Mr. WEO
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Posts posted by Mr. WEO
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Looking back, i was one who heaped blame on fairchild, but it was probably Jauron who forced fairchild to go with a more conservative offense. After Turk's comments last season when he got fired, i believe him (even if he was overmatched). Jauron has never had good offensive coordinators. I believe it is a combination of his inability to find one worth a damn, and even if the guy he found had potential, he'd ruin them with his ultra-conservative style.
Two things dick jauron excelled at: preventing the development of any young coaches/players, and putting those players and coaches in the worst possible position to succeed.
It's already been shown that, with JP as starter, a "conservative offense" was more productive.
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when the bills were winning under butler, i heard no negative comments about players playing in buffalo, coming to play in buffalo. it has been a culture of mismanagement that has made the team undesirable for the past decade. i know buffalo is not south beach, but a winning tradition would obviously put on us on an even playing field regarding the perception of actually playing here.
So you're saying that winning might play a factor in getting decent players to Buffalo?
Very interesting....you may be on to something.
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We're hurtin for a disgruntled LT. It's been over a year.....
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If I am wrong on technicality so be it. Preseason game 3 starter, IS AS YOU KNOW IF YOU WATCH FOOTBALL, the guy who will be the week 1 starter. So, again, if I don't remember correctly and it was JUST as the preseason week 3 starter, I'll give you your point on a technicality. I will also use my football smarts and I understand that that equals regular season starter. Preseason game 3 is THE only important game of preseason as the starters play through the half and give way to the backups in the 3rd quarter.
OH, and the actual relevant part is that he would likely immediately become our best QB and at the very LEAST would challenge the collection of fodder we currently have on the roster
But, I guess you are afraid that if we brought him in he might actually BEAT OUT your boy Trent. Well Mr lover of mediocrity I would rather see more competition at EVERY position with perhaps the exception of CB seeing as how we find diamonds in the rough and draft 1st round CBs every 3rd year.So much pathology in one post!
Anyway, for maybe the fourth time---Troy had one start in game 2 preseason. He was SO BAD, they yanked him before the half. Then, before giving up on him and settling on Boller or Flacco, they decided to give Smith one more try and decided to let him start another preseason game (3).
This is what actually happened. On your planet, it occured differently, apparently, and I can respect that.
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I think you are technically correct that Troy Smith was never named the week one starter. Troy Smith was named the starter of the 3rd preseason game though. It would probably be best if a Ravens fan could interject and tell us what was really going on.
Done.
Smith was only started 1 preseason games in 2008 as he was competing with Boller for the starting job. In his fist start, game 2 of the preseason, this is how he did, as recapped on NFL.com:QUOTE
QB Smith struggles: Second-year QB Troy Smith, competing for a spot as Baltimore's No.1, looked shaky in his first start of the preseason. Smith opened a two-minute drill at the end of the second half with an interception on a pass intended for Mark Clayton. Smith was removed before the following possession, finishing the day 3 of 5 for 25 yards.
He also took a couple of sacks. Nice.
Then after that bomb, the coaching staff decided to take one more look and White was "named the starter"----of the 3rd preseason game. His tonsils saved him the embarrassment of losing the job to a rookie, who by the way had this as his first start (in a REAL game) in Week 1.
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I have to partially disagree with you. I do feel we are not the most desirable place to come to, mainly for the weather(it IS a factor) and the city not being the most fun place to be.(just ask McGahee!) I mean, if YOU had you choice between Miami and Buffalo, where would you go? no brainer. But I don't think we have as bad a rep to the players and coaches around the league as one would think. We will definitely be more desirable once we get better and bring back the old Bills winning ways, but in the end money does talk, and if the money is right for a free agent NOT near the end of his career, I think they would sign on the dotted line.
What about Green Bay? Minny? Some great weather there--and real cosmopolitan towns! Do they have trouble attracting players?
Hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder what it could be......
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That certain types of encephalopathy can leave changes in the CNS is inarguable. And yes many are diagnosed clinically (and in Henry's case, as far as we know, there was no clinical diagnosis for his behavior). I just don't see why these 2 doctors would fabricate their findings. Perhaps the family is angling for a lawsuit against the NFL, and if they were, that will tell us more. But I don't see it, and I don't see them winning a lawsuit, if they were to bring one.
