Hapless Bills Fan
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Maybe the kicking game...given his propensity for feet.
Lol!
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@mikerodak: Rex Ryan will address reporters before todays practice (approx. 1:45), which is unusual. He wont speak again until next Wednesday.
Cut to come before practice?
This could be. Don't practice players who'll be cut.
Unless he plans to announce that practice has been canceled and will be replaced by 2 hrs of Carpenter taking penalty kicks while IK tries to block them.
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That would be dumber than cutting Fred IMO. Dude has played well enough to have a spot on this team
Especially from the cap perspective, where his salary is fully guaranteed through 2016 and would RAISE his cap hit if cut this year.
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Hopeful vs. Negativo - this is playing out like a cosmic battle for the soul of mankind!
Coach Tuesday, This One's For You!
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if I recall correctly it was "some coaches" who did not agree he should be cut. It was the couple of football ops folks who were caught off guard.
It could have been any coach - Andre Reed, even.
You are correct, it was "some coaches didn't agree". It may even have been relevant coaches - RB coach, for example - that kind of thing happens all the time, the RB coach ranks his guys and wants to keep 5, the WR coach ranks his guys and wants to keep 6, the ST guys has a different ranking, the Football Ops bean counters squeal to cut any backup guys who're expensive before the season opener, the coaches dealing with injuries yell to keep more players as insurance 'til the injured players are 100% back.
And someone (that would be Whaley, in the case of the Bills) gets the thankless job of reconciling all the irreconcilable differences and making the tough calls. Only in this case the Bills had a couple of Deep Throats who fluffed it up into a big 'ol fire.
Maybe he didn't tell these "sources" because they have a big mouth and can't keep quiet and might have told Fred or the media before they were able to talk to Fred himself.
I think the smart money bets your way. It's probably true Whaley didn't act as Football Ops asked him to, and that's probably why. I mean, look at the evidence - they couldn't keep quiet afterwards when the deed was already done, why would anyone with neurons think they'd (whoever they are) sit quietly on a juicy and controversial news item?
No way this came from Brandon in my opinion. He is just TBD's scapegoat for anything and everything.
Agree. Brandon is riding high with the Pegulas, has been publically quoted as saying he's 100% hands off football roster decisions and hockey roster decisions, and has no reason to tarnish himself.
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oh, he's talented but he the way he carries the ball is troublesome. Earlier in the game he didn't switch hands while making contact with a DB.
The thing that most people forget about Bryce Brown is how little actual football experience he has. He's a project - really the RB version of Big Shadow only having shown something in the NFL - never stuck with and played for a college program significantly, here because of natural athleticism that's can't be coached, but green as grass. The question was "could he be coached up?" and the answer seems to be "not quickly enough". I can understand why they want to keep him, but I don't agree with the narrative that he was playing last night 'cuz he's "making a bid to fill a key backup role". I think they're trying to decide whether they keep him as #4 or try to stash Cierre Wood on PS.
i heard that the new center did get into the game late but didn't see the game yet. He is likely our new backup center because neither urbik or Kupper appear capable of cleanly snapping the ball.
Yep. My only question is why did the Bills wait so long to audition different backup centers? Unless there was no one sitting at home that they liked and they were salivating waiting for the cutdown lists to emerge.
Rex's reaction - grabs microphone, says "We gotta get a fuc*** kicker in here. This is bull****." Get whaley on the phone. "Whaley you gotta get me a fuc**** kicker."
Good week for a prank caller to phone Rex and claim to be Tampa Bay's general manager. "Hey you need a kicker up there?"
Ha, ha, from the Snooze game recap:
“Certainly, we’ve got some issues,” Ryan said. “Hell, we can’t make a field goal. So we’d better be looking for any guy that’s ever kicked a football in his life.” They “will get an opportunity here. I’m tired of seeing us miss a field goal. We’ve got a kickoff guy” Jordan Gay “and we miss field goals. I don’t get it.
“I don’t know if there’s any out there, but nobody gets this job by default. I’m very disappointed in that, and I don’t care who knows it.”
Cleaned up for a family rag, you got it pretty close! Translation "Whaley, you gotta get me a fuc**** kicker, get 3 in here, h**l get 10!"
