Hapless Bills Fan
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While you are probably right, he seems to have gotten a lot more chances than other high-pick/top-5 busts. Carr, Jamarcus, Joey Harrington all come to mind, and I can't recall any of them getting as many second meaningful chances and multiple rounds of guaranteed money as Bradford.
Jabustus probably doesn't belong in the conversation with the other guys. David Carr and Joey Harrington both got chances from more than one team - in particular Carr. Multiple rounds of guaranteed money, No, but I think that just reflects the crazy nature of the NFL QB market today.
I think it also reflects Bradford's injury history, there's been a nuance of "tough luck for the kid and we haven't seen what he has yet", but that could be wearing off Real Soon Now.
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Does it appear that the Jets are panicking over their contract stance with Fitz that might lead him to leaving? It doesn't to me. Whatever option they have to take, Smith or whatever pedestrian qb they can find, they are willing to take that route. What does that say how they value Fitz? It's certainly not a ringing endorsement.
The Bills have recently been in this qb quandary situation. They signed a virtually retired and out of shape Orton just prior to the start of the season. Was it a good option? Not necessarily but it was the best option available. It wasn't too long ago that Buddy made it clear that Fitz was over-paid and needed to take a pay cut if he were to stay. He left.
My point is that organizations constantly make talent value judgments expressed through contract offers on players. Especially after watching Fitz's game with the Bills in Buffalo their GM's position seems very reasonable and understandable to me.
You keep shifting the frame. No one I see here is arguing that the Jets are panicking, or that they might, for various reasons, have to take the "best option available" even if it kind of, well, sucks.
Up until this point, you've been saying that Fitz is "garbage" and the Jets can "easily" and "cheaply" sign someone else who is just as good. My point is that they can't - QB even of Fitz proven level just aren't that readily available - not that they're "panicking".
The Jets are in a very salary-cap limited situation. They can't even afford the offer they extended to Fitz without clearing some space. Whether it is reasonable and understandable for them to not clear more space, depends upon how they want to perform next season. Maybe they plan to tank. I hope players and agents are able to see that more factors than "talent value judgements" are in play or the Bills risk having Taylor mightily insulted at his current salary.
Arguably, the Bills decision not to extend a renegotiation offer Fitz was willing to accept, cost them more money, wins, and possibly EJ's development. Someone called it - "Fitz is a QB that multiple teams have moved on from and done a wholly inadequate job of replacing"
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That was a fun piece. Thanks Yolo!
Wait, CornerBlitz is the same as Yolo?
Just watched the video and 2 questions:
Were the Bills not interested in Myles Jack? And, how long before Monos is nabbed to be a GM somewhere?
I think the implication is they were interested in Myles Jack - Whaley said he was on their draft board - but they did not have a 1st round grade on him.
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One of the most over rated backs in NFL history. The main attraction to Lynch was his "off kilter" personality with a few decent runs mixed in. Good luck Least Mode.
Them grapes got some pucker-power, eh?
I would have loved to have Marshawn's 2011-2014 seasons with 1200, 1590, 1257, and 1306 yds rushing, 6 years in SEA at 4.4 ypc - in 2012 5 ypc. Tuck in 200-300 receiving yards and very low fumbles per touch and yeah, he can have whatever kind of personality he likes. "Money" Lynch.
No. Bitterness means I actually thought he was a good back but we lost him. I never thought he was a good back. His accolades are a product of media hype and Seattle never having won **** in the history of their franchise.
Then sorry, in a football sense you're just being silly. He was not mediocre, and he was good, with occasional flashes of greatness. And no, "good" does not mean "HOF" or "great", it means "good". Talented, productive player over a significant stretch of games; difference maker in the post-season. 6 years, >6000 yds in Seattle.
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If need be the Jets could go with Geno Smith. Or if they want to go on the garbage market they can pursue at very cheap prices qbs such as: Mike Glennon, Matt Moore, Zack Mettenberg, Chad Henne, Shaun Hill, Matt McCloin, Brandon Weeden, Dan Orlovsky, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Colt McCoy, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer, Matt Hasseleck, Derek Anderson, Matt Schaub, Bruce Gradkowski, Landry Jones. Within this pile of mostly garbage there are plenty of candidates who are in the Fitz caliber of talent.
