thewildrabbit Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Because the Bills now have TO and feel that the offensive line is so bad that they need to get rid of the ball quicker? http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/737487.html I read articles like this one and it makes me think that Schonert is already setting up the "fallguy" for the offenses lack of success against the good defensive teams. The no huddle or K-gun offense worked so well in 1990 because Jim Kelly was great at running the 2 min drill and the coaches were smart enough to pick up on this and exploit it!!! The 90's Bills had an experienced offensive line that knew how to both run and pass block extremely well. They had a really good experienced blocking tight end in Pete Metzelaars, also a speedy receiving TE in Keith Mckeller . The Bills had decent blocking fullbacks in Jamie Mueller, and Carwell Gardner. Big bruising 250lb RB back in Larry Kinebrew when they just needed a yard or two. The Bills offense could beat you by pounding the ball with Thurman Thomas running through gaping holes using that "counter Trey" offense or by Kelly slinging it to Reed, Beebe or Lofton using the K-gun offense. That 90's Bills team had a well rounded complete offense that could the run ball all day if needed, or conversely pass all day if needed. The 2009 Bills have TO. who reminds me of James Lofton, tall speedy deep threat. But what about the rest of the team? Is Trent Edwards great at running the 2 min drill? Do these Bills have a dominate tight end in receiving or blocking? Do they have a dominant Blocking fullback or 3rd down back? We do know they don't have a seasoned veteran experienced offensive line. We do know the Bills have a pass happy OC who will continue to call pass plays when a run is needed. We do know TO has a tougher time catching the ball in cold weather conditions vs warm weather. The final question is, what happens in November and December when the wind, snow and ice dictate that they must run the Ball and the OC still wants to run the no huddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Because the Bills now have TO and feel that the offensive line is so bad that they need to get rid of the ball quicker? http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/737487.html I read articles like this one and it makes me think that Schonert is already setting up the "fallguy" for the offenses lack of success against the good defensive teams. The no huddle or K-gun offense worked so well in 1990 because Jim Kelly was great at running the 2 min drill and the coaches were smart enough to pick up on this and exploit it!!! The 90's Bills had an experienced offensive line that knew how to both run and pass block extremely well. They had a really good experienced blocking tight end in Pete Metzelaars, also a speedy receiving TE in Keith Mckeller . The Bills had decent blocking fullbacks in Jamie Mueller, and Carwell Gardner. Big bruising 250lb RB back in Larry Kinebrew when they just needed a yard or two. The Bills offense could beat you by pounding the ball with Thurman Thomas running through gaping holes using that "counter Trey" offense or by Kelly slinging it to Reed, Beebe or Lofton using the K-gun offense. That 90's Bills team had a well rounded complete offense that could the run ball all day if needed, or conversely pass all day if needed. The 2009 Bills have TO. who reminds me of James Lofton, tall speedy deep threat. But what about the rest of the team? Is Trent Edwards great at running the 2 min drill? Do these Bills have a dominate tight end in receiving or blocking? Do they have a dominant Blocking fullback or 3rd down back? We do know they don't have a seasoned veteran experienced offensive line. We do know the Bills have a pass happy OC who will continue to call pass plays when a run is needed. We do know TO has a tougher time catching the ball in cold weather conditions vs warm weather. The final question is, what happens in November and December when the wind, snow and ice dictate that they must run the Ball and the OC still wants to run the no huddle? We can still run the ball effectively with the no huddle. The no huddle gives us an element of surprise and also gives the defense less time to substitute or adjust to what we are doing. Playing coaches like the belicheat monster, that's a good thing regardless of the weather conditions. ( Get the ball into your play makers hands, it doesn't have to be real complicated to work) TE can handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offde-fence Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 That did seem to be the case, when it came to running the ball last year. They didn't do it enough. Their personnel seemed a lot better suited for running than for passing, too. Granted, it was T.S.'s first year as O.C., but it looked as though he was trying to make the guys he had fit into a system he wanted, regardless of their talents. Other than Owens, it doesn't look like we're going to be better passing this year, either. Sure, we've got talent at WR, but the O-line will probably be able to handle running more than defending Trent against the likes of the Patriots, Jets, Dolphins defenses. Ideally, you'd like to be able to do what you want, when you want, but as of now, I believe we'd be better off setting up the pass with the run game. We'll just have to wait and see what approach T.S. takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Because the Bills now have TO and feel that the offensive line is so bad that they need to get rid of the ball quicker? http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/737487.html I read articles like this one and it makes me think that Schonert is