Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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I think phypon's line
shows that he knows that it would not get to the point of fans making football decisions(which I agree would be catastrophic).
The goal was to make a change for the good in Buffalo, which it might do.
And this is just my take, but just because the NFL is against the GB model does not in any way mean that it is a bad one. It just means that the rest of the owners see it as some sort of threat to their own pocketbooks.
I didnt say the way GB is run is viewed as bad...I said it adds to how far fetched this original post was because its impossible to happen per the NFL's stance on it and just another reason why I put a
as just my oringal response which started these lines of posting... -
The issue I have is that a lot of people are ASSUMING Trent will turn out to be the Akili Smiths, Ryan Leafs, Andre Wares, Todd Marinovichs, Heath Shulers, Cade McNowns, etc, etc, etc as you say. How, with what we have seen in his good and bad, can you make that judgement yet. I don't think one can.
True...but here is my issue with Trent, who I was high on coming into the year and even bought his jersey and still wear it every Sunday.
His comeback wins were a little over rated. When you comeback and win, it over shadows the struggles earlier in the game. 2 of those comeback wins he was bailed out by amazing plays by other players. If we lose those games, people start talking about how Trent stuggled most of the game instead of how he led the game winning drive. Even the Hardy catch was in my mind a lucky break as Hardy has shown to drop a lot of easeier passes and that pass was not a great pass, Hardy just made a great play.
Still, something has to be said for making the comeback and getting us the win, but if you look at his overall body of work in those games, they were mostly marginal and against HORRID defenses and teams. Against Oakland he was terrible when pressured and it wasnt until Oakland stopped bringing as much pressure that he started to move the ball. In fact its also why he struggled against St. Louis too...
So, fast forward to post concussion. He not only continues to be marginal (exception KC) but also begins to just stink it up with turnovers, bad decisions, and a complete lack of confidence. Now, I am FINE with a young QB being marginal and stuggling as it is to be expected.
My REAL issue comes down to this...
He regressed even more when faced with pressure and adversity then became so gun shy that when we gave him tons of time to throw he still couldnt let the ball go, even when replays showed WR's open. The TRUE GREATS you listed above kept slinging the ball when they struggled...they kept pressing on and played through it. I did not see that from Trent.
So now we have a guy who has proven physically FRAGILE at every level of football he has played now showing he may potentially also have a FRAGILE mind set and ego. Thats not good when his biggest selling point was his alleged poise and confidence.
I want the kid to turn it around, but he has shown me something that really concerns me and something not a lot of players overcome...I hope hes the exception.
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Ohhh. its tough to repeat.
Beat the other teams
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The original post was a crazy idea, but it wasn't a stupid one.
To say that fans don't know football is dumb. Most uf us played football at one time, and not just at the high school level either. It's not rocket science.
Also, the people of Green Bay, Wisconsin seem to be doing okay running their team.
Because you understand the rules of football as a player (I played football and started through college on a top 10 ranked team) doesnt mean you "KNOW" football from a decision making side, understanding the COMPLEX rules of the salary cap, identifying talent (not just watching a few highlights on ESPN), understanding the immensly complicated schemes and systems to maximize your players talents, etc, etc.
Very DISTINCT difference between knowing the rules of football and truly understanding football. I personally would NOT ever make the claim to know all the eseential ends and outs about running a football team, and I assure you I know quite a bit about football.
Second, GB is such a poor example to go to. Do you even understand how that works up there or just making assumptions? The fans dont pick the coach as the idea presented in the original post suggest we do by raising our own money and picking the guy, so how this is a comparison is beyond me. Second, to add to how far fetched this original post is, if you truly understood what was going on in GB you would also know that NFL is dead set against what GB has ever being duplicated again for another NFL team...
So thats a double
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Year Age Team Position Games Games Record Comp Att Comp% Yrds TD INT
Played Started
T. Aikman 1989 23 DAL QB 11 11 0-11-0 155 293 52.9 1749 9 18
1990 24 DAL QB 15 15 7-8-0 226 399 56.6 2579 11 18
T. Bradshaw 1970 22 PIT QB 13 8 3-5-0 83 218 38.1 1410 6 24
1971 23 PIT QB 14 13 5-8-0 203 373 54.4 2259 13 22
D. Brees 2002 23 SDG QB 16 16 8-8-0 320 526 60.8 3284 17 16
2003 24 SDG QB 11 11 2-9-0 205 356 57.6 2108 11 15
S. Young 1985 24 TAM QB 5 5 1-4-0 72 138 52.2 935 3 8
1986 25 TAM QB 14 14 2-12-0 195 363 53.7 2282 8 13
W. Moon 1984 28 HOU QB 16 16 3-13-0 259 450 57.6 3338 12 14
1985 29 HOU QB 14 14 4-10-0 200 377 53.1 2709 15 19
J. Elway 1983 23 DEN QB 11 10 4-6-0 123 259 47.5 1663 7 14
1984 24 DEN QB 15 14 12-2-0 214 380 56.3 2598 18 15
I am assuming your point here is (as you didnt mention one) that these QB's stunk in their first 2 years and then became great and that you are implying TE could do the same...