I already conceded the point in your first sentence. Doesn't change anything.
They aren't necessarily fabricating it for their conclusion to be dubious. They are given a brain, or a piece of it, that is badly damaged due to recent massive trauma. They are asked if they see evidence of "Chronic traumatic encepahlopathy", which they specialize in seeing (in their backwoods brain injury "centeer"), and they say "yes, we see this evidence on the path slides". Don't recall the actual ME making this diagnosis (how did he miss it??) on the post---or maybe he kept it a secret because the League got to him!
I don't see the woman winning a lawsuit either because the causality is just not there. But the goal of most malpractice suits is not to win a jury verict, but to coerce a settlement for the plaintiff.
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WRONG!...He was named the starter. You have your facts wrong. The tonsillitis opened the door for 1st round pick Flacco and the QB of the future didn't screw it up and kept the job.What do people NOT get about the fact that Troy Smith was the #1 QB in Baltimore before the tonsillitis? 1st round pick "QB of the future" Flacco comes in and doesn't screw things up. It's became his job. This HARDLY the same stituation as BrohmYou do realize that Troy Smith was named the starter right? Yes as stated first round pick QB of the future Flacco was already on the roster. I thought that was pretty clear since I SAID IT!!! IF Flacco was the favorite to win the job how come they named Troy the starter. Doesn't seem to make sense does it?
Wow. How many times can a guy repeat the same wrong statement?
He was never named the starter. He started one preseason game--and sucked. Give it up!
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WRONG!...He was named the starter. You have your facts wrong. The tonsillitis opened the door for 1st round pick Flacco and the QB of the future didn't screw it up and kept the job.
No, you're wrong.
Smith was only started 1 preseason games in 2008 as he was competing with Boller for the starting job. In his fist start, game 2 of the preseason, this is how he did, as recapped on NFL.com:
QB Smith struggles: Second-year QB Troy Smith, competing for a spot as Baltimore's No.1, looked shaky in his first start of the preseason. Smith opened a two-minute drill at the end of the second half with an interception on a pass intended for Mark Clayton. Smith was removed before the following possession, finishing the day 3 of 5 for 25 yards.He also took a couple of sacks. Nice.
Then after that bomb, the coaching staff decided to take one more look and White was "named the starter"----of the 3rd preseason game. His tonsils saved him the embarrassment of losing the job to a rookie, who by the way had this as his first start (in a REAL game) in Week 1.
Game ballsRookie QB Joe Flacco didn't have spectacular statistics (15-of-29, 129 yards) but he showed poise in the pocket and managed the game in the second half like a veteran. The 6-foot-6, 230-pounder even scampered 38 yards down the sideline for a touchdown. He also didn't have a turnover.
Troy White was never going to start for the Ravens.
Your sh*t is lame.
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I hear you, but I think it's because he's a young QB who got sick at the wrong time and, thus, really hasn't gotten much of a chance. Bulger is proven and Smith isn't yet. I guess the Ravens didn't want to take a chance that Sal Paolantonio is right.
A lot of us want a proven QB (I've seen the names Garcia & Campbell thrown around in this thread), but that QB comes at a price. It won't happen.
I can see this Troy Smith thing happening. He's saying the right things, but you have to believe he's not happy being relegated to the 3rd QB w/o being given much of a shot. Perhaps he needs the right offense? Hard to say, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for Smith, Brown being sent to the PS, and one of Edwards/Brohm being shown the door.
He got beaten out by a better QB. Not by tonsillitis, or whatever. What leads you to believe that Smith would still be the QB if Flacco wasn't drafted? He's another crappy pro QB from Ohio State. Why would we dump Brohm when there is no evidence that Smith is any better at pro football? I don't get it.
