Mile High Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Question not about this article: If Detroit wins The President's Cup and then they don't make it to the championship game and are eliminated early. How is home ice determined? Is it points or wins and how is a tie breaker determined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 The problem is, if you let them go without getting atleast a prelimenary deal in place now, it will only put them one step closer to becoming FA. Once the seasons is over and if Buffalo wins the cup, it will be mid June, with july 1 only weeks away, why wouldn't both of them hold off signing a deal until they see whats available. Whats the rush to sign a new contract for them? They might as well see what they are worth around the league. its not like Buffalo is making it a priority to keep either of them (if it was a priority, both would be having new contracts written up) Their agents should be fired if either is allowed to sign a deal before atleast testing the market, unless Buffalo pays league max for either of them. You let either test the market, and they are as good as gone I'm not certain what you mean by "let them go"? As for your question, why wouldn't they hold off on signing today for the same reasons; they are less than 90 days from becoming UFA's? The Sabres couldn't work out a reasonable deal with Briere prior to his arbitration decision, the same 2 individuals are still conducting the negotiations as agents for the same principals; I can't say I'm overly surprised that Danny has not been signed to date. Right now, the players hold far more cards than the Sabres do, and it will cost a premium to get either (or both) signed prior to 7/1. I've already stated that I would very much like to have seen the Sabres reach a deal with Drury last off-season (and last off-season I stated in FAR too much detail over on SDS's other board why signing a guy 1 year from becoming a UFA should be significantly cheaper than signing him just before he becomes a UFA) and I wouldn't be surprised if the dynamic of possibly alienating one or the other was the reason they've only apparently had cursory discussions with both since the calendar flipped. I don't agree that the Sabres would have to hit the max to keep the players out of FA (well, they wouldn't have to do that for Chris, they probably wouldn't have to do it for Danny but I'm not as certain about that), the players and agents have an expectation of what they will be worth on the open market; if the Sabres exceed that by enough and they like their current situation, they'll sign. (Heck, if they REALLY like it here, maybe just meeting the expected max salary would work.) Also, I think Drury could still be signed on/after 7/1; I'm positive that the conversations the Sabres have had with him and his agent have expressed how much they want him to remain the Captain and remind him that they have considered him the cornerstone of the franchise since they sent Warrener and Reinprecht out to Calgary. I am nowhere near as certain that Danny can be re-signed; primarily because I can very readily see a scenario where someone will give him $7MM+ for 3-4 years and the Sabres won't (or can't) be willing to match that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Question not about this article: If Detroit wins The President's Cup and then they don't make it to the championship game and are eliminated early. How is home ice determined? Is it points or wins and how is a tie breaker determined? It starts out with points. In a tie, they'd use the normal tiebreakers (where they are applicable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 It starts out with points. In a tie, they'd use the normal tiebreakers (where they are applicable). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I'm not certain what you mean by "let them go"? As for your question, why wouldn't they hold off on signing today for the same reasons; they are less than 90 days from becoming UFA's? The Sabres couldn't work out a reasonable deal with Briere prior to his arbitration decision, the same 2 individuals are still conducting the negotiations as agents for the same principals; I can't say I'm overly surprised that Danny has not been signed to date. Right now, the players hold far more cards than the Sabres do, and it will cost a premium to get either (or both) signed prior to 7/1. I've already stated that I would very much like to have seen the Sabres reach a deal with Drury last off-season (and last off-season I stated in FAR too much detail over on SDS's other board why signing a guy 1 year from becoming a UFA should be significantly cheaper than signing him just before he becomes a UFA) and I wouldn't be surprised if the dynamic of possibly alienating one or the other was the reason they've only apparently had cursory discussions with both since the calendar flipped. I don't agree that the Sabres would have to hit the max to keep the players out of FA (well, they wouldn't have to do that for Chris, they probably wouldn't have to do it for Danny but I'm not as certain about that), the players and agents have an expectation of what they will be worth on the open market; if the Sabres exceed that by enough and they like their current situation, they'll sign. (Heck, if they REALLY like it here, maybe just meeting the expected max salary would work.) Also, I think Drury could still be signed on/after 7/1; I'm positive that the conversations the Sabres have had with him and his agent have expressed how much they want him to remain the Captain and remind him that they have considered him the cornerstone of the franchise since they sent Warrener and Reinprecht out to Calgary. I am nowhere near as certain that Danny can be re-signed; primarily because I can very readily see a scenario where someone will give him $7MM+ for 3-4 years and the Sabres won't (or can't) be willing to match that. Sorry, basically what I meant was that if you let them go through the playoffs and put off on contract talks until the offseason And I am assuming you are speculating on the Sabres having these discussions with Drury about wanting to keep him (over briere) and him being the cornerstone of the franchise since last I heard, Darcy has only had one discussion with him since he has been able to negotiate. And sorry, but I completly disagree that if you let either test the FA market, they still have a chance coming back. I see it being a Jay McKee situation