Leonidas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dean (and whoever else) I dont mean to ruin this thread and get into discussing politics... if you want start another thread or PM me instead of having this one turn into a train wreck! I dont want to be "that guy"! Then delete your post. D-bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The Bills ARE staying in the Buff/Niagara region. So who in Toronto has the $3B to buy, build a new stadium on the private dollar, and pay the relocation fee. Pay the 25-25% exchange rate and deal with all the backlash from the CFL. The Yankees (yes the Yankees) who have the team paid for and are building a 1B stadium in NY are finding it difficult to find a good pricing point for tickets, have gone back to the City and State and ask for HUNDREDs of millions of dollars more because they are having trouble finacning everything. So multiply that by three and apply it to Canada. Toronto does not have the money to build a stadium and there is NOT the political will either. The Bills will stay in WNY. They have a stadium that is debt free....and that is their trump card along with tradition and one of the best fan bases in the league. Buffalo should draw from Southern Ontario as it already does and the vast majority of fans relate more to a Bills fan than a "Toronto" fan in the corporate suite sense. There are many businesses in Southern Ontario/Hamilton/NF/NOTL that buy club seats and smaller suites etc... The fan base and population already exists and is comparable to many other NFL cities (Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cinci, Jacksonville, Green Bay). The state, the city and most inportantly the fans are not letting this team go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 The Bills ARE staying in the Buff/Niagara region. So who in Toronto has the $3B to buy, build a new stadium on the private dollar, and pay the relocation fee. Pay the 25-25% exchange rate and deal with all the backlash from the CFL. The Yankees (yes the Yankees) who have the team paid for and are building a 1B stadium in NY are finding it difficult to find a good pricing point for tickets, have gone back to the City and State and ask for HUNDREDs of millions of dollars more because they are having trouble finacning everything. So multiply that by three and apply it to Canada. Toronto does not have the money to build a stadium and there is NOT the political will either. The Bills will stay in WNY. They have a stadium that is debt free....and that is their trump card along with tradition and one of the best fan bases in the league. Buffalo should draw from Southern Ontario as it already does and the vast majority of fans relate more to a Bills fan than a "Toronto" fan in the corporate suite sense. There are many businesses in Southern Ontario/Hamilton/NF/NOTL that buy club seats and smaller suites etc... The fan base and population already exists and is comparable to many other NFL cities (Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cinci, Jacksonville, Green Bay). The state, the city and most inportantly the fans are not letting this team go anywhere. Market is set already, fan base pays and fills the stadium. How many fans really come in from Toronto to the stadium now??? 10,000?? 5,000?? Bringing in new money needs to be done at a corporate to sell suites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Look, if the market is working against you, what do you do? Get the government involved. Write Byron Brown, Chuck Shumer, David Patterson (quickly, while he's still in office. Better yet, make him an audio tape (sorry, couldn't resist)), whomever your local Erie County representatives are and get them involved! Work towards getting influential community members involved: Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Danny Wegman, Tom Golisano, Luke Russert; get petitions going, get signatures, make this an issue!! Let the people in charge know that we will not go quietly into the night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You can do better than that. I will try... When excitement like that abounds in Canada, it's certainly understandable that Toronto can't sell out an NFL game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I will try... When excitement like that abounds in Canada, it's certainly understandable that Toronto can't sell out an NFL game Great shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Apparently too many people here don't understand the TV rights situation, and how important the local telecast is, in order to make the system work. If games don't sell out, they don't get televised locally, and the bulk of their potential viewership is lost. That impacts the advertising rates, which in fact impacts the amount the networks pay to the NFL...the TV rights are the fuel that drives the NFL machine. LA doesn't have a team, for Christ's sake. If that doesn't explain what fan attendance means to the NFL, I guess I can't help you. The value of the TV contracts is derived from the top 8-10 markets. The local TV ad revenue that ultimately ends up in the pockets of the national network carrying the game is miniscule in markets like Buffalo. LA doesn't have a team because, still, no