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WEO, all of the causes of encephalopathy you listed above cause dysfunction in the brain, and you happened to select those that are reversible to attempt to prove your point. If you were to biopsy a person's brain that was acutely encephalopathic in any one of those conditions you would find acute changes be they metabolic, inflammatory, edematous, etc if you were looking in the right place. If you WERE to biopsy them, you would ALSO get sued for malpractice, as they are all treatable conditions with a reversible cause. To suggest they universally leave no residual brain damage is also incorrect, as evidenced by the fact that people with meningitis have an increased tendency to have seizures as well as hearing deficits, especially if they had this at a young age. Regardless, I am not disagreeing with the treatable or generally reversible nature of the examples you provided. To suggest that they represent the majority of the causes of encephalopathy is wrong. They are some of the more common causes, however there are countless genetic causes that result in accumulated changes in the brain over time that can occur in people who are apparently of normal intelligence and functioning at birth and into their adult lives; there are conditions that are as a result of improper proteins within the brain; there are conditions that strip the coating off of nerves, as well as infections that can do the same that are not treatable; there are changes due to hypertension that are not necessarily acutely symptomatic, but that can be seen on an MRI... I could go on endlessly. The fact is, you mention acute causes of encephalopathy and state these are the majority, but there are numerous causes of progressive encephalopathy (slow onset changes to the brain that accumulate over time), of which traumatic encephalopathy is one.
In my initial post, my statement was that Henry was awfully young to have those findings, and that I didn't think 4-5 years in the NFL would cause that. This was meant more as an "I wonder what happened to this guy earlier in his life before he became a pro football player" kind of statement. For all we know he and his delinquent friends donned baseball helmets and hit one another in the head with a bat after school from the time they were 12. Also, everyone's biology is different. He could have an underlying predisposition to a degenerative disease such as frontotemporal dementia that usually presents in a person's 50s, and similarly results in people becoming disinhibited and exhibiting poor judgement, and his chosen profession hastened it's progression by causing trauma in areas that were already susceptible thereby exacerbating it. Who knows. The fact is if other players want to use this as an excuse someone would have to biopsy their brain to conclusively demonstrate evidence of disease, something I doubt many players would be excited to have done.
The thing is it's not a stretch, as several have mentioned, to think that in a population of people who have spent their lives running into things at full speed that this condition would be more prevalent. It's also not hard to believe that a sport like football would have a higher number of naturally aggressive, disinhibited a-holes succeeding given the very nature of the sport. Calling BS on Henry's mother's motive for doing this is different than calling BS on the fact that there was evidence of an underlying condition. Was it severe enough to affect Henry's decision making? Who knows, but the presence of it certainly didn't make him a more rational, thoughtful person.
I didn't select them---they are the diseases that most commonly cause encephalopathy in non elderly patients. All might show acute brain pathology (no need to biopsy them!), but most are reversible if diagnosed and treated in a timely fashion. Meninigitis of course can do irreparable damage to the central nervous system if not successfully treated.
There are not countless (which are all rare) genetic diseases that cause encephalopathy and these certainly do not make of the majority of cases, nor do other diseases such as hypertension---unless you are defining "encephalopathy" now as any pathologic condition of the brain. You would then have to include malignancy as one of the most common causes. This is not how the term is used.
I initially called BS on the motivation of the docs and the family coming forth with this. Also, I am still skepitcal that you could take a severely, acutely traumatized brain (massive hemmorhage and edema) and find a few noninjured areas that happened to have the very surprising findings of chronic disease that the family was looking for. What lead the family to think that he, at age 26, had such a devestating and chronically debilitating disease? How hard was it for these docs to find just what they were looking for?
Sorry, that's just me.
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i dont think mason was saying people are blaming TO for what happened to the entire bills offense
i think hes saying that people are viewing TOs major dropoff in production as a sign hes washed up, and that it was actually the bills horrible offense that caused most of TO getting about half of what he would have almost any where else
another way to look at it is imagine how horrible the offense would have been if TO hadnt been a legit threat on the other side
and i agree. last season was one of the worst offenses ive ever seen in bflo, primarily because the OLine became a bad joke when it came to pass protecting. the qbs were under so much pressure that even on plays that the qbs werent running for their life they couldnt relax and play confident cuz they were scared from the previous ten plays where they were
this sorta reminds me of when trent edwards said he wasnt a fan of the bills he was a player. the statement was completely accurate and mature, and yet people completely misconstrued it to believe trent was saying he doesnt care about the bills. of course thats not what he was saying but people did and still use their wrong interpretation against him
The Bills offense the year before TO was no worse than with him. I think it will be at least as good this year now that he's gone.