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The link I posted clearly listed the new director of football ops under the Player Personnel Department, and it was a link from the Bills themselves. I suggest you contact the Bills at once and notify them of their mistake, or just admit it's under the Player Personnel Dept. and be done with it. Either way, what do I care?
If football ops, which according to the Bills is part of Player Personnel, and football coaches, are not considered football people at all, than I guess you are correct. It was only a bunch of accountants and marketing guys who wanted to be in on the loop. Don't get too bent out of shape with me if I disagree with this interpretation.
Anyway, we agree on one thing. This is becoming pointless, and no longer worth wasting out time. Please feel free to keep thinking your way is right, I'll think mine, and we'll both somehow manage to move on without consensus. No hard feelings...at least from my end.
I don't think your link shows what you think it shows, just as finding a "football operations consultant" under Rex's coaches doesn't show that "football operations" is under Rex. I think you need to read more carefully, understand the difference between "changes in player personnel" and "all these people are in player personnel which is under football ops reporting up through Brandon", and think a little bit - just who do you think is a GM's staff and why? My hope was to educate people about how a football team is organized, and clearly it isn't helping you, so *shrug*
I try to employ the Golden Rule and bring facts to a discussion wherever possible. I don't always succeed, but I don't care for people distorting what I say or introducing "straw men" into a discussion. And when you say "if... football coaches are not considered football people then I guess you are correct, it was only a bunch of accountants and marketing guys" that is exactly what you are doing, and it's total bullcrap. Reading through your responses to others, it would appear this might be a pattern of yours as well. You might want to think about that.
This is a message board, not something worth carrying hard feelings around - but I don't respect posters who distort what I say or introduce straw men. If you wish to interact with me in future, kindly refrain.
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If Bryce Brown starts week 1 and struggles, this place will explode, right? Calls for Whaley's head? Maybe deservedly so?
Bryce Brown was playing last night because he is "on the bubble", may not make the team, and likely won't dress if he does, unless McCoy is hurt.
Dixon and Wiliiams, though able to go, were likely not playing last night because they are ahead of Brown on the depth chart.
Brown has looked very good and is likely to start in place of McCoy if McCoy can't go yet, along with Williams (if ready). Brown has the most similar skill set to McCoy.
It does not appear that, even if they had kept Fred, he would have been the one to do that.
I agree that Brown has shown talent. But I don't think he was playing last night because he's #2 on the depth chart. I don't think Boobie is giving interviews to reporters calling himself a "dog on a chain that ain't ate(sic)" because he thinks he'll be sitting behind Brown.
I think Roman will adjust the gameplan for Williams and Dixon.
Then again I could be wrong.
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From last night, Bills GM Doug Whaley says he didn't act alone in releasing RB Fred Jackson. Said Rex sat in on it: http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/09/03/doug-whaley-says-he-didnt-act-alone-in-releasing-fred-jackson/
"In addition to head coach Rex Ryan, offensive coordinator Greg Roman and running backs coach Anthony Lynn, Whaley said that he talked to owner Terry Pegula before making the decision and assumed that Pegula's wife and co-owner, Kim, was also present. Whaley added that head coach Rex Ryan actually was with him to inform Jackson of the release.
“So he was in there with me when we told him together,” Whaley said. “Talked to the running backs coach."
Once again, The Rogue fails to deny that Rex and Roman were with him.
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Bryce fumbled twice? Unbelievable. This guy will never touch the ball during the regular season.
http://www.nfl.com/player/brycebrown/2534796/profile
0 fumbles
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Amazing how the stats fly every time Brown fumbles. Some put together these amazingly creative stats...like, "He's only fumbled and had it recovered by an opponent who subsequently converted it to a touchdown 0.89 times over the past 41 games, which ties him with Everette Bramblefoot of the Canton Bulldogs for fewest since 1922."
Dude is on such a short leash you could call it a choker. My guess: Ryan will never dress him, so there will be zero fumbles from Bryce in 2015.
There is nothing creative about a fumble per touch stat, but don't let facts get in your way, bub. However, I agree that Bryce is on a short leash, and may not make the team, and if he is the #4 back, like most #4 backs he won't dress. Also like most #4 backs, he'll become the #3 or #2 back when someone gets hurt, and he'll dress and be out there, and we'll get a chance to see what his fumbling propensities are.
