Offside Number 76 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 really? that's a nice thing to say. but... based on what? --lots of new construction downtown in the last five years --people returning to the area, and people who've never lived here moving to the area, rather than people leaving --economic stability compared to the rest of the country There always will be something wrong in this city and in every other city. But for once, I really think we're doing okay. Never felt this way until about a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Just got through the most recent issue of SI - I am tagging this article by Mitch Albom as I think it runs distinct parallels to WNY and this topic - the good and the bad. It's a very good read, take the time to read it....I find myself oddly pulling for Detroit now... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...roit/index.html I was just thinking abiut Detroit last night. A few yeaers back my wife really wanted to move there (long story not worth telling) Am I ever glad I held my ground on that one. I really believe one of the big three, if not two, will end up in bankruptcy this year. Chrysler gutted itself for sale months ago but the problem is who is going to buy it. Detroit is on the losing end of the overcapacity battle. BTW I think the Japanese would be in the same boat if their government was not so protectionist. It think it is only a matter of time before they are in the same sinking boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 --lots of new construction downtown in the last five years --people returning to the area, and people who've never lived here moving to the area, rather than people leaving --economic stability compared to the rest of the country There always will be something wrong in this city and in every other city. But for once, I really think we're doing okay. Never felt this way until about a year ago. sweet. i hope you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinVA Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Keep on electing Democrats for your state and local governments and Buffalo deserves to be in economic blight for a long time to come. Most urban areas in this country are run by Democrats and most are sh-- holes with high taxes, crime, poor schools, and poor public service. The north east and now the mid-western states now have mostly Democrats running the states and it's all crumbling down. The problem now is that all you democrats and leftist are moving out of your lousy circumstance and coming south. They are now turning our nice republican communities into liberal communities and bringing the same crappy policies and politics down here. Stay the hell out of Virginia people!!! If you want a better community and future, here's just small list of things that need to happen: Elect conservative business leaders Lower all taxes Dismantle the government unions Provide incentives for businesses Cut the red tape for new development (environmental, zoning, etc) Consolidate governmental services (school systems, police, garbage, etc) Outsource most services to commercial contractors Hold elected officials accountable Run the Government like business with stated goals and objectives Partner with other local communities Provide people with school vouchers to give people a choice and create competition with the failing public schools Create incubator zones for small business Team with universities to start enterprise zones Create a program for retaining the best and the brightest people in the area Will it happen, never! we are our own worst enemy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The brain drain is a problem at both ends; it weakens WNY, and it artificially inflates the quality of communities in the south that historically underfund their own educational systems, but attract smart folks and investment from elsewhere then pat themselves on the back for their low taxes.... That demographic Ponzi scheme is in danger of falling apart now that those southern states who relied on their low wages to attract business (such as South Carolina, where I once lived) find that those jobs can just as easily head off somewhere even cheaper, and that the flow of "damn Yankees" could easily be diverted in other directions.... That is a subject for a long discussion of its own, but it needs to be considered every time someone waxes rhapsodic about how much lower taxes are in the South. OK... I live in the South. Taxes for a $300k house here in Atlanta are about $2 -3K a year or $200.00 a month in the close suburbs. So roughly $1800 TOTAL a month for a $300K house Taxes in the burbs of Buffalo for a $300K house $12-15K or $1250.00 a MONTH. Total House payment $2850.00 You do the math... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 --lots of new construction downtown in the last five years --people returning to the area, and people who've never lived here moving to the area, rather than people leaving --economic stability compared to the rest of the country There always will be something wrong in this city and in every other city. But for once, I really think we're doing okay. Never felt this way until about a year ago. Lotsa New construction downtown? WHERE??? How may cranes do you see? I have had the opportunity to see most of the major citys in this country the last few years and one thing I always look for to gauge the economy in the city is how many cranes do you see. Miami has been BOOMING. I saw 10 or so cranes there. Atlanta about 15. Dallas 5 or 6. Houston 7-8. Nashville 4 -5. Memphis 2-3 Just my simple way of judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 OK... I live in the South. Taxes for a $300k house here in Atlanta are about $2 -3K a year or $200.00 a month in the close suburbs. So roughly $1800 TOTAL a month for a $300K house Taxes in the burbs of Buffalo for a $300K house $12-15K or $1250.00 a MONTH. Total House payment $2850.00 You do the math... I would be happy to... but I am confused; are you agreeing, disagreeing, or changing the subject? I have family in Atlanta, and am well aware of its attractions. All that being said, many southern politicians and residents do not completely appreciate the bases of their postwar prosperity, and the consequences of their chosen path to growth have been hidden by the massive importation of people and capital from other areas. That was my point. Two small examples come to mind for future discussions: Local taxes in many southern states are indeed lower than the north. And schools in many southern states, especially outside of the biggest cities, are among the worst in the nation in educational rankings. That is not as big a concern when college grads from Yankeeland, drawn by those lower property taxes, will bring the education paid for with higher local taxes in the north down with them. That is a good short-term plan, but it raises sustainability questions that southerners, both born and imported, rarely if ever consider. Many southern states profited from enormous federal outlays for highways and infrastructure in the postwar era while northern states built highways a generation earlier with local funds and tolls. Southerners now drive on those highways and complain about the evil federal government, or laugh at Yankees with their toll roads. The choice to pursue low-density suburbanized development has also led to southern cities such as Atlanta being heavily automobile dependent, with the attendant problems of long commutes, gridlock, drought (a product of overdevelopment and sprawl), and other environmental issues. Sustainability is in question there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 OK... I live in the South. Taxes for a $300k house here in Atlanta are about $2 -3K a year or $200.00 a month in the close suburbs. So roughly $1800 TOTAL a month for a $300K house Taxes in the burbs of Buffalo for a $300K house $12-15K or $1250.00 a MONTH. Total House payment $2850.00 You do the math... Just curious, can you get a house, similar in quality and size, in Atlanta for $300K, to what you can get in Buffalo/WNY? You can't here in northern Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I would be happy to... but I am confused; are you agreeing, disagreeing, or changing the subject? I have family in Atlanta, and am well aware of its attractions. All that being said, many southern politicians and residents do not completely appreciate the bases of their postwar prosperity, and the consequences of their chosen path to growth have been hidden by the massive importation of people and capital from other areas. That was my point. Two small examples come to mind for future discussions: Local taxes in many southern states are indeed lower than the north. And schools in many southern states, especially outside of the biggest cities, are among the worst in the nation in educational rankings. That is not as big a concern when college grads from Yankeeland, drawn by those lower property taxes, will bring the education paid for with higher local taxes in the north down with them. That is a good short-term plan, but it raises sustainability questions that southerners, both born and imported, rarely if ever consider. Many southern states profited from enormous federal outlays for highways and infrastructure in the postwar era while northern states built highways a generation earlier with local funds and tolls. Southerners now drive on those highways and complain about the evil federal government, or laugh at Yankees with their toll roads. The choice to pursue low-density suburbanized development has also led to southern cities such as Atlanta being heavily automobile dependent, with the attendant problems of long commutes, gridlock, drought (a product of overdevelopment and sprawl), and other environmental issues. Sustainability is in question there as well. I respect your answer. It was a well thought out answer and well described. Not something we normally see on this site lol... I do agree we have some issues here in the South, however, we have been able to do something Buffalo hasnt been able to do. Attract corporations and Jobs that require brain power. I am a fan of Buffalo. I dont like its current situation however. I could live there as well, keep my current job, make the same money I do here but wouldnt be able to sustain the standard of living I have here. However, I have looked into investing in Buffalo. The issues I have with that though is the business tax situation. THAT is something that needs to change. It would take most profits and send them out of Buffalo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Just curious, can you get a house, similar in quality and size, in Atlanta for $300K, to what you can get in Buffalo/WNY? You can't here in northern Florida. Heres a link to a house in the close burbs.. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/reb/958685344.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Heres a link to a house in the close burbs.. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/reb/958685344.html Nice... but steve, Cumming is FAR from a close burb. You would commute nearly an hour to the city in traffic. That is precisely the problem in metro ATL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Heres a link to a house in the close burbs.. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/reb/958685344.html 38 miles from Atlanta is the "close burbs"? I understood your post, and you make good points. But, I don't think you are making an "apples to apples" comparison. I think you can get a home, similar to that, for less money, much closer to Buffalo (in the nicer suburbs) and can certainly get it for FAR less, if you are willing to live 40 miles away. I might be wrong, but I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 38 miles from Atlanta is the "close burbs"? I understood your post, and you make good points. But, I don't think you are making an "apples to apples" comparison. I think you can get a home, similar to that, for less money, much closer to Buffalo (in the nicer suburbs) and can certainly get it for FAR less, if you are willing to live 40 miles away. I might be wrong, but I don't think so. ok How about this one... 2500 a month will get you this... http://atlanta.craigslist.org/reb/987303919.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 ok How about this one... 2500 a month will get you this... http://atlanta.craigslist.org/reb/987303919.html Do a similar search for areas you know, and would consider living in Buffalo...then do the math. The taxes may be more, but I'm guessing the total nut will be close as the cost of real estate is cheaper. Plus, at least in comparison to most everywhere else I have lived, including St Augustine, the cost of living is simply less in WNY than it is most places. If I could have made the same $$ I made in SF, LA, Boston, NYC, Long Island, etc, in Buffalo, I would have lived like a king, instead of merely a prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 ok How about this one... 2500 a month will get you this... http://atlanta.craigslist.org/reb/987303919.html Heres a buffalo house... http://buffalo.craigslist.org/reb/977564546.html How much would morgage and taxes be in Clarence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Do a similar search for areas you know, and would consider living in Buffalo...then do the math. The taxes may be more, but I'm guessing the total nut will be close as the cost of real estate is cheaper. Plus, at least in comparison to most everywhere else I have lived, including St Augustine, the cost of living is simply less in WNY than it is most places. If I could have made the same $$ I made in SF, LA, Boston, NYC, Long Island, etc, in Buffalo, I would have lived like a king, instead of merely a prince. You may be right... St Augustine isnt Buffalo... I guess the original point is the taxes are killing the area of buffalo. I wish it were different. It doesnt need to be that way however. The unions and overlap of services are killing it up there (all been mentioned before) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 It's cultural. No entrenenural spirit = no future. Everybody still there sits around pointing fingures at the politicians of the past, arguing about increasing their share of federal money, and wishing for sugar-daddy companies to move to the region and give everybody cushy union jobs instead of actually going out there and creating their own. Start a business - a real business, that exports a good or service outside the region, not another corner pizzeria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Heres a buffalo house... http://buffalo.craigslist.org/reb/977564546.html How much would morgage and taxes be in Clarence? One of my best friends lives in that neighborhood on Fox Trace. That area is among the priciest in WNY. Nice houses, though. You can get a mansion in Buffalo for under $300K: http://www.wnypropertiesllc.com/listing.asp?propid=69769 Yes, property taxes are higher in NYS. But, in the WNY area, homes are more affordable and the cost of living is surprisingly low. While high taxes may have been a factor in people leaving WNY, lack of good jobs...and the weather, are likely the biggest factors. And, taxes are only partly to blame for the job loss. Buffalo and Niagara Falls were built around an old economy, heavily invested in industrial and chemical employment. Unfortunately, the city didn't adapt in a timely fashion when conditions changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 One of my best friends lives in that neighborhood on Fox Trace. That area is among the priciest in WNY. Nice houses, though. You can get a mansion in Buffalo for under $300K: http://www.wnypropertiesllc.com/listing.asp?propid=69769 Yes, property taxes are higher in NYS. But, in the WNY area, homes are more affordable and the cost of living is surprisingly low. While high taxes may have been a factor in people leaving WNY, lack of good jobs...and the weather, are likely the biggest factors. And, taxes are only partly to blame for the job loss. Buffalo and Niagara Falls were built around an old economy, heavily invested in industrial and chemical employment. Unfortunately, the city didn't adapt in a timely fashion when conditions changed. That one is a fantastic house! Thanks for sharing that with me. Any idea where i can find the tax amount for that area over there? I do love Buffalo. I could live there and raise my kids. Its a struggling area however and that concernes me. If i lost my job here I could probably find a similar one. If I moved there and lost my job... Probably not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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