Billy in 4C Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 This is Assuming that the draft was held tomorrow and no ones performance changed. As far as who is the best its no contest Bradord. He would have been drafted 1st overall if he came out a year early like he should have. Agreed. Not sure what Bradford was thinking after seeing Stafford's contract... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Sorry but Garcia at age 39 is not better than Trent The results beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Well Mel Kiper is paid to watch a lot of football and he is likely to know better than most on this board on wither or not Tebow is a good passer or not. A lot of scouts say Tebow is just not likely to be an NFL QB. Its mostly fans and media that go to or are related to the Florida football that tout Tebow. However if his new throwing motion works out all that might change. As for what I think personally from what I have seen I don't see him as a guy who can come in right away and be effective in the NFL other than as a wildcat kind of guy. HOWEVER I do think that if a team that has time to develop him for at least 3 or 4 seasons (Much like a Tony Romo or Aaron Rodgers type) could turn him into a NFL caliber guy. I just think that he needs a lot of polish and isn't a guy who can step in right away and help a team. I like Tebow too, worst case - he can be a valuble backup and a student of the game. I couldn't object with picking a guy like him to be on the roster. He will make a team better whether he is on the field or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 looks like a great class but how do you avoid the incredible talents of Tebow? I'm not the biggest fan because I would like to see him become a real passer but I just don't buy the fact that this kid can't make it as a QB in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Agreed. Not sure what Bradford was thinking after seeing Stafford's contract... Sanchez owes Bradford tens of millions of dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 At this point in their careers and moving beyond this year, I'd take Trent over: Chad Pennington Kellen Clemens/Mark Sanchez Matt Cassel JaMarcus Russell Kyle Orton Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn Kerry Collins David Garrard Matt Schaub Jason Campbell Alex Smith/Shaun Hill Mark Bulger Daunte Culpepper/Matt Stafford Sage Rosenfels/Brett Favre/Jackson Luke McCown/Byron Leftwich/Josh Freeman Jake Delhomme I wouldn't take Edwards over: Tom Brady Philip Rivers Ben Roethlisburger Carson Palmer Eli Manning Peyton Manning Donovan McNabb Drew Brees Jay Cutler Aaron Rogers Matt Ryan Kurt Warner And couldn't decide on: Joe Flacco, Romo and Matt Hasselbeck (really good QB, but not sure how he'll come back from his injury). That's 16 teams I'd take Trent over their starters, 12 teams I wouldn't, and 3 teams not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 How is it that a terrible passer is the best qb in next years NFL draft? I realize that it's fashionable to say this about Tebow, but how exactly is a guy with the following passing stats a "terrible" passer? - 2 consecutive years throwing for 25+ TDs - Career QB Rating 170+ - Career completion percentage ~65% (64.4 in 2008, a mere 2 percentage points behind Sam Bradford) - 4th in the nation in passer rating in 2008 - 13th in the nation in passing TDs in 2008 (30) - 4th in the nation in passing yards per attempt in 2008 (9.2, a full yard-per-attempt better than Graham Harrell, who lead the nation in passing yards) - 30:4 TD:INT ratio, which is better (percentage wise) than that of Sam Bradford (50:8) - career TD:INT ratio of 67:11 Just wondering what the criteria are for being a good passer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 At this point in their careers and moving beyond this year, I'd take Trent over: Chad Pennington Kellen Clemens/Mark Sanchez Matt Cassel JaMarcus Russell Kyle Orton Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn Kerry Collins David Garrard Matt Schaub Jason Campbell Alex Smith/Shaun Hill Mark Bulger Daunte Culpepper/Matt Stafford Sage Rosenfels/Brett Favre/Jackson Luke McCown/Byron Leftwich/Josh Freeman Jake Delhomme I wouldn't take Edwards over: Tom Brady Philip Rivers Ben Roethlisburger Carson Palmer Eli Manning Peyton Manning Donovan McNabb Drew Brees Jay Cutler Aaron Rogers Matt Ryan Kurt Warner And couldn't decide on: Joe Flacco, Romo and Matt Hasselbeck (really good QB, but not sure how he'll come back from his injury). That's 16 teams I'd take Trent over their starters, 12 teams I wouldn't, and 3 teams not sure. I agree with the second half of your list, but I think you're getting a little bit over-zealous with that first half. Here are the guys for which I can make a conclusive case are definitely ahead of