He's gone. He left no mark on this team.
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I don't know if I would like this or not. Smith does have a strong arm though, I think he had the fastest clocked pass at his combine, but his accuracy I'm not sure about.
It sucks. You can be sure about that.
When a team brings in Marc Bulger to replace Troy Smith, how does that make Smith more attractive?
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My wish is that someone be an effective starter for the Bills. If Trent emerges from training camp as the best QB and has a good season, great. I just don't see it happening, mostly because I don't see him staying healthy for the whole season.
Everyone wants an effective starter for the Bills. Re: TE, you may be right. I think his psyche is fried.
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It's not that simple. The idea is that these types of injuries put you at risk of developing that type of condition. Even if it is a risk factor, it is no guarantee. All obese people don't wind up developing diabetes and all smokers don't suffer some sort of cardiovascular disease, but those are definitely risk factors for those conditions. It wouldn't have to be the majority of players developing those symptoms, just a significantly higher rate than the normal population.
The symptoms you list are nonspecific and common to several psychological diseases that have no pathological lesions.
I would tend to agree with you if there was any evidence, antemortem, that Henry had any injury. Other than "moving fast and suddenly stopping", which every football player does regularly, it's...unusual to find evidence of chronic brain damage in a healthy young man.
At least one third of all morbidly obese individuals have type 2 diabetes. The majority of heavy smokers will develop a smoking related disease. Those are large numbers, not rarities. Since all NFL players are exposed to at least as much injury as Henry, many, if not most, should exhibit the same behavior and the same brain pathology.
Besides, these guys are hedging any conclusion. They are just "tossing it out there".
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My wish is that he becomes a bonafide starting QB for the Bills. But nothing I've seen since his rookie season leads me to believe that will happen.
No it isn't. You clearly stated that you hope he doesn't take a snap.
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Oy. One can most certainly diagnose that encephalopathy (certain types, not all of them) was present on autopsy. Using the aforementioned BSE (and the human form, variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease), there are actual holes in the cortex and spinal cords of cows (humans), hence the "spongiform" term. In Wernicke's encephalopathy, there are lesions and atrophy in the mammillary bodies, among other structures. In hypoxic encephopathy, there can be generalized cortical atrophy, like in Terri Schiavo's case. That a neurosurgeon and ME (of which you are neither) said that Henry suffered from chronic traumatic encepthalopathy, based on microscopic analysis should have made you think twice. But hey, send a letter to them at the Brain Injury Research Institute telling them that they're FOS, and ask them what part of med school they missed.
Encephalopathy caused by infection, liver failure, kidney failure are fully reversable in most cases and therefore will leave no pathologic damage to the brain. These are toxin related diseases.
Wernicke's encepaholpathy is caused by thiamine deficiency and when presenting acutely and treated appropriately, is completely reversible and will leave no mark on the brain.
In fact most etiologies of encepahlopathy diagnosed and treated early will have the same outcome, with no "brain damage". I don't disagree that any etiology left untreated will leave pathologic evidence in the brain and be irreversible.
However, Henry was a young guy with very low miles on him and NO history of head injury or concussion in college or the pros (he was hardly ever on the field!). And it was certainly not "encephalopathy" that made him jump on the truck. And if that is the case--what is the point of these two docs coming forth with their "diagnosis"? I'm assuming the family brought them in for a reason. "Doctor, is this an injured brain?". "Oh yes, yes it is. Let's announce this att a press conference." If you want a certain dagnosis, you go to a certain doctor. Happens a lot in medicine, doc.
Check out the doc's theory of how Henry may have developed such an advanced state of the disease which left permanent pathologic changes to his brain, despite no history of head trauma. If Henry got it that way, then every player's got it, I guess. Ditto anyone who rides a cab in Manhattan.
Transient<
I will concede that the most rare of all human diseases may have already caused brain injury well before the patient is symptomatic, but as above, nearly all other causes are overtly symptomatic and the permanent damage (pathological change) is a later sequela of the disease.
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Bahahahahahahahahaha! Vick is just a Vick-tim!