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1) Prediction time: I think the Bills are poised to have a strong season. The defense has the potential to be one of the best ever and I believe that the offense will shock some folks from coast to coast. It's been a long time since we've had a playoff game at the Ralph - that's about to change as the Bills go 11-5 and break the 15-year playoff drought.
(It's been a blast posting here during preseason, but I will step aside in the regular season out of deference to Bill from NYC, as I feel it is his domain on TSW. Anybody interested in reading the column during the regular season can click the Facebook link below.)
ChevyVan, WTF? Love Bill from NYC but we're like Killer Robots from Venus by the Arrogant Worms: Everyone is Welcome!
Go Bills! 19-0
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Since Rex apparently has no viable plan B, what good does it do to call out Carpenter, who was one of the best kickers in the league last year? Shouldn't he be saying something like "we aren't worried. We have confidence that Dan will come through when the games matter."??? I don't get it.
You realize that no HC has a viable plan B for kicker?
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@AroundTheNFL: Doug Whaley: I didn't act alone in cutting Fred Jackson http://t.co/1dBRpfeurE
Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug, you rogue you - no one cares if the janitor and the water boy were with you. You failed to deny that Rex and Roman were with you.
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@TyDunne: Doug Whaley on Fred: Says "I gather information from everybody, from RB coach to OC to head coach." Said he talked to Terry Pegula.
@TyDunne: Whaley said that he informed Fred Jackson of the release with Rex Ryan.
@TyDunne: Whaley said he told Terry Pegula and assumed Kim was there. "Let me ask you this: Can you make a decision without informing your boss?"
Yolo,
You da Man. And I am liking Tyler Dunne quite a lot so far - seems to call it like he sees it but no axes to grind
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Graham's reports say he notified only Terry. Not Kim, not Rex.
Graham's tweets do not say that Rex was not notified. They say that "a lot of key people...in coaching staff" There are 26 coaches listed on the Bills Front Office and a number of them have assistants. That doesn't mean Rex wasn't notified.
Cappachio says Pegulas (plural) were notified.
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I'm not suggesting you agree with Graham's accusation he went rogue, I'm not sure why you even felt the need to make that point. Maybe you became confused and thought you were responding to a different post?
As far as football ops, I'm not sure why you keep repeating yourself without reading what I write. I have pointed out to you that one football ops staffer reports to Ryan and the rest is under Player Personnel department. Here, maybe this will help you. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-announce-changes-in-player-personnel-department/24a21e81-0340-47ff-9839-be31e882f40a
You said "I think we can agree that Graham is saying Whaley went rogue by cutting Fred against the wishes of his football people"
I don't agree that is what Graham said. That is why I felt the need to correct your apparent misstatement of my views. I am quite aware of the post to which I am responding, thanks for your concern.
You're doing exactly what you chide me for - repeating your self without reading what I write. I'll try one more time in case it helps anyone else then I'm outta here, educate yourself or don't, I don't care. A coach with the title "football operations consultant" does not mean he's a football ops staffer, he's Ryan's liason to football ops. You repeat that "one football ops staffer reports to Ryan". That's incorrect.
Football Ops and Player Personnel have different roles. Football ops report up through Brandon - they are not Whaley's "football people". Player personnel, most of the people at the link you posted, are the college and pro scouts and report through Whaley.
When Graham says that "football operations and administration" were left out, he's not talking about Whaley's football people or football people at all. Whether it causes a hit to Whaley's internal reputation if true, one can't infer that. It might, it might not. It might be a sign of an internal power struggle, it might be the dying gasp of the old guard adjusting to new ways, it might be a couple of Drama Llamas alerting the media that business as usual at a professional football club with a competent GM and a not atypical reporting structure took place.
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Flyrod
I'm not a fan of the "let's nickname putative stars" craze, and you're fighting against a nickname he had through college (T-mobile was his college QB moniker)
But I like this.
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Administration is Brandon's side, and probably refers to the M&T fiasco. Football ops I infer to mean Pro Player Personnel, which is the department under which "football ops" is listed. I also pointed out that a new "Football Ops Consultant" by the name of Pat Meyer is on Ryan's staff, and he reports directly to Rex. From the reading I've done, the roles of "football ops" is sort of a hybrid between cap administration and scouting/evaluation.