The Jets have set down the marker to Fitz. I'm sure the organization is willing to insignificantly up its offer. But as I have repeatedly said in my many posts on this topic they are not unafraid to move on from him if they can't get him at the price they have in mind. It is still very early in the offseason. If need be they will seek an in-house or outside the organization option to replace the qb that started for them last year. You may think their strategy is unwise but the organization apparently believes it makes sense for them.
I see now we get into your definition of "readily available" and "very cheap prices".
Exactly one of the QB on your list is a FA - Christian Ponder. Well, technically two, but Matt Hasselbeck is under contract now as an ESPN analyst.
To me, "readily available" means, available to be signed as a negotiation between the player and the team. Most of the players you name are currently under contract as backups (see below), meaning their teams would then be scrambling to replace them with an equivalent value (to that team) QB - one who knows their system or can pick it up with limited reps. Teams would need a substantial motivation for the trade -a good player that fits a hole they currently have, or a good draft pick. I think that precludes these guys from being "readily available" at "very cheap prices". They cost salary, plus a pick or player.
That's without delving into the question of whether or not, as QB, these guys are actually reasonably perceived AT THIS DATE as being no drop-off from Fitz. (For example, in their prime, Fitz wasn't fit to carry Matt Schaub or Matt Hasselbeck's jock - but that was Then, this is Now.) That would really be a difficult argument for you to support in most cases. Frankly, in many if not most of these cases, they'd be better off going with Geno Smith as "the devil they know" who might improve.
With this list, it's now clear that this is not an argument or a discussion - your point of view that Fitz is "garbage" who could be replaced by the Jets with a number of "readily available" QB at "very cheap prices" is essentially an article of religious faith to you, and not subject to change for any argument or proof to the contrary. You, like the Jets, really don't have a backup plan.
And they're the Jets. I'm OK with that!
JohnC's list:
Mike Glennon: under contract to the Bucs through 2016. Might go somewhere in 2017for a chance to start if the Bucs can't resign him - but that doesn't help this season.
Matt Moore: under contract to the Dolphins. Hasn't started a game in 5 years and has completed 5 of 11 passes in last 3 years. Mentor value.
Zack Mettenberg: under contract to the Titans. Threw 4 TD and 7 INT as part of an 0-4 record last year.
Chad Henne: under contract to the Jags, veteran backup mentor to Bortles. Just given $3M roster bonus; not going anywhere unless the trade offer is Big and Juicy. Mentor value.
Shaun Hill: under contract to the Vikings. Mentor value.
Matt McGloin: under contract to the Raiders.
Brandon Weedon: under contract to the Texans. Just given $0.94M roster bonus, not going anywhere unless the trade offer is Big and Juicy.
Dan Orlovsky: under contract to the Lions
Blaine Gabbert: under contract to the 49ers
Christian Ponder: currently a free agent. The only one on the list!
Colt McCoy: under contract to the Redskins
Ryan Mallet: under contract to the Ravens
Brian Hoyer: under contract to the Bears. Statistically comparable to Fitz and replaced him in Houston. Jets had their chance at him and passed.
Matt Hasselbeck: currently an ESPN analyst. Age 40.
Derek Anderson: under contract to the Panthers.
Matt Schaub: under contract to the Falcons
Bruce Gradkowski: just signed a 1 year contract with the Steelers.
Landry Jones: under contract to the Steelers, but in view of the above, might get cut.
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Yep, plus it's Cleveland. You can pretty much count on them to take the wrong path. Maybe I'm reading the contract details wrong, but if they trade instead of cut McCown they are only on the hook for 1.3 instead of 2.3 dead money.
Good question, Gary, it depends upon the details of how the contract is written and what the other team pays him, I believe. For example, if the other team renegotiated his contract to give him a signing bonus this year and $100k in salary, I think Cleveland would owe him $900k because he is guaranteed $1M salary. But if the other team just picks up his contract with the trade, I believe you are correct.
Of course, then there's the question of what would the Jets have to give up in trade.
