John Cocktosten
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Posts posted by John Cocktosten
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Oh.
So Nix has definitively failed?
Last I checked he was still the decision maker on the team and judgement of his tenure is far from complete.
This again harkens back to your lack of fairness and balance.
Who hired Marrone?
And I've been here a lot longer than iommi and I can speak to your tendencies.
See, even I can teach you something.
Yes, Nix has failed and if he'd been with another organization that cares about winning he'd be gone. Actually, he would've never been hired in the first place. We can go point by point about why Nix has been horrible but I'll wrap it all up and save time by saying look at the record. Remember the baby?
I really don't see how that's not fair. My tendencies are fair, they just don't fall in line with the "Fan at all costs" mentality.
The Marrone pick was a great hire to me.
What your criticism of EJ hasn't shown is how the other 2013 QB classmates did. There's a reason why there was only one QB drafted in first round, and there are many questions about all of them. Nothing that's come out since the draft is conclusive that EJ was not the best QB prospect in this draft. So if your beef is that Bills took him too high at #16, that's what you should be arguing. But there are certainly enough hints from league personnel that there's no way that EJ would have lasted to the #41 pick.
Isn't that implied?
I didn't like any of the Qbs but you had to grab one. But going after him at #16 is just the Bills going all last 14 years on everybody. I say time has already told us a lot about EJ. Most say time will tell.
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Honesty is not saying that a guy plays poorly against the best defenses he faces when it's completely untrue.
Just like RG3 got Baylor to the BCS Championship game, right?
You make some truly dizzying points.
"best defenses" he played was Florida. Florida had more defensive players drafted in the first 3 rounds than the "great defenses" of Va Tech and Maryland. Are you kidding me right now? ACC's best defenses are average at best. Look at the OOC results.
RG3 put up 5 TDs against every team he played regardless of comp. Here's the link, go for it.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/239/year/2011/baylor-bears
What RG3 didn't play with was a defense full of NFL players. Just facts that I'm throwing out there. It makes the game a bit tougher when your defense routinely is giving up 40-50 points like Baylor s did . No?
Thanks.
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It's always nice when someone is proven wrong and they resort to insults...it shows that the quality of their argument is poor.
Virginia Tech's record last year is altogether immaterial to the discussion. Your claim was that EJ cannot perform against the best defenses he faces...Virginia Tech was the best D he faced in 2012, and he played very well, so, in short, you are wrong. Stats or no stats, your argument is incorrect. Don't get mad, get informed.
EJ played against the teams on his schedule. So far, the only response you had (aside from one of the cheesiest name-callings I've ever encountered) was to denigrate Notre Dame's defense and tell me that EJ didn't play well against Oklahoma in 2011 (which, if you actually read my post, you'd know I already mentioned...great detective work). And your argument about Notre Dame isn't even a salient point, considering that they were 8-4 before facing FSU in the Champs Sports Bowl, including going 1-1 against the only ranked teams they faced (the one win being a 31-13 blowout of Michigan State; the 1 loss coming to #6 Stanford and Andrew Luck). They also scored wins that season over a Pitt team that beat the only ranked team they faced (South Florida) and a much tougher than advertised Wake Forest squad (that both defeated FSU and played #9 Clemson to a 3-point loss).
The point is, you can chastise the stats all you want, but they tell the story you don't want to hear: EJ played well against the best defenses he faced far more often than he didn't. Those of us that have watched him play knew this without looking at the numbers; although it is quite convenient that they back up the point quite nicely.
Where are the insults and cheesey name calling? A little sensitive?
If you watched CFB, which it's pretty clear that you just read box scores, you'd know that Va Tech got slammed by the good offensive teams last year. It's easy to shutout Austin Peay or Bowling Green. But let's look drill down a bit. Clemson, Miami, UNC and Pitt rolled up at least 30. Why am I even defending this. Va Tech had their worst team in 15 years. This is a fact. That defense was terrible. They gave up 41 to DUKE for god sakes!