already setting up the "fallguy" for the offenses lack of success against the good defensive teams. The no huddle or K-gun offense worked so well in 1990 because Jim Kelly was great at running the 2 min drill and the coaches were smart enough to pick up on this and exploit it!!! The 90's Bills had an experienced offensive line that knew how to both run and pass block extremely well. They had a really good experienced blocking tight end in Pete Metzelaars, also a speedy receiving TE in Keith Mckeller . The Bills had decent blocking fullbacks in Jamie Mueller, and Carwell Gardner. Big bruising 250lb RB back in Larry Kinebrew when they just needed a yard or two. The Bills offense could beat you by pounding the ball with Thurman Thomas running through gaping holes using that "counter Trey" offense or by Kelly slinging it to Reed, Beebe or Lofton using the K-gun offense. That 90's Bills team had a well rounded complete offense that could the run ball all day if needed, or conversely pass all day if needed. The 2009 Bills have TO. who reminds me of James Lofton, tall speedy deep threat. But what about the rest of the team? Is Trent Edwards great at running the 2 min drill? Do these Bills have a dominate tight end in receiving or blocking? Do they have a dominant Blocking fullback or 3rd down back? We do know they don't have a seasoned veteran experienced offensive line. We do know the Bills have a pass happy OC who will continue to call pass plays when a run is needed. We do know TO has a tougher time catching the ball in cold weather conditions vs warm weather. The final question is, what happens in November and December when the wind, snow and ice dictate that they must run the Ball and the OC still wants to run the no huddle? The 2 min is the most dominant part of Trents game. See '08 Jax, Oak, SD.... Per the O line: The no huddle will in theroy limit the Ds play calling/blitzes, thus making it easier to pick up the more basic rushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 The 2 min is the most dominant part of Trents game. See '08 Jax, Oak, SD....Per the O line: The no huddle will in theroy limit the Ds play calling/blitzes, thus making it easier to pick up the more basic rushes. Granted Trent has shown some comeback ability, against Denver also. But Kelly already had 3 years the the USFL and 4 years in the NFL and was a proven commodity. Not to mention, after he arrived he stated he couldn't do it alone and needed players around him to be successful, the Bills gave him the players he needed. My point was that Kelly and the 90 Bills were much more advanced as an offense before attempting to scale up the offensive tempo, plus Kelly had much more experience and help around him then Trent Edwards does. This current team with so many new comers and lacking experience at key positions suddenly wants to announce to the world that they will run the no huddle. Just seems to be hype that the OC will again be constantly calling shotgun passing plays no matter what the situation is... so when the offense fails, Trent will get the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 This current team with so many new comers and lacking experience at key positions suddenly wants to announce to the world that they will run the no huddle. Just seems to be hype that the OC will again be constantly calling shotgun passing plays no matter what the situation is... so when the offense fails, Trent will get the blame. Here is an article about teams who changed their O-line drastically the past 2 years. It's from a fantasy website, but the analysis applies to real football: http://www.ultimateffstrategy.com/Look_Bac...ne_Rankings.htm In 2007, it didn't work so well, but it did last year. And if you look at their projections for 2009, they put the Bills in the "fair" (the middle of 5) category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 The 2 min is the most dominant part of Trents game. See '08 Jax, Oak, SD.... Per the O line: The no huddle will in theroy limit the Ds play calling/blitzes, thus making it easier to pick up the more basic rushes. Referring to your comment that "the 2 min is the most dominant part of Trents game. See '08 Jax, Oak, SD...." what I see is that '08 Jax, Oak, SD were truly horrible teams. San Diego improved and got to 8 - 8 at the end of the year, but they were absolutely awful at the beginning of the year when we played them. Trent may well be ready for this, but it's really too early to say. That's what the season is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Here is an article about teams who changed their O-line drastically the past 2 years. It's from a fantasy website, but the analysis applies to real football: http://www.ultimateffstrategy.com/Look_Bac...ne_Rankings.htm In 2007, it didn't work so well, but it did last year. And if you look at their projections for 2009, they put the Bills in the "fair" (the middle of 5) category. Thanks for pointing this out, VOR, it's a good site. Interesting to see that they predict that the Eagles line will be "Better," (as opposed to Worse, Slightly Worse, Same or Slighly Better, which are the other choices) at run blocking this year. Their explanation, "Added Pro Bowler Peters, will once again be one of the best in run blocking." They don't comment specifically on pass blocking, but predict "Same." It's hard to rank o-lines on how good they are at pass blocking, because there are so many other factors that influence things. How good are the recievers? The QB? Does the QB get the ball off fast? Is the team usually behind, which allows the defense to tee off better against the pass? These are why we have had so many Peters arguments. In numbers that we can count, the Eagles allowed 23 