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This is exactly why I made this thread. What if he DID want to play for Rex (and/or Kromer) again? What if he could beat out Miller? What if he's better than Velasco? He can play all along the interior of the line, just like Velasco. He was a college tackle, so in an absolute emergency, he has that versatility too, although it would likely be disastrous, sometimes you have situations where a guy from the interior does have to slide out.
I think the Bills ultimately keep Velasco, or Slauson, but not both. They only paid Velasco an $80k signing bonus, and he has an $885k salary as a 7-9 yr vet.
Slauson is younger and would seem to be an upgrade. If they can sign him for a reasonable deal, I think the Bills actually could keep both through training camp, to be sure Slauson wasn't released for performance/undocumented or underdocumented medical reasons a la Chris Williams.
Slauson's salary with the Bears for this season was to be $2.75M.
There's a bunch of media stuff in Chi town puzzled about the Slauson release.
Says they are looking at him for RT but let's be honest, they would move him to G if Miller doesn't pan out
Why would they look at Slauson for RT? He's played his entire career at G and some C. Square peg, round hole?
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Not great--his fastest 10s was 1.69. For comparison, Shaq's was 1.64
Bandit, do you (or does anyone here) have an idea how significant that difference is to the game of football?
I could easily see situations where 0.05 sec faster on a track, in shorts and running shoes, is negated by football smarts and superior reaction speed.
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According to NFL.com, he's "missing the sand in his pants." Apparently, that's a bad thing.
WTF does that even mean?
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Evidently in Mexico and China (and I hear NC) the meat is so loaded with PEDs that it can trigger drug test failures; I am sure the NFLPA is trying to find some way to waive it or use this as justification for increase amounts of allowable amounts of PEDs allowed in test. I wonder if they can use same argument for MJ since in some places in the world they use Marijuana leaves when they smoke meat.
That so? Wow, I had no idea - what places?
Does the US import beef from either of those places?
And most important...when a farmer or market advertises "grass-fed beef" are the cows fed...you know.....
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Sorry if already posted. I searched but didn't find it.
http://www.scout.com/nfl/bills/story/1666353-bills-had-19-players-with-1st-round-grades
This is cool, thanks for posting!
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I would say Josh McCown. Cleveland just signed RGIII to an appreciable contract and drafted the rookie. McCown is the definition of mediocrity but in 8 games last year had a completion % just under 64% and a QBR of 93. Which were statistically better than Fitzpatrick's 16 games. He's scheduled to count 5 million against the cap this year and odds are he will be traded or cut.
That's an interesting suggestion. Cleveland has $1M in guaranteed salary and $1.3M in pro-rated signing bonus as "dead money" so they only get about half that $5M back if they cut McCown. And with RGIII's injury history, I would think they would not want to rely on Kessler should he go down. I see them wanting RGIII to compete with McCown so that one way or another they have something approaching a real NFL QB.
Still, if they could acquire McCown, you're right that he's probably in the same tier as Fitz for talent and experience. So that's one, with an asterisk because at present he's under contract and would require a trade (but a trade for his current salary would slot nicely into the Jets meagre QB budget).
I was thinking Denver might wind up a logical choice. They haven't seemed interested in Fitzy at all.
Reportedly there was interest/conversations but they balked at Fitzy's asking price.
What is going on here ? Famous Jameis and Bortles getting the hook for fitzpicksix? Terrific.
What is going on here is indeed a good question. Jameis and Bortles aren't likely going anywhere, but possibly Bartles and Jaymes are involved. If NC cow farmers drink that stuff.
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Could be an injury complication, but I think it has more to do with scheme fit, combined with the drafting of Lawson and Washington.
If it was an injury issue, would they be able to release him? He tore his ACL in the first preseason game last August. He was placed on season-ending IR.
I know if a player is injured, he can't be cut without an injury settlement and veterans often have injury guarantees in their contracts. OTOH, although Wynn was drafted in 2009 and thus is nominally a 6 year veteran, he kind of kicked around the league, signing with 4 teams mostly as depth.
I think it has to do with scheme fit. I was not happy to hear he was being asked to lose weight and play OLB, because you know, that kind of move has just worked so well for the Bills.
btw how is Carrington doing these days..
