Coach55

Interesting Rob Johnson tidbit. Further my previous post about his demise was how often he was sacked. Think about this - Jim Kelly had a 60.1% comp percentage, 1.35:1 TD/Int Ratio and averaged 7.4 yds per attempt Johnson had a 60.5% comp percentage, 1.59:1 TD/Int Ratio and averaged 7.2 yds per attempt Scary how talented Johnson was when he made a decision. The major difference (statistically - not discussing intangibles and other stuff), Kelly was sacked once every 15.8 dropbacks vs Johnson who was sacked once every 7 dropbacks. Johnson had the talent to be the real deal, but not the head for it.

Ask and you shall receive (I only used Johnson's time in Buffalo) W-L-Comp-Att-Comp%-Yds-Yds/Att-TD-Int-Sacks Johnson 9-17-401-663-60.5%-4798-7.2-27-17-110 Edwards 14-16-506-826-61.3%-5498-6.7-24-25-58 Their stat lines are relatively similar. One glaring difference is Johnson's 110 sacks which was always his demise. If he could actually make a decision, he could have been very dangerous because he had all of the talent. Instead, he is the most sacked QB per dropback in NFL history.

Now: Jackson Evans Byrd Levitre Poz At year end: Jackson whoever wins the QB battle Troupe Byrd Levitre

The purpose of this post was to make the point that we can't see into the future. In 1986 we had a perennially challenged franchise that did nothing for 20 years. Ralph brought in a never was 60 year old coach and promoted a nobody from the scounting department to be the GM. The team had holes everywhere as they had a lot of "potential" superstars, but overall was severely lacking. People constantly bash management for not filling in the holes and bringing in a "never was" coach and a "never was" GM. There is a fine line from being a Superbowl caliber franchise and a cellar dweller. A bounce here, a first down there and a couple of wins can quickly build confidence and snowball into long-term winning franchise. Football is an attitude and all the talent in the world doesn't win football games (it does help). There is a fine line between the talent on a 4-12 team and a 12-4 team. There is plenty of talent in this franchise. I am not saying they are going 12-4, but hey, you never know.

What about our offensive line - its a disaster. We have 2 real players - Wolford (who looks like he is going to be a monster) and Ritcher. Devlin and Jones are ancient and we have an undrafted player starting at center. Kent Hull, come on. This is the most important position on the line. We need some real help here if we want to go anywhere any time soon.

But who did we have? Jim Kelly - he looked great in the USFL, but the guy can't win in the NFL. We went 4-12. The NFL game is just too fast for him. Bruce Smith - the guy came into camp last year overweight and only managed to get 6.5 sacks. He can't stop the run, plus he jumps offsides constantly in clutch situations. He is going to be a bust. Look at our receiving core - Butler is 29. Chris Burkett might develop into something. This Andre Reed looked pretty good, but he's from Kutztown state - that's not even D-I. His 53 catches last year is a one-hit wonder.

If this board were to exist in 1986, I think a post would go something like this... What is cheapskate Ralph thinking, he went out and got another bum as opposed to getting a real coach. Look at this guy's history - Lifetime 31-42 NFL head coach with a 9-7 best single season record Took a 12-7 Chicago Blitz USFL team and went 5-13 in his only USFL season Managed to win 2 CFL championships as the head coach of the Montreal Alouettes, but come on, that was the early 70's and the CFL!!! The only real college he coached at was California where his best season was 4-5-1 He coached at William and Mary and New Mexico - boy those are real powerhouses Throw in the fact he is 60 - this guy isn't a has been, he is a never was... This team is horrible. We have a rookie GM Bill Polian - figures Ralph is going to promote from within as opposed to getting someone of quality... After going 0-20 against the Dolphins in the 70's, there is no way we are going to compete with them. Marino is destined to win this division year in and year out. He's unstoppable. We are definitely going nowhere.

