NCAA rule question

[billfan63]

when a player with the ball has his knee down the play is dead, but when a guy holding for a FG

decides to make a fake he gets to receive the ball on one knee then stand up and either run or pass,

just saw this in the Texas Tech /Nebraska game and the guys in the booth didn't explain

[The Dean]

when a player with the ball has his knee down the play is dead, but when a guy holding for a FG

decides to make a fake he gets to receive the ball on one knee then stand up and either run or pass,

just saw this in the Texas Tech /Nebraska game and the guys in the booth didn't explain

 

 

I think you just did.

 

It is curious, though.

[/dev/null]

There's an exception in the rulebook for holders

[Bmwolf21]

There's an exception in the rulebook for holders

^^What he said.

 

I asked the same question a few years ago, because a similar situation happened in an FSU-Miami game. The Miami holder bobbled then dropped the snap on a FG attempt and then picked it up and ran for the first down. The explanation I got that day was "there's an exception for the holders."

 

Which makes sense, because if there wasn't an exception, then by rule the play would be dead as soon as the holder got the ball - because his knee is already down.

[The Dean]

^^What he said.

 

I asked the same question a few years ago, because a similar situation happened in an FSU-Miami game. The Miami holder bobbled then dropped the snap on a FG attempt and then picked it up and ran for the first down. The explanation I got that day was "there's an exception for the holders."

 

Which makes sense, because if there wasn't an exception, then by rule the play would be dead as soon as the holder got the ball - because his knee is already down.

 

 

BINGO, we have a winner!

[VOR]

I always thought the one-knee-down-play-is-over rule was stupid. They should just make the rules the same as the NFL. That's what most of these kids are striving to play in anyway.

[Lori]

dev/ and Bmwolf nailed it. I don't have the NCAA rulebook, but the NFHS uses the same rules. Here's what they say:

Rule 4-2-2: The ball becomes dead and the down is ended:

a. When a runner goes out of bounds, is held so his forward progress is stopped or allows any part of his person other than hand or foot to touch the ground.

Exceptions:

1. The ball remains live if, at the snap, a place-kick holder with his knee(s) on the ground and with a teammate in kicking position catches or recovers the snap while his knee(s) is on the ground and places the ball for a kick, or if he rises to advance, hand, kick, or pass; or

 

2. The ball remains live if, at the snap, a place-kick holder with his knee(s) on the ground and with a teammate in kicking position rises and catches or recovers an errant snap and immediately returns his knee(s) to the ground and places the ball for a kick or again rises to advance, hand, kick, or pass.

 

NOTE: The ball becomes dead if the place-kick holder muffs the snap or fumbles and recovers after his knees have been off the ground, and he then touches the ground with other than hand or foot while in possession of the ball.

 

Here's a good one for you -- ran into it at my game Friday night, and neither coach had ever seen it happen before. (Nor had I, but our radio announcer got it right.) The team I cover was punting from inside its own 10. Bad snap, blocked punt, loose ball knocked out of the end zone.

 

Ruling: Touchback. What happened?

[eSJayDee]

Ruling: Touchback. What happened?

 

Interesting. But after thinking about it, I guess it's consistent.

Think of the Lett/Beebe play & those similar. Ball is fumbled or is otherwise loose and it rolls out of the endzone w/o the "offensive" team recovering. The ball goes back to the team who was defending that endzone - touchback.

[Lori]

Interesting. But after thinking about it, I guess it's consistent.

Think of the Lett/Beebe play & those similar. Ball is fumbled or is otherwise loose and it rolls out of the endzone w/o the "offensive" team recovering. The ball goes back to the team who was defending that endzone - touchback.

But that was a Dallas fumble through the end zone Buffalo was defending. This was a kick blocked through the kicking team's own end zone, which is normally a safety ... unless one very specific action happens.

 

Here's the rule I didn't know existed until I saw it called, then frantically dug through the rulebook to find it:

It is a touchback when:

Any scrimmage kick or free kick becomes dead on or behind K's goal line with the ball in possession of K (including when the ball is declared dead with no player in possession) and the new force is R's muff or bat of the kick after it has touched the ground.

 

The referee ruled that during the scramble to recover the loose ball, one of the players from the receiving team inadvertently struck it with his leg, forcing it out of the back of the end zone. Tough to see from the press box -- the stands aren't that high, and the lighting at that field could be brighter -- but the block itself definitely didn't send the ball all the way past the back line.

[justnzane]

Interesting. But after thinking about it, I guess it's consistent.

Think of the Lett/Beebe play & those similar. Ball is fumbled or is otherwise loose and it rolls out of the endzone w/o the "offensive" team recovering. The ball goes back to the team who was defending that endzone - touchback.

 

I was going to say the same thing. Lori, you gotta leave a little more time for people to respond

[eSJayDee]

But that was a Dallas fumble through the end zone Buffalo was defending. This was a kick blocked through the kicking team's own end zone, which is normally a safety ... unless one very specific action happens.

 

Here's the rule I didn't know existed until I saw it called, then frantically dug through the rulebook to find it:

 

Again, I would contend that it's consistent; perhaps I didn't fully explain my reasoning.

Yes, if a kick gets blocked directly out of the EZ it is & should be a safety (AFAIK). But, if the ball doesn't go directly out, and a "scrum" ensues, if the rcving team is unable to gain possession, it loses possession. (I'd like to point out that's what happens on a "partially" blocked kick - if the rcving team leaves it alone, it's their ball once it dies; if they try to play it & fail to fully gain possession, it's a free ball & if the kickers recover, it's theirs, 1st & 10.

 

I had assumed that the only way it would be a touchback was if the kicking team tried to advance/recover the ball & failed to do so. (I don't watch or know much about college ball, but can you advance a blocked kick?)

 

I realize that Lett's was a fumble, but it is the probably the most recognizable play (not just for us Bills fans) where the "out of the EZ" rule would come into play.