Anyway, we're going in circles. I think we can agree that Graham is saying Whaley went rogue by cutting Fred against the wishes of his football people, and failed to notify them or the operations team before pulling the trigger. One can infer this is a significant hit to his reputation internally if true.
Now, you may think that Graham is full of crap. You may think he's just making this up for ratings and clicks. I suggest if that were the case Rex, Russ and Terry would by now have made a statement in support of Whaley and wholly denied the "went rogue" allegations. Their silence is speaks volumes.
No, Negitivo, we cannot agree on this. Whaley controls the roster. He has the responsibility to seek input, but IT IS NOT GOING ROGUE if he doesn't listen to everyone. He CAN'T listen to everyone. There are always going to be WR coaches who insist they MUST have 6 guys and RB coaches who want to keep an extra guy until they know for sure McCoy is 100% and finance guys who say "you can't keep our 14th highest paid player as a backup, gotta cut him before the season" and ST coach who says "these are the guys I need to make it work. Then Whaley has to decide with Rex and get buy-in from Pegulas. Whaley doesn't have to call them all back in and explain his reasoning, much less accede to all their wishes. It is not going rogue if he doesn't. It is not going rogue if he decides, maybe for good reason, not to notify ops people before he tells Fred.
It is within his rights and his job description.
I don't think Graham is making this up - I think he has sources and they're saying what he's reporting. But I think his sources are leading him around by his bits and parts and he pulled the trigger and tweeted before sorting out what it really meant in his hurry to "get in a story" and generate buzz. And that he did.
If I were Whaley, I would NOT want the organization giving Graham the extra credence of calling a presser to address his remarks. If someone takes a dump on your lawn, you don't call a public presser to explain that your lawn is not a toilet. You clean it up quietly and take measures to address if it happens again.
By the way, Football Ops is under Brandon. But at least you've deduced correctly that it isn't headed by Ryan and it doesn't mean the coaches.
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Did you see the one snap from Urbik? Ball never reached Simms. Maybe that is what happened to EJ in that one game too?
I think Urbik has proven he is not qualified to be a backup center.
I think those are the tea leaves from bringing in the Jets backup center - a guy Ryan might know enough about to be confident rolling with on limited reps.
Media kind of made out the fumbled snaps were on EJ but maybe ...not
B...bye if so.
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Think Rex remembers his name yet? Or is he just "The Dispensible One"?
Rex remembers his name, those zingers are just his way of sending a memo
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It's kind of embarrassing how very impressed the local Bills media was with Matt Cassel...LOL
They watched him, too
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I found the correct links and edited my post. I'm posting them below for your convenience.
@ByTimGraham: There are a lot of key people in football operations, coaching staff and administration who were left out. https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/639063172104720384
@ByTimGraham: He deviated from the wishes of football ops and made the decision without any heads up. https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/639065107297882112
Thanks, Negativo. Appreciate that, and saw you also corrected in your original post.
The contention you made was ". If, as reported, he cut Fred unilaterally and secretly against the desires of football ops, which is headed by Ryan".
That was not reported, not at all, in those two tweets.
We've already explained that football ops means Brandon and his crew, not Ryan. And it really doesn't matter if Ryan and Whaley go against the wishes of football ops. They're the business and marketing guys and the money people. They used to get a say, in the Bad Old Bills Days, now they don't. Going against their wishes is not "going rogue", it's aligned with the current structure.
The roster decision makers are Rex Ryan/his coordinator and Whaley, and they need to keep the Pegulas, to whom they each report, in the loop. There is nothing in those tweets which says Rex was not part of the decision, or that it went against Rex's desires. That is an inference, and IMO not actually backed up in any way by those tweets.
It could be true that a bunch of the assistant coaches don't know, In choosing the cuts, the proper people to consult are the assistant coaches (all of them), the money guys (to be clear on salary cap implications), and possibly player personnel (to get a feel for who else might be out there as good or better, who might be on the cutting block or available by trade). The operative word is CONSULT.