How is pointing out that ND '11 team was completely different than this years team (albeit very overrated) denigrating? You are just a touch too sensitive.
And pointing out wins over Wake Freeking Forest, Pitt and South Florida? Wow.....Just stop already. Btw, What happened to Maryland's steel curtain?
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Brady and Manning?
Certainly not in college which is what we're evaluating right now.
How clutch was Manning in college?
As usual JC, I find your comments to be backed by knowledge but not fair and balanced.
You act like a developing young player is never going to evolve beyond what you've already seen of him.
That's a total myth about Manning in college. He lost 3 games in the SEC his last 3 years at UT. They were all against one team. The late 90's UF teams were some of the best in the last 30 years of CFB. I'll take a 21-3 record against the SEC any day of the week. I believe he threw for close to 100 tds as well. If that's not clutch, what is?
He's essentailly a 4 year starter. How much developing is their left. I think it's a case of what you see is what you get with EJ because he's shown very little growth IMO. If he had a "great" progression, FSU would've been playing in the BCS championship game.
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Cool, like you said you are entitled your opinions. I personally think a sweeping statement about a player's ability prior to entering rookie minicamp is a bit hasty. I think this is a case of revisionist history. In the coming years you can come back and tell everyone on the board how right you were if EJ bombs. I don't think your argument about the level of competition holds any water. I can simply refute that by comparing the college numbers of Joe Flacco or Colin Kaepernick who arguably played against weaker competition, and your argument about the level of defenses has already been refuted.
Well it's definitely not a case of revisionist history because I'm saying before hand. You have 113 posts so you probably haven't been here for too long. Go ahead and read through history, I' don't say I told ya so and never have.....well maybe with Nix (but come on, are people that blind?!?) I was on the board the day Marrone got hired saying that I loved the hire and was getting slammed for it so is that good enough or do I have to drink the entire cup of Kool Aid? Don't get honesty mixed up with negativity or else you'll wind up like on of them.
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It's not the opinion, it's the tone of certainty. You pick out a few games, each involving dozens of players and coaches, specific conditions, specific systems, etc. and then offer your prediction of the future of a still-developing young player as a fact. Not saying your opinion is not educated. And of course, you might be right. But lots of people with very educated opinions get their player prognostications wrong all the time, either because they didn't account for all the different variables at work (nor could they have), or because players change over time.
This is a forum for discussing opinions, but when people present opinions as stone-cold facts, and do it over and over and over again, well, they provoke an understandable reaction.
I'd say the same thing to anyone who says repeatedly that EJ will definitely be an all-pro.
I posted that vid link, because I was really interested in hearing different takes on EJ's play during that game beyond the obvious stats and end-result. As for me, I have no idea what he will turn into. I'm optimistic, but wouldn't bet a penny on my opinion either way.
Fair but what am I supposed to base my opinions on? Defenses like WF, Maryland and USF? Or his tougher games like OU and UF? That's how CFB goes, you might play 3-4 good teams per year and the rest are against very average comp.
To me, great QBs will their team to wins. I've watched football for a long time and we've all seen guys like Brady and Manning do this even when the rest of the team doesn't have it. Not sure how they do it but it's an intangible that very few QBs have. That's why I loved R WIlson. The effect he had on Wisky in '11 should have won him the Heisman. He transformed that team. I've never seen that out of EJ.
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Nothing like a poster that doesn't know what they're talking about.
EJ can't play a top defense, huh? How convenient, since the best Ds they faced all year in 2012 were:
- Virginia Tech (18th in FBS); EJ was 25-42 for 326 with 3 TDs and 1 INT in a 28-22 win
- Maryland (21st in FBS); EJ was 74% passing with 2 TDs in a 41-14 rout
Or maybe you were referring to 2011...when the best Ds EJ faced were the following:
- Oklahoma (39th in FBS); here's one where he struggled, going only 13 of 19 with 2 INTs in a tough loss
- Miami (22nd in FBS); 17-23 (74%) with 1 TD in a 4-point win
- Virginia (34th in FBS); 18-31 with 1 TD in a 1-point loss
- Florida (25th in FBS); this was a lousy game by both teams...EJ was only 6 of 13 for 65 yds 0 TD/0 Ints, but FSU did win the game 21-7
- Notre Dame (28th in FBS); 20-31 for 249 with 2 TDs in an 18-14 bowl game victory
So, yeah, you're wrong.
