Gene Frenkle Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 This is the first I've really heard of residential geothermal heating. It sounds very promising and cost-effective. Anyone have any experience with or opinions on this? http://www.reddawn.com/featart11-98.html I wonder if there will be any tax incentives or rebates in the future that will make this more attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 This is the first I've really heard of residential geothermal heating. It sounds very promising and cost-effective. Anyone have any experience with or opinions on this? http://www.reddawn.com/featart11-98.html I wonder if there will be any tax incentives or rebates in the future that will make this more attractive. My in-laws have it. Their heating/cooling bills are less than half of my 90% "efficient" furnace/AC. The big issue is the cost upfront. If I were building new, that'd be the direction I'd go but be prepared for a big bill. There used to be a small tax incentive (like $400). I don't know if it's still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 My in-laws have it. Their heating/cooling bills are less than half of my 90% "efficient" furnace/AC. The big issue is the cost upfront. If I were building new, that'd be the direction I'd go but be prepared for a big bill. There used to be a small tax incentive (like $400). I don't know if it's still around. That's it exactly. If you're prepared to live there long enough so that your savings will make up for the upfront cost, then I'd recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 That's it exactly. If you're prepared to live there long enough so that your savings will make up for the upfront cost, then I'd recommend it. What kind of up-front cost are we talking about? Do you know of any reliable installers in WNY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 That's it exactly. If you're prepared to live there long enough so that your savings will make up for the upfront cost, then I'd recommend it. One of my best friends from Erie (also 24, well 25 as of five days ago) just built a house. Yep, that's right, he's got that kind of coin already. I was furious, FURIOUS that he opted not to have a single green component of his home. He's also the biggest cheap skate I know, thrifty to a fault. I don't know how long it takes to get an ROI on something like this, or on ANY component you can add to a home you're building, but he's prepared to settle into this home for a long time, and it just absolutely blew my mind that he didn't opt for something that will save him mega bucks IN THE LONG RUN. Plus, there's always the personal utility derived from doing the right thing for the environment. Man, his stock dropped big time in my book. Plus, the home he's building (as the son of an architect I took personal offense to this too) is ugly as sin. I take that back, it lacks the character to even be considered ugly, it's just a giant box with a garage. Man, two strikes! /tangetial rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 What kind of up-front cost are we talking about? Do you know of any reliable installers in WNY? I have no idea about NY. Here is a link that might be helpful: http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your...m/mytopic=12670 It says: On average, a geothermal heat pump system costs about $2,500 per ton of capacity, or roughly $7,500 for a 3-ton unit (a typical residential size). ). A system using horizontal ground loops will generally cost less than a system with vertical loops. In comparison, other systems would cost about $4,000 with air conditioning. I don't know if that's just the cost of the system, or the cost of the system + installation. Check your utilities website, and see if they have any information on geothermal that could be useful for your location. Or maybe just give them a call, I'm sure they have some sales people that could talk to you about it. My guess is that you're gonna need to live in your house about 10 years to pay for the upfront cost. But that's just a guess without knowing the actual installation costs, and average utility bills. I'm basically thinking of about $1000/year savings and an upfront cost of around $10,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I have no idea about NY. Here is a link that might be helpful: http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your...m/mytopic=12670 It says: I don't know if that's just the cost of the system, or the cost of the system + installation. Check your utilities website, and see if they have any information on geothermal that could be useful for your location. Or maybe just give them a call, I'm sure they have some sales people that could talk to you about it. My guess is that you're gonna need to live in your house about 10 years to pay for the upfront cost. But that's just a guess without knowing the actual installation costs, and average utility bills. I'm basically thinking of about $1000/year savings and an upfront cost of around $10,000. Is that upfront cost an ADDITIONAL cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Is that upfront cost an ADDITIONAL cost? As I said, I don't know if that's just the cost of the system, or the system + installation. I do know that my utility encourages it, and helps people get financing for it from a local credit union. As I said, call your utility and see what they can tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Is that upfront cost an ADDITIONAL cost? No, I think that's