all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 And sorry, but I completly disagree that if you let either test the FA market, they still have a chance coming back. I see it being a Jay McKee situation all over again I sure wish we had him for the eight games he was healthy this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Sorry, basically what I meant was that if you let them go through the playoffs and put off on contract talks until the offseason And I am assuming you are speculating on the Sabres having these discussions with Drury about wanting to keep him (over briere) and him being the cornerstone of the franchise since last I heard, Darcy has only had one discussion with him since he has been able to negotiate. And sorry, but I completly disagree that if you let either test the FA market, they still have a chance coming back. I see it being a Jay McKee situation all over again If that is the case, it appears you are saying that each will definitely receive an offer the Sabres can't match or can't come close enough to for the "hometown discount". If that isn't what you mean, please clarify. If that is what you mean, then why would either one sign at this time as they must know, or at least believe, someone else will beat the Sabres offer (should one, hypothetically, get put on the table today)? IF they are automatically gone on 7/1, then they should be as good as gone today, unfortunately. And I don't believe they are good as gone today (definitely not Drury, maybe not Danny). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 If both Drury and Briere accept offers from other teams, we are still looking at: Lindy Ruff Ryan Miller All seven of the current defensemen, with Paestch probably moving into the top-6 assuming Numminen retires (after winning the Cup, wink wink) plus.... Roy Vanek Stafford Max Connolly Kotalik Gaustad Pominville Hecht Paille Zubrus maybe Mair MacArthur Peters Ryan And depending on the cap, close to $10M of money to play with. You would struggle to find one team in the NHL who wouldn't take that package right now. Add in either Briere or Drury, and wow....Losing one or both would certainly be a hit to the scoresheet and probably more so to the locker room, but damn if this team isn't well-positioned to remain a force. You will NOT see that roster miss the playoffs next year, a la Carolina this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOUTBOX MONSTER! Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 If both Drury and Briere accept offers from other teams, we are still looking at: Lindy Ruff Ryan Miller All seven of the current defensemen, with Paestch probably moving into the top-6 assuming Numminen retires (after winning the Cup, wink wink) plus.... Roy Vanek Stafford Max Connolly Kotalik Gaustad Pominville Hecht Paille Zubrus maybe Mair MacArthur Peters Ryan And depending on the cap, close to $10M of money to play with. You would struggle to find one team in the NHL who wouldn't take that package right now. Add in either Briere or Drury, and wow....Losing one or both would certainly be a hit to the scoresheet and probably more so to the locker room, but damn if this team isn't well-positioned to remain a force. You will NOT see that roster miss the playoffs next year, a la Carolina this year. Ryan and Mair are both UFA's as well. Plus, Vanek, Roy, Paille, Paestch, and Peters are RFA's and will need tenders or long-term deals. Basically, the future does look bright still, but they won't have much money to play with after taking care of the RFA's and any UFA's they decide to keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 If both Drury and Briere accept offers from other teams, we are still looking at: Lindy Ruff Ryan Miller All seven of the current defensemen, with Paestch probably moving into the top-6 assuming Numminen retires (after winning the Cup, wink wink) plus.... Roy Vanek Stafford Max Connolly Kotalik Gaustad Pominville Hecht Paille Zubrus maybe Mair MacArthur Peters Ryan And depending on the cap, close to $10M of money to play with. You would struggle to find one team in the NHL who wouldn't take that package right now. Add in either Briere or Drury, and wow....Losing one or both would certainly be a hit to the scoresheet and probably more so to the locker room, but damn if this team isn't well-positioned to remain a force. You will NOT see that roster miss the playoffs next year, a la Carolina this year. Without Drury and Briere, I wouldn't make a comment like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 If that is the case, it appears you are saying that each will definitely receive an offer the Sabres can't match or can't come close enough to for the "hometown discount". If that isn't what you mean, please clarify. If that is what you mean, then why would either one sign at this time as they must know, or at least believe, someone else will beat the Sabres offer (should one, hypothetically, get put on the table today)? IF they are automatically gone on 7/1, then they should be as good as gone today, unfortunately. And I don't believe they are good as gone today (definitely not Drury, maybe not Danny). Sorry, I posted that really quickly inbetween doing some other stuff at work, in a nut shell I said that if they get to test the FA market, they won't be coming back to Buffalo, because someone will overpay for them. Why would they sign something now rather then wait til they can enter FA, mostly to get this off their minds/shoulders before the playoffs and they have the security of knowing they will be staying in Buffalo. Also, they now have the security of kowing that if something happens in the playoffs, they have a contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 Without Drury and Briere, I wouldn't make a comment like that I just did. Look at that roster...Solid goaltending, tight defense, and plenty of offense. Are Drury and Briere absolutely huge for this team? Of course. And I'm not saying they'd be just fine without them. However, they also wouldn't fall to #9 in the conference. That roster above without Drury and Briere might not win the division, but they'd be in the hunt...You're nuts if you don't think so...Plus you have to assume that some type of move would be made with the money that is freed up if they both leave... A healthy Connolly, a healthy Max, year 3 of Vanek, year 3 of Pominville, and year 2 of Stafford makes me think the offense is in good hands....Add to that a few ~20 goal scorers like Hecht and Roy and Kotalik, they'll be alright. Also...Lindy Ruff will be around.