Once their input is sought, Rex and Whaley have a perfect right to say "thank you, Gentlemen", retreat to their own conference room, and hash it out in private. Once they have a decision, they call up the Pegulas and say "this is what we're going to do". The coaches might like to know before anyone else, or to be consulted if it impacts them, but that's really at the discretion of Rex and Doug W.
Brandon has made a BIG DEAL of "“I couldn’t be more hands off” roster decisions, leaving that to "the football guys", so by his own account, not telling him or getting his buy in is NOT "rogue". It may also be true that in the case of Fred Jackson, Brandon or one of his staff said "this is a special case - if you cut him, give us a heads up before you announce it" and the news broke without that. But there, lots of stuff could be in play. There could be a simple misunderstanding of what "heads up" meant. The marketing guys could have wanted an impractical lead time of notice that would guarantee news would leak and M&T would know before Fred did, and Rex/Whaley or both could have said "nuts to that, we're telling Fred first Bite Me Ops". Or, while Whaley was dialing up whoever wanted to know, the news could have leaked out from Jackson's side. Who knows?
None of us - not you, not me, and not Timmy.
Sal Capaccio essentially said on WGR that Graham is Full of
on Whaley with regard to the notion of not having the right people in the know about the release of Fred.Rock. But I bet if Whaley waits for a public retraction or apology from Timmah, his coffee will get moldy or his Coke mighty stale.
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@https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/639065107297882112
@https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/639065107297882112
These are the tweets that I find the most damning. He also claimed in a follow up tweet that the coaching staff didn't know about cutting Fred, but I don't have time to hunt it down. Anyway, the point is clear that Graham says his inside sources report Whaley went against the wishes of coaches/football ops and surprised them all when making the cut.
Regarding football ops, it's tricky deducing who they report to. Pat Meyer is listed under Rex's staff as "Football Operations Consultant", so the waters seem muddy on who Graham was referring to in "ops". That said, I find it difficult to believe Graham's sources had their panties in a wad because a low level data processing dude wasn't informed.
That said, you're right about inference. He is being very evasive about exactly who knew what and when they knew it. I detest Graham, and always have. However, he was right about his sources for Pegula purchasing the Bills and says these are the same sources. Much as I hate him, and disrespect his sensationalist journalism, I'm buying what he's selling on this report.
Negativo, I'm afraid those are exactly the same tweet reference number repeated twice. Moreover, both take me to "Sorry, That Page Doesn't Exist".
When I search Tim Graham's twitter, this is what I find and all I find (sorry, I'm not great at linking Twitter). Nowhere do I find anything where Graham is quoted as saying Whaley went against the wishes of coaches, or of football ops - sorry! If you can find the actual links, I'd be happy to take a look, but until then it is not clear to me nor have I seen Graham explain what he meant by "going rogue". You can buy what Graham's selling in this report, which is that Whaley went rogue, whatever that means- but I do think you could refrain from making inferences unless you can support them. And there's a lot of executive VP and senior VPs charged with marketing and communications and the like, who might conceivably be upset at being out of the loop on something with a big PR impact, but who really have no legitimate seat at the table for a football roster decision - no one has suggested it was "low level data processing dude" who wasn't informed.
Whaley did speak with Terry and Kim Pegula before Fred Jackson was cut. Two sources tell me they were surprised w/decision but supported.
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"Being in the loop" would prevent one of Bills' biggest sponsors from launching expensive Fred Jackson ad campaign today. It's embarrassing.
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Bills G.M. Doug Whaley "went rogue" in cutting Fred Jackson, via @ByTimGraham http://wp.me/p14QSB-9Q6M
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PS it's not muddy at all what "Football Operations" is or whom they report to. They're administrative. They report up through Brandon, in the case of the "Director of Football Operations" in the media guide he reports up through Football Administration, Overdorf. "Football Operations Consultant" is, I think, Rex's liason to Football Operations, charged with making sure Football Ops knows what Rex thinks the team needs for their next practice or roadtrip (more ladders, more tackling dummies, better PA system etc). You really don't need to take my word for it - you can google around what a "Director of Football Operations" does and what Football Operations means, but it doesn't mean Rex.
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Tim Graham 
ProFootballTalk
Dan Carpenter injury (update - put on notice)
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Indeed, but are there any teams who were carrying two kickers or auditioning kickers who might be cutting one?