they trade with - if that team is Cleveland, Green bay, KC, etc. (i.e. a team that would have drafted defensively) we may find one of the big three drop. It doesn't prove anything, except that the consensus is that no defensive player is worth the #1 overall pick. The ceiling on Raji seems to be the #3 pick; Orakpo the #4, E. Brown the #9. In every single mock I have seen it's been a QB or OT going to Detroit. If you know something about these players the rest of us don't, feel free to let us in on the secret...

Kalimba Edwards couldn't even start in Detroit. In 11 starts with Oakland he had just five sacks. He's only slightly more exciting than Jason Babin. I'll pass on him. I'd rather give Hargrove another shot. He's four years younger and has more upside than K. Edwards.

Why? We don't run a 3-4, so unless we're blitzing the WLB every play (which we can't) it's a wasted pick. Good point. It just makes him completely ineffective. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

This guy is on drugs. I wouldn't be happy anyway. Why would we be excited about getting Maybin in the second round anyhow? Chris Kelsay was a projected 1st rounder we got in the second. Are you excited about another season of him?? A bust is a bust is a bust. Maybin is not a 4-3 DE. If the FO thinks he can play OLB fine, but you wouldn't draft two OLB's in the first two rounds. Furthermore, this guy's rationale for drafting OLB at #11 is Ellison/Crowell. That won't be an issue if/when we sign June/Keiaho. Not that we shouldn't look at the position but DE is of #1 importance. Trade up to get Orakpo or E. Brown. Or trade down to 20 or so and pick up Michael Johnson and stockpile picks.

I haven't seen a single mock draft with the Lions taking a defensive player. I've seen taking only a QB or OT. If anything I think this hurts our chances. If Stafford drops, then someone takes him over Sanchez, then Sanchez drops and teams trade up to get him, letting a defensive lineman slip.

You guys are on drugs. The T.O. signing doesn't change anything. Our pass rush is pathetic. Regardless of signing a WR in free agency - which we were going to do anyway - targeting a DE first and foremost is top priority. End of discussion. EDIT: only some of you are on drugs

Nothing about Fine excites me. In ten games last year he had ten catches for 94 yards and one TD. He's this slow (4.89), lumbering blocking TE. He reminds me of a slow Jay Riemersma more than Walls or Heap.

You're partially right there, but remember Pat Williams was a DT, not a DE. DT's 40 times are generally irrelevant. DE's are not. Dwight Freeney ran a 4.38.

Julius Peppers had 12 sacks his rookie year. Gaines Adams had six. Anthony Spencer had three in six starts. LaMarr Woodley had four in zero starts and 11½ the next year. We don't need an overhaul of the LB position. A player like Keiaho or June eliminates that position as one of need with the exception of depth (which, IMO, we should sign a vet for). We NEED to overhaul the DE position. If Brown and Orakpo are gone and we think we can get Johnson later, then trade down and get him later. Poz makes a good MLB in the Tampa 2. No need to move him to the outside. I would also suggest everyone stop moving Hangartner. He obviously wants to play center and feels more comfortable there. Is it that difficult getting a guard? Sign a Kendall Simmons (or someone comparable) and draft an interior lineman in the third round, give or take (unless we stockpile picks - then you can pick him up earlier) and let him compete.

I'm not sure why anybody is high on Ayers. He had three sacks last year and ran a 4.8. Mel Kiper on Ayers: "Ayers enjoyed a solid season in the SEC and stood out at the Senior Bowl practices. I thought he'd run about a 4.6-second time in the 40 at the combine workout, but he clocked only a 4.80. If during individual testing he can push that number down closer to what I expected, he'll come off the board between picks No. 20 and No. 32. " But I am a fan of trading down. Our first and third for Philly's two firsts works according to the draft chart. It's more likely to happen on draft day too as people slide down to where trading up is attractive.

Don't reach on a workout warrior! Remember Matt Jones?? People need to realize how to work the draft better. Don't draft a guy at #11 if you can get him at #20. You pay him less, you acquire more draft picks, and you put less pressure on the player to perform immediately.