Now I truly HAVE seen everything. Carry on, Hyppocrites.
No, just pointing out the obvious misstatements in that post.
You can revise history at your leisure--it works for you, doc.
Everyone else can see that I am no supporter of Vick. He's a crappy passer and a punk.
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Yeah, it's been SO much better with Edwards. Hopefully they limit his chances to zero.
I agree, it hasn't been much better.
You may get your wish.
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I disagree about McGahee. McGahee does have some talent, but I wouldn't put him in the Top 20 of RB's in the league. He has an attitude problem and was almost out the door in Baltimore. McGahee went down easy upon contact with a DB. So, I'd rather have Lynch over him.
Here's my list:
DT - Pat Williams
QB - Doug Flutie - wish we kept him over Johnson. Flutie would have been a nice stop gap at QB until the Bills could have drafted a replacement.
CB - Antoine Winfield
Rueben Brown
Travis Henry
Winfield--great tackler in run coverage. Mediocre pass coverage-at best. Easily replaced.
London Fletcher, but he wasn't really a scapegoat. Everyone said he was too old. How long ago was that? He was not easily replaced---look at the crew we're looking forward to now........
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Well stated, although encephalopathy leading to poor impulse control is a little more esoteric than a stroke. However it cannot be excluded as a major cause, especially when there's histologic evidence of it.
"Encephalopathy is a clinical diagnosis?" If only you'd just misdiagnosed an ACL tear from your TV.
Wow....
Anyway, Yes, it is. It's a clinical syndrome and has many causes. One is brain injury. A pathology slide will not tell you if a patient was encephalopathic at the time of death--or at any time. "Mad cow" or BSE is described on pathology--the "E" because the individual was actually enchepalopathic. Hence the name.
Come on doc, you must have been present for part of med school and residency. It's hard to believe you're arguing this one. Wait--no it's not!
By the way--you're the one who jumped in on the "ACL injury".
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If you have been paying attention to OTAs Levi Brown has been the last guy getting reps and he's getting far fewer than the other 3. I'm sure the pessimist crowd will read that as Brown is a bust, but it's probably more likely that Chan knows Levi will be holding a clipboard for a season or two and that his real starter will be either Brohm, Edwards or Fitz.
PTR
7th round QBs can't be busts.
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Are you kidding? You know more than a coroner? Seriously?
That was NOT the case's coroner's report. It was an opinion of a neurosurgeon and a pathologist who was asked to review the slides by Henry's mother. In fact these docs, who are completely uninvovled with Henry's care, made this announcement with her at their sides.
You see where this is going? Be skeptical.
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From a pathology perspective they should be able to see both acute and chronic changes and sort them out. The chronic changes are essentially a form of scarring that occurs slowly and gradually, or deposits in brain tissue that are not normally seen until later in life, and would not be related to or even expected from the acute trauma. If the damage is widespread, or is significant in the front parts of the brain, the effect can be increased impulsivity, poor decision making or "executive function," or a whole host of mood related and behavior related problems. I'm not so much calling BS as I am wondering what was going on to cause this in his brain at such an early age. 4-5 years in the NFL probably wouldn't cause these changes to show up prominently at this point in time.
Encepahlopathy is a clinical diagnosis--it therefore cannot be made on a dead person. Seeing chronic changes of repeated head trauma on a 26 year old is dubious. Making the link to his behavior that fateful day requires a quantum leap of faith---even on the doc who is making this claim.
wr Chris Henry - evidence of prior brain damage
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Thankfully, I have very little personal/professional experience with medical malpractice cases---mostly I review cases as an expert. Pointing out that most suits result in no judgement against the doc does not change the fact that the goal of most plaintiff's cases (or their lawyers) is to obtain a settlement, as opposed to going to trial. So your comment makes no sense at all. The plaintiff's bar knows the odds you are mentioning.
Yes, I have no clue what I am saying---that's one possiblity. Or, maybe all the big words are confusing you.
Transient does sound like like a very bright guy and he makes well thought out and valid points that I sometimes respectfully disagree with (I enjoy the back and forth with a well-informed poster).
You, on the other hand, put your level of intelligence on fabulous display each time you post.