Still listed as a FA. Quad must have healed up.
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Fitz is a mediocre qb that shouldn't be starting on any team with serious aspirations. You portray the Jets' situation as if it is dire. They are not acting as if it is. Who will replace Fitz if he leaves the franchise? I don't know. But mediocre qbs are not difficult to find. Just search through the nearest garbage heap and you will find an abundance of comparable garbage to work with.
John, this is becoming increasingly lame on your part. You reiterate that mediocre QB are readily available, but when asked to name available QB options for the Jets, you repeatedly decline. Now you've progressed to name calling Fitz, saying "just search through the nearest garbage heap...abundance of comparable garbage".
Please Stand and Deliver - if there is an abundance of "comparable garbage" to Fitz available for the Jets, you surely should be able to ID a few. Let's say 3. Name 3 QB comparable to Fitz who are readily available to the Jets. I'll even settle for 2.
Otherwise, please acknowledge that it's simply not true that mediocre NFL QB comparable to Fitz are readily available, because if it's true and they are, you really ought to be able to find a couple to name.
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Anyone with a history of less failure?
Cool viewpoint, care to name a few available?
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I think ur misunderstanding me. What I am saying is the way in which Roman is packaging pass concepts makes it difficult on a QB period. If he can't throw to single wr he has to come all the away across the field to his second read. That's why dilfer said that the footwork doesn't match up. When Qbs drop back and hit top of the drop that's first read. Hitch up once that's second read third/check down is next. There is no progression of footwork and depth of routes. Instead he hits top of drop no one open. Scans backside zone beaters and those guys r covered bc the defenders plaster WRs bc the timing is nonnexistent.
You're absolutely right, I didn't understand you and missed that connecting link you draw between Roman's play concepts and Taylor's footwork. I thought you were saying it was a 1 read offense. And I read Dilfer as saying that Taylor was not being properly coached as to footwork.
If you're right, it's a pretty scary indictment of Roman's passing offense, and a probable reason why Kaep's progression stalled/ regressed.
I"m not sure what you're saying exactly matches up with what I believe I've seen on all-22 and condensed/slow though. I have seen open guys, and Taylor either doesn't see them or has flushed out of the pocket so can't make those throws. And I still think Dilfer may have meant that Taylor is not being properly coached with his footwork, not that the play is designed so as to make progression impossible.
Anyway, great site, and I'll be enjoying it during the season.
So...the Pegula's put Rex on the "thinnest of ice" because of...Donald Trump?
Seems odd if so but...Rex is a highly-public "face of the franchise" for the Bills right now, and I can see a female, immigrant owner being highly PO'd about Rex's decision to attach himself (and by association, the Bills) with Trump. Whoever Rex supports politically is his business and his right to choose, but I thought it was a poor idea to pull the Bills into it.
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Here’s what I was thinking as the Draft unfolded and based on my perception of our needs: QB backup, WR starting, OT ® or OG, ILB (w/ pass coverage skills) … I didn’t see DE/OLB as such the tremendous need that the team did. Everyone talks about how great Ryan’s D mind is, well then he should have been able to make due on the edge with Lawson, Hughes, and Dareus who’s supposed to be playing DE in the 3-4, which makes no sense. Before the Draft there were players on the roster that logged 35 sacks in 2014 under Schwartz, if the "defensive genius" Ryan couldn't get that from them then he's a phony. Either way, the middle of our LB-ing corp was, and still is, bereft of pass D skills.
To start, I wouldn’t have traded our 4th pick (117) or traded up at all in this relatively deep draft, there should have been no need to. I may have traded down.
1/19: Treadwell: Would have instantly upgraded our passing game and perhaps he would have even outshone Watkins this fall. All of the appropriate WRs for us all went just picks afterwards except for Fuller who we had no chance at in round 2.
2/49: Cody Whitehair (OG): Would have all but instantly made the OL from LT to RG solid and increased the odds of solid play from one of our RTs.
3/80: Prescott, he'll be the best QB in this draft after Goff.
4/117: Kentrell Brothers (ILB) Better pass D skills than Ragland
Also, undrafted Scooby Wright, ILB from Arizona, would have been a fantastic 6th round pick.