Thanks for the article. I wonder if Philly would be interested in trading up. We could grab their two picks (we'd have to throw in our third rounder too, according to the chart (Draft Pick Value Chart), grab this Johnson guy (who sounds pretty good, honestly), probably grab the TE of our choosing, and still have our 2nd round pick for LG or depth. There are concerns, though: DE Johnson’s ‘consistency’ questioned at combined. He's also kind of skinny for being 6'7" (Ryan Denney is 276 lbs. at the same height; he's Dwight Freeney's weight but four inches taller). Mel Kiper says: "The enigma at defensive end is Georgia Tech's Michael Johnson. He's blessed with a ton of ability and pass-rush potential but didn't come through with anything close to the dominating senior season I expected of him. As you noticed if you followed the big board every week all season, he slid down gradually the entire way until he was no longer in the top 25 at all. If he steps up his intensity and plays a more physical brand of football, you could be looking at one heck of a player in the NFL. He's a roll of the dice, though, because he could be a major disappointment. " I'd still take Johnson over Tyson Jackson who is the #3 rated DE by Mel, for some reason. His stats certainly don't warrant it. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161147) Neither Jackson nor Robert Ayers impress me at all. A guy I would like to see Buffalo take on the second day (no earlier than the fourth round) would be Richmond's Lawrence Sidbury, Jr (http://www.talkbuffalosports.com/showthread.php?t=5473). Look him up.

Actually, Rice technically ended his career in Seattle. He had agreement to go to Denver for one more season but would have been 4th on the depth chart and decided to retire instead.

Have you ever watched the draft? These things are discussed all the time. You mean like 6'5" 212 lbs. James Hardy who also...can't get off a jam??

Not at this point, no. We've got all the personnel to do it, minus the DE's. It only works if you have a pass rush, though. Tampa had Simeon Rice off the edge and Warren Sapp in the middle. Indy had/has Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis off the ends. We have...Ryan Denney and Chris Kelsay. It would take a serious overhaul to change it up. We could go from the Tampa 2 to a variation on the base 4-3 with enough preparation, but we can't switch to a 3-4 without replacing the entire front 7, more or less (although I actually think Ryan Denney would make a good 3-4 DE).

But what about Ethan Albright??? Ethan Albright Strikes Back

No, they wouldn't. Don't know why this keeps being brought up...

That doesn't make any sense at all. Our pass rush was horrid last year. Your DB's can't cover anybody for six seconds. We need a DE bad, much worse than the G we will likely pick up in the next week or so. Plus, you can't just draft a late 1st round pick at #11. If there are no DE's you want at #11 (assuming Orakpo and Brown are gone and the FO realizes the bust Maybin will be), no TE's there (any would be a reach there), and no OL there then you trade down, acquire extra draft picks and save $$ on your rookie contracts while acquiring the same player.

You can't recover salary but cutting Kelsay. So much of his contract was guaranteed you'd only save a million or so of cap space. It's not worth cutting him; just let him be a backup. Everyone needs to stop trading the most explosive PR in the league. Seriously. Not sure why this is gaining so much steam but just stop it already. If Tyson Jackson won't provide a great pass rush, then why the hell do you want to draft him??? Everette Brown is listed at 6'2" 256 lbs., ran a 4.73 at the Combine, and can bench 480 lbs. Sounds big enough to me. Round 4-7 you draft best available players for depth in positions of need, including OL, DE, S, LB, TE (in that order). "opposite aaron"...what does that mean? 31 year-old Aaron Schobel isn't the answer. He's barely a starter at this point. He has 7½ sacks in 21 games over the last two years. He only got one in his five starts last year. Do our playoff hopes rely - at least in part - on his reclaiming his 2006 form? If so, we may be in trouble.

Yes, I'm sure his trade value is sky-high. Who wants Chris Kelsay? The Calgary Stampeders? Maybe we can throw in our equipment manageer to sweeten the pot... I wish you were wrong too. But you're not. Ellis had 3 tackles, 0 sacks in 7 games this year. Kelsay had 19 tackles and 0 sacks in 16 games his first season. The more things change...

Why is Hamdan a shoe-in? What does the FO see in this guy to keep him around?

I agree with that's why you wouldn't bring in a Leftwich or a Garcia. But what about a guy who wouldn't challenge Trent to start like Patrick Ramsey or Charlie Batch? Someone who would win a few games if/when Trent gets injured. A Damon Huard or a Trent Green might fit the mold, too. I'm worried that Trent will get injured for a few games and Fitzpatrick won't be able to fill in causing TO to spiral downward, and all this talent and hope and goodwill will go for naught...

Roy Williams is awful against the pass. I wouldn't even entertain this idea. In the cover 2 both safeties need to get deep. The Patriots would have a field day with him. Pass.