In light of the evidence that proves you completely wrong, you may want to retract this statement.
Of course you can not like the pick, just don't lie and we won't have an issue.
The fact that you brought up Maryland and Va Tech says all you know about CFB. Last Year was Va Tech's worst season in 15 years. They had to win their last game of the year to be bowl eligible. Maryland literally lost every QB on the roster and had a starting LB playing QB at the year's end. You can't be serious.
Do you remember the OU game in '11? EJ was playing horribly and got hurt. The backup Clint Trickett came in and outplayed EJ tying the game in the 4th.
The rest of your "stats' are laughably funny. Look at what those defenses do outside of the ACC. That ND team was a 5 loss team that they beat and started 3 freshman (Floyd, Tuitt, Nix) on the DL. That being said, that was EJ's best game that year so I'll give you one.
Please stat boy, I could make a case that Fitz was accurate in '11 by his comp%. But I chose to watch the games and realized that it was a total fluke.
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That "absurdly loaded" defense sure shat themselves against Florida, didn't they? They also blew a 16-0 hafltime lead against NC State. I guess none of the FSU guys on defense will be good pros?
Yeah it was absurdly loaded and FSU would've lost to Va Tech and Ga Tech if it wasn't for the D. Did you see how many players were taken? If B Jenkins and Carridine don't get hurt, they might have had 3 DE's go in the first round with three 5 Star backups. Christain Jones and Joyner were second round locks who stayed in college as well. Not to mention T Jurnigan who will be a first rounder but is a true soph. Oh and Rhoades....so I guess they were loaded.
The defense didn't blow that game if you actually watched. An offense should be able to score more than 16 on a terrible defense. At least NC St had a decent QB. Teams like Miami, UNC and Tenn put up at least 35 on NCst. Hell Clemson almost scored 70 I think. So yeah, the defense did enough. the EJ led offense let them down that game.
You don't have to like the pick, but your essentially trolling. The guy has yet to set foot into rookie minicamp, give the guy the chance to get acclimated to a new system and pro style weapons and play an NFL game prior to calling his demise.
*you're.....This is trolling.
I'm expressing my opinion. I didn't like Tebow, Sanchez or Leinart either. Was that trolling?
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Carry this label with you for the next three years....maybe it will be a good look? Maybe you'll look like a shmo for your thorough EJ trashing through several threads.....John "EJ's a bust, I called it"Cocktosen.
I'm all for some thorough hating but I see zero reasons for EJ to recieve any scorn....he hasn't won/lost a game for us yet.....
IMO fsu play calling wasn't necessarily the air raid type offense.....let's give it 5 or so games to write EJ's first chapter.
Can I ask you a question- can I not like the pick? Can I have an educated point of view just because you don't agree with it? I'm not concerned about being right, I'm concerned that the Bills made the wrong choice again. I won't be rooting against him but my expectations of him are far from the anointed savior that so many, who haven't seen him in a game outside of youtube, think he is.
I agree with you about the play calling. Jimbo is a known control freak with his players and coaches (mass exodus). That being said, Jimbo didn't turn the ball over 4 times in the biggest game of the season at home. Jimbo didn't fail to log a single point against NCst in the second half. EJ has never been able to do it by himself. Just facts.
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You would do well to do some research on EJ's supporting offensive cast at FSU compared to that of Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Barkley, Bray, Smith, among others. Considering where the rest of the offensive players (especially skill positions) are being selected by the NFL at the other schools compared to FSU, it becomes pretty apparent that EJ got the most out of what he had to work with regardless of the caliber of defenses he was supposedly playing against. How many elite QBs have come out of the SEC lately playing against those tremendous defenses? Not many. That point is baseless.