edwards: - Pennington - he can obviously do more with less than trent can, as evidenced by his play in '08 - Schaub - the guy threw for over 3,000 yds and 15 tds in 11 games, trent hasn't sniffed that rate of productivity - Orton - wanna talk about an underrated guy, his record as a starter is 21-13 and he's had absolutely nothing with which to work at WR in chicago - Delhomme - He did take a team to the superbowl, and is a perennial playoff qb so it's kind of dubious to say edwards is at his level at this point other guys that i personally would take ahead of him include: - Garrard - Campbell - Bulger but that's more a personal preference than something I can make an obvious case for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I agree with the second half of your list, but I think you're getting a little bit over-zealous with that first half. Here are the guys for which I can make a conclusive case are definitely ahead of edwards: - Pennington - he can obviously do more with less than trent can, as evidenced by his play in '08 - Schaub - the guy threw for over 3,000 yds and 15 tds in 11 games, trent hasn't sniffed that rate of productivity - Orton - wanna talk about an underrated guy, his record as a starter is 21-13 and he's had absolutely nothing with which to work at WR in chicago - Delhomme - He did take a team to the superbowl, and is a perennial playoff qb so it's kind of dubious to say edwards is at his level at this point other guys that i personally would take ahead of him include: - Garrard - Campbell - Bulger but that's more a personal preference than something I can make an obvious case for. Most of those guys I shy'd away from because of their age. Pennington, I believe, is a better NFL QB right now than Trent is, but I don't know how long Chad will play for or how long he can continue to be effective. Schaub is consistently inconsistent. It is a certainty that he will miss games out of the year. He always seems to be hurt. That guy scares me. Orton? It probably helped that he's had one of the best defenses in the league. I don't believe he's a very good QB, and certainly doesn't have the upside of Edwards. We'll see how Orton does this year without that defense. Delhomme is a geaser, same for Bulger. I wouldn't take them on their last legs over a young, promising Edwards. Jason Campbell offers nothing of excitement, and Garrard has only played good for one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Schaub is consistently inconsistent. It is a certainty that he will miss games out of the year. He always seems to be hurt. That guy scares me. Inconsistent is better than consistenly unable to produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Inconsistent is better than consistenly unable to produce. Consistently? Wasn't that Trent's first full year as a starter, and just his 2nd year in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Consistently? Wasn't that Trent's first full year as a starter, and just his 2nd year in the NFL? Why don't you take the draft value chart into account and call '09 his rookie year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Why don't you take the draft value chart into account and call '09 his rookie year? I have no idea what that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Most of those guys I shy'd away from because of their age. Pennington, I believe, is a better NFL QB right now than Trent is, but I don't know how long Chad will play for or how long he can continue to be effective. Schaub is consistently inconsistent. It is a certainty that he will miss games out of the year. He always seems to be hurt. That guy scares me. Orton? It probably helped that he's had one of the best defenses in the league. I don't believe he's a very good QB, and certainly doesn't have the upside of Edwards. We'll see how Orton does this year without that defense. Delhomme is a geaser, same for Bulger. I wouldn't take them on their last legs over a young, promising Edwards. Jason Campbell offers nothing of excitement, and Garrard has only played good for one year. Understood about Pennington, but I have a few bones to pick with some of the others: - Schaub has indeed had injury issues, but so has edwards, and given the fact that they both miss games every year, I'd rather have the guy that's more productive when he's healthy - It's been a while since Chicago's defense was good. They were ranked 5th overall in 2006, in which Orton posted a 10-5 record as a starter...that's true enough. However, in 2007 they ranked 28th, and Orton's record as a starter was 2-1 (Grossman started 13 games). Same can be said for 2008, in which Chicago's D ranked 21st overall, and Orton's record as a starter was 9-7. - Re Delhomme and Bulger, I suppose it depends on how much promise you see in Edwards, but the performance