This argument is old and tired for one and completely biased. For every one of the HOF caliber players you list here, I can list 100 Akili Smiths, Ryan Leafs, Andre Wares, Todd Marinovichs, Heath Shulers, Cade McNowns, etc, etc, etc...that stunk or struggled early in their career and NEVER got better.
So these comparisons are such lousy points and only paint a tiny piece of a picture. By this Logic we should keep JP Losman as he has the best season betwen him and TE under his belt and has NEVER had 2 FULL years to start full time, let alone play consistently in the same system, so he still could turn out to be the next Steve Young by this logic.
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Ithink almost everyone who responded to this post does not understand what I am saying. Let me try to clarify- I'm not saying the Bills should trade Peters this offseason, even though he will undoubtedly hold out again and the team will suffer for it. I'm not saying it would be ideal for the Bills to trade Peters at all. All I'm saying is the Bills FO has shown in the past that they are willing to let great players walk rather than pay them what they demand in free agency and if that is the case, if the options are let Peters go for nothing or trade him and get a couple of day one draft picks for him, the choice is clear. Does anyone disagree with that?
I know we would all like to keep our great players but the fact is Mr. Wilson is a cheapskate who won't pay for real talent and I could see him letting Peters walk instead of paying top dollar to keep him. (even though he will overpay mediocre players like Schobel and Kelsay). That is all I'm trying to say.
There is a very distinct difference in retaining players and grossly over paying players to stay. We let players like Clements (thank god) walk in FA because he wanted an ABSURD amount of money and was not WORTH what he wanted. Look at the SF defense...are they really much better off after giving him what was the biggest contract in history for a defensive player?
That doesnt make us cheap, that makes us smart.
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Ask yourself why other teams have had good luck hiring coordinators around the league. Miami, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Atlanta, etc. To me, the damning evidence of the lack of luck we've had hiring these new coaches is solely on our incompetent front office.
First off, take Pitt off your list. Tomlin keeps making coaching blunders (even cost them a win and almost another one against Dallas by repeating the mistake until Romo bailed him out). He wins because of talent on that team...that team is essentially the same team that won the Super Bowl just 3 years ago.
For every succesful coordinator hire there are many more flounders. Mularkey and Williams were going to be hired by someone those years we hired them as they were both hot coordinators. So who ever hired them was going to have a big miss at the HC position. The problem is, most people remember the successes but forget about the tons of misses.
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I want them to reflect the personality of their head coach. That will show that they respect the HC and want to follow his lead. I don't see how this could go wrong.
What we need is some swagger. I dont want to see us too reliant on any one thing. We need to be a threat in the passing game, not just a ram it down your throat running team IMHO. Sure, I want to be able to run it down the throats of teams, but we have to a QB we can lean on when the running game isnt there.
We just need some toughness and swagger to our team. Teams need to know they better bring their A game when they face the Bills...
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Not really. From what you've posted here, rather than saying that the idea will never work because of blah blah blah, you've gone and turned into something completely different.
Hey, if you think the idea is ridiculous (and I know it is a stretch), you could have said why. From your responses, it is not clear that you even understand the idea.
oh geezus...fine you want a real answer, here it is...
FANS DO NOT KNOW FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They think they do because they get to make their decisions after the fact and they play fantasy football so they think they are geniuses...truth is, most the crap they whine about are things they supported at the time they happen. They flip flop more than a presidential candidate, and thats just the blunt truth.
I remember being on here and most were pumped up when we hired Mularkey for instance, or when we drafted Mike Williams...(I dont need 10 posters saying "not me" as I know not 100% or people support every decision...quite frankly, some people are just liars too, but the overall consensus was in support of these moves). Then when they dont work our fans rip these moves apart and are critical as if they would have known better, even people who originally supported the move...come on, not realistic. If all the fans on these team boards were such football genuises they wouldnt be on these boards, they would be working in a front office some where.