Looking into the overall lineup - I really only think we have 2 big holes (yes they are big holes), but overall I think we may actually have a contender QB - Edwards/Brohm - we need help here RB - Jackson - Good Flex - Spiller - Good (we think) WR - Evans - Good deep threat WR - Johnson/Hardy - big question mark WR3 - Parrish - If properly utilized could be seriously dangerous, big IF TE - Nelson - weak blocker, good receiver OT - Bell/Meredith/Wang - big hole here OG - Levitre - potential pro-bowler C - Hangartner - Serviceable - will ultimately be replaced by Wood OG - Wood - solid (If Calloway turns out to be good as touted, look for him to start and move Wood to center) OT - Green - Journeyman starter - decent runblocker, questionable pass blocker Defense DE - Stroud - decent NT - Williams/Troupe - big question mark - could be good DE - Edwards/Carrington - unknown - could be good OLB - Maybin/Coleman - big question mark - could be good/could suck ILB - Poz - solid ILB - Davis/Mitchell - okay OLB - Schobel/Batten - if Schobel sticks around could be good CB - McGee/McKelvin - look for McGee to become the nickel this year as they move to more man defense - could be good for McKelvin CB - Florence - good SS - Whitner/Scott - solid FS - Byrd/Wilson - solid If Gailey is as good as he is touted in making QB's play above average, the QB hole is diminished. LT however is a different story - I could see a Wang, Levitre, Wood, Calloway, Green line by mid-year - which may not be that bad.

You got me there. As for the missing people, I didn't have any UFA's on the list.

Thank you for shedding some light on the subject.

Yes, but the Bills still took Reich in Round 3, meaning they still wanted a QB... They could've easily taken Flutie with that pick.

Rich Gannon was pretty decent yet Kurt Warner just had some ok seasons? Warner has won the Superbowl and has been league MVP, Rich Gannon was a fringe starter.

Kevin Johnson was a good receiver for Cleveland between 99-02 he averaged 69 rec, 864 yds and 5 TDs. His career fizzled after he left Cleveland in 03. As for Tasker, he is arguably the best special teams player in the history of the game (7 pro bowls in 12 years).

If you ever watch any historic NFL films about the 1985 draft, there were always discussions of how Ralph Wilson wanted to take him 1st overall, as opposed to Bruce Smith. If this were truly the case, why on earth would Bills have not drafted him with one of the other 14 picks that they had before he was finally drafted by the Pats* at pick 285?

For those of you with pipe dreams that Levi Brown is going to come out of the woodwork and become a franchise QB, take a look at the list below. It is most of the starters since 1980 that came out in round 4 or later (I left off some lesser knowns, who started 1-2 games). Not to say that it can't be done, but most of the guys are fringe starters and journeymen backups, with the exception of a few (i.e. Brady in 2000) 1981 8 210 Wade Wilson 1985 11 285 Doug Flutie 1986 6 146 Mark Rypien 1987 4 98 Rich Gannon 1987 4 110 Steve Beuerlein 1989 6 141 Rodney Peete 1992 6 166 Jeff Blake 1993 5 118 Mark Brunell 1993 8 219 Elvis Grbac 1993 8 222 Trent Green 1994 7 197 Gus Frerotte 1995 4 99 Rob Johnson 1998 6 187 Matt Hasselbeck 1999 4 131 Aaron Brooks 2000 6 168 Marc Bulger 2000 6 199 Tom Brady 2000 7 212 Tim Rattay 2002 4 108 David Garrard 2005 4 106 Kyle Orton 2005 6 213 Derek Anderson 2005 7 230 Matt Cassel 2005 7 250 Ryan Fitzpatrick 2007 7 217 Tyler Thigpen

96 was a good year, but you could pick a lot of great WR classes, its easy to get 5-6 good receivers in a draft: 1985 - Rice (HOF), Reed (s/b HOF), Tasker (s/b HOF), Al Toon, Vance Johnson... 1987 - Cris Carter, Haywood Jeffires, Mark Ingram, Stephen Baker, Curtis Duncan, Ricky Nattiel 1988 - Tim Brown (s/b HOF), Irvin (HOF), Sterling Sharpe (would have been HOF, if not for injury), Anthony Miller, Flipper Anderson (336 yds in a game), Brett Perriman, Quinn Early, Michael Haynes 1998 - Randy Moss, Kevin Dyson, Hines Ward, Tim Dwight, Joe Jurevicius 1999 - Donald Driver, Brandon Stokley, Marty Booker, Kevin Johnson, David Boston, Torry Holt 2004 - Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans, Devery Henderson, Bernard Berrian, Jerricho Cotchery

Fair point.