of those guys (certainly Delhomme) can't be overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Understood about Pennington, but I have a few bones to pick with some of the others: - Schaub has indeed had injury issues, but so has edwards, and given the fact that they both miss games every year, I'd rather have the guy that's more productive when he's healthy - It's been a while since Chicago's defense was good. They were ranked 5th overall in 2006, in which Orton posted a 10-5 record as a starter...that's true enough. However, in 2007 they ranked 28th, and Orton's record as a starter was 2-1 (Grossman started 13 games). Same can be said for 2008, in which Chicago's D ranked 21st overall, and Orton's record as a starter was 9-7. - Re Delhomme and Bulger, I suppose it depends on how much promise you see in Edwards, but the performance of those guys (certainly Delhomme) can't be overlooked. Delhomme certainly had a bounceback year last year, to which I attribute to teams trying everything they could to load the box and try and stop that insane rushing attack. It was the only chance you had at stopping the Panthers. When Chicago's defense was good, Orton was the beneficiary. He barely played in 07' when the defense dropped off, and last year was carried by Matt Forte. I think Orton is just an average QB with not much upside, if any. I see your point about Schaub. I think I see him equal to Edwards, with not one being definitively better than the other, and I'll move him into my "not sure" category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I see your point about Schaub. I think I see him equal to Edwards, with not one being definitively better than the other, and I'll move him into my "not sure" category. If you were a Texans fan you would not agree with what you just typed. You would laugh at anyone who did type it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 If you were a Texans fan you would not agree with what you just typed. You would laugh at anyone who did type it. Yeah, and if I were a Cowboys fan I could say the same about Romo. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yeah, and if I were a Cowboys fan I could say the same about Romo. What's your point? My point is that any obejective observation leads to the conclusion that the Bills are one of the three teams most likely to draft a QB high next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 My point is that any obejective observation leads to the conclusion that the Bills are one of the three teams most likely to draft a QB high next year. I think the chances of us drafting a QB high next year are hinged upon the development of Trent Edwards this season. IMO, if he doesn't perform well with two top receivers and all the talent on offense, then he's never going to perform well. It is a make it or break it year for Trent, sort of a 50-50 chance he'll perform well or he won't. But, I think the odds are slightly in Trent's favor that he's more likely to perform well than not. We know how intelligent he is, and we know he gets better game after game. Add to that one of the top receivers in NFL history and what seems to be a more air focused attack on offense, and I think the odds are greater than 50% he performs well and proves he can be a capable starter in this league. So, given that the percentage Trent performs well is greater than 50%-50%, it is safe to say the likelyhood we'll need to draft a QB high in next years draft would be on the downward end, whether you believe it's 60-40, 70-30 and so on. I think there are teams with a far greater percentage of likelyhood that will need a QB. There's no way we are in the top 3 teams to need a QB when there are compelling odds that we won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think the odds are slightly in Trent's favor that he's more likely to perform than not. We know how intelligent he is, and we know he gets better game after game. Add to that one of the top receivers in NFL history and what seems to be a more air focused attack on offense, and I think the odds are greater than 50% he performs well and proves he can be a capable starter in this league. What on Earth makes you and so many people think of Trent as "intelligent"? Is it the blank stares with the "duh" look on his face? Being less stupid than Tony Romo or Brett Favre does not make a person intelligent. And he gets better game after game? Are you talking about Scrabble or something? The last sports game he was in involved the Blue Jays and the results were suspect. And the NE game was quite the feat too. Listen; I too hope Trent has a great year. I also hope to witness a man walking on the surface of Jupiter, but Jupiter doesn't have a surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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