IMO that Draft would have added to wins and buffered our QB/WR situations as well while bolstering the OL.
Taskers,
I'm sure you're right about the impact of your draft on OL & WR. I have no opinion on college QB 'cuz I don't know enough. How would this draft have helped our D, specifically our glaring holes at LB and DE?
Brothers may make it in the NFL - he's got the fire in his tummy, and some analysts had him going in the 2nd round. Guess who they had going in the 1st? Mizzou is the one program I know a little about because of proximity. I thought Chase Daniel was a better QB than Blaine Gabbert but, that size thing, and the NFL scouts just wouldn't listen to me.
Mizzou guys seem to have trouble translating to the NFL (see fellow undersized, slow SEC honors player Sam, Michael). Brothers is small for an NFL LB at 6' and most people seem to feel he needs to really work on his pass D skills and that 4.89 40 time and those short arms won't help. I think that's a reason why he went in the 5th round. Draft scout had Brothers rated #2 out of 182 LB. Guess who they rated #1? 
Ragland isn't a track star, but he is faster.We could not have picked up Scooby Wright undrafted. He was drafted by the Browns in the 7th round.
I think it's easy to sit there and call Whaley names from an "All Offense" perspective. It becomes harder when one actually has to balance both sides of the ball.
19 - Shaq - Edge/Clemson
41 - Ragland - ILB/Alabama
80 - Braxton Miller - WR/Ohio State
139 - Cardale - QB/Ohio State
156 - DJ Reader - DT/Clemson
192 - Kyle Murphy - OT/Stanford
218 - Ka'imi Fairbairn - K/UCLA
I like this too. It balances both sides a bit better. Might take a safety in the 7th though can't beef at a kicker.
So let me caveat this by saying that I don't know what Jack's medical report said, but I am presuming by all 32 passing on him that it was serious enough to create some genuine doubt about his long term future. If you feel good about Jack he is the pick, no question. So on that basis:
#19 - Shaq Lawson - Edge/Clemson (no change);
#41 - Reggie Ragland - LB/Alabama (no change);
#80 - Connor Cook - QB/Michigan State;
#139 - Kyle Murphy - OT/Stanford;
#156 - DJ Reader - DT/Clemson;
#192 - Jeremy Cash - S/Duke;
#218 - Robby Anderson - WR/Temple;
I like this too
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Rd1 (19) - Shaq Lawson, DE, Clemson (Unchanged)
Rd2 (41) - Reggie Ragland, ILB, Alabama (Unchanged)
Rd3 (80) - Braxton Miller, WR, OSU/Pharoh Cooper, WR, South Carolina - If pushed I'd take Braxton here, but I could make an argument for either.
Rd4 (139) - Cardale Jones, QB, OSU (Unchanged)
Rd5 (156) - D.J. Reader, NT, Clemson
Rd6 (192) - Kyle Murphy, OT, Stanford
Rd6 (218) - Jalen Mills, S, LSU
I like this
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cept
- We didnt take C. Jones in the 1st round like they did with J. Russell
and
Listenbee is a football player....not a track star....and said as much
but other then that?
Listenbee said he's a football player, not a track star
back when he was drafted, Goodwin said something similar
Time will tell
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The "groomed" QB? Don't knock it. Da Bills have one of those "groomed" QB, and yes, he is indeed elusive
Come, TT was drafted to cover for a young QB for missed games due to injury. No different than hundreds of other backups before him.
It was a joke, Son, a play on words....groomed....TT...have you seen how he dresses? and have you seen defenses flapping around like chickens trying to capture him?
Seriously, though, while TT was clearly drafted to be a backup, the net effect of those 4 years was that he got to sit and learn and be coached...in other words, he WAS groomed.
That is probably what the Iggles are hoping for with Chase Daniel.
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Ahh...back to the ever elusive "groomed QB", of course! There a long and proud tradition of great NFL QBs highly drafted to be "groomed" for a few years before they are ripe for the "franchise".
The "groomed" QB? Don't knock it. Da Bills have one of those "groomed" QB, and yes, he is indeed elusive
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He lost all that weight to play OLB too. He probably can't wait to eat again.