So putting control in the fans hands would be the dumbest mistake ever made...just the truth. Throw in the fact that its hard enough to get 2 people to agree on something, but now you have hundreds or even thousands trying to agree on a coach...then add how completely far fetched and unrealistic this idea is to actually happen, and you sir earned the emoticon I gave...
Another example...all these fans on here whining that Ralph is cheap and doesnt pay players because thats the envogue thing to say. Truth is, anyone who has any real football sense and truly follows this team will clearly see Ralph has been spending his money, and big bucks I might add, on players to bring in and to retain players. But as a fan, they dont look at it from a football stance, they look at it as "I am butt hurt we are not in the playoffs so I am going to spout off anything just to rant".
1. Our Oline was horrendous, he paid top dollar to bring in Dockery (who was a big signing) and Walker. Our O Line now is light years from where it was.
2. He payed up and kept Evans with a hugh contract.
3. He retained Schobel, Kelsay and Denney for big contracts
4. Traded for Stroud (who doesnt have a small contract)
5. Traded up in to first round (three times) to get players we wanted knowing it would cost us more money...
6. Brought key players like Mitchell
7. And so on and so on...
Fans spout off at the mouth based on emotion, they make decisions based on emotion....you cant do that when you are making decisions for a team. And all that is fine, thats what fans do, but it has no place in any place of power.
BOTTOM LINE: YOU CAN NOT LET THE INMATES RUN THE ASYLUM!
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Want to show me you are serious Ralph?
Julius Peppers or Albert Haynesworth
Its not that simple...they have to choose us over the other teams also opening up the checkbook for them...
Peppers is almost a certain lock to resign in Carolina, and Haynesworth likely resigns in Tenn or goes to a more another team offering as much money as we would that is more attractive...
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The problem there is who would be the starting QB- Eli or Peyton. That wouldn't work
lol...I said P. Manning then said Ny Giants O Line, not the offense, just the line...they can keep Eli
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I'm not sure what your comment means.
Why dont we just trade for P. Manning, L. Fitzgerald, A. Boldin, R. Moss, J. Peppers, Haynesworth, C. Bailey, the NY Giants O Line, T. Polamalu, and Ray Lewis...
This has about as much realistic value as your post...hence the
Clear enough?
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We should try to do something that will go down in history. It will show how much Bills fans want a winning team and want the team to stay in Buffalo.
We start a web presence and pool of the PR resources we can through fans from the fan base. We get as many fans as possible to show support at the web site so we can see what kind of numbers (in terms of fans willing to contribute) we are dealing with to see if we could realistically raise the necessary funds. We set the site up as a pledge based system.
We have a poll set up for a larger handful of available coaches and perform voting to narrow it down to only a few coaches and then more down to two coaches.
We would need to have someone that somehow has access to talk to the agents of the coaches so that we know the availability of the candidates and price points. Of course, with this much publicity we can have an effect on the price point.
Let's say we come up with a contract that stipulates a one year contract with incentives and such. This way, we only pay for one year and if it is a success, One Bills Drive picks up the tab from there.
In other words, let's go over the front office's head. Let's show them that we don't want to have one pulled over on us by their marketing tactics. We will not only show them that we are loyal and savvy fan base, but also that the fans and the team are interconnected.
We go over the administrations head and hire the coach ourselves. Even if we do not make it that far, it will certainly drum up a ton of publicity and perhaps influence keeping the Bills in place and perhaps even influence FO changes.
Thoughts?
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You are right; the Bills have spent a considerable amount of money on free agents and locking up some players on the roster to long term deals. Whether or not those investments prove to be wise or foolish is a subject of debate. Mr. Wilson is spending money on players.
But where he falls short is in spending for FO and Coaching. If the Bills truly do not have the talent then it’s the fault of those whose job it is to go out and identify and acquire those players. And the coaches whose job it is to take whatever talent a player has and work with them to help it reach its potential.
But for arguments sake was it really Ralph who hired Dick Juron? Didn't he come with glowing recommendations from the then pseudo GM Marv Levy, after he went through the interview process of prospective coaches three years ago? So shouldn't we blame Marv for recommending Juron rather than blame Wilson for hiring him? So perhaps Wilson's fault is not his own judgment of coaches but rather his judgment in assessing the recommendations of his advisors?
That said I still think the blame ultimately falls at the owners feet...
Nice post...I totally agree. It frustrates me when Ralph gets accused of not spending money, because he clearly is. The lacking area right now is our FO. Part of that has to do with the sour taste in his mouth left by you know who.
