thebandit27

Well, the D looks okay

If the argument is that they aren't going to use him, and therefore he wasn't worth what he wants to be paid, then at least the trade makes sense on its face. The implication of that, however, is quite disturbing: the team does not feel that a WR of Watkins' caliber is part of assembling a championship team?

Boldin for sure...can you show me an example with Matthews? It's not something that I've noticed is why I'm asking. Also, that's not really the point. Sammy is a WR that opposing DCs need to game plan against--Matthews/Boldin are not.

Like I said, he's good at what he does...it took me a long time to catch on

Well, first Matthews needs to drag his injury-prone a$$ onto the field and stop being such a kitty.

No, he's not serious.

Yep...the biggest statistical indicator of how much of a difference he makes is Taylor's YPA with Watkins (8.8) vs without (6.2) Shocking.

I cannot think of a poster on this board for whom a greater degree of irony would apply

Football players are prone to injury; that's not precisely a hot-take. He missed 3 games in his first 2 seasons, playing through most of his issues. One season of missing substantial time out of 3 doesn't mean that it's the norm. For you to characterize him as missing half-seasons with regularity based on injuries accumulated celebrating is categorically false, as is calling him a half-gimp...and, for that matter, so is stating his "potential" in the past-tense. You're talking about a guy that produces on par with the Julio/Brown/OBJ types whenever he's been given similar target shares, which I know is unpopular to acknowledge these days, but true nevertheless.

that's a really poor assumption considering that it would be 180 degrees opposite of his performance to date.

You don't remember him running over Ryan Shazier in his final game at Clemson? It's hard to make contested catches when the QB doesn't really throw contested balls. Though I would say that his 2015 game against KC almost exclusively featured contested catches against Smith/Parker/Berry. I remember the one that set up his 2nd TD vividly--he beat Berry to the ball and then finished the catch by tossing Parker to the ground with one hand. Again, you need to watch him operate from his release. He routinely mauls his way through the jam.

Not physical is the last thing I think of with Sammy. Just watch his release off the line--he straight plows DBs. It's one of the reasons that teams give up the short stuff to him so willingly--if you get in his face he's going to steamroll through you and climb over the top with his speed.

What????

I actually am beginning to like this guy...seriously.

Nope...the focus is on who is the better receiver. Sammy is easily better...the only reason Matthews has slightly more yards/rec/TDs is that he's played in 9 more games. I can't make it any clearer. Same answer as the other thread: So now you're going to boil career per-game production down to a 7-game stretch in which he missed 3 full games and most of 2 others? Please don't ever change!

So now you're going to boil career per-game production down to a 7-game stretch in which he missed 3 full games and most of 2 others? Please don't ever change!

Now go ahead and compare their per-target and per-game production. I dare you. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. The simple fact is that the only trait in Matthews favor is games played. Everything else goes to Sammy. You'll continue to obfuscate, because that's what you do--and, to your credit, you do it quite well; you've got a lot of posters convinced that you're serious about the things you write. Also, fun fact: one of the two players is available to his team right now...which one?

That's probably the best way to summarize the discussion. Nope. All Watkins has is better production on a per-target basis. You cannot and will not address that because it runs counter to your diatribe. He's the better player, and it's really not close. All Matthews has on him is 9 additional games of availability. Period. You can bold it all you want, but that's the only thing you're betting on...and guess what? One of them is available to his team right now...who is it?

So you're going to join Bill_with_it in completely mischaracterizing the opposing argument for no good reason? Very well then... Folks that oppose the trade have been very clear in their criticisms: Watkins, when healthy, is the better receiver. Yes, availability was an issue last year. In his first 2 seasons, he missed 3 games, but played through other injuries to be more productive than Matthews. He had not missed a single TC practice this season, so there is absolutely no reason to suspect that he would miss significant time this year. None. As to the issue at hand, the point is quite clear: which of those receivers has been anywhere near as explosive as Sammy? Which has produced even close to the number of big plays? Let's not speculate; let's use real actual data.

He posted this in another thread, and I took the opportunity to pick it apart. The SPARQ ratings and speed scores are not in any way predictive of big play ability. Sammy has made more big plays and been more productive than Matthews on a per-target basis, and it's not close. The only reason Matthews has slightly better reception/yard/TD numbers is that he's played in 9 more games than Sammy.

I know you aren't actually being serious, but nevertheless, for those that care, I'll repeat:

Probably...that would've been an easy lay-up for them. That said, with 6 picks in the top 90 they should be able to grab an Azeem Victor-type that can play that role.

And yet... - Matthews has had only 1 season during which he was more productive than Sammy, and that would be the season during which he played 6 more games - Matthews has never averaged more than 13.0 yards per reception in any year of his career, whereas Sammy has averaged over 15.0 in every year of his career - Matthews leads Watkins by slightly more than 200 yards receiving and 2 TDs--total--over 3 years. This is despite playing in 9 more games and receiving 74 more targets SPARQ ratings and speed scores can say whatever they like; straight-line speed whilst wearing underwear and running against air don't predict explosiveness on the field. Sammy has easily out-paced Matthews in terms of big play ability and production on a per-target basis. Thanks...confirms what we're discussing here.

I don't doubt that there will be a stark difference in deep passing plays from when Sammy was here; Dennison himself discussed how he prefers a more lateral passing game.

This is the one that I always think of when it comes to Sammy displaying both elite traits: https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/916060-video-sammy-watkins-burns-former-college-teammate-bashaud-breeland-for-td One step and he's gone, then he tracks the ball perfectly.