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I just did. Look at that roster...Solid goaltending, tight defense, and plenty of offense. Are Drury and Briere absolutely huge for this team? Of course. And I'm not saying they'd be just fine without them. However, they also wouldn't fall to #9 in the conference. That roster above without Drury and Briere might not win the division, but they'd be in the hunt...You're nuts if you don't think so...Plus you have to assume that some type of move would be made with the money that is freed up if they both leave... A healthy Connolly, a healthy Max, year 3 of Vanek, year 3 of Pominville, and year 2 of Stafford makes me think the offense is in good hands....Add to that a few ~20 goal scorers like Hecht and Roy and Kotalik, they'll be alright. Also...Lindy Ruff will be around.... What did Carolina lose that moved them from competing for the East lead and not making the playoffs. This team loses alot by losing Drury and Briere Also the defence is the main weakness of the team, and a spot that needs some definite upgrading I'm not saying they definitly won't make the playoffs if they lose both, but I'm not going to say they don't end up like the 'Canes and miss the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I sure wish we had him for the eight games he was healthy this season. Am I the only one who never thought losing McKee was that big a deal? He was injured an awful lot, and was just as capable as making a "rory fitz" play as anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Sorry, I posted that really quickly inbetween doing some other stuff at work, in a nut shell I said that if they get to test the FA market, they won't be coming back to Buffalo, because someone will overpay for them. Why would they sign something now rather then wait til they can enter FA, mostly to get this off their minds/shoulders before the playoffs and they have the security of knowing they will be staying in Buffalo. Also, they now have the security of kowing that if something happens in the playoffs, they have a contract And if they KNOW someone will overpay for them, it becomes in their best interest to hold off on signing unless the Sabres overpay for them now. 1 year out on their deal, they have an entire season of uncertainty that could factor into their willingness to sign an extension. Again, I am very disappointed that the Sabres didn't get something worked out this past off-season. At this point in time, the only uncertainty they have left is the possibility of getting injured. And the odds of getting injured badly enough to affect their next contract at this point are far less than they were in August (in Chris' case) and less than they were in January (in Danny's case). The security of knowing they'll be staying in Buffalo is something that they can experience today, June 25, July 1, or really anytime prior to signing a deal with someone else; just sign with the Sabres and they have their security. I'm not saying they wouldn't sign now (I actually believe a deal could be worked out for 1 or possibly both at this time AND could also be worked out after the playoffs), but am curious, how much of a premium ($'s) do you think that piece of mind is worth to the players today. You've stated that either would only take an offer of $8.8MM/year to stay (I'm assuming that you're assuming they'd want 4 year deals in that scenario, but don't know that for certain) if the offer was received on June 22. What do you think the Sabres need to offer today to get them to sign? I'm not actually certain why we're arguing. We both would like to see both guys signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 What did Carolina lose that moved them from competing for the East lead and not making the playoffs. This team loses alot by losing Drury and Briere Also the defence is the main weakness of the team, and a spot that needs some definite upgrading I'm not saying they definitly won't make the playoffs if they lose both, but I'm not going to say they don't end up like the 'Canes and miss the playoffs. Apus, not necessarily disagreeing with you, just answering your question. What Carolina lost from last year to this year: Desire (they weren't hungry this year), Recchi, Ward (Aaron), Weight, Cullen, Gerber, the ability to sneak up on other teams, Stillman for a large part of the season, Kaberle for a large part of the season, a total of over 300 man games to injury and many of those were on D (gee, what playoff team from last year does THAT remind me of ) (they did lose a lot in the regular season last year as well, but they had cap room to make up for it and in the entire playoffs lost exactly 1 player to injury and he was replaced by Cole), and a great big horseshoe that was lodged in Gerber's or Ward's pants. The Sabres lose a TON of leadership if they lose both Drury and Briere. You will get absolutely no argument about that. They absolutely get reduced to darkhorse candidate to win the SC next year if they lose those 2. This team is young and maturing and most of the players will be better next year than this year simply due to maturation and experience. They are approaching their primes. This team won a lot of games without Briere last year, I think they'd still win enough to make the playoffs without him and Chris. They've dealt with much injury adversity during the past 2 seasons, so they likely wouldn't take as much of a downturn because of injuries as the Canes did. And having won once will lower their intensity slightly, but I don't think they play terribly far over their heads now, so I don't think that would have as big an effect on them either. I don't see them missing the playoffs, but I wouldn't say they are a lock (I'd say 95% lock). I will also agree with you that the Sabres primary strenghts are in net and at forward. But to say the defense is a weakness is a bit of an exaggeration, IMHO. I think the Sabres D is one of the top 5 in the league (top 10 minimum). They are fast, move the puck well, have size (although most of them don't use it), kill penalties well (when Hank is in the lineup), and still block a fair amount of shots even without McKee. Unless they can't sign Teppo, I don't see any changes on D next year. There will definitely be changes on forward (it's a question of who); I guess we agree on that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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