KD in CA Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 It's a fact more people have voted for Hillary than Obama. Obama runs the risk of disenfranchising Michigan and Florida voters at his own peril. I never thought an African-American would want to disenfranchise voters after those that came before him sacrificed so much to be counted, but that must be some of the "change" he talks of. Oh boy, the fabled 'disenfranchised' argument. Since you are so worried about every vote counting, are you fully in favor of voiding all the super delegate votes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Oh boy, the fabled 'disenfranchised' argument. Since you are so worried about every vote counting, are you fully in favor of voiding all the super delegate votes? I'd be fine with the simple process of winner take all, whoever got the most votes in a state gets all the delegates for that state. Anything other than that is playing games with the will of the voters in those states. Caucuses, giving one district more delegates than another with similar populations, it all distorts the will of the voters. The state primaries should be the same as the general election, you get the most votes, you get all the electoral votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 it all distorts the will of the voters. But, apparently, you don't have a problem with super-delagates 'distorting' the will of the voters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 "States won", what a dumb arguement. Like winning Utah's primary is going to mean anything in the general election. If you want to play that game, count the electoral votes from the swing states each won, and then tell me who's the stronger candidate. Oh good one, you really got me there. I was just trying to show there is not one measurable category in which Clinton leads (unless you can somehow measure corruption). Oh wait - you can measure that, and in fact, she is solely in 1st: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story...e_queen_of_pork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Oh wait - you can measure that, and in fact, she is solely in 1st: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story...e_queen_of_pork Truly depressing. The revolution just can't get here soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 No - Florida and MI disenfranchised themselves when they decided to break the party primary rules. It had nothing to do with the candidates. Yep. The Dem Party machine in both States made a selfish grab for an expected prominence, hoping to bring a gravy train full of free dinners, trips etc. for themselves. What they did was to expose the joke perpetrated by the Democratic Party about voter disenfranchisement and voter fraud, and ended up showing the true colors of the Dem Party. The "Superdelegate" system came to light...i.e., to quote Orwell..."All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others". "The Party of The People"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Yep. The Dem Party machine in both States made a selfish grab for an expected prominence, hoping to bring a gravy train full of free dinners, trips etc. for themselves. What they did was to expose the joke perpetrated by the Democratic Party about voter disenfranchisement and voter fraud, and thetrue colors...the Dem Party "Superdelagate" system came to light...i.e., to quote Orwell..."All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others". Fascinating that you keep knocking the Dems for their superdelegates without talking about the Republican ones. And even still, the political parties are PRIVATE entities. As such, they can make the rules however they damned well please. I would have thought a hard-core Republican supporter could appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Fascinating that you keep knocking the Dems for their superdelegates without talking about the Republican ones. And even still, the political parties are PRIVATE entities. As such, they can make the rules however they damned well please. I would have thought a hard-core Republican supporter could appreciate that. In the eyes of either party - if you don't own a pharmaceutical company, you don't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 It's a fact more people have voted for Hillary than Obama. Not any more. What's your next argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Not any more. What's your next argument? Can we just call Hilliary "Worthless White B word"? or WWB for short? That would make it more fun to type posts about her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Not any more. What's your next argument? Same argument, not everyone has voted yet. Count every vote, and let every vote count. Let's see the totals after West Virginia, Kentucky, and Puerto Rico. Nobody has 2025 delegates, so the race goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 "Operation Chaos " is working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 "Operation Chaos " is working! From Limbaugh's mouth to Wacka's posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Same argument, not everyone has voted yet. Count every vote, and let every vote count. Let's see the totals after West Virginia, Kentucky, and Puerto Rico. Nobody has 2025 delegates, so the race goes on. Oh wait...now you're back to wanting the delegate to decide?? According to those projections, Obama lead is only going to increase over the remaining contests. So if Obama wins the popular vote and the majority of the pledged delegates but WWB* steals his nomination via the super delegates, will you still be talking about 'counting every vote'? Can we just call Hilliary "Worthless White B word"? or WWB for short? * Capital idea Sketch. Putting into effect immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Oh wait...now you're back to wanting the delegate to decide?? According to those projections, Obama lead is only going to increase over the remaining contests. So if Obama wins the popular vote and the majority of the pledged delegates but WWB* steals his nomination via the super delegates, will you still be talking about 'counting every vote'? First, the phrase "steal his nomination" is thrown around by Obama supporters and is false. You can't steal what someone never had. And if he has the nomination after the delegates are counted at the convention and he reached 2025 then it's over and it can't be stolen. The superdelegates are part of the nomination process, and can vote based on whatever criteria they choose. So count all the popular votes, and then the superdelegates can support whoever they think has the best chance of retaining and increasing those popular votes in order to win the electoral college, especially in swing states. Who they can get in Ohio or Florida is much more important than who they can get in Utah or South Carolina. But it's up to the superdelegates to use their own criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Can we just call Hilliary "Worthless White B word"? or WWB for short? That would make it more fun to type posts about her. Once again a woman gets referred to in derogatory sexist terms, but imagine the uproar if someone referred to Obama as a "WBN" (I won't spell it out for you because it's just as bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 First, the phrase "steal his nomination" is thrown around by Obama supporters and is false. You can't steal what someone never had. And if he has the nomination after the delegates are counted at the convention and he reached 2025 then it's over and it can't be stolen. The superdelegates are part of the nomination process, and can vote based on whatever criteria they choose. So count all the popular votes, and then the superdelegates can support whoever they think has the best chance of retaining and increasing those popular votes in order to win the electoral college, especially in swing states. Who they can get in Ohio or Florida is much more important than who they can get in Utah or South Carolina. But it's up to the superdelegates to use their own criteria. Just like your favorite candidate, there will come a point where you will either admit to reality or find a windmill. But, thanks for the comic relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 windmills ftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Just like your favorite candidate, there will come a point where you will either admit to reality or find a windmill. But, thanks for the comic relief. I realize it's improbable, but not impossible. So until he gets to 2025 or she concedes, I'll continue to support her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 The thing is, come November, it doesn't matter whose names are on the ballot. We're already screwed. You've got 3 people that are all the same running for the same position claiming that they are all different. Vote for Hillary, she's got experience, and isn't Bush Vote for Obama, he's new and different, and isn't Bush Vote for McCain, he's a Republican, and isn't Bush None of them have any plans that will actually help anything. None of them would even be able to get their plans enacted because there is still a Congress None of them will unite America None of them will unite the world None of them will fix Iraq/Afghanistan None of them will fix health care None of them will fix China/Iran/N Korea/Russia... None of them will fix the environment None of them will fix the US Dollar At best some of them might provide band aids that could temporarily ease a symptom of one of those problems. So I guess the best way is to choose whose band aids you like the best. I prefer the painless ones with a superhero on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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