I really don't have to do research because I know CFB inside and out. I know that FSU recruits as well as any other team and hasn't had a class outside of the top 10 in 5-6 years. They have a ridiculous group of of 5* running back, Wr's and a top TE. His first team Oline wasn't bad either although they do lack depth. Their defense is absurdly loaded with 5* depth at every position which gives the offense an advantage in every single game. They have the best recruiting base in the country and that's not even arguable. SO you should do some research.
Not sure why you are bringing up the SEC. The ACC has been particularly terrible the last few years and that's where EJ has looked his best. When he has to play against teams OOC like Florida or Oklahoma, he doesn't look quite as good. Go back and run the numbers. I don't have to because I actually watched the games.
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EJ made a living off of terrible ACC defenses. He hit a brick wall when he had to play a top defense. That game was huge for FSU and he failed despite playing at home and having a ton of offensive talent. That's EJ though, he's good enough to fit in but he will never win a game by himself.
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To be fair, he's been busy scouting QB's.
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Like many others, the Bills did not do what he thinks they should have (pick Geno Smith at 8 in this case) so he is having a hissy fit. Typical. Given all the debate and disagreement by fans on TSW leading up to the draft on pick a QB or not, which one to pick, etc, this is not surprising. Personally, I am much more comfortable leaving that decision to the people who get paid for it. They needed a QB, they extensively evaluated the options, and made the choice. It will be an interesting year at the very least, but I feel very good about the draft so far, especially Manuel.
16-32 baby!I like it. I'll be the drummer.
You're definitely the band manager.
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#Bills Russ Brandon "Buddy Nix is our GM and will be for a long time. Doug (Whaley) is vital to the process."
I'll translate: "The Bills are going to be bad for a long time."
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Dude, the fact you specifically set up your signature to make fun of optimistic fans is a dead giveaway. You're miserable. I will NEVER apologize for being optimistic and looking for the bright side of things with respect to the teams I root for. And that's all I have to say about that.
It's like a playoff beard. Until the trend is stopped by the Bills actually doing something on the field it stays. And let me clarify, I'm a miserable Bills fan. How can't you be when we reach yet again?
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Kiko is a very good football player. Actually Brown and him are very similar but Brown played WSLB in a 4-3. Kiko played in a super aggressive 34 scheme and is always around the ball. If he keeps his house in order, you'll love the pick.
Looks like the Ravens grabbed Brown! That's a pretty good endorsement I guess.
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Kiko is rock solid. He played in a super aggressive scheme at Oregon which should translate well here. He stood out during the Rose Bowl game vs Wisky as one of the best players on the field which was loaded with talent (Just don't watch his interview after). He's always around the ball. Very good pick.
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Check out the ND bowl game from 2011 and the Clemson game from 2012 and tell me EJ can't take over a game. There was also the game winning drives against VT this year, i could go on and on.
There's no guarantee that he'll develop into a superstar, but he's shown serious flashes of brilliance. Most of what you've said is patently false.
The same Clemson team that gave up 70 to Gino and WVU? Clemson is perennially the worst defense in the ACC.
He did play well in the ND bowl game but that ND team wasn't the team we saw last year. They were a mediocre 4 loss team who had 4 freshman starting on the d line and Touchdown Tommy at QB. He played well though but not great.
It sounds like you're a FSU fan. Tell me how he played against UF in the biggest game of his career? Tell me why he couldn't put his team on his back for one drive vs NCst and win that game. Every FSU fan that I know has pride that he was picked that high but think it's laughable. He was the sole reason why you weren't playing for a championship this year and any real fan knows that.
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Arthur Brown would be awesome here.
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Would be a great pickup and he's a great kid.
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Hey, man, have a blast sitting back and waiting to tell everyone how right you were, wallowing in your misery.
Fun times!!!