It also frustrates me on Ralph catching flack on the coaches. Mularkey and Williams were hot items when they were hired, and most the posters saying Ralph is cheap based on him hiring inexperiecned coaches (which is why they were cheap) are also yelling for him to hire other UNPROVEN corrdinators to replace DJ, which coincidentally would be cheaper than say a Billick or Cowher.
The most frustrating argument is when he gets flack for being cheap because he hired DJ...he DID NOT hire DJ, MARV LEVY chose DJ and Ralph trusted his GM to do what he was hired to do...find talent and coaches. So, you can fault him for not having a stong enough front office, and its true. But be fair on where blame is assigned...
1. He spends money, so people need to get over the "he is cheap stuff"
2. Blame Marv for DJ, not Wilson
3. Dont accuse him of being cheap on his coaches because he went out and got a young up and coming coach then scream for him to make the same MISTAKE again this year. He brought in Williams because he was supposed to be tough and could help shore up a defense which was the weakest part of the team. Then he brought in Mularkey who was supposed to also be tough and able to spark our offense with creativity (which was the weakest part of our team then). At the times of their hires, they looked like promising choices. They didnt work out, it happens, doesnt mean he is cheap.
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Huh. Every year Ralph opens up his checkbook for FAs this board applauds signing. By extension, are you saying SDS should go out and get some talented TSW posters to replace the ones we've got now?
Exactly
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Ralph thinks we don't have enough talent on the field to win games. He needs to look in the mirror. RALPH is the one that lacks talent at his job. It starts at the top. He is in control of every major move of this organization. If he doesn't think we have enough talent on the field, then he needs to go out and buy the big name players every time free agency comes around. The truth is, he's not going to do that. He'll just keep firing coaches and laying blame at the players feet. For once, I'd like to hear him come out and say he's responsible for this mess we have had since the late 90's.
These posts always humor me...he DID spend money. He spent top dollar on Dockery and Walker when we needed help on our Oline. He spent money on Schobel, Kelsay, Denney (not saying wise money, but he SPENT money none the less), went out and got Stroud who doesn't have a small contract, signed Mitchell, Re-Signed Evans to a huge contract, etc, etc.
You can argue some of those were not wise moves (kelsay and Denney) but he is SPENDING more money the last few years than he is given credit for. And for the most part, most of those moves were good moves that improved our team.
Before the O-line additions, we had one of the worst O Lines in football. Before Stroud, we had one of the worst D Lines in football. The point is, the guy wants to win and is mad we are not winning. He is spending money and not just holding onto it.
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4th round pick? That's nuts. At least a first day draft pick for him (probably 2nd rounder). I think a lot of people expect a lot more production out of him since he signed a 7 year, $50.5 million dollar contract extension. For that kind of money, people expect results.
I didnt say I said 4th round pick, I said I have seen posters in various threads saying trade him for a 3rd or 4th round pick...
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I think you have a solid argument based on the numbers. But, it is important to note that just bc Schobel had 9 more tackles, does not mean those tackles were meaningful. Tackles are always a dubious statistic too and never tell the full story. I think you are right in saying that Schobel is a better player than most of us give him credit for. However, I think you are wrong in thinking that Schobel extensively disrupts an opposing offense's gameplan. He is a finesse DE, end of story. He is good in his own right, but he doesn't make anyone around him a better player. He is not a physical specimen that can completely run over the OT he faces. He is an above average defensive end on a below average defense. He is a hard worker and never gives up. I give him all the credit in the world for those things. But he is not the defensive presence on the field that the Bills desperately need. I'm not saying we should get rid of him at all, I am just saying we need more at DE.
If you feel confident with a Schobel/Kelsay/Denney rotation you are one of the few. If you do not feel confident about that rotation, it either says really bad things about Kelsay and Denney, or it says Schobel's play does not impress you as much as his statistics do.
I agree with you, and yes tackles are not telling the whole story either. My only point is that the guy is pretty good football player. I never said great, but he is pretty darn good.
I am in NO WAY confident with a Schobel/kelsay/denney rotation and think we need another DE on the other end. I said cut denney and make kelsay the back up and bring in through FA or a draft another DE.
I was only illustrating how this guy gets so much flack yet is a really good all around player who makes our D noticeably better when he is on the field. He would benefit greatly from another threat (which we definitely need) on the other end. But even without that threat he has still managed to be one of the statistically better DE in the NFL over his career, but for some reason it seems like the fans want to dump on him and run him out of town. Some even saying to trade him for a lousy 4th round pick...