Quite honestly, Flutie belongs in the Pro-Football Hall of Fame. Although the CFL is a slightly different game, it is still pro-football. And his time there speaks for itself.

You forget about Flutie's 8 seasons in the CFL during his prime years. He was 104-38 as a starter with 41,355 yards passing, 270 TD vs 155 Ints, a 61.4% completion %, 3 Grey Cup Championships along with 6 MOP awards.

Since I didn't really see Kemp, I can't go there. Ferguson, however, was a long-term QB who shouldn't have been a franchise QB. If it weren't for OJ and the Electric Co, Ferguson would have been a career loser. Oh wait - he was. He could not lead the team to victories, despite the best back and one of the best lines in football... Flutie took a team with a makeshift line and a good defense which were losers in the hands of Rob Johnson and led them to the playoffs 2 years in a row. Yes, football is a team game, but without a LEADER at QB, your team is going no where. The reason I say leader is that talent isn't everything, some of the best QB's in NFL history were great because of leadership, not ability - perfect examples - Joe Montana, Joe Namath, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw . For people who say that QB's winning record is meaningless, don't truly understand the game. Good leaders make the players around them play better. You can't create the intangibles - some guys are just winners and it affects everyone around them. Most stats are meaningless - W-L record is not.

FYI - the second set of W-L-W% for some QB's is their playoff record. This didn't print in the chart as I laid it out.

Below are the records of all of the Bills starters through the history. As Bills - only 10 QBs have 16 starts are more, of which only 3 had winning records (Kelly, Kemp and Flutie). If you take out the combined records of these 3 QBs (165-99-3-62.5%), our remaining QBs combine for a 189-295-5-39.2% record. It just shows you how important a franchise QB is. GS W L T W% W L W% Ferguson 163 77 86 47.2% 1 3 25.0% Kelly 160 101 59 63.1% 9 8 52.9% Kemp 77 43 31 3 57.8% 2 3 40.0% Bledsoe 48 23 25 47.9% Shaw 37 8 27 2 22.9% Losman 33 10 23 30.3% Flutie 30 21 9 70.0% 0 1 0.0% Edwards 30 14 16 46.7% Johnson 26 9 17 34.6% 0 1 0.0% Collins 17 7 10 41.2% Green 11 5 6 45.5% Van Pelt 11 3 8 27.3% Darragh 11 1 10 9.1% Rabb 10 6 3 1 66.7% Ferragamo 9 1 8 11.1% Fitzpatrick 8 4 4 50.0% Holcomb 8 4 4 50.0% Reich 8 4 4 50.0% 2 0 100.0% Mathison 7 1 6 14.3% Marangi 7 0 7 0.0% O'Connell 6 1 4 1 20.0% Dufek 5 1 4 20.0% Lamonica 4 4 0 100.0% Flores 4 1 2 1 37.5% Lucas 4 1 3 25.0% Dorow 4 0 4 0.0% Reynolds 3 2 1 66.7% Harris 3 0 3 0.0% Rutkowski 3 0 3 0.0% Stephenson3 0 3 0.0% McClure 1 1 0 100.0% Brodhead 1 1 0 100.0% Totten 1 0 1 0.0% Brohm 1 0 1 0.0% Manucci 1 0 1 0.0% Hart 1 0 1 0.0%

Flutie 21-10 as Bills starter. Last QB to have a winning record in a Bills uniform. I would take him over any other QB in Bills history other than Kelly.

How many more good years does he have? I know good punters have played into their 40's. Is it possible that Moorman is a Bill for another complete decade? Sorry for the dumb post, but I am bored.

Fitz - probably the current best leader, but his ability is definitely questionable, also he is clearly the most expensive Trent - probably the most accurate, but might be too scarred mentally Brohm - wildcard, hasn't panned out in the league, but if given a shot - who knows Brown - I like this kid. He has the attitude to make it. My prediction - If Edwards shows he is not completely mentally fried, he is in (not necessarily starting), if not - he is out. Fitz is two-fold - he either wins the position outright or has to see Edwards fail. I don't think they keep him as a #2 unless TE is completely mindmush. Brohm has a shot to start and will be #2 if Edwards is decent. Brown is your #3.