one there has put together a viable stadium plan/deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The value of the TV contracts is derived from the top 8-10 markets. The local TV ad revenue that ultimately ends up in the pockets of the national network carrying the game is miniscule in markets like Buffalo. LA doesn't have a team because, still, no one there has put together a viable stadium plan/deal. You make a good point, and one that is totally outrageous, I believe. First the outrageous: The top 10 markets comprise around 30% of the total TV households in the USA. To think that, alone, sets the rate for national TV ads is, off base, I believe. In the old days, when a Network could only own stations in 5 markets, that may have been more likely. But, today, Networks can own stations in more markets. For example CBS owns stations in 14 markets (12 of which are NFL markets) and Fox owns stations in 17 markets (14 which have an NFL team). It is the money from these O&O's that really is where the bulk of profit (for the networks) is made. But, for Nationa (network) sales, even 30% of the US is hardly enough to even start a buy, under most circumstances. The metered-markets, as a group, represent enough of the USA to conclude they set the market for National (network) sales. Now, I've been out of the business for a few years, but I don't know that too much has changed in that respect. OTOH, you make a good point about Buffalo being a smaller market, and that it's viewing wouldn't likely make much of a difference in the national ratings. That is true, in some respect. But, at least in the past, Buffalo overdelivered, by quite a bit, on its delivery to NFL ratings. That still doesn't make Buffalo, by itself, a big player in the national number. But...there is more to it than that, in my experience. Networks pay big bucks for the NFL, not simply because of the money they make selling ads. I have heard claims that, looked at in a vacuum, the networks actually lose money on the NFL deal (I don't believe those claims, BTW). But, the NFL gives the network a large audience to promote their other programs and the affiliates a place to promote their local news (and deliver a big audience as a lead-in to those programs/newscasts). So, you have to count the other impact on the networks, and not simply what the removal of Buffalo might due to TV ratings. With all that said, I agree I may be overstating the impact the loss of Buffalo viewers might have on a decision to move a team to Toronto. But, consider this, too. If the NFL keeps their current blackout rule in effect for Canada, then what is the likelihood the games Toronto (for a Toronto based NFL team) sell-out, on a regular basis? If they don't sell out, how does the lack of local viewership in Toronto impact the rights that a Canadian network pays for the games? In the short-term, it might not be a major deal, as the rights holders might pay for the sizzle, at the start. But, if that market fails to deliver big ratings, because the local games aren't shown, the NFL should expect their rights going forward to far less. In other words, it's very complicated. That's why the networks hire people like me (or me a few years ago ) to work out scenarios, predict audience, rates, etc. I was trying to give a short-simple answer to why it isn't always as easy to do as many here seem to think. I can tell you, sometimes the deal gets done despite a preponderance of evidence that it is unlikely to succeed....so there is always the wild-card decision to consider, too. But, and this is simply from experience and with little current data to look at, it seems to me the NFL would want to use Toronto, and LA to expand the league, and not to cannibalize what they already have. And, given the current world economic situation, I'm also guessing that relocation are likely to be on hold, for a short time, anyway. But, I've been wrong plenty of times in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 If the NFL keeps their current blackout rule in effect for Canada, then what is the likelihood the games Toronto (for a Toronto based NFL team) sell-out, on a regular basis? It's my understanding that the NFL only restricts broadcasts in the US - based on foreign board members posting that they get all the NFL games they care to watch. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 It's my understanding that the NFL only restricts broadcasts in the US - based on foreign board members posting that they get all the NFL games they care to watch. No? The rules are local to markets with local teams. As there is no team in any Canadian market, there is no blackout rule, right now. But, if there is a team in Toronto, would the NFL exempt that franchise from a rule the other teams in the league have to follow? In truth, though, the rule is there to protect the owner, and encourage attendance to the game, so maybe my question isn't properly worded. How about: If there is a team in Toronto, would the NFL deny that franchise the same protection it gives every other NFL team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 CFL owner's complain more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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