total cost for the system + installation (from what I've read so far). Depending on the current mortgage rates I wonder if it would make sense to roll a system like this into a mortgage refinance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I don't but I know someone who does. Yes that maniacal earth hating George Bush does. I wonder how that stacks up against Mr. Greenjeans Al Gore's home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 I don't but I know someone who does. Yes that maniacal earth hating George Bush does. I wonder how that stacks up against Mr. Greenjeans Al Gore's home? Interesting, but I'd imagine W wasn't worried about up-front costs, rolling his systems a mortgage re-fi or how long it would take him to recoup the costs. Somewhat surprisingly admirable all the same. Al Gore: Do as I say, not as I do. George W: Do as I do, not as I say (heh heh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Interesting, but I'd imagine W wasn't worried about up-front costs, rolling his systems a mortgage re-fi or how long it would take him to recoup the costs. Somewhat surprisingly admirable all the same. Al Gore: Do as I say, not as I do. George W: Do as I do, not as I say (heh heh). They're politicians what do you expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Also: Residential Renewable Energy Tax Credit Geothermal heat pumps * There is no maximum credit for systems placed in service after 2008. The maximum credit is $2,000 for systems placed in service in 2008. * Systems must be placed in service from January 1, 2008, through December 31, 2016. * The geothermal heat pump must meet federal Energy Star program requirements in effect at the time the installation is completed. * The home served by the system does not have to be the taxpayer’s principal residence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 No, I think that's total cost for the system + installation (from what I've read so far). Depending on the current mortgage rates I wonder if it would make sense to roll a system like this into a mortgage refinance. That's pretty much right. I know the cost of unit/installation for my house from Water Furnace was $12K for Heat/AC and that was using the existing ducts. Just couldn't make the numbers work for the situation. If I had built the house, I'd have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 My builder has a whole geo thermal/solar community about 30 miles from where I live that is building. Each house comes equiped with a wind turbine as well. Much smaller homes (roughly 1600 sq ft) but supposedly negative utility bills as they generate enough to sell back to the grid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Interesting, but I'd imagine W wasn't worried about up-front costs, rolling his systems a mortgage re-fi or how long it would take him to recoup the costs. Somewhat surprisingly admirable all the same. Al Gore: Do as I say, not as I do. George W: Do as I do, not as I say (heh heh). Did you just give W a compliment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 That's pretty much right. I know the cost of unit/installation for my house from Water Furnace was $12K for Heat/AC and that was using the existing ducts. Just couldn't make the numbers work for the situation. If I had built the house, I'd have done it. How long ago was that? Does that mean that the cost has come down recently or that there are other circumstances in your location (size of house, soil conditions, etc...) that bump that $10K number up by 20%? I'm sure one would pay more as an early adopter, but I can't imagine that anything but the equipment cost drop very dramatically over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Also: Residential Renewable Energy Tax Credit * There is no maximum credit for systems placed in service after 2008. The maximum credit is $2,000 for systems placed in service in 2008. So that I have this straight, this is saying that I can write off the entire cost any energy star compliant geothermal heating/cooling system that I install before 2017? Assuming so, would I write off the whole thing in the year it was purchased/installed? Would I be able to write in the same way it off if I rolled it into a mortgage refinance? I'd love some guidance from someone who knows what their talking about with this stuff. PPP = freetaxadvice.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Did you just give W a compliment? In a backhanded sort of way. His actions are commendable, but many of the policies he enacted while President run counter to what he chooses for his personal use. In a way, he's just as hypocritical here as many claim that Al Gore is. The way Gore talks, he should be living in a tent in the woods somewhere living off the land. The way Bush talks, he should have several coal power plants in his back yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 In a backhanded sort of way. His actions are commendable, but many of the policies he enacted while President run counter to what he chooses for his personal use. In a way, he's just as hypocritical here as many claim that Al Gore is. The way Gore talks, he should be living in a tent in the woods somewhere living off the land. The way Bush talks, he should have several coal power plants in his back yard. So Bush is a hypocrite but in a good way whereas Gore is a hypocrite in a sack of shiit sort of way. I'll go along with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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