sacks last year, 7th best in the league. The Bills in these listings are in the "Fair" category, as opposed to the Eagles, who are in the highest category, "Very Good." They predict the Bills will be "Same" in run blocking and "Better" in pass blocking. If true, that would be really excellent news. Since the major weakness of the o-line last year was the interior, and particularly the center and the LG who was decent in run blocking and terrible at pass blocking, this does seem reasonable. The Bills are also listed as "Very good" in durability and "Fair" in depth. The commentary, "Brand new line, no great talent but all five are hard workers and very smart. This line will surprise many in 2009." Seems fair to me, and I'd love to see them surprise. As pointed out by many, including me, it would be very cheerful and optimistic indeed to expect this line to come together at the beginning of the season. But at least these guys think that the Bills o-line should improve this year, and that's great to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Granted Trent has shown some comeback ability, against Denver also. But Kelly already had 3 years the the USFL and 4 years in the NFL and was a proven commodity. Not to mention, after he arrived he stated he couldn't do it alone and needed players around him to be successful, the Bills gave him the players he needed. My point was that Kelly and the 90 Bills were much more advanced as an offense before attempting to scale up the offensive tempo, plus Kelly had much more experience and help around him then Trent Edwards does. This current team with so many new comers and lacking experience at key positions suddenly wants to announce to the world that they will run the no huddle. Just seems to be hype that the OC will again be constantly calling shotgun passing plays no matter what the situation is... so when the offense fails, Trent will get the blame. Seems to me that the OP is wrong when he said that Schonert is already trying to set up a fallguy. Seems to me that it is you guys, including you, WILDRABBIT, who are anticipating failure and already, without even a preseason game being played, assuming Trent will have a bad year and starting in to make sure that the fallguy label is OK to use, as long as it falls on anyone but Trent. Let them play the games already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Seems to me that the OP is wrong when he said that Schonert is already trying to set up a fallguy. Seems to me that it is you guys, including you, WILDRABBIT, who are anticipating failure and already, without even a preseason game being played, assuming Trent will have a bad year and starting in to make sure that the fallguy label is OK to use, as long as it falls on anyone but Trent. Let them play the games already. If you read the article in The Buffalo News- "All eyes on Edwards" "The biggest thing for us offensively is our quarterback. It all starts with him," offensive coordinator Turk Schonert said. In my eyes Trent has already proven he can lead the team, proven he can be a competent QB. If anything Schonert should be saying "it falls on me" to get the players in position to make plays and score points! The guy that is unproven to me is the OC who kept calling pass plays against dime coverages with Evans being doubled and a backup QB in the game. Where did the offensive game plan go when Josh Reed was injured? It went nowhere because the OC didn't change a thing and kept calling passing plays when nobody was ever open. Even Trent complained about the play calling during last season. I'll come right out and say it, I don't like Schonert. I think he stinks as an offensive coordinator and will be the Bills downfall by trying to up tempo a crappy offensive scheme. Sorry if I'm still venting from last season, I know Mr Wilson wanted to fire Schonert and Jauron said no because of "continuity". I'd be doing backflips if the OC had come out and stated, we are gonna setup a power running attack sometimes utilizing an elephant offense and run it down their throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Referring to your comment that "the 2 min is the most dominant part of Trents game. See '08 Jax, Oak, SD...." what I see is that '08 Jax, Oak, SD were truly horrible teams. The thing I remember most of last year in regards to Trents 2 minute offense prowess was in the Wind Bowl again the Patsies*. Dick didn't get the play in in time and the helmet radio cut off. With the clock ticking down in the half, Trent runs over to the sidelines to see what play Daddy wants him to run. Can't see JK or Flutie doing this. Makes me nervous. I've been seeing a lot of chatter on here and seen articles about the Bills running the no huddle T-Gun offense. I'll believe it when I see it. It's a total 180 degree from Dick's philosophy of football which as I see it is to keep it close by maintaining long time consuming drives and playing bend but don't break, keep everything in front of you defense, and try to steal it at the end. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofLeonLett Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Going no-huddle doesn't mean we're switching to a constant two-minute drill. They can still use the entire clock if that's the cadence they go for on any particular play/drive. The highlight reels don't show our offense taking 30 seconds to set up a Jamie Mueller draw play. The pace of our offense ended up faster, no doubt, but it doesn't have to be run faster than any other offense. When you've got guys(Lofton, Thurman...) picking up 30 yard chunks, drives tend to go pretty fast as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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