I thought Jairus Wynn was a good player but I like the idea of releasing him more than I like the idea of trying to move him to OLB or TE or whatever bright idea the Bills Brain Trust had. Frankly, releasing him to find a team where he's a better "fit" sounds like best for both sides.
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The NFL is a system predicated on value. It isn't only about who starts or doesn't, it is about worth/cost$$$ relative to talent. Do I need to remind you that we let Fitz leave because we weren't going to keep him at a certain price level even as a starter.
I don't quite know where to start here.
I guess you do need to remind me "that we let Fitz leave because we weren't going to keep him at a certain price level even as a starter" because Nix was taped and published saying that Fitz was getting too much money for a backup: "We just can't afford to pay that kind of money for a guy who's fighting for probably a backup job." There was a coaching change, an offensive system change to a system with totally different terminology than Fitz had played in, and quite probably a talent evaluation mistake ("worth" in your words) putting a higher value on the talents of TJax and Kolb, as factors.
Second, the NFL is a system predicated on a lot of things, but any sort of uniform correlation of worth/cost relative to talent is certainly not one of them. All over the league, we have guys on their first contracts getting paid a fraction of what FAs arguably in the declining years of their production earn. The rookies get paid peanuts, the stars get paid 10s of millions, and the "middle class" gets squeezed out by the salary cap.
Do you honestly believe giving Fitz the same contract as Chase Daniel is any sort of "worth/$$ relative to talent" (or value to the team) metric? Or giving Osweilier the contract he received? Houston overpaid for Osweiler not because that was any sort of fair worth/price evaluation but because the HC O'Brien replaced just won the superbowl, the QB O'Brien traded away played to a better record, and if O'Brien doesn't snap the 9-7 doldrums of the last 2 years he's likely to be done so he rolled the dice.
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For me on the o-line it comes down to this - is the Bills line perfect? No far from it. However, those teams we keep mentioning are evidence that you can win in the NFL running the ball without a perfect line if you:
1. commit to the run and have good backs;
2. have a creative run game coordinator (we have the best in the business imo in Greg Roman);
3. play good defense to ensure you don't have to abandon the run early in games.
EDIT: would I have liked to see some competition added at tackle? Definitely, but the draft didnt fall that way.
This pretty much sums up the way I see it.
Add in that
1) the coaches who have the film of games and practices are in a much better position than the fans are to make a call about whether a player is showing progress and may be expected to improve his 2nd year in the NFL, or in a system. (For Miller, it'll be his 2nd year in the NFL. For Henderson, 2nd year in the system.)
2) If I was asked to rate which areas of the team had the biggest holes/need for improvement I would have put LB as #1 priority, and DE as #2 priority. Our draft didn't quite fall that way but I'll take it.
Sam Bradford Wants Out of Philly; Crawls Back to Eagles
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Maybe that's what Bradford wants, to reunite with Chip Kelly? He did have the only year of his career where he looked 100% legit playing for Chip.
I can't be objective about Bradford. I am NOT a team-formerly-known-as-StL-Rams fan, but living in Stl it's hard to avoid and Sam Bradford was a total House of Pain for the Rams.
Bradford, drafted #1 overall and expected to be the Franchise Savior, before the current CBA/rookie wage scale so they paid him a ton - 6 year, $78M, $50M guaranteed, biggest rookie QB contract ever. Having all their eggs in the Bradford basket, he then proceeded to have 2 decent years, 2 years where he missed a total of half a season, and 1 year where he was out for the season before it started. You can't blame a guy for getting injured, and he's a classic pocket passer, it's not like he courts injury by scrambling all over. But one can wonder if the Rams treatment of his knee and/or Bradford's choices in treatment were all that - did he refuse to wear a knee brace? Did the medical staff deem it unnecessary?
His contract crippled the Rams. They didn't have his services, but they didn't have the money to pursue anyone else, either.
So I can understand the attraction Bradford has in a QB-starved market, but even with teams like the Broncs that have "everything but a QB" and the 49ers that have major questions at QB, I'm kind of like "don't do it, don't jump!". And I personally think Bradford should say "yes, sir, thank you sir, I appreciate my helmet sir, please let me get in the playbook sir" for his chance.