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Schobel had 1 sack in 5 games (even with Stroud). So, at that rate, he would of had 3 sacks to finish the year. Yes, Schobel has been good at forced fumbles & good against the run, but most of the time he barely gets a whiff of the QB.
Peppers had 3 sacks in the first 5 games this year and 11 tackles...
Schobel 1 sack and 19 tackles...so yeah, he had 2 less sacks, but made 9 more plays elsewhere...not a terrible trade off.
He still DEMANDS the attention of opposing teams and that showed as he made STROUD better when he was on the field.
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And in case it is still not clear...I am NOT saying Schobel is better than Peppers, I am saying even the great Peppers had a WAY WORSE year than Schobel and that just PROVES the point that sacks DONT tell the whole story, because IF the did you would have to say Schobel is better, which I am NOT.
Point is, Schobel is a pretty good DE, like it or not, and there isnt a single team in the NFL that he wouldnt be a starter on. He may not be Elite, but he is pretty good.
He is considered a better DE in the run game than most, including Peppers.
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So by your logic you are concluding that Schobel is as good if not better than Peppers. Correct?
NO, I wrote SACKS DONT TELL THE WHOLE STORY and talent DOES matter around a player. You think its a coincidence that Schobels worst year statistically is also the same year we had our worst D unit in decades on the field? And yet, he still tripled Peppers sack production who DIDNT lose a ton of players to injury.
Everyone wants to rip Schobel over sacks, but he is one of the better run stopping DE's in the league, still had 6.5 sacks last year which is solid considering all the injuries, was 2nd in the league in forced fumbles and was all around effective.
And to FURTHER illustrate this is look at our D this year with him on the field and off the field...we were a much better team with him on it. And someone pointed out the AZ game...that had NOTHING to do with schobel. Warner would do a quick 3 step drop (the fabled Peppers couldnt reach Warner in that game) and immediately shoot the ball out to a WR crossing over the middle wide open because our D Backs were told to play 10 yards off the most dangerous WR corp in the NFL. That was defensive coaching that lost us that game, not Schobels inadequacies...
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That might be so regarding his respect around the league. And I agree stats don't tell the full story. My point is solely this. In my opinion, he is a great Defensive End that gets dragged down by the poor talent of his teammates and thus the extra attention he gets makes him less effective. WHAT I WANT, is an EVEN BETTER Defensive End, that is good enough to make everyone around him better because of how effective he can be, even when he is given the extra attention.
I don't buy this, "well everyone else is around him sucks so his talent is negated", great players always beat out the extra attention they get. This is especially true of players on the Defensive Line.
I will say, to the credit of Schobel, the play of the Bills went down drastically without him in the game.
Julius Peppers 2007 stat line
14 games, 2.5 SACKS
We all have an off year, and Schobels off year had TRIPLE the sack output of Peppers and Schobel had LESS talent on the D...heck, peppers had Kris Jenkins last year...What did Schobel have? We also a band aid D with all the injuries and he STILL tripled Peppers output.
Sacks dont tell the whole story about a player...
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Osrry but the bills ranked 27 with 22 sacks and 26th with only 9 interceptions. NO pressure to the qbs leading to Ints Maybe incomplete passes but you would have to go throgh each individual game to see if the Dl was the cause of that. Sorry to bust up your theory
You are talking about team stats which dont reflect on him as an individual...Our starting safety was our 5th string WR for crying out loud. We had very little talent on our D due to injuries last year, so that is not a fair assesment. He still had SIX forced fumbles (#2 in the league) and 96 tackles for a DE...
Lets play a game of who am I:
14 games played, 2.5 sacks, 38 tackles....
Give up? Julius Peppers last year...Schobel tripled his out put last year, but you wanna throw big money at him? You think Peppers didnt still scare D Coordinators last year?
Peppers only had more than 60 tackles in a season once (64 in 2004) and Schobel had 96 last year as a DE...
So say what you want about his only 6.5 sacks...but he still had a pretty good season overall and it was one of his worst statistically in terms of sacks.
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I agree, I feel Schobel would be a great complimentary DE like Hansen & Paup were to Bruce.
FYI too...Schobel had 6 Forced Fumbles and 96 tackles to go with his 6.5 sacks last year to show his overll effectiveness...make no mistake, we are a better team with him on the field and the other teams have to account for him. If we had another guy equal to him or better on the other side we would have a pretty dominant D Line...
We Bills fans should pay for and hire
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I played LB in the Pac 10.