Typical response from an all time Polly. Can I not give my point of view in response to the EJ jerkfest? I was doing a lot of defending the day Marrone was announced as head coach so does that cancel out my opinion on EJ? Or do I still lose my fan card?
I'm not happy when I'm right regarding the Bills. It's really not that hard when it comes to the Bills. It's like betting against the table in craps,it usually wins but you're never popular with the the losers.
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And if the Senior Bowl was a cakewalk, then every QB prospect would have shined in that game. Yet the other touted prospects laid a turd.
The guy definitely has negatives, but I can't see how you're ranking on him when he was 4-0 in bowl games. And if you apply your example to the other top QB prospects this year, how did they do? If you just go by performance against a big rival then McCarron should have been the top pick by a landslide. Your criticism of EJ does not include any justification why he doesn't have a higher upside than the rest of the field, and as I said before, the rest of the field doesn't look much better than Kolb or Tarvaris. So, if the team had EJ as their top QB, chances are other teams had him as a top QB and Bills were not going to get him in the 2nd round.
Go back a few months through all the discussions about why Nix tenure is a failure. He never gambled on a QB prospect. He picked a bad year to finally address the position. But he can't be blamed for swinging for the guy with the highest upside. Funny part is that the so-called experts were surely convinced that Kaepernick would last to Rounds 3 or 4, because he was a long term project with a high upside. He got picked within 25 slots after Manuel's slot. How does that pick look now?
I'm not busting on him for his record in bowl games. I'm saying that bowl games don't matter unless it's the big ones. Kids are suspended, academically ineligible, checked out and playing not to get hurt. Hard to judge a completely meaningless game between two 5 loss teams after a 40 day layoff and vacation in between. 4-0 is good but when you drill down it's nothing to get excited about.
You're right about NIx picking a QB. If we get EJ in the second it doesn't feel as bad. But to take him ahead of 4-5 players who are simply better than EJ because our GM fell asleep for 3 years on draft day doesn't justify the pick. Especially if you've actually followed EJ's career. Die hard Nole fans will tell you that EJ has everything except the ability to put a team on his back and win a big game. He's never done it and if you're picking at 16, that's who I want. Not a project.
So, just exactly how much did you lose on that game John?
I would never put a dime on EJ in a big game. He didn;t stand a chance against a non ACC defense. I was right.
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Well I guess that makes it official guys, the Orange Bowl now means nothing.
We get it, you don't like E.J. Manuel. But you're just making a complete fool of yourself now.
Orange Bowl against MAC champion Northern Illinois. How did they do against a BCS team from the SEC a game earlier? They got crushed at home by their biggest rival,
I've been on this board now for a long time and you can go back and check my history. You'd be hard pressed to find me being anything but truthful....and right.
Read my quote in my sig, it says it all.
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Well let's hope you are as right on this as you were about Jimmy Clausen haha.
Who did go 4-0 in bowl games.
Bowl games that meant nothing. Not sure if you know this but the big games in CFB are played during the season if it's they're not the BCSCG. Like the OU game in '11 or the UF game this year. His best game was against a very good Clemson team who gave up 70 to WVU.
You'll be happy with this pick CB97! EJ is a lot like your boy LeFevour!
I'll give it to you though CB. You're a true super fan who still defends every decision and I commend you for that. But if you look at the track records on this board for the last 5-6 years, you've been wrong about....95% of the time. Thank God there are enough Pollys around here to make you feel better!
PM me with your address. I might as well send you the beer.
Exactly, as absurd as yours.
Good one.
EJ's Florida Game Lucky for Bills?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I don't want to digress but he's been picking in the single digits in the first round. Kind of different when you're picking form the back or middle of the first. And even though I like Dareus, he's been a massive underachiever. Outside of the QBs taken in '11, who were EJ-esque head scratchers, Dareus is the biggest disappointment by far out of the top 10 and it's not even close. How bout taking a look at the rest of his drafts. The '11 is crashing and burning as we speak. It's a complete train wreck.